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The Elder Scrolls Online

I think to succeed as an MMO in this day and age you need to either:

1) Do F2P

2) Do a one-time payment like Guild Wars 2

3) Make the game blow WoW out of the water (somehow)
 
Stiler said:
You will not be able to keep the sub model, apart from WoW and Eve online virtually any m mo that has even TRIED the sub model has had to shift to f2p after 6'ish months or so.

Aion
Tera
Star WArs: TOR
The Secret World
AGe of Conan
etc.
Click to expand...

Aion - Asian
Tera - Asian
SWTOR - Played like a single player game
And.....
FUNCOM

I was talking to my buddy about MMO hopping the other day, and what it boiled down to me was this strange feeling of not giving a new MMO a "real" chance or a real investment in fear that all my invested time would turn out to be a waste when the game either went f2p, servermerged, or shut down completely. Employees get laid off, support for the game gets gutted. Then the plan of "lets try and make this f2p and still make some money" idea gets tossed around and then it becomes total life support from then on out.

I think it can work "if" they deliver the lasting experience I think people are looking for.

Meridian59>UO>EQ>Shadowbane>WoW>WarhammerOnline>EQ2>LOTRO>FallenEarth>AoC>RIFT>SWTOR>GW2>FF:ARR>AION>TERA>Darkfall

$15/month is nothing compared to all the box prices Ive paid in the past for these MMO's

This is my last hurrah, so Im biased in a way.
 
Remember this is sold on consoles. They are willing to spend money on anything. :)
 
cageymaru said:
Remember this is sold on consoles. They are willing to spend money on anything. :)
Click to expand...

Yea, mmos are pretty new to consoles and considering how well Skyrim did on that platform, I wouldn't be surprised if eso does well. At least on consoles.
 
FTP?

They don't have to beat WoW to have subs. They just have to make a great game that people want to sub. If you're going to make a shitty game like most mentioned in this thread, than yes, you need to go FTP.
 
Here's the thing though for one of the many reasons why World of Warcraft succeeded and got so popular:
It had an established universe and lore behind the characters, story, and world that set up the Warcraft setting for World of Warcraft.​
They built up an established fanbase that spans decades. This is something not even Meridian, Ultima Online or Everquest had in the nascent days of MMORPGs.
To beat World of Warcraft means standing toe-to-toe with it, beginning with an established franchise, universe, and storyline that links up together. There were millions of fans of the Warcraft series by the time World of Warcraft launched. It gained more throughout its early days as an MMO up until its peak popularity, which happens in just about any MMO these days now.

If you ask why Star Wars did not live up to this especially for SW Galaxies or SW The Old Republic, it'll boil down to one word: Execution.

In other words, how did the developers of those SW MMOs executed the storyline of a well-established universe? How did they implement the characters, gameplay, and setting?

And, you can get even more complicated by delving into the stories that came out after the Original Trilogy was released in theatres, and EU (Expanded Universe) that came out of that. Warcraft began as computer games from the very early days of computer gaming. MMORPGs started maybe early 90s beginning with Meridian 59 in 1995, a year after Warcraft Orcs and Heroes was released. That was the same year as Elder Scrolls Arena was released, 1994 as well.

Two computer games, two very well established franchises over many decades. Star Wars MMOs were built out of three movies and novels that ventured into EU territory. By the way, there is now a group within Disney to scrap a good portion of the EU stories and relying solely on stories based on Original Trilogy going forward. This is to keep the Star Wars stories that came after that canon and true to the original. So, expect a lot of literature, characters, and events be thrown out that did not meet that.

But, back on topic, why hasn't The Old Republic succeeded where Galaxies has before it unexpectedly ended? It had a good storyline, it was well executed and well implemented of the Star Wars story. And, after listening and reading about many reactions of SWG fans, they would have preferred Galaxies over The Old Republic. However, SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) has goofed up somewhere along the way with Galaxies, and I'm sure those that played it here know about them. Execution failed towards the end, and we can see of this happening in World of Warcraft now. I'm seeing it in Final Fantasy XI, and have seen it in Final Fantasy XIV v1.0.

Companies make mistakes, and many times dire ones that offend the fanbase. Every gaming fan of established franchises know this too well. SWTOR development was handed over to a company that had little experience with online gaming. They started off as LAN games with Baldur's Gate and had many single-player games and storyline that came after that. This success in their early games reflected in SWTOR as becoming its single failure. You can read the various complaints about SWTOR just about anywhere and it will all boil down to these words: "the best online single player game ever developed." Not only did it have very little content and poor execution of world servers at the start of SWTOR, the storyline and gameplay felt very single-player. There were little interaction or involvment between players with the story. You really felt like you were playing "The Old Republic", the single player game. Final Fantasy XI was a very social game from the start since you were pretty much grouped up together to do story missions and quests together, and to level together. SWTOR? No, you can pretty much solo your way to the top if you wanted.

It seems to be an ongoing trend nowadays with MMORPGs: Solo leveling and moving away from group-based activity until endgame. FFXIV ARR v2.0 is a reflection of this. FFXI post-Seekers of Adoulin is a reflection of this. Many F2P MMOs from Korea is also a sign of this. World of Warcraft shows this somewhat given that you can pretty much get capped level within a month if you grind at it.

For Elder Scrolls Online to succeed or fail, it can only follow in the footsteps of two developers: Blizzard or Bioware. We're talking about two companies that with established storylines and universes, and an established fanbase.

To follow Bioware, ESO becomes Star Wars The Old Republic-- very single player-like storyline, little PvP established at the start, too many world servers, lack of content.

To follow Blizzard, ESO becomes World of Warcraft-- an interesting and established lore weaved into its story missions, some PvP at the start, little world servers, a lot more content.

However, we're talking about Zenimax Studios and its subsidary Zenimax Online and Bethesda here. A company that has specialized in single-player gaming over many years. Do they have what it takes to make an online game?

If ESO is to succeed as a subscription-based MMO, it needs to look at World of Warcraft as lessons learned, not inspiration. It has to know how to execute the well-established Elder Scrolls storyline and lore behind it, and bring the millions of fans into it like WoW has had done successfully. To fail as an MMO is trying beat WoW at its own game and follow its footsteps as being another WoW game. Many games have failed in this regard and gone F2P-- SWTOR, TERA, and many other MMOs that are very WoW-like in combat, questing and missions were poorly executed and ended up being nothing more than WoW clones with some unlike SWTOR had little story and lore behind it.

ESO and its developers Zenimax Online Studios needs to know it cannot mimic World of Warcraft every step of the way or it'll end up in failure. It cannot rely on its single-player heritage of games to do this either. An MMORPG means involving players from both its fanbase and those outside of it to play together. It has to execute a storyline within ESO that will satisfy its fanbase and draw new players into it. It needs to execute a gameplay from combat to crafting to grouping up together and even PvP that brings players together and continues to bring them in and pay for the game month-to-month. It needs to look at WoW and see what worked and what it didn't and follow its own path divergent from WoW.

No one or not many want to play or see another World of Warcraft clone on the MMO market nowadays. Many want something new and fresh to MMOs. Everquest NEXT hopes to do this, ArcheAge hopes to do this. The outliers here are Eve Online and Final Fantasy XI and XIV. Both subscription games and both with no previously established storylines that link the stories together. They are, by and large, stories that are unique to their franchise. Why have they succeeded in this area? Execution. They drew players in with their unique gameplay, their unvierse, their storyline, and while not establishing a playerbase as large as WoW, they did not follow its footsteps in many ways. (However, that's not to say that Square-Enix has done this to Final Fantasy XI and XIV v2.0, which is very reflective of the current gameplay nowadays in both games today.) They drew in players interested in its characters, world, and story-- EVE and FFXIV/XI. And, this draw kept those players paying month-to-month.

ESO needs to learn from that. Do not fail in the execution of this or it'll be another The Old Republic MMO. It has to offer much more than a single-player story wrapped up in MMORPG-guise like SWTOR did, and needs to look at how WoW executed and transitioned from LAN gaming and single-player gaming into converting the franchise into a successful MMORPG. SWTOR did not do that in many ways, and we see how it turned into an F2P game afterwards.

So, what will it take for ESO to succeed to keep players paying for it like players for EVE and FFXI/FFXIV? What will it take for ESO to succeed like World of Warcaft from Blizard and not turn into another SWTOR from Bioware?
  • Do not clone World of Warcraft.
  • Keep the gameplay engaging like EQ, WoW, and FF series, and storyline interesting like FFXI/FFXIV, SWTOR and WoW.
  • Bring in fresh new content regularly like EVE Online has done each year.
  • If there is going to be PvP, establish it at the start unlike SWTOR and FFXI/FFXIV.
  • Most importantly: Involve your fanbase and new players. Keep the game interesting not for the short term, but the long term that will continue to draw them to the game month-to-month.
Do this and I guarantee you ESO can succeed as another subscription MMO. I have already played my fair share of F2P games over many years, and I can tell you that when executed poorly, the game is rather lackluster, and many times pay-to-win in many ways. It also breeds laziness in players and makes them dependent on cash shop items, because they can buy their way to the top through microtransactions and cash shops if they are made available to the players such as EXP boosts and crafting level up boosts and the like. Zenimax Online Studios must not do this. F2P favors those with money that are willing to spend tens of dollars to hundreds of dollars a month through microtransactions. That's way more than one would pay for a regular subscription fee.

Do not turn the game into a grindfest but do not offer ways for players to pay their way to the top. If you are going to offer a subscription-based MMO, be sure all content is all inclusive to the game and made readily available. No DLCs, no microtransactions, and if there are cash shops, let it be purely cosmetic like mounts or pets or the like. For $15 a month, players must be getting their money's worth for that amount. SWTOR and TERA did not do this and we know that all too well and eventually went F2P. FFXI, FFXIV and EVE Online had a lot of things going for it for their subscription fees, and had gameplay and a story that kept drawing in players. For a lot of us, FFXI was the first MMO, while others it was Everquest before it. We paid a subscription fee because the game kept drawing us in-- from the gameplay, to the players, to the storylines, quests and missions. ESO needs to succeed in that area, hence why I said above: Involve the players.

Do not turn this into another Elder Scrolls, the single-player game dressed up as an MMO. And, do not clone WoW in every way such as how quests and missions are done. Look to them as lessons learned, again. If Zenimax Online Studios want this to succeed as their very first MMO, they have to succeed at this and execute well. If they can do that, they will be another successful subscription-based MMO.

If not, expect it to fall in the same footsteps as SWTOR and see it converted to an F2P game a year or two after.

From my own experiences of the closed beta so far, it's already inching towards SWTOR already-- it feels very single player-ish at the start. It needs to involve its players more and bring them together from start to end. The story and lore is there; it's interesting and I liked that, but it needs to do something more than just that to bring players in. If there is going to be PvP, involve it from the start to draw players in. Do not overestimate or underestimate the number of servers you will have available, be sure there are enough players around for them to do things together from start to end. SWTOR suffered in this, and FFXIV ARR v2.0 suffered in this at the start-- one with too many servers, and the latter with too little servers/server capacity. The questing and missions so far feels very much like a single-player Elder Scrolls game, but if it's going to focus on that alone, it's going to fail. Somewhere along the lines, the gameplay must involve getting players together so it doesn't feel like the players are going solo from beginning to end. It needs to have a gameplay that draws the players in each month to play it and play it together or we're going to have a very barren MMO when ESO is released in a few more months. The graphics are decent enough, but, again, the game needs more than that.

Zenimax Online Studios has to execute it well from beginning to end within ESO, and insure that they can draw enough players to come back to it on a monthly basis to continue paying for a subscription fee. And, that subscription fee must be all-inclusive of every content available to them, and not turn into a buy-my-way to the top kind of game. The closed beta so far has shown very little indication of what ESO will be or if it'll succeed, but so far feels too much like SWTOR at the start. It has to fix this. I'd like to be able to group with other players, and not play another single player MMO. It has to have more than just story going for it. It needs to execute its questing and missions to be interesting enough to do them. It has to have gameplay that involves and interests the playerbase.

The only thing we can hope, for now, is that ZOS does not fail here. We definitely do not want another SWTOR or WoW clone, but we want something that respects the Elder Scrolls franchise and is executed very well for us to keep paying for it.

Time will tell, in other words.
 
GOD'SlittleSERVANT said:
Why does that video look better than my last beta test? Hmm
Click to expand...

IMHO the devs have no interest in listening to player feedback. The beta feedback has been overwhelmingly negative from my perspective and they still will release this game with a sub on top of it. This game will go F2P within a year and servers shutdown within a few years.
 
Yeah general concensous is this will either be trash, or not worth the monthly sub.

I wouldn't be suprised if the devs are putting both fingers in their ears, saying "lalalalala" as they watch the money roll in from those subs though.
 
Well now after pretty much making the decision that I won't be playing this, I'm now worried about Bethesda's reputation. They're one of my favorite studios, I hope this doesn't tarnish what they've done. Hopefully most people are smart enough to figure out it isn't Bethesda.

Dishonored, Fallout, Elder Scrolls...awesome games IMO.
 
I don't think Bethesda made this game, its something with a Z. The IP is what ties it to Bethesda and they may be marketing it, but I don't think they wrote any of it.
 
ob1 said:
I don't think Bethesda made this game, its something with a Z. The IP is what ties it to Bethesda and they may be marketing it, but I don't think they wrote any of it.
Click to expand...

I think that's what the dude above you is saying...
 
Ihavetheelderscrolls said:
Well now after pretty much making the decision that I won't be playing this, I'm now worried about Bethesda's reputation. They're one of my favorite studios, I hope this doesn't tarnish what they've done. Hopefully most people are smart enough to figure out it isn't Bethesda.

Dishonored, Fallout, Elder Scrolls...awesome games IMO.
Click to expand...

Dishonored was Arkane Studios which is owned by bethseda. They are working on Prey 2 now IIRC.
 
Zenimax owns Bethesda. Zenimax put together a team to make the MMO, so the "real" Elder Scrolls team didn't touch this one (explains the lore-rape).
 
Yeah, Zenimax Online Studios is in charge of this game entirely. It is their first MMORPG and was formed by their owner Zenimax to develop this.

Bethesda, a Zenimax subsidiary, has little to no input in this to my knowledge unless they have pulled some developers and other assets from Bethesda to co-work on this game together.
 
The Zenimax-Bethesda relationship is like if Activision made a Warcraft game instead of Blizzard.
 
Felt like ESO combat to me. The only difference was the auto hit function of the bow for example. ESO combat has never been anything to write home about.

Each time I have filled out the survey I have waited a couple days. Ironically the category of questions that are more SP geared I have the game better than average or high remarks. Questions that were more MMO based scored low scores. I did enjoy the new crafting system though. However the game that i'm experiencing atm is nothing more than a SWTOR like single player campaign and I was burnt out on that with the first month. The second month was spent earning multiple top tier sets of pvp gear and then I quit a long with my guild. Right now I feel eery similarities between the two titles.
 
I tried the most recent stress test. I'm still not very impressed. But I'll keep trying.. for now.
 
Well i do have to say it's nice that they are at least allowing people who pre purchase the game to be able to play any alliance with any race they wish to.

Never understood why it should be locked any ways.

I wonder if other races can wear the imperial style gear...
 
Stiler said:
Well i do have to say it's nice that they are at least allowing people who pre purchase the game to be able to play any alliance with any race they wish to.

Never understood why it should be locked any ways.

I wonder if other races can wear the imperial style gear...
Click to expand...

Why limit people in the first place to make more preorder numbers? Sounds like a nasty business practice to me.
 
Yeah it should be open (as well as the imperial race) and the fact that people that buy the imperial edition get a 25% faster mount...

Lots of people on the official forums are pretty pissed.
 
Wow those are some steep rewards for pre purchasing an mmo. Such a cash grab they don't even try to hide it.
 
For what it is worth, at least the prices are relatively reasonable. I'd prefer if they were down $10 for both editions (Yes, I've never gotten over it feeling wrong that PC titles don't cost $50 max for standard editions. Honestly though, I do feel that with digital distribution things should be cheaper by another $10 or so...but few hold my views).

In a way, I'm happy that they are including these bonuses for pre-ordering, rather than charging extra for them on a cash shoppe. Seems they are at least keeping their promise of a subscription MMO with no cash shop. Even better, they're selling them digitally. As far as some of the bonuses go, I assume that Imperials will eventually be available to all (or at least, to the "right" faction for them?). I'm a little concerned about the whole "any race, any alliance" thing, purely for lore and PVP reasons, so I wonder if that will truly be a limited perk, or something that will be available to anyone in time. It seems like they've put some effort into the lore for why each race joined the alliance they did, so I don't see them scrapping it entirely. I guess it will kind of be cool to have some exceptions (ie: That particular Dark Elf joined up with the rest of the Elves instead etc.), but for a game focused on 3-way PVP a la DAOC, I just hope the UI is sufficient to show which characters may be on your side, or opposed to you, since it won't be a matter of just looking at the race and saying "Every Kadjit is on my side, every Dark Elf is not".
 
The pre-order deal is rather unfair imho. CE players will have a different rule set for creating characters and some minor tangible benefits to game play. There should be no benefit to game play and all pre-order bonuses should be purely cosmetic to an astounding degree. It is sad when companies do stuff like this. More power to them since gamers have time and time again taken the bait. Zenimax wallets = 1, customers = 0
 
They'll likely roll out any-faction race choices to other players 3months in, but yeah, makes the cash grab all too obvious.
 
Bad sign for ESO, exclusive races are only acceptable in mmo's that are f2p or have no monthly subs. When you pay $15 a month you have a right to all the races in the game.
 
Amaroth said:
The pre-order deal is rather unfair imho. CE players will have a different rule set for creating characters and some minor tangible benefits to game play. There should be no benefit to game play and all pre-order bonuses should be purely cosmetic to an astounding degree. It is sad when companies do stuff like this. More power to them since gamers have time and time again taken the bait. Zenimax wallets = 1, customers = 0
Click to expand...

Oh here we go with the Pay2win crying. Doesn't seem like P2W to me. Relax bro.
 
idk, instead of crying I'm actually just happy they enabled Imperials as playable race. I always play Imperials in Elderscrolls games and I cant say I feel anything except excited for the CE.
 
If anyone is interested greenmangaming has a 20% off cod ethat works on TESO:

Y2OZM7-MJ3VHD-0AVTI1
 
DPI said:
Oh here we go with the Pay2win crying. Doesn't seem like P2W to me. Relax bro.
Click to expand...

It's because the items give you access to non-pure cosmetic items.

An entire race
Ability to play any race in any faction
a "faster" mount then non-CE people get.
Imperial armor
Experience boost

Those aren't really all "cosmetic" only items.
 
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