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The Elder Scrolls Online

Everyone acts like its a single player game with multiplayer intrusions, because it plays like it.
 
Krenum said:
What part of MMO don't you people understand?

Everyone acts like this is a Singleplayer game with muliplayer intrusions. I don't get it, surely you knew what you were signing up for in the first place?
Click to expand...

The question is, why are you defending it so much?

How were people supposed to "know" what they signed up for? It's a beta test that no one other than beta testers have played, with no real gameplay footage other than a trailer that makes it look way more interesting than it is.

The thing about MMOs these days is that the vast majority of them are F2P, and this one is not (yet, anyway). If I'm paying a monthly fee the game had damn well better be something special.
 
Not that I don't mind the game, But how could you not get that impression since EVERY elder scrolls game before this was single player.

Thats why the game sells so damn well....So people were hoping it to be more SP with coop/mmo parts put in.

It's more of a MMO game with elder scrolls parts put in.

Anyway its not that bad. and its VERY VERY VERY early beta!
 
DASHlT said:
Spring could be May...I mean thats 6 months away. Alot can happen in 6 months time.
Click to expand...

Based what I experienced on the game mechanics I'm going to say that won't be possible. To do what's required they would need take the game back to square one and wipe the rest accept the art assets. Even if that 6 months loaded the game with content , its core mechanics are weak , the story line isn't engaging and if 6 months is all they have left that's nothing for an MMO launch. The last 6 months of an MMO does see additional content but most major changes take place internally during the first few years.

I really wanted this game to be something but I also know dramatic changes from a beta to launch rarely happen anymore. Maybe 2 years from now once the game has seen enough updates/tweaks/content we'll get the Elder Scrolls Online experience we expected.
 
I'm curious how many bug tickets everyone has filled out so far? I have submitted 17 so far.
 
Godmachine said:
Based what I experienced on the game mechanics I'm going to say that won't be possible. To do what's required they would need take the game back to square one and wipe the rest accept the art assets. Even if that 6 months loaded the game with content , its core mechanics are weak , the story line isn't engaging and if 6 months is all they have left that's nothing for an MMO launch. The last 6 months of an MMO does see additional content but most major changes take place internally during the first few years.

I really wanted this game to be something but I also know dramatic changes from a beta to launch rarely happen anymore. Maybe 2 years from now once the game has seen enough updates/tweaks/content we'll get the Elder Scrolls Online experience we expected.
Click to expand...

You can tell all this by playing for 1-2 days? I mean don't get me wrong iv been burnt by many MMO launches and lost money. But you can never tell what the final product is going to be.

Everyone is different, but you cant say it will suck after only 1-2 days of playing, specially when things can change.

If core mechanics is your main issue, that means you dont even like the game. I for one think the mechanics just need some tweaking, not a huge overhaul.
 
GoldenTiger said:
It doesn't fail at all but if you only played for 2 seconds to level 3 then like any mmo you won't see much. It is cyrodiil, endgame, hell even non tutorial and intro levels that really are what get the game going. It doesn't even start to pick up until later like any good game really.

Though I see a pattern here on this forum, games with depth are often laughed at in favor of flashy ones until they realize the flashy ones actually suck. Having played eso extensively I am laughing at the comments here pretty much of "oh no, skyrim, non fps gameplay, ermahgosh I didn't feel the best gaming ever in 5 minutes!!" remarks here.

Once it is out a few weeks they'll catch on :). Eso has a lotttttttttt to love not in this 2 day or so stress test, but I won't be talking until the nda is gone. First game I am truly optimistic for in a very long time.
Click to expand...

I cut my teeth on classic MMO's that took more patience, dedication, and skill then anything out there today. They also added more content. UO, Asheron' Call (Thistledown 4 life!), Everquest 1 & 2, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, City of Heroes, SWG, Age Of Conan, SWTOR, WoW through Cata, DCU Online, Secret World, Never Winter Online, Matrix Online. My pedigree is long and established with the MMO genre. In all those games I have been to the end, and then some. ESPECIALLY Asheron's Call. That level grind!

TESO is nothing more but pandering to the fan base. They will sucker a large amount of Elder Scrolls fans by name alone. When you look at the core of this game it simply doesn't have it. It doesn't fit in as an MMO, or a TES game. The only thing they got right was the world design/atmosphere. I also don't need to hide behind an NDA to give my opinion. NON fps gameplay? Serious? You mad bro trolling here? There are serious gamers here that are fans of games that don't usually get played. Someone who has been here as long as you would know that.
 
Amaroth what is your characters name? I want to see how much you have actually played putting aside you only get a few days worth of game play as it is (clearly that is enough time to make full assessments of the "core gameplay" and everything else about the game :rolleyes:).
 
Amaroth said:
I cut my teeth on classic MMO's that took more patience, dedication, and skill then anything out there today. They also added more content. UO, Asheron' Call (Thistledown 4 life!), Everquest 1 & 2, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, City of Heroes, SWG, Age Of Conan, SWTOR, WoW through Cata, DCU Online, Secret World, Never Winter Online, Matrix Online. My pedigree is long and established with the MMO genre. In all those games I have been to the end, and then some. ESPECIALLY Asheron's Call. That level grind!

TESO is nothing more but pandering to the fan base. They will sucker a large amount of Elder Scrolls fans by name alone. When you look at the core of this game it simply doesn't have it. It doesn't fit in as an MMO, or a TES game. The only thing they got right was the world design/atmosphere. I also don't need to hide behind an NDA to give my opinion. NON fps gameplay? Serious? You mad bro trolling here? There are serious gamers here that are fans of games that don't usually get played. Someone who has been here as long as you would know that.
Click to expand...

Yes, I played most of those games too, DAOC in particular for several years and WAR (+ closed beta) for a few, as well as TSW for the first ~8-10 months it was out plus its closed beta. I was also in Rift's "alpha" testing and a good number of others. I have played at a top-end level (and I don't mean endgame, I mean top-end guilds/raids/pvp/rvr/etc.) in every game I've played except GW2 which I couldn't stand but gave around a week of heavy play to try. Now, anyway, with the chest-thumping out of the way since you seemed to feel it was important, I will go to the actual argument.

TESO fits well as both an MMO and TES game but your limited experience with it is nothing to judge by. I'm not going to jeopardize anything for myself or others by explaining why you're so dead wrong here on a public forum like this (nor do I feel any real need to, because time will prove me right). In short though, you're a common forum-goer who disregards anything but a myopic viewpoint based on extremely limited experience. And yes, people were indeed whining here about how projectiles will hit your target once fired inside of the soft-targeting buffer, as though they expected it to be an FPS like Quake where your weapon is hitscan, in an MMO setting.

Had these people spent two minutes watching things like the quakecon livestream (archived now), or any dev videos on youtube, or reading any TESO forums for even a moment, they'd have known it isn't a singleplayer Elder Scrolls game but more of an MMO with Elder Scrolls combined in to an extent. I found quite telling the comment about "I found so many empty chests only to realize other guys were taking my loot!" amazing, as that's a standard MMO thing back to their infancy, being a persistent world where thousands of people exist in. It's very obvious that virtually no one here has spent any time checking out what they're even claiming to be stress-testing (but actually just hopping in for 5 minutes, raging that it isn't their ideal picture of a game, and logging into forums to break nda and whine).

I've been here long enough to know to look past the generic gamer raging ;). If you'd actually ever browsed the forums here regularly you'd know I was a huge proponent of TSW while everyone else snubbed their noses at it, fawning over GW2 only to soon agree it had no longevity, for example.


Thuleman said:
Different people will have different views. To me "beta" means feature complete, all they do now is iron out the bugs and tweak performance. Regardless though, there are some things that remind me of the original Everquest. Static spawns on a timer for example.

Not sure whether you played GW2, but the initial user experience in GW2 was by orders of magnitude better than in EOS. GW2 managed to engage and want you to just do more and go on. I didn't get that feeling in EOS at all.

That's the key really. It's irrelevant whether the game gets good after 80 hours into it. If it doesn't keep the users interest in the first few hours then it's over.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what "beta" means to you or me as a player, with all due respect. What matters is their testing needs, and they explicitly have said it's just a stress test and the game is under heavy development still. I can tell you the game is not feature-complete yet nor is it slated to be for some time still. Unfortunately the definition of "alpha", "beta", etc. in gaming circles has been butchered and mutilated to where everyone has an "opinion" of what is an actual game development term with a set meaning for any individual development team.

I did play GW2 and found it boring as all hell right off the bat. It felt like everything I'd already played for years before, done poorly and pandered to the minimum difficulty possible, for PVE and questing. Lacking defined roles made dungeons complete messes as mobs bounced everywhere and no one had real responsibility for any given factor in anything but set guild runs (on teamspeak of course). WvWvW was a pale shadow of DAOC's New Frontiers or even Warhammer Online's 2-way battles, which themselves were a much inferior version of DAOC's RvR (in GW2 it suffered from a lack permanency to namelessness/lack of community to being far too small a territory to the downed mechanic to many other things).

ESO on the other hand grabbed me pretty quickly but is truly good at later levels. The game's still several months from launch with its calendar Spring 2014 launch window (March through end of June) and improving very much with every build. Like Wildstar's beta, this is an actual "real beta" and not a marketing demo. The game is being built on steadily right now.

--

I'll call it now, as I said before, barring any launch catastrophe this game is going to have a long, enjoyable lifespan rather than burning bright for a week at launch and then going dark.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Yes, I played most of those games too, DAOC in particular for several years and WAR (+ closed beta) for a few, as well as TSW for the first ~8-10 months it was out plus its closed beta. I was also in Rift's "alpha" testing and a good number of others. I have played at a top-end level (and I don't mean endgame, I mean top-end guilds/raids/pvp/rvr/etc.) in every game I've played except GW2 which I couldn't stand but gave around a week of heavy play to try. Now, anyway, with the chest-thumping out of the way since you seemed to feel it was important, I will go to the actual argument.

TESO fits well as both an MMO and TES game but your limited experience with it is nothing to judge by. I'm not going to jeopardize anything for myself or others by explaining why you're so dead wrong here on a public forum like this (nor do I feel any real need to, because time will prove me right). In short though, you're a common forum-goer who disregards anything but a myopic viewpoint based on extremely limited experience. And yes, people were indeed whining here about how projectiles will hit your target once fired inside of the soft-targeting buffer, as though they expected it to be an FPS like Quake where your weapon is hitscan, in an MMO setting.

Had these people spent two minutes watching things like the quakecon livestream (archived now), or any dev videos on youtube, or reading any TESO forums for even a moment, they'd have known it isn't a singleplayer Elder Scrolls game but more of an MMO with Elder Scrolls combined in to an extent. I found quite telling the comment about "I found so many empty chests only to realize other guys were taking my loot!" amazing, as that's a standard MMO thing back to their infancy, being a persistent world where thousands of people exist in. It's very obvious that virtually no one here has spent any time checking out what they're even claiming to be stress-testing (but actually just hopping in for 5 minutes, raging that it isn't their ideal picture of a game, and logging into forums to break nda and whine).

I've been here long enough to know to look past the generic gamer raging ;). If you'd actually ever browsed the forums here regularly you'd know I was a huge proponent of TSW while everyone else snubbed their noses at it, fawning over GW2 only to soon agree it had no longevity, for example.




It doesn't matter what "beta" means to you or me as a player, with all due respect. What matters is their testing needs, and they explicitly have said it's just a stress test and the game is under heavy development still. I can tell you the game is not feature-complete yet nor is it slated to be for some time still. Unfortunately the definition of "alpha", "beta", etc. in gaming circles has been butchered and mutilated to where everyone has an "opinion" of what is an actual game development term with a set meaning for any individual development team.

I did play GW2 and found it boring as all hell right off the bat. It felt like everything I'd already played for years before, done poorly and pandered to the minimum difficulty possible, for PVE and questing. Lacking defined roles made dungeons complete messes as mobs bounced everywhere and no one had real responsibility for any given factor in anything but set guild runs (on teamspeak of course). WvWvW was a pale shadow of DAOC's New Frontiers or even Warhammer Online's 2-way battles, which themselves were a much inferior version of DAOC's RvR (in GW2 it suffered from a lack permanency to namelessness/lack of community to being far too small a territory to the downed mechanic to many other things).

ESO on the other hand grabbed me pretty quickly but is truly good at later levels. The game's still several months from launch with its calendar Spring 2014 launch window (March through end of June) and improving very much with every build. Like Wildstar's beta, this is an actual "real beta" and not a marketing demo. The game is being built on steadily right now.

--

I'll call it now, as I said before, barring any launch catastrophe this game is going to have a long, enjoyable lifespan rather than burning bright for a week at launch and then going dark.
Click to expand...

So the game isnt really an Elder Scrolls game, it is more of a generic MMO styled after Elder Scrolls. So why should anyone that likes the Elder Scroll games be happy with this?

Out of curiosity, haven't you said the same things about other MMO's that have basically failed or is that someone else?
 
You guys are free to like the game, but don't talk down to those of us who don't, like we don't know what an MMO is or something.
 
ob1 said:
I'm curious how many bug tickets everyone has filled out so far? I have submitted 17 so far.
Click to expand...

I made three attempts to log into the game, and not once did it work. It kept timing out loading after the character select.

Baleeted.
 
DASHlT said:
You can tell all this by playing for 1-2 days? I mean don't get me wrong iv been burnt by many MMO launches and lost money. But you can never tell what the final product is going to be.

Everyone is different, but you cant say it will suck after only 1-2 days of playing, specially when things can change.

If core mechanics is your main issue, that means you dont even like the game. I for one think the mechanics just need some tweaking, not a huge overhaul.
Click to expand...

I've been playing MMO games since Everquest and trust me I've beta tested probably dozens at this point. I've also invested over 15,000 hours (not joking) playing WoW and I can , even at this early in development tell you that this MMO version of ES will not be that good. If it was free to play then I would say go ahead and try it but it's already confirmed to be $15 a month just like WoW.

I've played enough of this genre that despite the early nature of its development it just doesn't even remotely feel like an Elder Scrolls experience even. It feels like a shell of a cookie cutter MMO splashed with the name "Elder Scrolls" on it.

Regardless if it's fair or not to judge an MMO before its launch its impossible not to take away an impression of .. good or bad.

But if you guys feel that we are making early judgement calls then by all means spend $60 when it releases and find out for yourselves. That's the great thing about having an opinion (well great and bad) as we all have them.
 
Godmachine
Honestly i think this game has potential as MMO
BUT the biggest problem we have so far is that this game is called TESO
and it fails really hard on bringing TES experience
 
What the hell am I missing in the lock picking? Do I keep holding when it jiggles or do I click a button?!
 
@GoldenTiger

I know what a MMO is. I'm not dumb. I know others loot things. I expected in an Elder Scrolls game that loot would be instanced unless in a party. Does it really make sense to see 100 treasure chests at the start all opened? Was I in Ali Baba's tomb? Is this game about you being the badass or just one of 20,000 generic badasses?

Game play doesn't fit the title of the game. Too large of a stretch of the imagination. Just doesn't fit my expectations.

Sorry, I disagree with you on this game.
 
This late in development I can't imagine major elements of the game being changed. If it's delayed, maybe. Otherwise, this stage of beta is for tuning and bug fixing. Tuning means tuning existing mechanics, not gutting it and starting over.
 
Godmachine said:
I've been playing MMO games since Everquest and trust me I've beta tested probably dozens at this point. I've also invested over 15,000 hours (not joking) playing WoW and I can , even at this early in development tell you that this MMO version of ES will not be that good. If it was free to play then I would say go ahead and try it but it's already confirmed to be $15 a month just like WoW.

I've played enough of this genre that despite the early nature of its development it just doesn't even remotely feel like an Elder Scrolls experience even. It feels like a shell of a cookie cutter MMO splashed with the name "Elder Scrolls" on it.

Regardless if it's fair or not to judge an MMO before its launch its impossible not to take away an impression of .. good or bad.

But if you guys feel that we are making early judgement calls then by all means spend $60 when it releases and find out for yourselves. That's the great thing about having an opinion (well great and bad) as we all have them.
Click to expand...

I know how ya feel. Been playing MMO's for ages. Shit I had 10k hours in wow...15k is insane LOL.

I dunno after playing a bit more today, I am starting to lean on your point of view.

No EXP for monsters....Ok...The more i played it, the more it seemed like a F2P game with Elder scrolls put on it.

I dunno I will give the next beta try again, but I do not plan to pre-order it thats for sure. I got burnt from SWTOR and FFXIV 1.0. Really don't feel like wasting money again.

If I do waste money it will be trying out the new Wow expansion.
 
@Goldentiger

I stand corrected. My opinion on the game being lackluster and not a TES title is flawed because I can't comprehend what a beta is, and I have no skill. How any of us could have realistic expectations for a storied game franchise such as TES is ridiculous. Now where is my Kool-aid.
 
Amaroth said:
@Goldentiger

I stand corrected. My opinion on the game being lackluster and not a TES title is flawed because I can't comprehend what a beta is, and I have no skill. How any of us could have realistic expectations for a storied game franchise such as TES is ridiculous. Now where is my Kool-aid.
Click to expand...

Stupac said:
Most people on the internet are not this honest. But props
Click to expand...

lol
 
So....that's a pass then? I had an opportunity to play this weekend but I passed in order to get more time in on AC4. Buddy said it was ok, but not sure if he'll play when it's out. Said the game does look nice from a stylistic point of view. Combat was nice too he mentioned.
 
Playing ESO got me in the mood to play a real TES game. So I put like 12 hours into Skyrim this weekend.
 
BiH115 said:
Ain't that the truth, haha. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I wish I wasn't like that, but I am. But the way I look at it is $5 is worth an hour of entertainment. So if I put more than 12 hours of gameplay into a game, I'm getting my monies worth. Unless I spend more than $60 on a game which is never the case. (besides battlefield 4 but I've already put 18 hours into that).
 
GOD'SlittleSERVANT said:
I wish I wasn't like that, but I am. But the way I look at it is $5 is worth an hour of entertainment. So if I put more than 12 hours of gameplay into a game, I'm getting my monies worth. Unless I spend more than $60 on a game which is never the case. (besides battlefield 4 but I've already put 18 hours into that).
Click to expand...

Nah I'm the same way, get excited for an MMO, then I don't really care about it past the initial month or two. I'd still like to get back to FF14 though, I liked that a lot, but there's just so much other shit to do atm than to devote all time to one game...
 
This MMO is going to flop hard. Normally in MMO hype threads like this there is at least a small group of fanboys attempting to prop it up and make the usual defense statements. This thread has like only two of them, and the vast majority are not interested in the game. For the big name slapped on it, this trainwreck is gonna make the TOR developers feel a little less bad.
 
BiH115 said:
So....that's a pass then? I had an opportunity to play this weekend but I passed in order to get more time in on AC4. Buddy said it was ok, but not sure if he'll play when it's out. Said the game does look nice from a stylistic point of view. Combat was nice too he mentioned.
Click to expand...

Just another MMO. Seen one seen them all.
 
I ended up having four toons stuck in game, only had one to make it level 10 and filled out a total of 31 bug tickets. Woot.
 
FordFanboy said:
This MMO is going to flop hard. Normally in MMO hype threads like this there is at least a small group of fanboys attempting to prop it up and make the usual defense statements. This thread has like only two of them, and the vast majority are not interested in the game. For the big name slapped on it, this trainwreck is gonna make the TOR developers feel a little less bad.
Click to expand...

ESO is supposedly releasing on console(s) (PS4?), so it'll have life to it. What would be cool is if you can play on the same servers. MMOs are the few things I would say can be cross platform with little disadvantages.
 
BiH115 said:
Nah I'm the same way, get excited for an MMO, then I don't really care about it past the initial month or two. I'd still like to get back to FF14 though, I liked that a lot, but there's just so much other shit to do atm than to devote all time to one game...
Click to expand...

I'm the opposite, if I go to play an MMO I want one that I'll be in for many months if not a few years hopefully, when doing so. I therefore have a fairly small history of MMO games I've played too much since most of them didn't make the cut past the first week or two with me :eek: . WOW didn't make it, as an example, during Burning Crusade (gear treadmill pve with a hollow easily-manipulated economy and meaningless pvp, for example). There are a lot of gems in the MMO genre but, they don't get huge press since like with FPS or other genres, people tend to discuss the "heavy hitter mainstream" games the most.

TESO isn't something that actually fits that description except for having a major brand name to it, but you'll see many people arguing it does with extremely limited perspective and experience playing it.

FordFanboy said:
This MMO is going to flop hard. Normally in MMO hype threads like this there is at least a small group of fanboys attempting to prop it up and make the usual defense statements. This thread has like only two of them, and the vast majority are not interested in the game. For the big name slapped on it, this trainwreck is gonna make the TOR developers feel a little less bad.
Click to expand...

In other words, "Anyone who agrees with me is the most rational person on Earth, if you like something I don't like then you're a stupid fanboy shill". Riiiiiight :p . You go on living the dream! Oh and by the way... TOR may not be a good long-term game for MMO lovers like myself, but it's still the 2nd-biggest NA/EU subscription game out there, behind WOW. So, rage all you want as a forum warrior ;).

cageymaru said:
Just another MMO. Seen one seen them all.
Click to expand...

I've gotta disagree with you here, as well. Playing TSW and then trying say, WOW, then giving a shot to DAOC, or say Anarchy Online, will make you wonder why they're even called part of the same genre. Just like Counter-Strike is vastly different from COD team deathmatch and Battlefield 3/4/etc.. People are very quick to call anything that has a character with stats a "wow-clone" or "just another mmo". Couldn't be further from the truth. That's also akin to saying Trackmania is virtually the same in gameplay as a hardcore racing simulator... ;). They are, for all intents and purposes, different games entirely. TESO develops its own identity quite well the further in you go and is actually very much not a cookie-cutter "WOW clone" like so many recent games that have failed/done poorly.

_____________________
On a side note, I also am very impressed that so many are developing amazing precognitive perceptions, perhaps even bordering on psychic, to tell how good/bad a game is in a tutorial area under probably a tenth of a percent or lower into a game in a 2-day-and-some-hours testing period. Saying it's a WOW-clone just reinforces how little most people in this thread know what they're talking about....
 
It's ok. It's nothing special, though. Looks good, but it's not really The Elder Scolls. Take the name away, and it's the generic MMO package. I was so hyped for this game, but after playing the beta, I'm disappointed. BUT - I've never been able to get into MMO's. I've played Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest, WoW and TESO. Never made it past the first month. This one didn't excite me to play it past the weekend. I was really hoping that I could get into it, though. If anything could, it'd be this one.

My son, which does like MMO's, thought it was mediocre as well.
 
I liked it. I also liked FFXIV, and Rift, and SWTOR, and LOTRO... and so on and so fourth. Chances are, I'll buy it. Play it for a month and then be done with it.
 
A lot of people feel jaded here or their expectations are way off.

Zenimax has no proven track record. For what they have made and the franchise they have been dealt with, they are doing a reasonable job with it.
 
Butter said:
A lot of people feel jaded here or their expectations are way off.

Zenimax has no proven track record. For what they have made and the franchise they have been dealt with, they are doing a reasonable job with it.
Click to expand...

a good chunk of the team is former Dark Age of Camelot people
and the game feels like it which may or may not be a bad thing
 
Butter said:
A lot of people feel jaded here or their expectations are way off.

Zenimax has no proven track record. For what they have made and the franchise they have been dealt with, they are doing a reasonable job with it.
Click to expand...

Not really.

TES has a HUGE fan base and they could have been smart if they actually bothered to make the mmo focus on the TES style of play.

No "homing" spells/arrows
Freedom to play how you want
Do what you want.

TES is a sandbox, it's not a theme park world with a linear quest path.

It's not a race-based faction game with a theme park world designed to hand hold you from point a to point b with mmo "hotbar" combat.

All Zenimax has done from what I've seen is take the generic run of the mill "mmo formula" and slap TES lore and a skin onto it, it doesn't seem to play like a TEs game at all.

This is EXACTLY what ruined SW:TOR, instead of them making a fun STAR WARS game they simply take the same old boring and tired "mmo" formula and slapped Star Wars onto it.

Meanwhile most people that picture "star wars" picture things like X-wing vs Tie Fighter, Jedi Knight, you know things from the movies and how they are. They do not picture a jedi standing around "auto attacking" a small woodland creature to get exp, that isn't star wars, that isn't fun, it's boring and it's a chore.

There's so much potential in tihe MMO market for people to make FUN games that are FUN to play, rather then focusing on the "Treadmill" formula that has ran mmo's into the ground, the boring loot chase to get uber gearto hit level cap and then wait for the expansion to do it all over and over and over.

People are tired of that, burnt out, even WoW is finally bleeding subscribers now and if you aren't WoW you sure as hell better have something different to attract people, because if it's more of the same why bother? People will stick with WoW if they want that, just ask the graveyard of dead mmo's or those that had to switch to f2p to just survive.
 
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