heatlesssun
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Imagine if the ads weren't there. Ford's site would be right there at the top of the page anyway. Go figure...
So what difference does it make other than provide a way to fund search?
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Thank You Microsoft for Adding ADS
- Thread starter Wrench00
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So what difference does it make other than provide a way to fund search?
And if everyone did that the results would look like this:
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Then your using those apps wrong as that is NOT what I get when I search. You trying to tell us search is useless without ads?
heatlesssun
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No, how does it get paid for. Without ad revenue Google doesn't have significant enough income to do anything. That is one thing that I can understand might upset people about the ads in Bing search in that Microsoft doesn't have the reliance on advertising to pay for its search. But it is getting tougher and tougher to sell software licenses.
prime2515102
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Actually it would look like this:And if everyone did that the results would look like this:
heatlesssun
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Of course. The data centers and hardware and software and power and staff would come from the free search engine fairy. Let's be real here, there has to be a way to pay for search, at least on the scale of something like Google or even Bing, it costs a LOT of money to do this.
You must have a custom version of Firefox, because the first thing I see is a yellow box that says "Ads" in the top left corner and then has a link for to http://www.ford.com/Focus (that'd be a ford focus ad) followed by links to 2 Ford dealerships. If you're not blocking cookies and all google javascript, there's also a link to Ford's Google + page with an enticement to follow them.
Oh at the bottom Google has 2 other ad links: Ford.com and carmax.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=for...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Lemme try that on Bing and see what I get
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ford&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSBR
Green Box that has "Ads" in the top left corner
4 ads within it
- Official Ford® Site | Ford.com
- Ford.Auto-Price-Finder.com
- Ford at CarMax | carmax.com
- Ford Clearance Sale| TheCarConnection.com/Ford
On the right side they have a single text ad for "New Ford Prices - Don't Pay MSRP" which links to a site called Ford.CarPriceSecrets.com
Turning javascript/cookies on adds a block with an enticement to follow Ford on Facebook, as well as 3 or 4 article/blog links with ford topics.
As with Google, there's a small add box at the bottom it has 2 links: 1 to Ford.com and the 2nd to ford.auto-price-finder.com (see the first 2 above).
Sorry, but you either have ad blocking turned on in FF, or you don't recognize ads when you see them.
Arguably there's 1 more ad link on Bing's site ('cause 1 of Google's bottom links is completely new...though technically ford.com/ is different from ford.com/focus), though there's 2 extra links.
There's no real difference. And given that you can turn this off, and presumably someone reading [H] has the ability to do a search on how to do it. My GOD, I'd swear that some here think Google is the benevolent entity and that they give away Android, cus the founders are really nice guys.
That may be, but I did a dozen searches and every one of them pointed to the product, service or store I was searched on. My guess is that MS is going to be pretty careful on the greenbox ads. OTOH, the ads on the right side may point to some knockoff product/service. But I'm just guessing. It's possible that MS and Google don't vet those ads, but my guess is they do. Wait, i did a search on silent PC and it turned up a bunch of computer stores (mostly specializing in silent gear, but one link was for amazon).
MS definitely has more ads on top for Silent PC (Google puts more on the bottom) and MS has several text ads on the right, but Google has 2 ads for newegg.
totally agree, which is why I'd turn it off.
In that case, the only way MS can protect them is if they turn off the internet. Those things pop up on Facebook every day.
So you justify this as Ok because MS is forcing Bing down our throats? Why should consumers subsidize Bing?
There was never a Big Out Cry by consumers WE NEED AN Alternative to Google. Most people don't give a shit about Bing or the Microsoft Search engine failures.
I smell an EU injunction and I guarantee that Microsoft is gone get take to DOJ for this shit.
And if everyone did that the results would look like this:
And whats wrong with this?
Its not our Business to keep any one in Business. A good company will always know how to make money.
So why the fuck should I subsidize Bing and care why it should survive Microsoft makes enough money.
Ur_Mom
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Reputation management... Could be.
I like Windows 8. I like the new features. The majority of this forum disagrees with me. But, I'm not going to defend things that others have problems with. If a lot of people have a problem with something, it's a problem. It doesn't matter if it's logically correct, if people can't use it - it's a problem.
Apple was successful because a 2 year old could pick up an iPad and use it. So could an 80 year old man. Microsoft is attempting to emulate some of that 'ease of use', but it doesn't have it down quite right (it could be the lack of visual cues, things in various places, not too intuitive, I don't know - I haven't done any studies on it). They could with some more work, but it's not there yet.
Ur_Mom
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Facebook, of course. But, if you're getting ads as part of the Microsoft OS and see that, it has more 'trust' than a Facebook ad.
Apps, yes. People are used to ads there. But, if I hit the Start Screen and see ads, or the search, or Control Panel or Computer Management - it's too much. I have to ask - is search results the limit? Or would people be ok with ads on the Start Screen? Desktop?
And if everyone did that the results would look like this:
Whats wrong with this?
I like it.
Why should my payment for an OS subsidize a failure of a search engine that Bing is.
Disposed
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Failure of a search engine? Blind ignorant hate while against a company currently popular to hate is still blind ignorant hate, plain and simple.
Actually use bing. From my experience its results are every bit as good as google with the big exception of no ads, and no creepy google snooping.
But oh yeah, its the in thing to hate microsoft and everything they have and love google who would watch you shower if they could find some trifling convenience to give you so you would allow it blindly.
I did try. Oh did I ever try to use Bing.. People keep insisting oh its as good as google.
Its not. I usually use Search for specific knowledge. You would think that Bing would be good at searching technet.. Its terrible. Natural Language search also blows a bag of dicks.
All I noticed is Microsoft search were more of Buy our shit crap. To top it off Bing has shit for local searches. Looking for "Canadian" resources its about as useful as a Heterosexual guy in a Gay Mens Bar picking up chicks.
I appreciate google because they give their product for free and they want some stupid ads in a web browser. I think that's a fair trade. Bing brings nothing, shit searchers, shit results, and its included in a PAID product.
heatlesssun
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I personally have heard far more complaints about Bing outside of the US, which I've never personally attempted than in. I will concede that Bing doesn't work nearly as well outside of the US as it does in the US.
Now it's time to tell you that you are full of if. You routinely criticize me and others about how big of an enterprise IT expert you are, and then talk about how most Canadian companies have 20 employees and go buy their laptops at Best Buy. Do you really think 20 employees buying laptops at Best Buy is enterprise?
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"I hate Microsoft, I hate Microsoft, I hate Microsoft...." Yeah, we get it, you hate Microsoft.
I use Bing almost exclusively, dropped my gmail account last year and do not log into any google services. (Sorry, but they are not a kind, benevolent Business that only looks out for your good.) Do you have anything good to say? I looked at your posting history for the last 3 years and mostly, it is "I hate Microsoft" posts. So far, no one has been able to show me these instrusive Windows 8.1 ads. Therefore, this is much ado about nothing.
"I hate Microsoft, I hate Microsoft, I hate Microsoft...." Yeah, we get it, you hate Microsoft.
So far, no one has been able to show me these instrusive Windows 8.1 ads. Therefore, this is much ado about nothing.
"I hate Google, I hate Google, I hate Google...." Yeah, we get it, you hate Google. Pot calling the kettle black isn't it? LOL...and MS is a kind benevolent business that is only out to do you good! Your posts tells us all about you as well, which is much to do about nothing but defending MS at every turn like Heatlesssun...
To all the MS defenders here how did this get to be about Bing vs. Google? This is about showing ads when searching our own computers, not about ads on a freaking search engine. I don't need to be connected to the Internet to search my own dam computer and I shouldn't have to turn it OFF because its on by default...you want that kind of adware crap on your pc install Bing or Google desktop...how hard is that?
Let's take a step back here. If you have ever done any programming, think about the gang of four's chain of responsibility pattern; many handlers are linked together in a chain, and requests are passed along that chain until they are handled. If a handler cannot handle the request, it passes it along to the next handler, but if the handler can handle the request, it will, and the request need not make it past that handler if it isn't necessary. In other words, it's fairly easy to develop software which can do any number of things to fulfill a request, yet which action is taken is determined in a hierarchical order.
Now let's look at this search again. Would it be particularly difficult for Microsoft to implement a search integration where the search checks local indexes before it begins searching the web? I don't think it would be, and I happen to already know that local results take precedence over web results. If you're looking for a Ford book on your computer, that will come up first, so you won't need to worry about the ads getting in the way of finding your local content.
The key point here, as you mentioned though, is that they already do that in browser based searches. So that's not really something to hold against the integrated search.
Why? Searching from the integrated search is no different, from a resource consumption perspective than searching from a web browser. All the revenue from your Windows license goes towards funding the Windows portion of Microsoft's operations. They didn't budget the cost of you using bing into their licenses, so that still needs to be externally funded.
Have we stated that this forum is an ad-funded forum? Or would you prefer to pay a monthly fee to use this place?
Your OS payment doesn't subsidize Bing...That's why Bing has ads. If your OS license subsidized Bing, you wouldn't need to see Bing ads. But your OS license would also be more expensive, if that were the case.
Bing isn't part of a paid product. Bing is a standalone service, which is why it needs to fund itself organically rather than leeching of the revenue of other Microsoft products and services.
When you're searching for something on your computer, you won't see ads. If you read literally any of this thread, you'd be aware of that.
You certainly don't, and the local facet of the search will still work just fine without an internet connection. If you had tried it, you'd already know that.
The reason it is on by default is that unlike you, most people want this feature.
That doesn't offer the same functionality. If you had tried the new search at all, you'd already know that.
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"I hate Google, I hate Google, I hate Google...." Yeah, we get it, you hate Google. Pot calling the kettle black isn't it? LOL...and MS is a kind benevolent business that is only out to do you good! Your posts tells us all about you as well, which is much to do about nothing but defending MS at every turn like Heatlesssun...
Reading comprehension does not seem to be one of your strong points I guess. After all, you would be hard pressed to show me where I said I hate google.
However, I do not really use their services anymore by choice. (Except, on occasion, their search engine.) On the other hand, it is clear when someone has Microsoft hatred and yet has no issue using their products day in and day out.Whatever though, if that is what he chooses to do, so be it. But I call a spade a spade. Can you show me my post history where I said or exhibit google hate? No? I thought so.
That said, I use what I choose to use and will not spew hatred about it and yet use it too make a living.Microsoft is not perfect and I very much am looking forward to Windows 8.1 RTM. I like a lot of the improvements but the release preview is too unstable for me to use daily at this time. (I tried it on all 3 computers I use it on and for the most part worked but did have some issues.) The weirdest one was that the text defaulted to 150% size on my desktop that is hooked to a 37 inch LCD tv through HDMI.
First off I'm not going to try that feature as I don't need or want it. And point me to the place/link/articles, etc.. that says "most" want that feature? And remember paid for articles don't count. BTW...I have ads turned on for the sites that I like and support, which includes HardOCP. Nice try but you seem to have failed.
Reading comprehension does not seem to be one of your strong points I guess. After all, you would be hard pressed to show me where I said I hate google.
Whatever though, if that is what he chooses to do, so be it. But I call a spade a spade. Can you show me my post history where I said or exhibit google hate? No? I thought so.
Microsoft is not perfect and I very much am looking forward to Windows 8.1 RTM. I like a lot of the improvements but the release preview is too unstable for me to use daily at this time. (I tried it on all 3 computers I use it on and for the most part worked but did have some issues.) The weirdest one was that the text defaulted to 150% size on my desktop that is hooked to a 37 inch LCD tv through HDMI.
"I use Bing almost exclusively, dropped my gmail account last year and do not log into any google services. (Sorry, but they are not a kind, benevolent Business that only looks out for your good.)"
Seems pretty clear to me...
Monkey God
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If Microsoft found a way to transmit ads onto your fucking retina without your permission heatlesssun would justify it.
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I still fail to see where that is hate but, I guess perspective is everything. (Choosing to not use something because you may not agree with their business practices is not hate, it is choice.) Now, if I were to post crap about google left and right and then continue to use them and make money off of them, I could see that as hate.
*Posted from my working, totally stable, trouble free Windows 8 computer.
Oh, and if I need anything from XP, Vista, 7 or Linux, I have virtual machines through Virtualbox running for them.
I still fail to see where that is hate but, I guess perspective is everything. (Choosing to not use something because you may not agree with their business practices is not hate, it is choice.) Now, if I were to post crap about google left and right and then continue to use them and make money off of them, I could see that as hate.
*Posted from my working, totally stable, trouble free Windows 8 computer.
Oh, and if I need anything from XP, Vista, 7 or Linux, I have virtual machines through Virtualbox running for them.
Agreed, and I choose not to use MS because of their business practices. Unfortunately I can't avoid using their products so that choice is taken away from me. I see hypocrisy comes in to play when you use MS products but not Google because of some illogical thinking that Google or any company is supposed to be your friend and trust worthy? So you think Ms fits both of those philosophy's? You do realize we are just $$ to every company don't you?
PS: Posting this from a totally stable Windows 7 computer.
Disposed
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Thread about ads in Windows 8.1 and still not a single thing showing said ads besides an article from the worst tech "journalists" on the Internet.
Post pics of the supposed ads or /thread
Post pics of the supposed ads or /thread
heatlesssun
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http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040015816&postcount=2
The very first thing that I mentioned before anyone else here is that this can be easily disabled and I've described elsewhere in the thread how to do so. Why is it so difficult for people to stick with straight forward facts but so easy to spread dishonest hype?
I manage over 35 companies some are bigger then others some don't make the right decisions, I am contractor. That doesn't mean the companies don't have "enterprise" level requirements.
Example Company I work for. Only has 12 computers, yet they have Sage 300, Exchange server enterprise, MS Dynamics, MS CRM. Close to 180 employees in total (and a realy shit internet connection) to top it off its a Pub company .
How about a company that has 7 users, yet they answer to the Government of Canada.
How about First Nations that have 1000+ people that are managed through their systems.
The numerous municipal governments etc..
Just because your IT systems are not huge it doesn't mean they don't have "enterprise" it systems.
Not everyone works for a bloated Federally funded bank such as your self.
Man your so full of shit. I don't see or hear any large outcry of I want to use one search for everything. Why do you think Google and Bing desktops failed. If you can give me Factual Statistics that people want a Universal search then I will concede my point.
Again that's your experience with Bing. My has been the opposite. I despise bing, everything from the retarded name to the fact its just a giant fucking add for buying shit, to the fact it sucks a giant bag of dicks on actually giving you the proper search results. Do a search on a problem on server 2003 all I get is Buy fucking Server 2012 from MS. Search for Linux problems I get results of why MS products are better and silly ass TCO studies by who? fucking MS. Same goes for Vmware why Hyper V is better blah blah.
I don't love google. I don't use any thing of theirs except for a junk address it use to be hotmail but they closed the account. Their search engine in my experience is MUCH better product. I do block their ads as well.
heatlesssun
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Scale is not the only issue but it is a critical concern of true enterprise systems.
Fair enough. But at least we don't allow someone to plug in a laptop they just bought from Best Buy into our network.
Monkey God
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Also, for those of you who think Google "snoops" and Microsoft doesn't....HAHAHAHAHA
I most certainly enjoy using one search for everything.
Universal search is good and useful. This has been the direction things have been moving for a while. URL Bar + Search Box yielded to unified search bars in browsers. The reason Google/Bind desktop programs have been failing is because people don't want to install and use a separate app for that (because at that point I'd rather just load a browser.) Now, because the search is actually all in one unified search AND it's in the same place where I already have type searched for everything since Vista, this is actually a huge boon. I just tap my search button and search, same as before but now BETTER.
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Man, I know we are in the [H]ardforums but swearing ever other word does not make you [H]ard at all. I said it before and I will say it again, your attitude stinks if this is how you act in the real world. Oh well, someday, you might realize how you sound and change, if not, good luck, you will need it.
Bing works well as far as I can tell. Maybe you are doing it wrong?
You obviously are just hating... Name wise Bing is no more bad a name than Google. Google has just been around longer.
Search results in Bing/Google are nearly identical now adays, I try side-by-side searches every month or so just to see how things are going.
I've never had a problem searching for Linux or VMWare on Bing.... Just tried a few searches on Bind that I've done recently on Google and lo and behold, they were the same.
There are few customers that did this, and most now are ex customers, They abused our SLA and they got fired. Not everyone has a giant budget. They have requirements but not budgets. Shoe string budgets are something I have to work with and razor thin margins as well.
Again true "enterprise" systems please give me a definition? what does that mean? Is it software complexity, hardware complexity, Regulations complexity or just plain amount of machines/users?
I can tell you that Software complexity is insane.
Hardware complexity is insane.
Policy and regulations are insane.
The only thing I don't have is Machines/users. Biggest network is 160 users 142 computers.
I have to work with Freedom of Information and Protection act(aka FOIP) I am familiar with Federal and Provincial laws, CSOX = Canadian SarbanesOxley Act (200 Pages). BCoIT and GOAIT (British Columbia and Alberta Government IT policies and subsequent policies).
People that work for big companies are lucky they already have structures rules and regulations whilest SMB 99% of the time have nothing to start with makes my job much more difficult then an admin working for a large company. Off course I enjoy the challenges of my job and turned down a cushy gig with large Pipeline company of being Server admin because all I was ever going to do is work on servers in a data center.
heatlesssun
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Are you referencing me?