Tesla Drastically Increases Supercharger Prices around the World

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Eulogy

    Eulogy 2[H]4U

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    Except we do here in WA State, as an added EV fee to our annual registration. Perhaps do a smidge of research before making blanket statements
     
  2. Jarod888

    Jarod888 2[H]4U

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    I believe bicyclists should be charged a licence and registration fee as well. Anyone over 16 that is. I never claimed to not use rare earth minerals, I just don't believe in using them in massive car batteries. Yes, super markets should be allowed to transfer expired or soon to expire food to homeless shelters with out any repercussions, in other words, if someone gets sick from eating there, the grocery store and the homeless shelter bare no responsibility for that illness.
     
  3. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I live in Southern California, and charging at home (SCE) would run me 28 cent/kWh, so using your numbers a model 3 would cost me 11 cents/mile.

    I drive a 2013 Camry hybrid that's rated 40/38 mpg. My commute is short so I only average 34 mpg (takes a couple miles of warm up to hit full hybrid mode)
    On longer highway trips I usually average 40-45 depending on the speed.
    I paid $3.00 gallon for gas last week at local Costco.

    That means my city driving cost me 8.8 cents/mile, and highway runs 7.5 to 6.7 cents per mile. All cheaper than an electric car.
    Plus my car has a 680 mile range (17 gallon gas tank), which is more than enough to last till my next Costco trip. :p
    I could buy a newer Camry hybrid or a Prius and lower my cost by another 20%. :eek:

    Yet I work with people who think charging their electric car is so much cheaper than buying gas. :rolleyes:
    It's only cheaper if you have some place you can charge for free.
     
  4. Jarod888

    Jarod888 2[H]4U

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    That is only effective when you drive in Washington State. When you cross the boarder, you are driving and damaging the roads without paying for the eventual repairs that will be needed. The gas tax assists in road repairs no matter what state you drive in.
     
  5. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Joust said:
    115 kWh is nothing to scoff at. On a residential scale, that's significant.

    I used 486 kwh last month. Cost me $100.94 due to the high prices here in California :mad:
     
  6. Disco_Stu_04

    Disco_Stu_04 Limp Gawd

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    I'm also under the impression that electric cars are also (in theory) cheaper to maintain over the thousands of miles.

    Supposedly it's also to expand the supercharger framework. Investing in more travel flexibility.
     
  7. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    EV's don't pay extra in California, although out clueless legislature keeps talking about imposing a surcharge not just on electrics but on hybrids too. Not just plugin hybrids but regular hybrids that only use gas. They don't seem to understand the difference.
     
  8. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I know someone who volunteers at a food pantry for the poor/homeless.
    They have to throw out any food that has expired (state law), even if it's something like crackers or bread that expired yesterday but is perfectly fine.
    Rather then throw the expired food out, they let the volunteers take it home. My friend gets several meals a week for free, and the food is fine.
     
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  9. Jarod888

    Jarod888 2[H]4U

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    I guarantee you I have expired food in my fridge right now and I don't mean a day or two expired, I probably have yogurt that is months beyond the date, it's still fine. The simple fact is, unless it's growing something or smells bad, it's ok to eat.
     
  10. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    In theory maintenance should be cheaper on an electric.
    However, if you by a reliable ICE/Hybrid, there isn't much maintenance or repairs on newer cars.
    An unreliable electric car could easily end up costing more than a reliable ICE/Hybrid

    Both electric and ice have brakes and tires that will need to be replaced.
    They both also have wheel bearings, air conditioning system, etc.

    Brakes on a hybrid should last just as long as an electric as both do regenerative braking.

    My Camry hybrid goes 10,000 miles between oil changes (uses synthetic oil)
    At the current rate of wear, the brakes should last 150,000 to 200,000 miles.
    (only got 70,000 miles out of the brakes of my ice Camry)
    Based on other Toyota's I've owned, I expect 10+ years with little or no repair expenses.

    I wouldn't expect an electric car to be much better than that.
     
  11. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't go that far, but I did use some eggs today that had a buy by date of 3 weeks ago. They are usually good for at least a month, depending on how fresh they where when I bough them.
     
  12. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's not the reason supermarkets dump their food. Far more sinister reasons than that.

     
  13. Jarod888

    Jarod888 2[H]4U

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    I have a coworker that would like to disagree with you. When it is cold, she can't run her heater without suffering significant battery loss. She keeps blankets in the car just so she doesn't have to run the heater. Also, her car uses more energy or to say it differently, doesn't last as long when it is cold. Several other folks report the same thing. Electric cars will never be as efficient as ice cars. They are not feasible for long distance travel, nor are the usable anywhere the temperature dips below 40 degrees for any length of time.
     
  14. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's just dumb. Buy a luxury vehicle, and then use blankets in order to save a dollar on heating up the car.
     
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  15. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is good, places that have overuse and a bunch of leechers causing huge lines at SuperChargers will have to change their behavior to make room for people who really need them for their long distance trips.
     
  16. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    In BC during that time we run pumps to pump water back up into the water reserves at the hydro plants so we can crank the gates open when the rates go up.
     
  17. focbde

    focbde Gawd

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    Try the equivalent of about USD$6.20 here in Germany.

    Mind you, it's decent stuff, not that pathetically low octane strained out dishcloth water you guys call fuel
     
  18. travisty

    travisty Gawd

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    I live in colorado and have driven it in negative temps before ;)
     
  19. travisty

    travisty Gawd

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    I drove my Model 3 to the grand canyon from northern colorado this thanksgiving. Temps ranged from teens to 40. Drove distances of 260 miles between supercharges with the heater going. Not sure what your co-worker's doing.
     
  20. ///AMG

    ///AMG 2[H]4U

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    Depends on where you live. In Houston its $0.12/kWh. Costco near me sells Regular for $1.82/gal and 93 for $2.21/gal. So its marginally more for gas. But when prices were $2.50/gal min then yea the Tesla's were much more attractive. I almost bought the Model X but I hate the overall fit and finish and it just doesnt work for me. I think thats one of the things Tesla really needs to work on is fit and finish. Which also leads to their issues with service and reliability.
     
  21. babochee

    babochee Gawd

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    $3.75 per gallon gas1?!?!? I filled up for $1.66/gal yesterday... Guess I'll stick to red states... That contrast is ridiculous!
     
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  22. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

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    Tesla couldn't keep burning cash subsidizing these things forever. Can't keep adding to a nationwide network if each new site increases the cash drain. And it isn't just the power costs. In a lot of places, the lease/rental cost of the real estate required for a site probably is larger then the power costs.
     
  23. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not sure what the actual range of any EV car is today, but at an average speed of 68MPH I can get over 500 miles out of a 15 gallon tank of gas. Under 60, I can easily hit 600 miles. Usually gets better when it gets colder.

    If I am lucky enough to find a gas station which is not blending its fuel (there are still a few), then I can get alomst 650 miles out of a tank of gas.


    Cannot speak to the repair costs of an EV, but the last Lexus we had required nothing more than tires, brakes, oil, filters. and a couple of batteries during the 200,000 miles it was driven. That was a 2006 model.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  24. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Depends on the car and driving conditions. The Tesla would likely beat my gas guzzling V8-powered Mustang in my use case.
     
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  25. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Now 2016 and older will skyrocket in price since they have free supercharging for life.
     
  26. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    All vehicles lose efficiency in the winter, be it ICE or EV. ICE Vehicle's fuel consumption increases 12 to 28% in the winter.

    https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/21032
     
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  27. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup, and part of that is "winter blend" for gas. I know i get a 10% boost by my second tank of "summer blend".

    As a noodle thought, yes pack capacity is reduced in winter, but do you lose "charge"? Or is it like, in ICE terms, your 15 gallon tank gets sectioned off in winter, and you can only fill/drain 10 gallons of it. You dont "lose" 5 gallons.
     
  28. TheSoldier

    TheSoldier Limp Gawd

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    But there really isn't. I'd have to relook at the forecast numbers, but last I heard we only have enough oil to last us until 2040. Unless you are planning to die in the next 21 years, the prying will commence.
     
  29. Unter Dog

    Unter Dog Limp Gawd

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  30. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Look up the texas mother load they found in 2017/2018 that they havent even tapped into yet. Once they start tappin, they can increase production "one California's worth of output" every year. At this point, the USA can be an exporter for the next 75 years.

    2040, is for some of the major saudi sections which we have relied on since opec started, where they are literally pumping in more sea water than they are getting oil out, just to keep the pressure up.
     
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  31. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There are several companies researching biofuels. I would rather see biofuels developed rather than being reliant on lithium-based battery tech.
     
  32. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    Our AC power is also half the voltage but it still runs the electrics in our homes just fine, and we also pay much less for our electricity. For $2 if it moves the car it moves the car.
     
  33. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    Considering these stations are about convenience, it's not surprising. Just like buying food/etc at a gas station, it'll cost more than if you charged at home.
     
  34. matt167

    matt167 Gawd

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    My Kei truck gets 39 mpg at $2.59 per gallon currently Costs basically nothing. Vehicle cost was less than $6k
     
  35. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Well I'm not sure what SoCal Edison's plans are but I'm assuming you're talking about your traditional plan.

    Up here in No.Cal, PG&rapEyourwallet actually does have ToU EV plans. And the off-peak prices are like 12-12.5c/Kwh which is less than 5cents/mile (assume your math was correct). So it can in fact be quite a bit cheaper than gas. That said the peak rates are pretty obnoxiously high, but IMO it's a trade off. If you want to just use electricity crazy like normal and then also put a vehicle on there that uses crazy amounts too, then you're going to end up paying more for that electricity somewhere.


    For some though the idea of electric cars are kind of like that for hybrid cars, it's less about the "gas savings" as long as it's not grossly different and more about the pollution aspect. And while yeah electricity comes from somewhere and that somewhere may be a coal fired power plant (and ironically those places that use them tend to have cheaper rates), but that coal fired powerplant isn't in your back yard, Southern California sunsets are not super pretty because that's the way the Sun sets, they're pretty because of all the pollution in the air makes it look so vibrantly red & orange. Being able to drive with the window down and enjoying fresh air is probably something people would rather have rather than having your eyes irritated and your throat burn because of all the pollution that is primarily due to cars sitting in traffic chugging out gas fumes.
     
  36. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Instead of using gas as a crutch, tax by weight and mileage like many other nations, the damage to the road is a square function of vehicle weight, so heavier cars pay more road taxes.
     
  37. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's so much cheaper too on your home 240v hookup.
     
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  38. STEvil

    STEvil 2[H]4U

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    only helps if thats what its spent on and not pushed somewhere else by the gov't.
     
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  39. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    2.29 for premium here. Tesla sales are going to hate this.
     
  40. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Little mini packs of crackers don't "expire" they have a "best by" date. These are 2 completely different things. They are packed in nitrogen, they'll never really "expire."

    What a waste.