Team Fortress 2 Idler program punishment

the concept was good imo, the community itself just turned it into something stupid and lame. the drop system was fine, even though the chance rolls might have been flawed, you don't need those items and it doesn't matter if you have them or not. whining, bickering, and general contempt over hats just shows their level of maturity and how petty and spiteful people are. valve just sits back and pulls the puppet strings, watch them dance! oh you been a bad boy *tug*, people pay to see the show, and they do us right by keeping us entertained.
 
no the drop system was stupid hats should of been a reward for finishing all the achievments for a class
 
Rofl-Mic-Lofl said:
Lol... FULL BLOWN WAR.

Glad I never come upon stupid people like the "rebels" listed in the article.
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Heh, seems an apt way of describing it, playing in pubs is now a miserable experience with all the griefers from both sides. I doubt most of them even care about the issue and are just happy to participate in something new and different.
 
I got a hat today rewarding me for not cheating. It is a halo and I guess any class can wear it. I'm sure you guys know about this by now.
 
Blackstone said:
I got a hat today rewarding me for not cheating. It is a halo and I guess any class can wear it. I'm sure you guys know about this by now.
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Soon everyone will be wearing one, which defeats the purpose of having hats in the first place.
 
I wish this was the biggest problem in my life as some are making it out to be. Then life would be sweet.
 
silasbear said:
I wish this was the biggest problem in my life as some are making it out to be. Then life would be sweet.
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I gotta say, it's pretty damn cool having the biggest problem in your life being something you can leisurely enjoy and walk away from without recourse when it bores you.
 
I used an unlocker instead of an idler. I already bought the game; they can fuck off if they think I'm jumping through hoops to unlock shit, or wait for it to drop randomly.

Got the halo, anyway.
 
Unlockers have been around for ages, I used one to actually reset all my achievements so I could get them all over again without using achievement servers, only a few of the harder ones to go now :)

I think people idling to get the hats is kind of stupid but its behaviour that valve encouraged by having such a stupid system to begin with, massively amplified by the immensly small drop rates for the hats.

So all in all not a big surprise.
 
What I don't understand is, why are they doing this? Conventional wisdom right now says that console is king, but here we get these massive, substantial updates with new maps and hats and weapons and the content is PC only . Say whatever you want about whether you like what they do with their updates or not, but you have to admire their commitment to a game that was part of a package of games from 2007 that was not a bad deal to begin with. Not to mention there is no subscription. I think the fact they find these updates even worth doing speaks volumes about the PC platform.
 
Blackstone said:
What I don't understand is, why are they doing this? Conventional wisdom right now says that console is king, but here we get these massive, substantial updates with new maps and hats and weapons and the content is PC only . Say whatever you want about whether you like what they do with their updates or not, but you have to admire their commitment to a game that was part of a package of games from 2007 that was not a bad deal to begin with. Not to mention there is no subscription. I think the fact they find these updates even worth doing speaks volumes about the PC platform.
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Because when they do updates it brings in more sales, valve have spoken publicly about this effect before.

Updates like a handful of hats really isn't a lot of development time anyway, some of the other updates are more significant but hats...modeling and skinning a handful of hats doesn't take very long at all.
 
They should have released a devil-horns hat for the cheaters who lost their items! - that would have made this craptastic fail of an update just the perfect amount of epic. :p

I quit playing this game quite a while ago - Valve just seems to keep finding ways to make TF2 worse and worse. Guess I have finally earned my first hat now - too bad I will probably never bother trying it on.
 
Wrench00 said:
I think making people grind for shit is just stupid, its not a MMORPG.
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Is the game less fun if you start from scratch today with nothing in your inventory?
If you were to never equip an item, would you honestly say you couldn't enjoy the game as much as you did with the same items back when it came out?

But here's the great secret Valve has been hiding from everybody: you don't need any of the items to play have a fun.
Making you feel like you need to get drops or achievements is the whole point of what Valve is doing: give you a reason to keep playing. They're playing on the psychology that if they put a carrot in front of your nose, most people will chase it.

If you don't want to chase the carrot, don't.
 
FreiDOg said:
Is the game less fun if you start from scratch today with nothing in your inventory?
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Yes, wheres my blautsauger, wheres my KGB, etc, I feel so N00b and weak sauce, oh noes I have grind for 10,000 hours doing stupid achievements?

If you were to never equip an item, would you honestly say you couldn't enjoy the game as much as you did with the same items back when it came out?

But here's the great secret Valve has been hiding from everybody: you don't need any of the items to play have a fun.
Making you feel like you need to get drops or achievements is the whole point of what Valve is doing: give you a reason to keep playing. They're playing on the psychology that if they put a carrot in front of your nose, most people will chase it.

If you don't want to chase the carrot, don't.
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Or you just quit playing and tell everyone how WoWish it is.
 
Monkey God said:
Yes, wheres my blautsauger, wheres my KGB, etc, I feel so N00b and weak sauce, oh noes I have grind for 10,000 hours doing stupid achievements?


Or you just quit playing and tell everyone how WoWish it is.
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That certainly seems to be the prevailing option on the internet: You mean somebody who is clearly not as good as I am has a silly hat I don't?! This injustice can not be allowed to stand.
 
FreiDOg said:
That certainly seems to be the prevailing option on the internet: You mean somebody who is clearly not as good as I am has a silly hat I don't?! This injustice can not be allowed to stand.
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Hats are just part of it. A new symptom of the same problem. Grinding. When I stopped playing a while back, I had many hours into it and and it kept giving me the same shit over and over. Not based on skill. Not based on achievements, just random drops, of the same damn old thing. LAME.

Theres purpose based grinding:
"lulz kill 20 guys underwater"

And then theres random drops. Both lame.
 
Monkey God said:
Hats are just part of it. A new symptom of the same problem. Grinding. When I stopped playing a while back, I had many hours into it and and it kept giving me the same shit over and over. Not based on skill. Not based on achievements, just random drops, of the same damn old thing. LAME.

Theres purpose based grinding:
"lulz kill 20 guys underwater"

And then theres random drops. Both lame.
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Well you can get the items doing achievements, and they introduced the random drops so the less-elite crowd could get some drops too.

It's not grinding, it's just a nice addition that adds some versatility. Although I agree that you shouldn't get repeat drops.
 
Rofl-Mic-Lofl said:
Well you can get the items doing achievements, and they introduced the random drops so the less-elite crowd could get some drops too.

It's not grinding, it's just a nice addition that adds some versatility. Although I agree that you shouldn't get repeat drops.
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Random loot is random. Getting the same thing time after time can happen.
 
Monkey God said:
Hats are just part of it. A new symptom of the same problem. Grinding. When I stopped playing a while back, I had many hours into it and and it kept giving me the same shit over and over. Not based on skill. Not based on achievements, just random drops, of the same damn old thing. LAME.
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But why do you need to get them at all?
That's what I'm trying to to get at. The approach you and most people who are complaing about the perks seem to take is: there's new content, I must have it now.

I understand the random drops can be frustrating if you're really wanting one item in particular. Though all the weapon unlocks are available through achievements, so when you talk about it being just random drops, you are talking just about the hats. (Valve did briefly make the spy and sniper updates random only, but the Steam Forums whent berserk and it was quickly changed back to include achievement milestones).

I just don't uderstand
Yes, wheres my blautsauger, wheres my KGB, etc, I feel so N00b and weak sauce, oh noes I have grind for 10,000 hours doing stupid achievements?
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that kind of thought process.

EDIT
I guess I should ask, is there shooter out there you really are enjoying Monkey God?
 
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prtzlboy said:
Yeah, TF2 is quickly spiraling away from what made Team Fortress awesome in the first place.
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TF2 was never even remotely true to TF, not even remotely true to that pile of crap they called TFC.

TF2 is Mattel's "My First Shooter."
 
Blackstone said:
That is nonsense. TF2's gameplay is pretty deep, deeper than most. I would say it is a fairly sophisticated shooter, and it isn't exactly light on ultraviolence either.
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Well while I like a lot of things about TF2, I can't possibly take this seriously when people can fire a shot and *randomly* get 3x more damage for no reason what so ever.

TF2 was built to be exceptionally newb friendly there is just no denying it, it doesn't have the complexity and tactics TFC had, all the classes are geared towards combat even the scout which is supposed to be the harrasment and flag stealing class.
 
Ryom said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sC9J...layer_embedded

Lots of parodies use this clip, pretty entertaining nonetheless regarding the idle situation
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That made me laugh. Good stuff.
 
why are you guys complaining so much about this?
SO what... you play the game to have fun, to backstab and sap all those sentrys, to snipe the hell out of those pyros.. not to show off how cool you are because you have a freaking worthless item

its not to show off your e-penis with all the special hats you have, those are just the cherry on top... they affect NOTHING other than your will to want to unlock the hats and the little extras, other than that the mechanics of the game are exactly the same...

waaaaaaaaa valve sucks because they added some funny quirks to make the whole experience more appealing..
if you are playing the game for the sole reason to unlock hats or guns, than you are playing the game for the wrong reasons!
people forgot how to play games nowadays huh...


reminds me when valve released VAC, all the little whiny hackers flipped out swearing they never hacked and blablabla VAC ruined the game waa waa waaa..
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Well while I like a lot of things about TF2, I can't possibly take this seriously when people can fire a shot and *randomly* get 3x more damage for no reason what so ever.

TF2 was built to be exceptionally newb friendly there is just no denying it, it doesn't have the complexity and tactics TFC had, all the classes are geared towards combat even the scout which is supposed to be the harrasment and flag stealing class.
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No.
It's geared towards letting every one have fun.
TF2 does reward skill... but it rewards teamwork more.
And that puts off a lot of people who grew up on competitive (I'm on the top of the leader board, so I'm the best player) shooter.

But there's a big difference between catering to 'newbs' and letting the bottom half of the leader board get points, contribute to the team, and most importantly: have fun. If it were what you characterize it as, randoms like critical hits would be more likely for the losing side: to offset skill and protect weaker players. They're just the opposite, the more damage you're doing, the better you're doing, the more likely you are to get crits.
 
FreiDOg said:
No.
It's geared towards letting every one have fun.
TF2 does reward skill... but it rewards teamwork more.
And that puts off a lot of people who grew up on competitive (I'm on the top of the leader board, so I'm the best player) shooter.

But there's a big difference between catering to 'newbs' and letting the bottom half of the leader board get points, contribute to the team, and most importantly: have fun. If it were what you characterize it as, randoms like critical hits would be more likely for the losing side: to offset skill and protect weaker players. They're just the opposite, the more damage you're doing, the better you're doing, the more likely you are to get crits.
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yeah i went on a 6 crit-punch-kill streak as the heavy on warpath way back before any of the updates.

I'm an old Counter Strike 1.6 player (old being a relative term :\), and I love TF2. Every once in a while when I get a couple people together in vent and go on a TF2 server, the crit rocket is always a hilarious event. Wether you get one or get hit by one, which is remarkable, because getting hit by an awp (1 hit KO weapon in counter strike)... maybe not so much fun. The crit rocket is always a laugh. Just the other day I was in a guy who had his speakers on, so you could hear feedback, about 5 mins into a game I heard him go "ooohhhhh", then the signature "dink!", followed by a long "F#@%", and the sounds of a 17 year old asian kid going super sayan 4. It was hilarious.
 
I played TFC competitively and put in hours just about every day until they patched it with transporters.
At that point the community sucked and the game was not TFC anymore.

TF2 is still at its roots a good team game. I think the random drop system is lame, idle servers are just as lame though.

If you play the game you get the items that actually do something, (weapons etc.) Yes I have a ton of doubles but whatever. A hat however will not make my rocket more explosive than it was before so theres no point to idle'ing to get one.

Personally I wish valve would go with a random drop of items with current weapon drop rates from players that get killed, the items stay on the ground like normal weapon ammo drops do. The normal weapon still falls for metal etc, but if they drop you get whatever they dropped. Raise the hat drop rate a tiny bit and do that the same way.

Would be rewarding so players can actually "find" the stuff, and those who just have to grind to have the latest stuff can go off and waste hours killing each other.

Then they should actually put in the trade system.

Whatever, I still play and enjoy the game.
 
Tekara said:
Heh, seems an apt way of describing it, playing in pubs is now a miserable experience with all the griefers from both sides. I doubt most of them even care about the issue and are just happy to participate in something new and different.
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I played tonight on about 5 servers, glad I never heard anyone say anything about a halo :cool:
 
MrWizard6600 said:
I heard him go "ooohhhhh", then the signature "dink!", followed by a long "F#@%", and the sounds of a 17 year old asian kid going super sayan 4. It was hilarious.
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Haha the way you described it does make it sound quite funny...

And that's why I play the game too... competitive games is ass-backwards... you play games to have fun and unwind... it's entertainment...

Once you start playing competitive it turns into a job and takes all the fun out of it...
 
Monkey God said:
Hats are just part of it. A new symptom of the same problem. Grinding. When I stopped playing a while back, I had many hours into it and and it kept giving me the same shit over and over. Not based on skill. Not based on achievements, just random drops, of the same damn old thing. LAME.

Theres purpose based grinding:
"lulz kill 20 guys underwater"

And then theres random drops. Both lame.
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grow the fuck up, "grinding" has never been a required part of tf2. if you don't want to do the stupid achievements then you don't have to, you don't need them to unlock the weapons. the minimum amount you need are regular achievements that just happen in the game. like "get 20 headshots" or "make 5 backstabs in a row". I know this for a fact because that's how I got all mine, never once did I even pay attention to the achievements while I was playing.

the random drop system is just the result of years of incessant fanboy dipshits whining and bickering non stop until valve finally snapped, and went crazy. that's why it's all broken and screwed up, they just wanted to do something, anything to get people to just shut the fuck up and play. obviously it did not work, so they will be fixing this in patch after patch for the rest of eternity.
 
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