Switch From Windows to Linux

GhostCow said:
Many games ported to Linux use an old version of OpenGL that's still compatible with Macs. You can't even get AA in Civ V on Linux. Not to mention what a headache installing closed source video card drivers is on linux. I broke things plenty of times trying to do that in my noob days. I'm sorry but it's just nowhere close. Less games and many of the games available perform worse. Vulkan could have changed that but it hasn't. I'm not seeing massive amounts of support for it yet.
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Not true.

Apple has stalled development of OGL on their platform, titles are not ported from MacOS. In many cases OGL is being depreciated in favor of Vulkan and Linux supports OGL as well as Vulkan 100%. Linux has overtaken MacOS as the gaming platform of choice second to Windows.

Installing Nvidia drivers via the PPA method is actually easier than the same process under Windows, furthermore they keep themselves updated. Running Nvidia drivers under Linux, FXAA under Civ V is able to be forced via drivers - Not that the lack of AA under Civ V makes that much of a difference considering the title.

Vulkan support is enjoying adoption pretty much in line with DX12, DX needs to die in a housefire for the betterment of gaming in general. As stated, I'm gaming under Linux,~80% of my library is supported, performance is great, sometimes better than native Windows considering Vulkan and no resource sucking anti virus needed.
 
If a game is ported to Linux it's generally ported to Mac too and they use the same old version of OGL for both. Every single game ever ported to Linux by Aspyr is like this.

Not everyone on Linux is using a distro that has PPA support and having to constantly add PPAs via the command line to keep software up to date is not good usability anyway. It was one of the things I hated about Linux Mint.

DX12 support isn't great either. The level of support is low for both right now and as of right now there's not much reason to even use Vulkan over dx12 because Vulkan doesn't work on MacOS and no one cares about Linux. The only reason to go with Vulkan is if you happen to be a benevolent dev like Valve or you're doing multiplatform mobile games.
 
If linux supported games proper I would be all over it. I have been getting some issues in windows for the last 6 months I just cant nail down that have me at wits end.
 
oMek said:
If linux supported games proper I would be all over it. I have been getting some issues in windows for the last 6 months I just cant nail down that have me at wits end.
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Issues such as what?
 
DeathFromBelow said:
I disagree. Something has changed in the last 5 or so years where Linux became far more compatible and usable. It's a fast, stable OS on a huge variety of hardware and there are enough games and software available for it to be a viable platform.

There's still a lot of Windows exclusive stuff you might keep a Windows 7/10 SSD for, but you don't need it everywhere like you used to.
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15 years ago Dual Booting was fun. I've been so spoiled with a system that just works for most of my things that I've just been fat and happy with Windows. Yes there are more issues with windows if you listen to the news, but normally those targetted by issues are the not so IT savvy people that find it expensive or difficult if they have to do something as simple as a backup and restore. I've tried the linux thing, and while it does do more than it used to, it doesn't do enough to warrant the jump imho.
 
Mazzspeed said:
This is one of my biggest problems with Windows, the open nature of Linux is what I find most appealing

It's really not the problem misinformed Windows users like to claim it is.
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Meh, I've used quite a few of the distros. Each are different in enough annoying ways. I have yet to find the unicorn Linux for me.
 
I would rather run Linux, but I game with both monitor and VR so Windows.
 
ManofGod said:
Issues such as what?
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One game I play SWGEMU, you can run multi copy's of the game doing AFK stuff while you work/sleep etc. If running multi copy's of the game I will randomly DC from one of them. Nobody else seems to have this issue.

Chrome and Discord randomly use 100% of my Gig network and pretty much lock PC up.

System Interrupts randomly uses 90% of CPU and locks up the computer.

These might not all be windows issues IDK. I have re installed windows 10 4-5 times, reinstalled all games 10+ times, Tried 5-6 different NIC drivers, Messed with more settings that I can remember, Updated/reset router (edgerouter x).

I have ran memtest86, xmp on and off, OCed cpu and not OCed, 4-5 different bios versions. When running more demanding games it seems to run fine, prime95 is stable avx version and non avx version.
 
Auer said:
It would seem somewhat shortsighted for a gamer to pick an OS that limits his/her game availability.
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Gamers aren't shallow, the posers that believe buying every title available on a constant hardware upgrade path are the shallow ones and they're a niche of the gaming community. Windows is far from a perfect OS, I'm not going to use it to play an overpriced title.
 
dgz said:
Don't do it if you play VR games or have a navi card. Don't ask how I know...
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Of course there is always *someone* out there that has to ask... :) I just set up Linux Mint on a spare Ryzen 2700x / x470 /32Gb with an AMD 5700 XT for video, and haven't encountered any issues yet. Of course I'm not doing VR, but since you mentioned the Navi card I'm wondering what caveats you're aware of.
 
GhostCow said:
If a game is ported to Linux it's generally ported to Mac too and they use the same old version of OGL for both. Every single game ever ported to Linux by Aspyr is like this.

Not everyone on Linux is using a distro that has PPA support and having to constantly add PPAs via the command line to keep software up to date is not good usability anyway. It was one of the things I hated about Linux Mint.

DX12 support isn't great either. The level of support is low for both right now and as of right now there's not much reason to even use Vulkan over dx12 because Vulkan doesn't work on MacOS and no one cares about Linux. The only reason to go with Vulkan is if you happen to be a benevolent dev like Valve or you're doing multiplatform mobile games.
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The only titles ported like this are made by Aspyr, titles are ported mostly from Windows ports due to the ease of doing so leveraging the Wine project, DXVK and Proton. If you don't update drivers using the PPA method you're running a rolling release distro and the process is even easier. If you're running a distro relying on the outdated .run method of installation it's no wonder you're having issues with Linux as you're stuck somewhere in the early 2000's.

DX10/11 to DXVK = pretty much faultless performance. DX9 to DX9VK = pretty much faultless performance.

MacOS is dying as a platform due to Apple's greed, everyone supports Vulkan with the exception of Apple who don't even support Nvidia drivers/hardware - Metal is a niche of a niche that won't go anywhere. It's nothing more than Apple's attempt at a vendor lock in that wont work as they only hold 5% of the marketplace while they try to make themselves into a modern Sun Workstation vendor.
 
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Mazzspeed said:
Gamers aren't shallow, the posers that believe buying every title available on a constant hardware upgrade path are the shallow ones and they're a niche of the gaming community. Windows is far from a perfect OS, I'm not going to use it to play an overpriced title.
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Wanting to play the latest titles is shallow?

Is there a list of non-shallow games?

What hardware is approved by the non-shallow (Deep?) gaming community?
 
Auer said:
Wanting to play the latest titles is shallow?

Is there a list of non-shallow games?

What hardware is approved by the non-shallow (Deep?) gaming community?
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That's a common Linux-fan counterargument I see when you give a reason you don't find Linux to work for you: "Oh you shouldn't want to do that."
 
Auer said:
Wanting to play the latest titles is shallow?

Is there a list of non-shallow games?

What hardware is approved by the non-shallow (Deep?) gaming community?
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Where did I state that?

Fact is: There are a great many gamers getting by just fine under Linux, take a look at r/Linux_Gaming when you get a chance. Linux is the second most desirable gaming platform under Steam with more titles available considering native as well as SteamPlay than MacOS, better drivers, Nvidia compatibility, Vulkan and full OGL support and the ability to create custom machines with better cooling than everything but a 50k Mac Pro.

When it comes to the VFX industry, Linux reigns supreme in relation to both servers/clusters and workstations alike.
 
Sycraft said:
That's a common Linux-fan counterargument I see when you give a reason you don't find Linux to work for you: "Oh you shouldn't want to do that."
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Of course You're the only one saying that as I never made such a claim at all.
 
Algrim said:
Meh, I've used quite a few of the distros. Each are different in enough annoying ways. I have yet to find the unicorn Linux for me.
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Meh, I used Windows 10, it was annoying in many ways and I had a distinct lack of options considering the NT kernel. I've yet to see a Windows unicorn for me.
 
Auer said:
Kinda came across that way...?
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No, not at all. Lets keep posts in the context they were intended.

Nowhere in that statement was it claimed that wanting to play the latest titles is in any way shallow. It was stated that the posers that believe buying every title released is the sign of a true gamer were the shallow ones.

Quite often certain latest releases work fine under Linux within about a month of their release. DRM/Anticheat is the biggest hurdle.
 
My gaming experience under Linux has been steadily improving. Between Lutris, PlayonLinux, Proton. I'm playing what I want. Do all things work? I have issues on occasion, but they do get resolved.
And I can fall back to Win 10 if needed. That doesn't happen a lot though.
 
DogsofJune said:
My gaming experience under Linux has been steadily improving. Between Lutris, PlayonLinux, Proton. I'm playing what I want. Do all things work? I have issues on occasion, but they do get resolved.
And I can fall back to Win 10 if needed. That doesn't happen a lot though.
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Furthermore, back when I ran Windows, quite often gaming wasn't just install and play - I encountered numerous issues from Nvidia driver problems to Anti Virus messing with launchers. Quite often a substantial amount of Googling was required before issues were resolved or I had to wait for certain aspects to be updated before things worked correctly.

It's something I experienced recently regarding Quake Champions, my problem was identical to the problem encountered by Windows users and the fix was identical between platforms.
 
No one that uses this site is an "average PC User", this is a hardware enthusiast forum... The reason Linux proper hasn't taken off on the desktop is simple, Karen can't go to Wal-Mart and pick up a PC running Linux. Thats it. It has nothing to do with games, or missing applications, or annoying evangelists.

Now, the reason I say "Linux proper" is because Linux has quietly taken over the world while no one was looking, in the form of ChromeOS. Chromebooks are dominating the non-HardForum browsing population.
 
wizdum said:
No one that uses this site is an "average PC User", this is a hardware enthusiast forum... The reason Linux proper hasn't taken off on the desktop is simple, Karen can't go to Wal-Mart and pick up a PC running Linux. Thats it. It has nothing to do with games, or missing applications, or annoying evangelists.

Now, the reason I say "Linux proper" is because Linux has quietly taken over the world while no one was looking, in the form of ChromeOS. Chromebooks are dominating the non-HardForum browsing population.
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Well under 2% is dominating? They're huge in the education space, Google quickly took over Apple's education strangle hold, but outside of that they're still under Linux in home use.
 
I still have money on MS abandoning the OS space. The lack of coherent direction with Windows, the gutting of the QA team, the seeming decision of abandoning new versions of Windows and avoidance of finding a real replacement for something as old as the NTFS filesystem all indicate MS isn't looking to do anything with OSes anymore. All serious company efforts have been put towards other projects. The inclusion and integration of Linux subsystems into Windows indicates the direction MS is looking to go.

I think before too many more years go by we're going to see MS abandon Windows for what amounts to little more than a MS based Linux distro. No more need to futz with new filesystems which don't work, no more messing with the ancient kernel or trying to keep relevant an ancient filesystem. The ability to drop much of the support and design teams. MS could use smaller teams to work on smaller, specific projects such as its own Windows DE. Server functions would simply be ported to run on a Linux base instead of a Windows base and still be licensed no different than it is now. All software MS currently makes money on would be ported over. MS already has a store which attempts to imitate many Linux package managers so there would be no reason software couldn't be sold through that. MS also wouldn't need to worry anywhere near as much about security concerns either.

The point is there may not be much of an issue before too long. If MS looks to abandon the OS market companies will have no choice but to port over and support their software on Linux and the point will be moot.
 
erek said:
give it a try:

The 2010s Were Very Successful For Wine Thanks To CodeWeavers + Valve's Steam Play
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what's the point of all this linux stuff? I mean its cool and all that if you have a need for bash and the command line utilities, but then you can just cygwin for all that stuff. as crappy as windows can be it still is more consistent with applications than linux + emulators.
For them to be really successful they need to make a better windows experience than using windows and it just seems they are a long way from that.
 
jiminator said:
what's the point of all this linux stuff? I mean its cool and all that if you have a need for bash and the command line utilities, but then you can just cygwin for all that stuff. as crappy as windows can be it still is more consistent with applications than linux + emulators.
For them to be really successful they need to make a better windows experience than using windows and it just seems they are a long way from that.
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And this is where transitioning Windows users get it wrong, Linux is not a drop in Windows replacement, Linux is Linux.

Windows is by no means the benchmark by which all other operating systems need to emulate and the days of one desktop for everyone are gone. These days we have a plethora of mobile interfaces, we have smart appliances, as long as you have a Firefox or Chrome icon indicating the browser, a file icon indicating the file manager, an envelope indicating Email, a document icon indicating the office suite and a PDF icon indicating a PDF reader - That's ~70% of the simplistic user base covered.

Linux is far from the software wasteland Windows users believe it to be and the biggest problem with desktop computing in general - Is Windows.

The point is, one OS is moving forwards at an impressive rate, the other is stuck in the mud as MS have lost interest and the idea that Windows is the perfect OS as long as we can play 100% of games released is simplistic thinking at best.
 
Mazzspeed said:
You realize computing as a whole involves more than the desktop space, right?

2% with absolutely no marketing and no more than simple people power is no small achievement.
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Home use accounts for desktops and laptops. As for no marketing, are you blind? Google has been, heavily, adverting Chromebooks for a while. Beyond Chromebook ads around the net and on TV putting them in schools also serves as a form of marketing.
 
Derangel said:
Home use accounts for desktops and laptops. As for no marketing, are you blind? Google has been, heavily, adverting Chromebooks for a while. Beyond Chromebook ads around the net and on TV putting them in schools also serves as a form of marketing.
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I deleted my post as I took you out of context.

However, Android is globally the most popular OS, by far more popular than Windows - And Android is Linux. I know I ditched my MacBook for a Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e with the keyboard folio using DeX mode and never looked back - Battery life not to mention boot times and overall speed and portability kills my MacBook considering my needs on the job.

I've even installed Ubuntu and have terminal under DeX mode using Termux.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I deleted my post as I took you out of context.

However, Android is globally the most popular OS, by far more popular than Windows - And Android is Linux. I know I ditched my MacBook for a Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e with the keyboard folio using DeX mode and never looked back - Battery life not to mention boot times and overall speed and portability kills my MacBook considering my needs on the job.

I've even installed Ubuntu and have terminal under DeX mode using Termux.
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Well, plug a keyboard and a monitor into your phone, and why are we having this conversation?
If you like what your phone does, then fine, android is jesus. but wait, it can do more you say. ok, fine, use it then.
It doesn't do what I need.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I deleted my post as I took you out of context.

However, Android is globally the most popular OS, by far more popular than Windows - And Android is Linux. I know I ditched my MacBook for a Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e with the keyboard folio using DeX mode and never looked back - Battery life not to mention boot times and overall speed and portability kills my MacBook considering my needs on the job.

I've even installed Ubuntu and have terminal under DeX mode using Termux.
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Goal post moving. Android isn't a desktop OS and has nothing to do with the conversation. Also, Android is pretty antithetical to what Linux should be (especially Samsung's custom locked-down version). Why do people fall all over themselves to use it to claim victory?
 
Derangel said:
Goal post moving. Android isn't a desktop OS and has nothing to do with the conversation. Also, Android is pretty antithetical to what Linux should be (especially Samsung's custom locked-down version). Why do people fall all over themselves to use it to claim victory?
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Using DeX mode, I use Android as a desktop OS. Linux is used on more devices than Windows, it really is that simple.

I see Windows eventually adopting the Linux kernel and using a locked down DE based on the Windows interface as to do so just makes sense moving forward.

[EDIT] DeX is no more locked down than Android, Android is open source.
 
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jiminator said:
Well, plug a keyboard and a monitor into your phone, and why are we having this conversation?
If you like what your phone does, then fine, android is jesus. but wait, it can do more you say. ok, fine, use it then.
It doesn't do what I need.
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We all have differing needs and I'm tipping that no matter what you say, you've never even tried it.

The fact you like Windows, doesn't mean it's the perfect OS. Use what suits yourself and don't cry foul when you get left behind as MS abandon their desktop OS. The Windows you know today cannot stay the way it is forever based on the NT kernel and NTFS file system.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Using DeX mode, I use Android as a desktop OS.
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No, you're using a mobile OS in a mode that is mimicking a "desktop experience". It does not magically become a desktop OS just because you can connect it to a monitor and some peripherals. You are essentially emulating a desktop experience.
 
Derangel said:
No, you're using a mobile OS in a mode that is mimicking a "desktop experience". It does not magically become a desktop OS just because you can connect it to a monitor and some peripherals. You are essentially emulating a desktop experience.
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A desktop is no more than an interface and mobile operating systems are evolving to allow for far more multitasking, which is essentially what we're talking about when we relate to a desktop experience. Android has always been very versatile in relation to multi tasking and customization and now iOS is headed in the same direction.

If Windows 10 can 'emulate' a mobile interface with it's mishmash fat fingered UI, than Android can provide for a true multitasking desktop experience - Something DeX does very well.

EDIT: Furthermore, I'm using a Tab S5e, no additional monitor needed.
 
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Auer said:
Wanting to play the latest titles is shallow?

Is there a list of non-shallow games?

What hardware is approved by the non-shallow (Deep?) gaming community?
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I think Stranded Deep is probably Non Shallow if I was gonna judge it by the title. :)
 
so... how many companies use android.... for anything? At all? the fact that it is on lots of devices means nothing. Companies will either use windows, solaris, or maybe linux. at least the ones I have worked for.
China I think wants to move away from windows... and if you have tablets, sure, they often will have android. otherwise....
 
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