Switch From Windows to Linux

mashie said:
I have been running Xubuntu for years.

The first thing I did when I received this Lenovo X1 Extreme gen 2 was to nuke the Win 10 install it came preloaded with and replaced it with Xubuntu 19.10.
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Does it fully support the device without issue, such as screen rotation and the touch screen?
 
ManofGod said:
Well, perhaps I could throw something back at you and ask you why you always make things personal? ;) :D Also, I would consider myself more experienced then you in a great many things, although not everything, of course. My opinions are about as unbiased as they come, since I do not see things with horse blinders on, like I used to pretend I did 20 years ago.
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I'm not making things personal, hence "no offense". Making things personal indicates a back against the wall inability to provide a realistic rebuttal, that is not the case here.
 
Mazzspeed said:
MSI installers (.exe's) are one of the biggest problems with Windows today. Personally I'll take a PPA or the AUR over some random .MSI from some obscure part of the internet anyday, some level of additional security is better than nothing and installing software via terminal is vastly superior to any GUI once you get used to it - Furthermore, it's in no way daunting or difficult.
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In your opinion, yes. However, those who do not get into computers are going to probably find it daunting and difficult.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I'm not making things personal, hence "no offense". Making things personal indicates a back against the wall inability to provide a realistic rebuttal, that is not the case here.
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Oh, so I made a good rebuttal and realistic rebuttal, which you just said is the case here. Thanks. :)
 
To get off the back and forth over Linux is this or the no its not back and forth. lol

If anyone is really interested in trying Linux for the first time in 2020.

My suggestion to new users... and the distro that ime over the last 3 or 4 years has made converts out of people I know.

Manjaro

https://manjaro.org/download/official/gnome/

My suggestion is Manjaro Gnome... as a place to start. Its a solid Linux desktop with a semi-rolling release. You will NOT have to install any odd packages to do basic things like play a game on steam. It is based on Arch Linux which is fast and reliable... with one extra layer of package testing before release. (which is what makes it semi rolling) Arch gets basically daily updates manjaro gets weekly... with their packages being in general 2-4 weeks behind Arch.

The only thing I would install as a new user that the Manjaro team hasn't thought about installing for you... would be widevine IF you are using your machine for things like Netflix and Amazon Prime Disney+ ect.

If you install the widevine AUR package... you can run Chromium instead of Chrome. (you can install chrome instead... but Manjaro/Arch does make it very easy to run chromium and install the widevine DRM module on its own)
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/chromium-widevine/
 
Mazzspeed said:
MSI installers (.exe's) are one of the biggest problems with Windows today. Personally I'll take a PPA or the AUR over some random .MSI from some obscure part of the internet anyday, some level of additional security is better than nothing and installing software via terminal is vastly superior to any GUI once you get used to it - Furthermore, it's in no way daunting or difficult.
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No one wants to use the terminal except giant nerds. Normal users and power users shouldn't even have to know it exists
 
Mazzspeed said:
Except compiling your own binaries is stuck somewhere in 2003, no one does that anymore.
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So you think, until you can't find that old nic driver you need (or whatever) and it's been dropped from the kernel.. . OR that new WiFi driver that isn't in the kernel yet. These are not "2003" issues. Even adding or deleteting repositories is beyond the scope of the average user.
 
GhostCow said:
No one wants to use the terminal except giant nerds. Normal users and power users shouldn't even have to know it exists
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If you can't use a terminal I question the term 'power user'. Personally, the idea of administering a server using a GUI is a blatant waste of resources IMO.
 
mashie said:
Lol, it's a laptop, not a tablet. Also I only have touch screens on telephones. These are after all productivity tools.

And yes everything works.
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I looked online and it showed a convertible laptop, isn't that what you machine is?
 
Mega6 said:
So you think, until you can't find that old nic driver you need (or whatever) and it's been dropped from the kernel.. . OR that new WiFi driver that isn't in the kernel yet. These are not "2003" issues. Even adding or deleteting repositories is beyond the scope of the average user.
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Only if you're using Realtek devices, I avoid Realtek under Windows as their products are cheap garbage.

Adding a repository is copy/paste in most cases.
 
GhostCow said:
No one wants to use the terminal except giant nerds. Normal users and power users shouldn't even have to know it exists
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I cannot say I agree with this because there are things out there, like Cisco devices, that set things up via a command line. A normal user should not have to know that but, a power user should know about it. (Think CMD and Powershell.)
 
GhostCow said:
No one wants to use the terminal except giant nerds. Normal users and power users shouldn't even have to know it exists
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MS and Apple both disagree with you. MS has even named their terminal alternate powershell. ;)

The terminal is still the fastest way to accomplish a great many things. The biggest crime MS has ever perpetrated on computer users was the devaluation of their terminal prompt.
 
Mazzspeed said:
If you can't use a terminal I question the term 'power user'. Personally, the idea of administering a server using a GUI is a blatant waste of resources IMO.
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Where did I say that I can't use the terminal? I said I shouldn't have to. I already stated in this thread that I'm advanced enough to install Arch myself.
 
ManofGod said:
I cannot say I agree with this because there are things out there, like Cisco devices, that set things up via a command line. A normal user should not have to know that but, a power user should know about it. (Think CMD and Powershell.)
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Sysadmins yes, power users no. We probably have a different definition of power user
 
Mazzspeed said:
Not really, when you blindly disregard legitimate points of argument, that highlights an obvious level of bias.
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See? Personal, told you so. :D ;) :) You claim a level of bias because I do not agree with you and that is your point of view but me? I based my opinions on just the way things are and I have personal preferences for my machines that I do not push on customers or others, if they already know what they want or what works best for them. (Case in point, I will always and only use AMD hardware in my personal builds but, I do not push an agenda onto other computer users since they may not want that or the objective may be better with something other than AMD hardware.)
 
GhostCow said:
Where did I say that I can't use the terminal? I said I shouldn't have to. I already stated in this thread that I'm advanced enough to install Arch myself.
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Why shouldn't you have to? You need terminal under MacOS once you get past the very basics and people seem to cope just fine. There is no prerequesite for every OS to mimic Windows and there are advantages to installing software via terminal. Furthermore, it's not a difficult process.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Only if you're using Realtek devices, I avoid Realtek under Windows as their products are cheap garbage.

Adding a repository is copy/paste in most cases.
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And that is the fault of the hardware company, not the OS's, just as an FYI
 
ManofGod said:
See? Personal, told you so. :D ;) :) You claim a level of bias because I do not agree with you and that is your point of view but me? I based my opinions on just the way things are and I have personal preferences for my machines that I do not push on customers or others, if they already know what they want or what works best for them. (Case in point, I will always and only use AMD hardware in my personal builds but, I do not push an agenda onto other computer users since they may not want that or the objective may be better with something other than AMD hardware.)
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ManOfGod, with all due respect - Not interested. Drop it, you're clutching at straws.
 
Mega6 said:
You're nitpicking on one particular vendor and that's not how it works and you know it.
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I haven't compiled a driver in around eight years, that's the honest truth and I know it. Generally speaking, things just work.
 
On the hate for the terminal... think of it this way.

If your grandmother calls and is trying to do something like say a specific update... how do you walk her through that. Click here click there... read that screen to me... what does it say... no no grandma do you see X or Y. NO oh do you see Z... oh my.... hmmmm.... I'll have to look next time I'm there. Sure ya grandma I'll pop by this afternoon.

Would it not be easier to say.... click on show all programs. Type terminal and click on that icon.
Ok now grandma.
Type
sudo apt update and hit return
Type in your password grandma... yes we set it up remember 123456
now type
sudo apt upgrade and hit return

The terminal makes phone support actually possible. Average users don't need to know its even there, but most average users are capable of using it for basic and even non basic things. We used to live in a world where computer users knew how navigate MS-DOS.... and basic Linux terminal use is not any more difficult and much more powerful.
 
ChadD said:
On the hate for the terminal... think of it this way.

If your grandmother calls and is trying to do something like say a specific update... how do you walk her through that. Click here click there... read that screen to me... what does it say... no no grandma do you see X or Y. NO oh do you see Z... oh my.... hmmmm.... I'll have to look next time I'm there. Sure ya grandma I'll pop by this afternoon.

Would it not be easier to say.... click on show all programs. Type terminal and click on that icon.
Ok now grandma.
Type
sudo apt update and hit return
Type in your password grandma... yes we set it up remember 123456
now type
sudo apt upgrade and hit return

The terminal makes phone support actually possible. Average users don't need to know its even there, but most average users are capable of using it for basic and even non basic things. We used to live in a world where computer users knew how navigate MS-DOS.... and basic Linux terminal use is not any more difficult and much more powerful.
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Under KDE Neon sudo apt upgrade is a step that's performed automatically, so all you have to do is add the repo and install the software. ;)

I by far prefer terminal as I can see in real time 'exactly' what's happening in relation to software installation. No requester box GUI's flashing up on the screen and then disappearing for two minutes or more leaving me wondering just what the hell is going on.
 
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Mazzspeed said:
ManOfGod, with all due respect - Not interested. Drop it, you're clutching at straws.
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Then let it go, you are interested since you entered this thread to discuss Windows to Linux, will you switch? Sorry but no, I do not let something go just because you do not agree with my take on it and that is fine. You do not have to agree with me with my take on operating systems, that is just fine and we should not all think alike. But, if you are going to call me out, you cannot expect me to simply ignore it just because you want me too.

Oh well, guess my point on how I see operating systems and hardware is not something that you can articulate except to claim that I am biased.

Also, I cannot agree because I do not find realtek hardware to be cheap garbage, at all. All three of my primary systems run a realtek audio setup and all 3 work extremely well.
 
DogsofJune said:
Say what? You've never used the command line in Windows?
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Not really. Only to ping an ip address or check ipconfig. Maybe to do something you're not supposed to do like disabling UAC or something. Certainly nothing like what Linux expects.


Mazzspeed said:
Why shouldn't you have to? You need terminal under MacOS once you get past the very basics and people seem to cope just fine. There is no prerequesite for every OS to mimic Windows and there are advantages to installing software via terminal. Furthermore, it's not a difficult process.
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Because it takes longer and it's a bigger expense of energy. It takes more time and effort to open the command window and type in a string of commands than it does to do a couple of clicks in a GUI. Especially when it comes to software installation. There probably are a couple of things that are faster to do in a terminal, but those aren't things I've ever had to do.
 
ManofGod said:
Then let it go, you are interested since you entered this thread to discuss Windows to Linux, will you switch? Sorry but no, I do not let something go just because you do not agree with my take on it and that is fine. You do not have to agree with me with my take on operating systems, that is just fine and we should not all think alike. But, if you are going to call me out, you cannot expect me to simply ignore it just because you want me too.

Oh well, guess my point on how I see operating systems and hardware is not something that you can articulate except to claim that I am biased.

Also, I cannot agree because I do not find realtek hardware to be cheap garbage, at all. All three of my primary systems run a realtek audio setup and all 3 work extremely well.
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And yet Realtek hardware is still cheap garbage. Given a choice I'll use Intel hardware over Realtek hardware any day, even Intel sound codecs perform better in my experience.
 
ChadD said:
On the hate for the terminal... think of it this way.

If your grandmother calls and is trying to do something like say a specific update... how do you walk her through that. Click here click there... read that screen to me... what does it say... no no grandma do you see X or Y. NO oh do you see Z... oh my.... hmmmm.... I'll have to look next time I'm there. Sure ya grandma I'll pop by this afternoon.

Would it not be easier to say.... click on show all programs. Type terminal and click on that icon.
Ok now grandma.
Type
sudo apt update and hit return
Type in your password grandma... yes we set it up remember 123456
now type
sudo apt upgrade and hit return

The terminal makes phone support actually possible. Average users don't need to know its even there, but most average users are capable of using it for basic and even non basic things. We used to live in a world where computer users knew how navigate MS-DOS.... and basic Linux terminal use is not any more difficult and much more powerful.
Click to expand...

LOL! Yeah, I can see that grandma mistypes something, it says syntax error or command not found, you ask her what she typed wrong and she does not know, you say I will stop by this afternoon to see what is going on. :D I personally do not have a hate for any sort of computer interface but, the MS-DOS world usually had written step by step directions to follow in front of them and at least in part, is why Windows 3.1 became popular as well as Windows 95, clicking things were easier for most folks.
 
GhostCow said:
Because it takes longer and it's a bigger expense of energy. It takes more time and effect to open the command window and type in a string of commands than it does to do a couple of clicks in a GUI. Especially when it comes to software installation. There probably are a couple of things that are faster to do in a terminal, but those aren't things I've ever had to do.
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Using the installation of Nvidia drivers as an example comparing the process under Windows vs the process under Linux using either the PPA method or the AUR, the process is actually far less involved under Linux than under Windows with it's GUI.

As I stated earlier, managing servers via a GUI is vastly inefficient.
 
ManofGod said:
LOL! Yeah, I can see that grandma mistypes something, it says syntax error or command not found, you ask her what she typed wrong and she does not know, you say I will stop by this afternoon to see what is going on. :D I personally do not have a hate for any sort of computer interface but, the MS-DOS world usually had written step by step directions to follow in front of them and at least in part, is why Windows 3.1 became popular as well as Windows 95, clicking things were easier for most folks.
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Send her an email, tell her to copy/paste.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I haven't compiled a driver in around eight years, that's the honest truth and I know it. Generally speaking, things just work.
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Maybe that the way it works for you but that's not my experience. I wish I lived in your computer world where "things just work". I have yet to meet a computer with an OS and software like that.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Using the installation of Nvidia drivers as an example comparing the process under Windows vs the process under Linux using either the PPA method or the AUR, the process is actually far less involved under Linux than under Windows with it's GUI.

As I stated earlier, managing servers via a GUI is vastly inefficient.
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How do you get less involved than double clicking an exe and then clicking next three or four times? Adding the PPA alone is already more work than that and over most people's heads
 
Mega6 said:
Maybe that the way it works for you but that's not my experience. I wish I lived in your computer world where "things just work". I have yet to meet a computer with an OS and software like that.
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I'm sorry you've had such bad luck. I install software using package managers like most modern Linux users do and I experience no problems.

To state otherwise would be an outright lie.

GhostCow said:
How do you get less involved than double clicking an exe and then clicking next three or four times? That's already less involved than just adding the PPA
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No, it's not.

The process under WIndows:

- Navigate to the Nvidia site.
- Navigate to the download page.
- Enter graphics card details as half the time auto detection just doesn't work. Quite a few clicks involved there.
- Click download and agree.
- Double click installer.
- Next > Next > Agree > Next > OK > Finish.

The process under an *buntu based distro:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
sudo apt update (not necessary on all distro's)
sudo apt install nvidia-driver-xxx

From that point on drivers automatically update 'if you want them to' as you maintain complete control over your OS and can even be installed via the GUI under most operating systems without navigating to the Nvidia site at all.
 
ManofGod said:
LOL! Yeah, I can see that grandma mistypes something, it says syntax error or command not found, you ask her what she typed wrong and she does not know, you say I will stop by this afternoon to see what is going on. :D I personally do not have a hate for any sort of computer interface but, the MS-DOS world usually had written step by step directions to follow in front of them and at least in part, is why Windows 3.1 became popular as well as Windows 95, clicking things were easier for most folks.
Click to expand...

IME everyone I knew preferred text.... but I could be an oddity. My mother is a computer programmer... my grandfather was as well having worked with Unix and even older stuff, both my mothers brothers where system admins. Ok my experience may not be average... still I will take an interface that lets me say push S now push U now push D and now O... over trying to figure out WTF someone is looking at on a screen. lol

MS again agrees with me... just hit up the MS support forums and tell me how many simple fix issues they suggest firing up a command prompt or powershell for. (its basically all of them) its the easiest way to do over the phone support. :)
 
GhostCow said:
How do you get less involved than double clicking an exe and then clicking next three or four times? Adding the PPA alone is already more work than that and over most people's heads
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Good grief. Computin is hard....
 
Mazzspeed said:
I'm sorry you've had such bad luck. I install software using package managers like most modern Linux users do and I experience no problems.

To state otherwise would be an outright lie.



No, it's not.

The process under WIndows:

- Navigate to the Nvidia site.
- Navigate to the download page.
- Enter graphics card details as half the time auto detection just doesn't work. Quite a few clicks involved there.
- Click download and agree.
- Double click installer.
- Next > Next > Agree > Next > OK > Finish.

The process under an *buntu based distro:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa
sudo apt update (not necessary on all distro's)
sudo apt install nvidia-driver-xxx

From that point on drivers automatically update 'if you want them to' as you maintain complete control over your OS and can even be installed via the GUI under most operating systems without navigating to the Nvidia site at all.
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Most users are going to spend more time looking up those commands than they are going to the Nvidia site.
 
GhostCow said:
Most users are going to spend more time looking up those commands than they are going to the Nvidia site.
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No they're not, I just supplied them. Copy/paste. If you need to find the PPA manually to add the commands there's still less clicks involved then the same process under Windows. Remember, average plebs that make up the bulk of the Windows user base cannot install software let alone hardware drivers so it's a moot point.

Another great feature of Linux is to copy/paste you just highlight text (no right click needed), go to the terminal window and click the center mouse button to paste - Very simple, very efficient.
 
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