Surface Book

6-8 fucking weeks to get one? WTF?

Anyways I went to the Microsoft Store today @ Lenox Square Mall in Buckhead/Atlanta, GA

And it is a extremely nice machine. I can't wait to own one. Just not sure about the whole discreet GPU thing as being even relatively worth the money. If it is on par with a damn IRIS Pro then they can keep that shit.
 
And it is a extremely nice machine. I can't wait to own one. Just not sure about the whole discreet GPU thing as being even relatively worth the money. If it is on par with a damn IRIS Pro then they can keep that shit.

I'm thinking that there has to be some advantage to the discrete GPU over Iris. Just one I'm thinking are thermals. Having the GPU and CPU heat separated should allow for less throttling. Not sure that would be possible with Iris.
 
Been going back and forth on getting an SP4 vs the Book but that new config pushed me over the edge, I went for the 128GB with dGPU.

I do not expect this to be a gaming powerhouse but the dGPU will certainly be nice to have for acceleration in Photoshop
 
Been going back and forth on getting an SP4 vs the Book but that new config pushed me over the edge, I went for the 128GB with dGPU.

Congrats! That did seem like an odd config to have left out from the beginning. I have a feeling that it could be the most popular one.
 
128GB SSD internally is all you really need for day to day operations.

Add on a samsung USB 3.0 SSD http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Porta...445400969&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+usb+3.0+ssd

For all your gaming or bulk storage large program needs.

Also, and I could be wrong, but windows 7 took like a whopping 30+ GB in some cases freshly installed. If I am correct windows 10 takes around 11GB full install 64 bit? So even with full blown Office 365 installed your at what ... 15GB used... that leaves A LOT of space for the remaining 128GB Solid State disk for a few more installs of software and files. Keep all your bulk crap on the external hard drive/ssd and music can stay on the internet i.e. Owncloud like I do and stream it to my devices from my own NAS.
 
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128GB SSD internally is all you really need for day to day operations.

Add on a samsung USB 3.0 SSD http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Porta...445400969&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+usb+3.0+ssd

For all your gaming or bulk storage large program needs.

Also, and I could be wrong, but windows 7 took like a whopping 30+ GB in some cases freshly installed. If I am correct windows 10 takes around 11GB full install 64 bit? So even with full blown Office 365 installed your at what ... 15GB used... that leaves A LOT of space for the remaining 128GB Solid State disk for a few more installs of software and files. Keep all your bulk crap on the external hard drive/ssd and music can stay on the internet i.e. Owncloud like I do and stream it to my devices from my own NAS.

I have 128GB of storage on my phone .... I would hate to have only that much on my laptop. 256GB is absolute minimum for me. I have 512 on my 2 year old laptop.
 
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Looks like NDA has lifted on reviews. So far seeing them from Ars, Paul Thurrott, and tested.com.
 
Don't see book on anand yet, only sp4. Hopefully, they are really pushing the surface book.
 
Overall looks like pretty decent reviews. The dGPU performance is a bit disappointing.

Where are you seeing numbers for the dGPU? All I saw in these reviews so far are numbers for the iGPU. Thurrott got both models in but hasn't said anything about the i7 dGPU version yet.

Read over The Verge's review, they tend to be pretty harsh on Microsoft. The only things they were negative about were the top heaviness which causes some wobbling they said and gap left by the hinge which allows they say gets the screen dirtier. We it is a touch screen, you kind of have to clean those frequently.

But even for The Verge they gave props for the keyboard, screen, track pad and the battery life is great, over the 12 hours Microsoft speced. Which makes a little sense as the iGPU versions probably get better battery than the dGPU versions and the battery life I'm assuming was based on the dGPU versions.
 
Where are you seeing numbers for the dGPU? All I saw in these reviews so far are numbers for the iGPU. Thurrott got both models in but hasn't said anything about the i7 dGPU version yet.

Read over The Verge's review, they tend to be pretty harsh on Microsoft. The only things they were negative about were the top heaviness which causes some wobbling they said and gap left by the hinge which allows they say gets the screen dirtier. We it is a touch screen, you kind of have to clean those frequently.

But even for The Verge they gave props for the keyboard, screen, track pad and the battery life is great, over the 12 hours Microsoft speced. Which makes a little sense as the iGPU versions probably get better battery than the dGPU versions and the battery life I'm assuming was based on the dGPU versions.

Most of the reviews I read had the iGPU and the dGPU. Both Anandtech and Arstechnica had both units reviewed. Overall it was hit or miss. Sometimes it was double the performance, sometimes it was barely ahead at all, sometimes it was only 20%. Overall it wasn't leaps and bounds and didn't seem to make a huge difference in the quality you could play games at. It seems like they have some driver issues to work out.

Also something interesting from the Ars review I hadn't thought about. The gap design allows the keys to have more travel. They didn't need to sink the keys into the base to avoid the screen.
 
Most of the reviews I read had the iGPU and the dGPU. Both Anandtech and Arstechnica had both units reviewed. Overall it was hit or miss. Sometimes it was double the performance, sometimes it was barely ahead at all, sometimes it was only 20%. Overall it wasn't leaps and bounds and didn't seem to make a huge difference in the quality you could play games at. It seems like they have some driver issues to work out.

Thanks. Just saw the Ars review and saw that. Looks like it could be a driver issue. But when the dGPU does kick in it looks to provide a good boot over the iGPU.

Also something interesting from the Ars review I hadn't thought about. The gap design allows the keys to have more travel. They didn't need to sink the keys into the base to avoid the screen.

Good observation. Not really sure if I buy some of the arguments with the hinge. Dirt and dust and stuff falling into the gap? Not sure how some pack and store expensive devices but I would hope better than what this sounds like.
 
I carry my xps 13 inside a padded sleeve case that is then inside my messenger bag. I don't know how you carry expensive devices but I sure don't go lugging around a padded suitcase.

These are going to be carried inside a zipped sleeve case, hard cover magnetic case like the SP, or in a messenger bag or backpack.

The design is functional and it was a great observation about the key travel, but in all honesty the gap will allow things, I. E. Paper clips, business cards, cables, and other smallish items in there that may be floating around your bag. Not a huge deal, but one that could have been better implemented if they thought about it.
 
I carry my xps 13 inside a padded sleeve case that is then inside my messenger bag. I don't know how you carry expensive devices but I sure don't go lugging around a padded suitcase.

These are going to be carried inside a zipped sleeve case, hard cover magnetic case like the SP, or in a messenger bag or backpack.

The design is functional and it was a great observation about the key travel, but in all honesty the gap will allow things, I. E. Paper clips, business cards, cables, and other smallish items in there that may be floating around your bag. Not a huge deal, but one that could have been better implemented if they thought about it.

Most decent bags and packs have a separate compartment for laptops that's isolated from the rest of the interior the very purpose of not letting random stuff get around the laptop. And they tend to padded as well. It's not like a paper business card getting on that gap would do anything, nor reasonable amounts of dust that get into any laptop unless it's hermetically sealed. With normal and reasonable care I just don't see the issue. Unless people are packing razor blades in with their laptop.
 
Looking like MS knocked it out of the park with the screens on these things. The SP3 has, IMO, a great screen already, can't wait to see PixelSense.
 
Uggh its the F'ing price thats hurting my "Buy now" finger action motion.

Yeah the price is tough to swallow. I'm basically leaning towards either a XPS 13 or 15 at this point since I just can't justify the cost for an 'on the side' laptop (but I do want a nice screen). I'm still planning on playing with one of these in a store asap.
 
What do you think of the book vs the XPS 15?
At the top end, the configurations seem pretty similar, but the XPS is about $1000 cheaper.
Of course the book can also be a tablet and has the pen...

By the way, is the pen digitizer on the surface book something that other laptops don't do? Like the touchscreen XPS systems for example. Because having a wacom like pen input would be really nice for working in photoshop...
 
What do you think of the book vs the XPS 15?
At the top end, the configurations seem pretty similar, but the XPS is about $1000 cheaper.
Of course the book can also be a tablet and has the pen...

And discrete GPU. The mileage will vary but you can get some bars boosts with certain tasks.

By the way, is the pen digitizer on the surface book something that other laptops don't do? Like the touchscreen XPS systems for example. Because having a wacom like pen input would be really nice for working in photoshop...

The digital pen on the Surface line isn't unique but it is considered very good, on level with Wacom pens.
 
The XPS also has a discrete GPU does it not? I don't know how they compare though.
 
The XPS also has a discrete GPU does it not? I don't know how they compare though.

The XPS has not only a dGPU but a better GPU and a better CPU. If all you want is a laptop, the XPS 13 and XPS 15 are much better options. The 13 is lighter, most of the performance (doesn't have dGPU), and gets as good or better battery life. The 15 is slightly heavier but has much better specs. Both are significantly cheaper than the Surface book when similarly specced. All in all, only get the surface book if you want its unique features.
 
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The XPS has not only a dGPU but a better GPU and a better CPU. If all you want is a laptop, the XPS 13 and XPS 15 are much better options. The 13 is lighter, most of the performance (doesn't have dGPU), and gets as good or better battery life. The 15 is slightly heavier but has much better specs. Both are significantly cheaper than the Surface book when similarly specced. All in all, only get the surface book if you want its unique features.

Thanks. Yeah, the surface book looks like a very very nice machine, and I really dig the style, but I really need maximum performance for 4k video editing, after fx, and heavy photoshop processing.
So I guess the XPS will be much more suitable for my needs.
I did get quite excited about the idea of being able to use the pen for photo editing on the surface book.. but I guess I can't have everything.
 
The XPS has not only a dGPU but a better GPU and a better CPU. If all you want is a laptop, the XPS 13 and XPS 15 are much better options. The 13 is lighter, most of the performance (doesn't have dGPU), and gets as good or better battery life. The 15 is slightly heavier but has much better specs. Both are significantly cheaper than the Surface book when similarly specced. All in all, only get the surface book if you want its unique features.

I would agree. If one doesn't plan on using a Surface as a tablet some decent percentage of the time then just get a conventional laptop. I think that's some thing that is a bit problematic for the Surface Book which bills itself as the ultimate laptop. In the 13" ultraportable space it's certainly up at the top. But the high price is due mostly to the hybrid design and I've seen a number of reviewers say they wish Microsoft would just make a conventional laptop with the quality of the Surface Book without the hybrid design as to lower the cost for features they aren't going to use.

And the reasoning does make sense but such a product would be much more problematic for Microsoft's OEMs that are at least some what willing to put up with an exotic and expensive PC line.
 
Thanks. Yeah, the surface book looks like a very very nice machine, and I really dig the style, but I really need maximum performance for 4k video editing, after fx, and heavy photoshop processing..

Why a laptop? Get a desktop with a 6 core Intel processor and it will absolutel R A P E the fastest laptop money can buy.
 
Why a laptop? Get a desktop with a 6 core Intel processor and it will absolutel R A P E the fastest laptop money can buy.

Yes I know, and that's what I'm using now, but I'm going to be travelling indefinitely in the near future, so I need to basically have a completely mobile solution that is still powerful enough to do this kind of work on the road.
 
Yes I know, and that's what I'm using now, but I'm going to be travelling indefinitely in the near future, so I need to basically have a completely mobile solution that is still powerful enough to do this kind of work on the road.

Not to divert attention from the Surface Pro but the Dell XPS 15 has some great specs for less money than the Microsoft part.

Also this badboy is absolute power in a mobile shell....

This might be worth more to you in raw horsepower than a mediocre mobile processor based machine like the Surface Pro/Book or Dell XPS or whatever else...

https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/deimos1615s.php
 
Not to divert attention from the Surface Pro but the Dell XPS 15 has some great specs for less money than the Microsoft part.

Also this badboy is absolute power in a mobile shell....

This might be worth more to you in raw horsepower than a mediocre mobile processor based machine like the Surface Pro/Book or Dell XPS or whatever else...

https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/deimos1615s.php

The XPS 15 is a Quad Core mobile i7. That is going to be very close to the performance of the desktop parts for most use cases. It is also half the size of that machine and probably quadruple the battery life. Not really comparable at all.

Surface Book is going to be even less than half the size and still not a slouch in performance either. Very few people really need laptops of that type. IMO you are better off carting around an SFF than getting one of those laptops.
 
Not to divert attention from the Surface Pro but the Dell XPS 15 has some great specs for less money than the Microsoft part.

Also this badboy is absolute power in a mobile shell....

This might be worth more to you in raw horsepower than a mediocre mobile processor based machine like the Surface Pro/Book or Dell XPS or whatever else...

https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/deimos1615s.php

I continue to be impressed with Dell since they chose to go private a while back. Quality has gone up considerably on the high-end, consumer side of things. XPS 13 and 15 Skylake are going to be the pro-sumer laptops to beat.
 
Not to divert attention from the Surface Pro but the Dell XPS 15 has some great specs for less money than the Microsoft part.

But the thing to remember is that the Surface Book is a hybrid. That's why it's more expensive than a conventional laptop and why at least some people will buy it a its price. I'll personally probably never buy a conventional laptop ever again. I know that puts me in a niche but that niche is growing pretty rapidly.

When Tablet PCs were lauded 13 tears ago I envisioned a time not to far off when most laptops would be hybrid devices. Obviously I was wrong then but as hardware and software have advanced and prices have come down (the Surface Book is at the very high end of the hybrid price scale these days, most are cheaper, some MUCH cheaper) I think that the hybrid market will be very substantial.

At some point it is inevitable that Apple is going to get in the hybrid game. the iPad Pro was something of a baby step in that direction. Once Apple gets into this market in earnest I'd expect a good deal of growth.
 
What do you think of the book vs the XPS 15?
At the top end, the configurations seem pretty similar, but the XPS is about $1000 cheaper.
Of course the book can also be a tablet and has the pen...

By the way, is the pen digitizer on the surface book something that other laptops don't do? Like the touchscreen XPS systems for example. Because having a wacom like pen input would be really nice for working in photoshop...

The XPS also has a quadcore vs a dualcore. It's a more powerfull system, if you need the top end Book, then the XPS 15 is a better option imo. I'm going to switch to desktop+ i5 Surface book (with or without GPU depending on which one it actually is) from full spec 2014 XPS15.
Edit: I mainly use photo and video editing software and take a lot of notes to write down idea's.
 
One thing Dell failed to do is to include the PCIe SSD. Apple did it, Microsoft also did it. They always cut corners somewhere. Would not get one.

Correction: Seems like they have an option for the PCIe SSD.
 
Okay, so I had reservations but I got some hands on time with an i7 with discrete GPU model at the Microsoft store today.

Keyboard action felt excellent. Trackpad was smooth and responsive. Performance with web browsing and launching apps was seemless and instantaneous both in laptop and tablet mode without a hint of lag.

The screen wobbles a bit in laptop mode when the touch screen is used. Store rep assured me that this is because the hing on their demo was broken (already?) and that the unit did not behave that way when it first arrived.

I had a Lenovo Yoga 3 in my hands yesterday in stead of a Yoga 900 which is not in stores yet. Compared to the Yoga, the Surface Book annihilates the Yoga as a tablet. It also is a significantly better tablet than my iPad. Much better. It is like having a giant windows 10 PC in your hands. It feels great as a tablet docked and undocked. Performance was excellent both ways. Web sites looked absolutely gorgeous and the browsing experience on the screen was better than the Yoga. I prefer the Surface's aspect ratio it felt more natural and ergonomic. The screen is up there with some of the best IPS displays I have seen. I could have played with it for hours.

Docking and undocking was not that easy. I did not find it intuitive and I actually failed to dock it fully a few times. Flipping it around and redocking it is not as big of a deal however as I expected and the extra work and awkwardness involved to flip the screen and redock to get it into tablet mode is worth it when you consider how much more ergonomic the unit is than the Yoga. The keys on the back of the tablet on the Yoga were annoying whereas the Surface Book just feels great in hand.

There are a few issues. The unit is a bit top heavy and it is not balanced like a traditional notebook. It might make for a strange laptop experience in bed. There is some wobble. Also, the hing does not bend back very far at all when in laptop mode. It made for a less than ideal viewing angle while standing although viewing angle on the display panel itself was excellent. The good viewing angle on the display will mitigate this issue to some degree.

Frankly, I do not believe the unit is all that attractive when docked. The hinge is a bit unsightly and pretentious looking.

There is no LTE or cellular connectivity on board. I am not happy about that it undermines its usefulness and portability.

This unit will replace both my laptop and my ipad. However, it is a better tablet than iPad, but probably not a better laptop than some dedicated laptops because of the price, weight distribution, angle of the hing, and the screen wobble.

This product is not perfect. But it is better than the competition and in some ways it has no competition. The mac machine do not have touch screens. The Dell has no tablet mode and the Yoga doesn't do tablet as well. At the end of the day, it is the tablet mode that swings things in its favor. It is really an impressive, giant tablet that is a pleasure to use. The only compromise made on the tablet is battery life. Everything else is absolutely first rate in tablet mode.

The other issue is that docking system and hing. I have concerns about its longevity. I have concerns that it will develop wobble over time. It is not a tried and true design.

Finally, the price is brutal, but it does replace two devices. It will be painful when they improve this machine next year after investing all that money. I am getting the i7 with 256 storage and the GPU although I have no need for a GPU. I probably shouldn't even get the GPU because it is the first thing to break on a laptop. You can't game on a laptop like this I don't care what the benchmark says, that heat is destroying the machine.

The other problem is not enough ram for the price 8 gb is really not enough for that money. The 16 is outrageously expensive. Other machines get you 16 cheaper but they don't do what this does.

That is my story. I am either going to love this thing or hate it. It will be my first touchscreen PC.
 
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Does anyone know if the dGPU stays active while the surface book is in reverse I.E the screen docked but in tablet mode with the keyboard non-functional?
 
Does anyone know if the dGPU stays active while the surface book is in reverse I.E the screen docked but in tablet mode with the keyboard non-functional?

Yes, absolutely that is the whole point of docking it that way. You get the full battery and GPU power when you flip it. That is how they explained it at the press conference.
 
Not to divert attention from the Surface Pro but the Dell XPS 15 has some great specs for less money than the Microsoft part.

Also this badboy is absolute power in a mobile shell....

This might be worth more to you in raw horsepower than a mediocre mobile processor based machine like the Surface Pro/Book or Dell XPS or whatever else...

https://www.mythlogic.com/2015_Models/deimos1615s.php

Wow! That is a serious machine! I was not even aware of this company.
But, it also weighs more than 3.5kg! and only has 2 hrs battery life...
I'll keep it under consideration, but the XPS might be enough for me.
Anyway, thanks for the tip!
 
The XPS also has a quadcore vs a dualcore. It's a more powerfull system, if you need the top end Book, then the XPS 15 is a better option imo. I'm going to switch to desktop+ i5 Surface book (with or without GPU depending on which one it actually is) from full spec 2014 XPS15.
Edit: I mainly use photo and video editing software and take a lot of notes to write down idea's.

Yeah, if I didn't need a system for video and photo editing, I would definitely go for the surface book, but its just too expensive in the configuration I need (16gb model). At the high end, the XPS seems much better value.

Also, the screen wobble issue could be a problem.
 
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