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STL's New Computer - Final Spec

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STL

Supreme [H]ardness
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Oct 20, 2001
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4,313
I'm building a new computer before I graduate, and this is (hopefully) the final spec. I'm pretty sure I won't have any compatibility problems, but I'm posting the spec so everyone can look it over and scream at me if I'm doing something really stupid.

(For example, I was going to use the GA-8KNXP Ultra Rev 2.0's onboard SCSI to do SCSI RAID-1, until a friend got that board and tried to boot from non-RAID SCSI, and had horrible driver problems doing so. He ended up booting from IDE.)

I think my biggest worry right now is making sure that the SCSI RAID-1 takes boot priority over the SATA RAID-5.

The general gist of this computer is a Prescott-3.4 with 4GB DDR400, booting from SCSI RAID-1 with a 1.6 TB SATA RAID-5 mass storage array. It lives in a new PC-76 with lots of fans and is attached to dual 21" CRTs.

I've bought about $1000 of this already (the case, fans, etc.) and about $2000 is being carried over from my current computer. I'm waiting until the Prescott-3.4 is released to buy the real goodies.

$469 - Prescott-3.4 - http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...ore_Code=M&Product_Code=120150&AFFIL=FRG&NR=1
$198 - Gigabyte GA-8KNXP Rev 2.0 - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...128-185&catalog=280&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0
$1120 - 2x 2GB Corsair DDR400 TWINX2048-3200 - http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-486&DEPA=0
$400 - ASUS GFFX 5950 Ultra - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-165&catalog=48&depa=0
$239 - Enermax EG851AX-VH (W) FM - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-103-438&catalog=58&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0
$366.78 - New Lian Li PC-76 - http://www.sundialmicro.com/cgi-bin/sundial/pc76.html
$42.44 - Lian Li PC-7x Silver Window Side Panel - http://www.so-trickcomputers.com/Me...en=PROD&Product_Code=LL75WS&Category_Code=LLC
$147 - Netgear GS108 - http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProdu...catalog=30&manufactory=1233&description=gs108
$176 - Plextor Black PX-708A Retail - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...7-131-311&catalog=5&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0
$240 - 3x Pioneer Silver DVD-120S - http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=127
$89.50 - Audigy 2 ZS - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-102-162&catalog=57&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0
$1752 - 8x 250GB WD2500JD - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=HDWD112&dept_id=06-002
$1120 - 2x 73GB 15k.3 - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=HDSE306&dept_id=06-005
$475 - 3ware Escalade 8506-8 SATA RAID Controller [includes 8x SATA cables] - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=CT3W119&dept_id=13-005
$209 - Adaptec 29320-R - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=CTAD205&dept_id=13-003
$29 - 4-position twisted-to-flat SCSI cable - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=CAHM205&dept_id=01-002
$6 - 2x IDE cables - http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=CAHM104&dept_id=01-006
$50 - 2x HD Brackets (3 Drives In 2 Optical Bays) - http://www.rackmountpro.com/productpage.cfm?prodid=1337
$37.48 - 100x A14385-ND [Connector]
$11.61 - 100x A25438-ND [End Cover]
$12.03 - 100x A25439-ND [Thru Cover]
$43.80 - MCX4000
$45 - 4x Vantec Tornado 92x38mm TD9238H Fans - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/van92tor.html
$118.65 - 7x Delta 80x38mm FFB0812EHE Fans - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/del80ffb08123.html
$74.85 - 3x Delta 120x38mm FFB1212EHE Fans - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/delffb1212eh.html
$10 - 4x Gold 92mm Fan Grilles - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/92golfanguar.html
$17.50 - 7x Gold 80mm Fan Grilles - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/80golfanguar.html
$7.50 - 3x Gold 120mm Fan Grilles - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/12golgril.html
$5 - 100 Black Fan Screws - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/100blacfansc.html
$5 - 100 Chrome Fan Screws - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/100chfansc.html
$7.95 - Arctic Silver 5 - http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/arcticsilver5.html
$8.89 - ARISTA 18-315 10 Foot 3.5mm Headphone Extension Cable
$11 - 2x 120mm Aluminum Fan Filters - http://www.directron.com/cr235nd.html
$34 - 2x Blue, 2x Red 12" Sunbeam Cold Cathode Lights (Dual Inverter) - http://www.directron.com/dualkit.html
$12 - 6x Three T-Shaped Molex Connector Extension Cables - http://www.directron.com/tide.html
$1508.38 - 2x Sony CPD-G520P
$66.98 - Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro USB
$40 - Microsoft Hovermouse Explorer 3.0
$390 - Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Speakers

Comments:
I specifically want the highest-end Prescott, and not an Extreme Edition.
I'll upgrade to NV40 or NV45 when it comes out.
There is an old PC-76 (the one reviewed by Dan's Data), so I made sure to get the new one.
I'll upgrade to the PX-712SA when it becomes available.
The original Audigy has treated me well. Yes, people say bad things about Creative. No, I don't feel like switching until Creative gives me problems.
The Axxxxx-ND are right-angled Molex connectors from Digi-Key. They rock.
I bought a few extra fans (only need one 92, six 80s, two 120s). I ended up using the chrome fan screws.
I'll need one fan filter for the top intake of the new PC-76. The right-angled molex connectors will go on the extension cables; I'm not quite confident enough to stick them on my PSU wires.

The total cost of the computer will be about $10,000 (yeesh).

The machine will boot XP Pro. Earlier versions of my spec tried to use a mix of non-PCI-saturating SATA and IDE with software RAID-5, until I found that only Windows Server 2003 does that. I eventually gave up and resorted to PCI-saturating hardware RAID-5, and then figured out how to cram 20 hard drives in a single machine. The whole PCI thing bugs me, but I can't do anything about it (I can't wait the year or longer it'll take for PCI Express mobos and RAID cards to be released).

Aside from upgrading the video card and DVD burner, the computer has room for a second SATA RAID-5 array of 8 drives. Thanks to the special HD brackets, I even have space for 2 further drives (perhaps ICH5R SATA RAID-1).

To install the second array I would have to remove two of the DVD-120S opticals.

With current technology I can put about 3.2 TB in the machine (just add a second array identical to the first). The ultimate storage capacity of the machine is 6 TB (achieved with three 8506-8's and 400+ GB drives, when they come out). When I add a second array, I can transfer the first array's contents over, and then replace those drives. It may be possible to have even more storage, assuming even larger drives come out in the future, and 3ware produces a PCI-33-compatible card without a 2TB limit. However, I figure that by the time I exhaust 3.2 TB, I'll be able to buy another computer with PCI-Express and who knows what.

Anyone see anything wrong with this? Yes, it's a big machine - I want to make sure it will work. (I have even worried about the current draw from the wall; I /think/ it won't trip the circuit breakers.)
 
Small penis syndrome?

Honestly are you going to need that much of a computer? and dont tell me your going to fill it up with movies...
 
[lsun22]
> so how much are you spending on that thing?

Total cost is just about $10,000. $2000 of that is stuff from my current computer (monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers). I've already bought $1000 of the new stuff; I'm waiting to buy the last $7000.

> and why are you doing it?

Development, mainly. I like having a big box, and my current computer is starting to feel slow.
 
well, i can't possibly imagine why someone would need this kinda rig.

you realize this thing is gonna sound like a jet engine with all those fans, hd's, etc.
 
I personally wouldn't get the GFFX, and I'd get a Northwood-C if you're sticking to Socket 478. Prescott is nothing byt a waste. Slower, hotter... Stick with Northwood till socket T.
 
[lsun22]
> well, i can't possibly imagine why someone would need this kinda
> rig.

People said that about my current computer too, and it turned out to be a very good decision.

> you realize this thing is gonna sound like a jet engine with all
> those fans, hd's, etc.

The fans are where the noise comes from. I currently run 3 SHEs and one EHE (all 80mm), and it's pretty loud. But I'd rather have noisy, well-cooled components than quiet, dead ones.

> oh yeah, should i ask?
> what is your current rig?

Northy-2.2A, 1GB PC800, booting from an X15-36LP 36GB and with 688GB of JBOD mass storage.

[lopoetve]
> I personally wouldn't get the GFFX

I like Nvidia.

I really wish the NV40 would be out at the same time as the Prescott-3.4, but it looks like it'll be a couple of months off. So I might just wait for the NV45.

> and I'd get a Northwood-C if you're sticking to Socket 478.
> Prescott is nothing byt a waste. Slower, hotter... Stick with
> Northwood till socket T.

I specifically want the Prescott. It's a development thing. Prescott is the future, so I need to know how my code behaves on it. I know that Northy C/HTs are somewhat faster in most current applications than equally clocked Prescotts, and that the Extreme Editions are definitely faster, but I'm bored with Northies now.
 
why not split it into two comps??


build another "server" that holds your 8 sata drives / the rest of your storage space. Also, if you do go this route buy a raidcore card.
 
> why not split it into two comps??

Then I need another case, another proc, another mobo, another PSU, yadda yadda.

It's easier just to get a huge case, a larger PSU, and some more fans.

> Also, if you do go this route buy a raidcore card.

Why are their cards better than the 3ware 8506-8?
 
Eh, for that, why not go water cooling? Unless you just LIKE noise or something, I'd go with a killer watercooling setup...
 
Originally posted by STL
> why not split it into two comps??

Then I need another case, another proc, another mobo, another PSU, yadda yadda.

It's easier just to get a huge case, a larger PSU, and some more fans.

> Also, if you do go this route buy a raidcore card.

Why are their cards better than the 3ware 8506-8?
Click to expand...

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20031114/index.html

tom's so take it with a grain of salt.

might need another PSU anyways with all the stuff in there
 
I don't have experience building water cooling (I'm incompetent with hardware; I have enough trouble installing fans). Also, leaking water over thousands of dollars worth of equipment wouldn't make me happy.

Apparently the RaidCore cards don't have a 2TB limit. However, their website said something about such a limit in 32-bit operating systems. I don't know if this applies to XP. In any event, the limit doesn't affect me yet (8x WD2500JDs = 1.6TB usable).
 
Wow, I don't know where to start.

How about this--$10,000, and you're only getting a single processor system, yet this is for developmental work?

And a lot of these purchases will go obsolete by the end of the month--in other words, by the time you receive the shipment, the motherboard, videocard, DVD burner, and hard drives will probably be succeeded by new hardware.

Why are you getting the Prescott? First of all, when the 3.4E eventually hits the market, how will you know that the motherboard can handle it? I know you must not care about the current performance level of the 3.4E with respect to the 3.4C, but what about the heat and current draw?

Why are you getting the 5950 Ultra? The NV38 core sure has its weaknesses when compared to the R360. It's not an across-the-board phenomenon, but DirectX 9 games don't seem to be a forte. Why even buy the 5950 Ultra when the R420 and NV40 series are on their way anyway?

Do you trust the rounded SCSI cables? I wouldn't. As a programmer, aren't you concerned about data integrity of your code across the cables? RAID 1 can't make up for more data transfer...which brings up another thing. The fast transfer speeds and access times of those 15k.3 drives will be thrown out the window by RAID 1.

Buying screws online...well.. Maybe you live in the desert or somewhere far from a hardware store, but something about paying 5 cents for each fucking screw seems kind've, well, wrong.

Anyways, I hope you take these suggestions to heart.
 
[xonik]
> you're only getting a single processor system

Xeons are still shackled to 533 MHz.

> And a lot of these purchases will go obsolete by the end of the
> month

That's more or less always true. My poor Northy-2.2A was obsoleted by the B's in like half a year.

> Why are you getting the Prescott?

Because it behaves differently than the Northy.

> First of all, when the 3.4E eventually hits the market, how will
> you know that the motherboard can handle it?

The 8KXNP is said to support the Prescott.

> what about the heat

With an MCX4000 and a 92mm Tornado, with a 120mm EHE blowing cold air right over it, I don't think heat will be a problem.

> and current draw?

I hope the 8KNXP supports the current draw of the 3.4.

> Why are you getting the 5950 Ultra?

I hate ATI.

> Why even buy the 5950 Ultra when the R420 and NV40 series are on
> their way anyway?

Got to buy a video card for the thing. Even a decent video card - to tide me over until the NV40 - would be $200, so I may as well get a 5950 Ultra.

> Do you trust the rounded SCSI cables?

I swapped out my current computer's IDE ribbon cables for rounded IDE cables. I hate them. I haven't encountered problems, but they're big and fat and probably obstruct more airflow now. My new computer is not using any rounded cables.

The SCSI cable I am buying is a twisted-to-flat ribbon cable. I use the same kind of cable (just longer) in my current computer. It's magnificent.

> The fast transfer speeds and access times of those 15k.3 drives
> will be thrown out the window by RAID 1.

RAID-1 shouldn't impact either STR or disk access time significantly.

> Buying screws online...well.. Maybe you live in the desert or
> somewhere far from a hardware store

Yeah, I wouldn't know where to buy screws locally.
 
So is this computer for gaming, programming or harvesting a massive collection of porn movies? I just don't see anyone needing this kind of a system... Why would you need a top of the line video card if you're programming?

What I'm trying to get at here is something that someone else already suggested--splitting it off into two systems. The drawback is that you have to get two of everything, but that's not necessarily true. Why don't you set up your 2.2A as your file server, and build a seperate system for all your other needs? You will actually save in the end, not having to buy a $250 power supply or as large a case. Just some food for thought. Unless money ain't a thing, you're going to be very unhappy with this system.
 
[phatnadz]
> I just don't see anyone needing this kind of a system

That's okay. You will, in maybe five years.

> Why would you need a top of the line video card if you're
> programming?

I do everything.

> Why don't you set up your 2.2A as your file server, and build a
> seperate system for all your other needs?

I thought about that, but it can only hold 2 + 8 drives total - that would be RAID-1 boot and a single RAID-5 array. No expandability.

> Unless money ain't a thing, you're going to be very unhappy with
> this system.

I can afford to spend exactly this much on the system.
 
I say go for it. The guy knows what he needs better than any of us do, and it sounds like he can use most of it. However, the only thing I don't agree on is the CPU. It's so much more money for just a few hundred extra mhZ, and it may seem really fast now, but in a while when newer stuff is out, the difference between a 3.4 and a 3.2, or a 3.4 and a 3.0 won't seem all that big at all. At least not for double the price.

Just my two cents. But, again, you're the only one that knows what your needs are. If you think you need 3.4 ghZ, then you need 3.4 ghZ.

Good luck :p
 
> the only thing I don't agree on is the CPU. It's so much more money
> for just a few hundred extra mhZ

But look at it! It's one of the cheaper components! Only $469. A single one of the SCSI drives is more expensive. We're not talking about a $1000 Extreme Edition-3.4 here.

> At least not for double the price.

It's true that the 3.4 is about double the price of the 3.0, I think.

But wouldn't it be a shame to put a 3.0 in a computer like that? That's my reasoning, anyhow.
 
Wow :)

That's quite an impressive collection. Can I ask just what it is that you'll be filling several TB of storage with? I've survived fine with 14gb for windows and 5 for linux for the last few years, the idea of TB frightens me :(

Good luck, hope it all goes together properly :)
 
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

You just bought yourself a 10grand heater.


It looks like you have a lot of money and not all that much to spend it on....can't say I wouldn't do the same.

Good luck with your purchase. Hope it goes together well...I'm going to guess that at least 3 of your purchases will involve sending it back -- or in your case probably just pitching it into the trash and buying it over again.

Jesus....10k....wow.....WOW!!!

Can I have some of that money?
 
STL, I remember when you built your last computer (18 months ago?) and a lot of the concerns being thrown around now are basically the same as before. I say, if you got the money, you want the hardware, just do it. The guys making penis size jokes are just pissed that you have the cash to get what you want. I can't afford a $10k machine for sure. I'm working, with some difficulty (and my wife and I make decent money), on getting $1200 for my htpc (including speakers - mmmm Klipsch) and that is a stretch for me. I usually upgrade incrementally with a component here and there. The fact that you are doing it all at once is amazing. Good luck on the build and be sure to update your website with the benchies :)

P.S. I agree on the nVidia thing totally, BUT I am very happy with my new All in Wonder 9600Pro.
 
[Bomber]
> STL, I remember when you built your last computer (18 months ago?)

It's been a little over two years. I put Northwood together in January 2002.

> and a lot of the concerns being thrown around now are basically the
> same as before.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

> I can't afford a $10k machine for sure.

I can barely do it. :-/

> speakers - mmmm Klipsch

ProMedia 5.1, right? And not that GMX gunk? Good man.

> I agree on the nVidia thing totally, BUT I am very happy with my
> new All in Wonder 9600Pro.

I'm sure ATI is better now than it was before, but the fact is, Nvidia hasn't pissed me off yet. I currently run a 5800 Ultra, the card everyone and his uncle made fun of, and yet it's a great card.

Also, I've grown fond of the Nview full-maximize feature (Shift-Maximize). Outlook 2003 spanned over two monitors rules. That and Digital Vibrance Control.
 
Maybe you should consider going multiprocessor (NOT Xeon)?

Holy hell. I wish I had that kind of money to spend on a computer...
 
AMD? No.

I did think about Itanium for all of a minute, but it's not ready for prime time yet. Sure would make for an interesting development-only machine, though.
 
Or how about leaving hex-86? :p

UltraSPARK, MIPS, PPC970, POWER4 (5 in a while, perhaps)?

And honestly, why not AMD? Opterons are quite nice.
 
very impressive. those people that are saying junk about you can shove it. you know what you need and you're going for it. good luck man! i wish i were making enough money to be getting that stuff.... good lord i want more storage.... and goodness if i could get more ram! i want to fill up all my bays with 1 gig sticks.... mmmm.... 4 gb of ram..... if i had that with at least a tb of harddrive space... i might be happy.... for at least a couple of months.... then i would want more.... lol anyway, good luck with that! looking forward to seeing how it turns out!
 
Originally posted by vinnie
Can I ask just what it is that you'll be filling several TB of storage with? I've survived fine with 14gb for windows and 5 for linux for the last few years, the idea of TB frightens me :(
Click to expand...
Yeah I know how you feel, I lived with a 20gb drive for two years, but I recently got an 80gb drive (still not full). I don't see how anyone uses that much space, even for porn.

I just can't justify the cost at all. If I had $10 000, it most definately would not be going all towards a computer. Maybe I don't have my priorities straight... I don't think I'll ever spend more than $3000 on a computer, and even that's pushing it.
 
Originally posted by STL
AMD? No.

I did think about Itanium for all of a minute, but it's not ready for prime time yet. Sure would make for an interesting development-only machine, though.
Click to expand...

Why do you hate ATI?

And I certainly wouldn't even look at Itanium. HP's abandoned the project, so it probably won't last long. Intel can't turn a profit on it really...
 
I can't fathom why you'd buy nVidia at this moment in a system like that. It's like buying a Chevrolet (or ford, or chrysler), who has repeatedly proven they can't build a car anymore. (although nVidia does has a chance to quickly improve).

Also the prescotts are a waste, but if you feel the need to code on them and think they're the future, then do so. Personally I suspect X86-64 is going to be more of the future; much to Intels discontent, but they were too slow to pull out their "functioning" 64 bit architecture. The Itaniums are... well I'll let you google and read about them. Prescotts are stretching the P4 too thin now IMO, the pipeline is too long and I really can't imagine a P4f to follow. I don't think the Pentium 4s are going to leave us as gracefully as the P3s did (hell they're still around).

Given that I'd rather prefer going with a dual opteron at this point for something like this. Whatever you do, be prepared to upgrade to dual core before too long I suspect, to "prepare for the future." If anything would dual processors get ya closer? :D
 
I'm quite sure that dual-core (like POWER4/5) or even multiple CPUs is, pretty much, the way of the future. Once it starts becoming more popular and programmers start taking advantage of it, it can provide a hell of a lot more processing power while still keeping power consumption down... and, more importantly, more efficient heat managment. Same thing with 64-bit processing. All tests I've seen with the beta (alpha?) of WinXP-64 show that pretty much everything gains from it. And sometimes quite a lot.
 
IBM isn't the only one going dual core, it's along the line for AMD and Intel as well.

Just don't know when... :(
 
Well, I haven't seen them actually release a dual-core processor. The POWER4 is already out, isn't it? Anyway, IMO, dual-core should've been made a long time ago. It's a nice concept.
 
Originally posted by emorphien
It's like buying a Chevrolet (or ford, or chrysler), who has repeatedly proven they can't build a car anymore.
Click to expand...

wow... that was a stupid uneducated analogy.
 
Originally posted by STL

> speakers - mmmm Klipsch

ProMedia 5.1, right? And not that GMX gunk? Good man.
Click to expand...

Definately ProMedia. GMX is overpriced junk. I just retired my old Boston Acoustics Media Theaters last summer (they took 7 years to die).
 
Originally posted by Black Morty Rackham
Well, I haven't seen them actually release a dual-core processor. The POWER4 is already out, isn't it? Anyway, IMO, dual-core should've been made a long time ago. It's a nice concept.
Click to expand...

I thought power4 was a single core, power5 would be two power4 cores (more or less). Well maybe not. I'll have to go look.

Originally posted by Big Worm
wow... that was a stupid uneducated analogy.
Click to expand...

Says you.
 
go ahead and buy it STL, I remember when you used to be on here quite often, what happend bud?

Frankly, if you can wait for LGA775, more power to you, but if you cannot thats fine.

And, other people are telling you not to buy it, it's cause their jealous.;)
 
Originally posted by Black Morty Rackham
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/whitepapers/power4.html


http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/whitepapers/power4.pdf

Even better. Scroll down to page five.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I haven't seen them used in anything yet myself either. I don't know if they're going to be widespread since the power5 isn't far off.

I swear I feel like I'm reading contradictory information now. :D

edit: Ok, you are right (wasn't doubting you). The power4 did roll out a dual core processor, and the power5 is the next gen. I still haven't seen the dual core power4s in much of anything, although from what I read they cost a fortune. Might explain why.

Intel is touting that they'll be able to reduce the price of dual cores to well below IBMs prices. But if Apple plans to go to a dual core G5 (based on the POWER5 or whatever) the price has to be dropping there anyway.

edit again: as I read further, I recalled the G5 is related to the Power4 lite. The power4 is a motherbeast of a processor, multiple cores and multiple threading.

Bah I don't care anymore. I've got work to do.
 
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