Starfield

[LigTasm]

Of course someone made a mod for the Miranda catsuit... how vulgar. Of course I downloaded it.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

No doubt about it, Bethesda were able to fool a lot of gamers this time around with their marketing in terms of pre-orders and day one purchases, making them think Starfield would be some epic next gen game of space exploration. Will they be able to do the same thing on ES6 if they do it equally crappy job making the game? Probably, their marketing is just that good and gamers believe the hype.

Meh. it's a good game. It met my expectations, and I have had over 200 hours of fun with it thus far. It's not perfect, but no game is.

The only way you were disappointed is if you bought into the stupid hype before release, and for that the community is as much to blame as Bethesda.

The best way to tackle new games is to ignore the hype, or just assume that the game is never going to live up to it, and then you won't be disappointed when it of course doesn't.

The key to happiness is having low expectations.

 

[Algrim]

I'm now 164 hours in at level 46. If I were to restart playing I'd have certainly made different skill choices.

I don't love the game but I certainly like it.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Starfield has an I/O problem that is holding back the rest of the PC supposedly.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaYeiAr_30

So, I did a little testing today.

I just so happen to have a 960GB Optane 905p drive kicking around. I bought it a while back when Intel announced they were getting rid of Optane, and they started dropping in price. I was going to use it for a project in my server, but that project never happened.

The drives have pretty poor sequential speeds by modern standards, but they still have absolutely MONSTROUS low queue depth 4K Random read speeds.

Allow me to illustrate:

Intel Optane 905p 960GB (4x Gen3) (possibly sabotaged by being my boot drive during test, and Win11 seemingly always hammering the boot drive)

Lets compare this to the other more common drives in my machine right now:



Samsung 990 Pro 2TB (4x Gen4)

Samsung 980 Pro 2TB (4x Gen4)

Samsung 970 Evo 1TB (4x Gen3)

[/SIZE]


So, as you can see, despite being the slowest sequential drive here, compared to the 990 Pro, it is over 4x faster at low queue depth 4k random reads.

It has always been my theory, that for typical client workloads, this is the performance measure that really matters, and that has certainly been the case for me in Starfield.

I installed the drive today, imaged over my boot drive to it, and moved my Starfield install to it, and did some testing.

Now this is all subjective testing, as I don't even know what objective measure I could use, but the game feels WAY smoother in busy cities, with none of the normal stutter I was getting even on the 990 Pro.

Not sure the pricetag is worth it just to play Starfield more smoothly, but it is certainly interesting.

As for other aspects of the drive, traditional full boots (not modern fake hibernation, fast startup or whatever it is called based boots, but the real deal) are WAY faster on the Optane than on the 990 Pro. As are the waits when windows is installing updates. These take a small fraction of the time they do on the 990 Pro and other more common NVMe drives

Sequential performance is worse, but I notice this less, likely because most of what I do is just not very sequential. Fast boots (the modern hibernation thingie) feels mostly equivalent to the 990 Pro.

The only thing that feels a little slower is when I accidentally shut down a VirtualBox VM and it dumps the memory to disk. This takes a few seconds longer than on a 990 Pro. Same when it tries to load from disk again when it resumes. That's about it.

Wendell at Level1techs did a video on this a few months ago. The performance difference can be quite astonishing:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSUMBeaaiOo

In my subjective testing, running around New Atlantis is WAY smoother on my Optane 905p than on my Samsung 990 Pro.

Worth noting is that the AIC / PCIe versions of the Optane 905p are CRAZY expensive for some reason. We are talking thousands of dollars. But the U.2 versions, which are essentially the same thing in a different form factor are running for about $300 in new sealed boxes. They come with an m.2 adapter for those who need it.

I used a Startech u.2 adapter card, essentially turning mine into a PCIe version

 

[Ranulfo]

Wait..wait... I could get a u.2 drive to actually use the u.2 port on my old x370 mobo? Only 6 years later, it finally has a use case. I remember trying to find some sort of adapter to get it to work with sata or m.2. I lost interest I think when whatever was available was $30-50.

Anyway, interesting info for sure on the Starfield/Win11 startup performance.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Wait..wait... I could get a u.2 drive to actually use the u.2 port on my old x370 mobo? Only 6 years later, it finally has a use case. I remember trying to find some sort of adapter to get it to work with sata or m.2. I lost interest I think when whatever was available was $30-50.

Anyway, interesting info for sure on the Starfield/Win11 startup performance.

Yeah, the adapters have been around forever, but they have never been cheap. You are going to be paying like $20-$40 for them. That startech riser/adapter cost me ~$40.

- PCIe -> m.2
- PCIe -> u.2
- m.2 -> u.2
- u.2 -> m.2
heck even u.2 & m.2 -> 4x PCIe is out there.

Apparently this is for good reason. Signal degradation can lead to timing issues and corruption, so they have to be made with great care. For large deployments you can even buy PCIe retimers to make sure this doesn't happen, but they are expensive so not really a home use type of thing.

Some of this cost comes from the care that needs to be used in design, and the materials required, but some of it also comes from the fact that unlike the cheap mass produced cables for consumer PC's, these are made in comparatively small volumes, and thus don't benefit from the economies of scale we see in consumer products.

These were really workstation parts, and the U.2 port was intended for workstation and server use. Those products just cost more.

Anyway, I have pulled this sufficiently away from Starfield at this point. I don't want to make it any more off topic. Just suffice it to say that an Optane 905p (or 900p or DC p5800x if you are made of money) improve the Starfield experience. Totally not worth it, but if you - like me - have one kicking around you are not using....

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Case in point, this guy right here, friend of the forum peppergomez. Quoted for when he's playing on day one with the rest of us.

Comix will also be playing, and even post screenshots, but then a week or two later will say he's never heard of the game and ask if it's any good - and not even be joking. I've learned not to ask questions.

I mean, I'm absent minded on occasion, I'll admit that.

I might forget having commented on a news story about a game several months ago.

Sometimes I discover a necroed news story not realizing it was necroed, and click on it to comment on it, only to realize I already commented the exact same thing several months earlier

At least I am consistent in my opinons.

I think I'd remember having played a recent game though....

 

[ThatITGuy]

I mean, I'm absent minded on occasion, I'll admit that.

I might forget having commented on a news story about a game several months ago.

Sometimes I discover a necroed news story not realizing it was necroed, and click on it to comment on it, only to realize I already commented the exact same thing several months earlier

At least I am consistent in my opinons.

I think I'd remember having played a recent game though....

I love how this is a reply to a current thread, but also a reply to a post from over 2 years ago. Is that a non-necro necro?

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I love how this is a reply to a current thread, but also a reply to a post from over 2 years ago. Is that a non-necro necro?

It's Schrödingers Necro

 

[horrorshow]

It's Schrödingers Necro

View: https://i.imgur.com/oeyyluE.gif

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Bethesda devs continuing to reply to negative Steam reviews.

https://www.eurogamer.net/bethesda-responding-to-negative-starfield-reviews-on-steam

https://steamcommunity.com/id/bingbong123456789/recommended/1716740/#developer_response
https://steamcommunity.com/id/UptownMermaid/recommended/1716740/#developer_response

Bethesda_Kraken [developer] Posted: Nov 27 @ 11:06am
Greetings,

Thank you for taking the time to leave a review for Starfield!

You can fly, you can shoot, you can mine, you can loot!
Starfield is an RPG with hundreds of hours of quests to complete and characters to meet. Most quests will also vary on your character’s skills and decisions, massively changing the outcome of your playthrough. Try creating different characters with backgrounds and characteristics that clash or are oppositive of your previous character. You will feel like you are playing a totally different game. Put points in different skills from a character you’ve previously created, and you are now faced with completely different decisions to make and difficulties to encounter.

There are so many layers to Starfield, that you will find things you’ve never knew were possible after playing for hundreds of hours.

Even after completing the Main Story, your adventure doesn’t end! You can continue onto New Game+ to keep exploring Starfield and all that is out there!

Never stop exploring!
Bethesda Customer Support

 

[pendragon1]

the comment the above reply is too, to help with context....
"the story is as generic as it gets and the gameplay gets boring. i wish there was a reason to even bother exploring planets and building outposts. everything is fun until you do it once, then it's all a repeating, soulless chore."

 

[Domingo]

As I'm progressing through Starfield, it's definitely one of those games I want to like more than I do. Everything feels like work, takes too many steps, or just flat-out isn't explained.
The game world is massive and varied, but it's tough to just jump in and play. Nothing is simple. There's something time consuming if not full-on tedious around every corner. Just when I think I know what's up, I discover something else that's simply in my way for no other reason than to waste time. It feels like the kind of game that needed a bunch of layers stripped off to make it more fun.

 

[Carlyle2020]

52 hours of moderate fun was ok for 60ish bucks.

But the last hours did not culminate into a Crescendo of loose story ends beeing woven together by a craftsman; they´ve felt more and more like repetitive work that has to be done to get it over already.

And i´m really sad to report that the grey docking scene lives rent free in my head now.
Without my consent mind you -.-


I did not leave a bad comment on Steam.

But this is simply it for me, thank you:

 

[peppergomez]

Bethesda devs continuing to reply to negative Steam reviews.

https://www.eurogamer.net/bethesda-responding-to-negative-starfield-reviews-on-steam

https://steamcommunity.com/id/bingbong123456789/recommended/1716740/#developer_response
https://steamcommunity.com/id/UptownMermaid/recommended/1716740/#developer_response

It almost as if they don't know how the internet works. This kind of thing will just generate more negative reviews. Maybe Todd had a temper tantrum.

 

[Armenius]

52 hours of moderate fun was ok for 60ish bucks.

But the last hours did not culminate into a Crescendo of loose story ends beeing woven together by a craftsman; they´ve felt more and more like repetitive work that has to be done to get it over already.

And i´m really sad to report that the grey docking scene lives rent free in my head now.
Without my consent mind you -.-


I did not leave a bad comment on Steam.

But this is simply it for me, thank you:

View attachment 616728

I don't understand why you would delete it from your account. Just hide it from your library.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I don't understand why you would delete it from your account. Just hide it from your library.

Same. If you got 50+ hours out of it, it sounds like you at least found it OK enough to spend some time with.

Why would you ever remove a game that you paid for from your account? Just uninstall it, if space is a concern. I mean, I have some TRULY bad games still kicking around in ny library. Ill probably never launch them again, but them existing in my library costs me nothing.

For all you know there will be great story expanding DLC in a years time.

I will agree with one thing though. The main story quests were enticing in early game, but got tiresome and predictable towards the end, especially after the big reveal of what it was all about. After that I felt like I was just going through the motions. They could have tied it up better and don't a better job at late story, but I still enjoyed it.

Side quests were mostly fun though and added a sense of depth to the universe.

I think they hope that other mechanics (like building outposts and ships) will keep people busy longer, and it might for some, but to me that is just grind and unintersting.

I don't agree that things get in the way. If anything I felt like there were a lot of game mechanics they built in that we're watered down to the point where they became irrelevant.

The whole research/modding/resources aspect of the game exists, but you don't actually need to do it. You can get plenty good weapons by just looting, making this part of the game feel wasted.

Same with powers. They exist, but their usefulness is rather limited. You can play through the entire game entirely ignoring them.

Outposts as well. There is no need to ever build them.

And you can pretty much ignore the spaceship crew dynamic as well.

I think if they had made the game harder (because let's face it, even at "very hard", the highest setting, it is WAY too easy it might have forced you to use those mechanics and made them relevant which might have made the game more complex and interesting.

What if you were COMPLETELY outgunned and couldn't get good enough spaceship parts to survive in space without building outposts to mine materials and either sell them for money or craft things? And this could also have required the use of powers to be successful. The these dynamics would just have feels like useless bolt-ons.


It feels like they spent so much time building aspects of the game that can be completely ignored. What a waste.

 

[sharknice]

lmaooooooooo
contacting steam support to remove a game after you're done with it
why did you even think to do that lmfao

 

[FearTheCow]

Someone has to have mental issues to do something like that, it makes zero sense.

 

[Sycraft]

I don't understand why you would delete it from your account. Just hide it from your library.

Sounds like a tantrum to me. "This game wasn't everything I wanted it to be, and I can't get a refund, so I'm throwing it in to the fire. That will teach them!"

I really don't get the negativity of some people with this game, particularly people who got lots of hours out of it. It looks like a Bethesda game. Not the best Bethesda game, but still probably fun if you like that kind of game. I will get it and play it when I have time, and I imagine I'll enjoy it. I've enjoyed all their games, some more than others. It doesn't sound like Starfield is a Magnum Opus but know what? Neither was Fallout 3 (or 4) and I still enjoyed them.

 

[Furious_Styles]

Sounds like a tantrum to me. "This game wasn't everything I wanted it to be, and I can't get a refund, so I'm throwing it in to the fire. That will teach them!"

I really don't get the negativity of some people with this game, particularly people who got lots of hours out of it. It looks like a Bethesda game. Not the best Bethesda game, but still probably fun if you like that kind of game. I will get it and play it when I have time, and I imagine I'll enjoy it. I've enjoyed all their games, some more than others. It doesn't sound like Starfield is a Magnum Opus but know what? Neither was Fallout 3 (or 4) and I still enjoyed them.

People do crazy shit sometimes. Guy in the AW2 thread was obviously not really enjoying it but was still concerned with getting all the collectibles, made no sense. I did the GP version so I played Starfield on the cheap, got plenty of time out of it. But even if I paid $60 and got 50+ hours I would consider that money well spent.

 

[Domingo]

I'm in the middle of playing it and while it isn't great, I don't hate it. Like with Baldur's Gate 3, I just see weird elements that impact a decent game in a negative way. If it can give me enough enjoyment to slog through the bad stuff, it's an okay game. Especially for more than 40 hours. I can't think of any game I've disliked enough to want Steam/Epic/Sony/etc. to remove it from my procession forever. Especially a game that might end up changing quite a bit with future updates.

 

[Sycraft]

People do crazy shit sometimes. Guy in the AW2 thread was obviously not really enjoying it but was still concerned with getting all the collectibles, made no sense. I did the GP version so I played Starfield on the cheap, got plenty of time out of it. But even if I paid $60 and got 50+ hours I would consider that money well spent.

Me too. I figure that it is probalby going to be like Fallout 3 for me, which is the Bethesda game I've enjoyed the least: One, maybe two, playthroughs, screw around and see the worlds, do what I want, make my character as unreasonably OP as possible which always amuses me, complete the main quest, and set it aside. For FO3 I think I was about 100 hours I put in it. Money well spent.

Would I like it to be like Skyrim where I got bitten by the tich to play it like 10 times, and sunk 500+ hours in? Yes. Am I going to be furious if it isn't? No.

For me to be satisfied with a game I need to get a reasonable number of hours of entertainment out of it, such that I feel my money was well spent. I don't even have to complete it to be happy. AC4 was that way: Loved playing boats, hated playing trailing missions. Spent lots of time working on my boat and doing naval battles. Eventually got tired enough of the ground missions to download a cheat and use it. Finally got to a "use your boat to sneak and trail another boat" mission that I got frustrated with and quit playing. Still enjoyed the game, I got 30-40 hours of fun out of it, that's worth it. Not the best game ever, but still made me happy.

I don't mind games that are one-and-dones. Heck, some of my favorites are like that. Subnautica is one of my all-time favorite games and I only played through it once. For me, the wonder of discovery of the world was the fun part, so a second playthrough holds no interest. I probably only sunk 30 hours in to it but man did I enjoy it. 10/10 would recommend to anyone, and if I could clear it out of my memory would experience it again and again.

 

[LigTasm]

People do crazy shit sometimes. Guy in the AW2 thread was obviously not really enjoying it but was still concerned with getting all the collectibles, made no sense. I did the GP version so I played Starfield on the cheap, got plenty of time out of it. But even if I paid $60 and got 50+ hours I would consider that money well spent.

I got it for free with AMD bundle, and I've got a buttload of hours in it now. Mostly tweaking mods and building ships, because thats all the entertainment I need after I get home from work and just want to veg.

My current favorite:

 

[Domingo]

LOL, I just ran into a janky situation that is apparently a (common?) bug. After finishing a "kill this guy on this planet" mission, Freestar collective ships just kept attacking me for no reason. I couldn't go anywhere without getting annihilated by a bunch of level 38 megaships. I had no bounty, I did nothing wrong, nada. Whenever I tried talking to Coe he just kept talking about hating "what I did back there." I still dunno what it could have been. I tried a bunch of things people on forums suggested (stealing in front of a guard to create a real bounty and such), but had zero luck. I eventually just gave up and went back to an old save, but it was hours earlier. Note to self, save often - even in the middle of seemingly random missions.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

LOL, I just ran into a janky situation that is apparently a (common?) bug. After finishing a "kill this guy on this planet" mission, Freestar collective ships just kept attacking me for no reason. I couldn't go anywhere without getting annihilated by a bunch of level 38 megaships. I had no bounty, I did nothing wrong, nada. Whenever I tried talking to Coe he just kept talking about hating "what I did back there." I still dunno what it could have been. I tried a bunch of things people on forums suggested (stealing in front of a guard to create a real bounty and such), but had zero luck. I eventually just gave up and went back to an old save, but it was hours earlier. Note to self, save often - even in the middle of seemingly random missions.

I had something similar happen when boarding and taking an Ecöoptic ship that attacked me.

All of my companions were outraged and talked about "murder" and shit. In the end I had to revert to a previous save. Luckily the game auto-saves whenever you enter a new system.

 

[Algrim]

I encountered a rather strange bug. I'd been playing around with my payload skill and somehow managed to push my payload to the point where my grav drive couldn't get me out of the three star systems I was locked into. Solutions ran from emptying your cargo hold (didn't work) or building an outpost so you could create a landing pad where you could swap ships. Since I didn't have the materials to create the outpost and didn't want to scrounge around for them I just decided to go to a previous save where I wasn't in the star system and swapped to my Silent Runner to continue playing.

It was quite irritating as I somehow managed to get to the star systems in question so I should have been able to chart a path out of the systems.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I encountered a rather strange bug. I'd been playing around with my payload skill and somehow managed to push my payload to the point where my grav drive couldn't get me out of the three star systems I was locked into. Solutions ran from emptying your cargo hold (didn't work) or building an outpost so you could create a landing pad where you could swap ships. Since I didn't have the materials to create the outpost and didn't want to scrounge around for them I just decided to go to a previous save where I wasn't in the star system and swapped to my Silent Runner to continue playing.

It was quite irritating as I somehow managed to get to the star systems in question so I should have been able to chart a path out of the systems.

Honestly, if I am understanding you right, that doesn't sound like a bug.

Annoying, yes, especially if you are not anticipating it, but the game is pretty clear about greater mass shortening the range of grav drives.

It sounds like it behaved exactly like it was supposed to.

 

[Algrim]

Honestly, if I am understanding you right, that doesn't sound like a bug.

Annoying, yes, especially if you are not anticipating it, but the game is pretty clear about greater mass shortening the range of grav drives.

It sounds like it behaved exactly like it was supposed to.

In which case, dropping all of the mass out of my cargo hold and my person should have allowed me to travel out of the three star system loop, which it didn't.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

In which case, dropping all of the mass out of my cargo hold and my person should have allowed me to travel out of the three star system loop, which it didn't.

True, unless it was using the mass of the cargo bays. Did that change at all?

 

[Algrim]

True, unless it was using the mass of the cargo bays. Did that change at all?

I was using the Payloads skill which is described as 'making more efficient use of your cargo capacity'. Using a strict interpretation of the description, I'd say that you can store more without incurring a weight penalty for increased mass of the cargo hold but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the game is calculating the mass of the cargo capacity as if it exists instead of as described in the skill.

What made it worse is I invested points in Astrophysics to get higher jump range after I was stuck thinking the extra 20% from the skill would allow me to get out of the planet hell I was in but it didn't get me out of my dilemma. (Building up the Rank 3 skill while only being able to jump between three star systems was another wonderful waste of my time.)

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I was using the Payloads skill which is described as 'making more efficient use of your cargo capacity'. Using a strict interpretation of the description, I'd say that you can store more without incurring a weight penalty for increased mass of the cargo hold but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the game is calculating the mass of the cargo capacity as if it exists instead of as described in the skill.

What made it worse is I invested points in Astrophysics to get higher jump range after I was stuck thinking the extra 20% from the skill would allow me to get out of the planet hell I was in but it didn't get me out of my dilemma. (Building up the Rank 3 skill while only being able to jump between three star systems was another wonderful waste of my time.)

Ah, that is interesting.

Sounds like they hijacked something related to weight on the back end to make that skill tree work, and it backfired. That's indeed a real bug, if you ask me.

 

[KickAssCop]

I re engaged in this game. It is OK I guess. A bit on the stale side in terms of story and planet stuff is not really compelling. Most planets, there is a big sign saying land here, then you go in, kill a bunch of people, loot the place and get back out. Not sure if that is really a fun bounty tbh. So I am back to doing the main quest. At some bank trying to talk down some idiots from robbing it. At this moment, I couldn't care less what the outcome of the negotiation will be.

I think a 7/10 rating that most people gave it sounds about right. I might actually load up FO4 and try to finish that instead.

 

[Domingo]

As I progress further I'm having more fun with it than I did initially. The UI/UX is so complicated and overwhelming, but I've finally gotten adjusted to where the 3-4 actually useful functions are. Ditto with all of the random items, ingredients, materials, etc. etc. actually are and whether I should care about them or not. Initially they they just throw so much at you that it's challenging to parse out what matters and what doesn't. With so many things gated behind really high level requirements, like 70% of what you find is irrelevant for a long, long time.
IMO Starfield almost requires you to stop giving a damn about OCD items and menus and to just start doing missions.

 

[Algrim]

Right now I'd put the game as a solid 6/10. There are too many unskippable animations and loading screens for almost everything.

 

[Krenum]

This game is beginning to piss me off. I had to backtrack 2 levels because one of your companions DIES and the game really doesn't tell you that you reached the point of no return other than one of your companions is assigned to you for a quest.

Bethesda really pulled a fast one on us this time guys...

 

[Krenum]

Right now I'd put the game as a solid 6/10. There are too many unskippable animations and loading screens for almost everything.

Agreed, that, mixed with the copy paste job they did on explore points, (Which is magnified if you run the POI mod) the game feels more like a chose your own adventure game with ship building.

 

[AceGoober]

I have a strong feeling Starfield is going to be my next Fallout 3 in terms of hours spent. I spent 16,000 plus hours in Fallout 3 and right now I have 557 into Starfield. I'm enjoying the game thoroughly. During this playthrough I've only experienced two bugs which were resolved by loading a previous save. I save often so neither were a big deal.

Outpost building is going well although linking up with other outposts to do resource transfers is being a bit of a pain. Set destination but when I go to the receiving end none of the designated resources show up. Gotta figure that one out.

And, found my now go to rifle for pirate or fauna blasting. Hoping to find a legendary version soon.

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

A short little retrospective.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UOhCjB0AEI

 

[alxlwson]

9 days /played to walk through the light.

Really enjoyed it. Still a few quests that are blocked, I'll finish them up when they fix.
Probably not going to actually NG+ until expansion comes out.

Still haven't ventured out to the snake people. Any story quests out there?