Starcraft 2 Beta

Have any of you guys tried Darkblizz.org's offline launchers with custom AI? I've found the Green Tea AI to put up a pretty good challenge as well as micro it's units well enough to ensure you have to practice micro as well.

At the very least you can practice your build orders and keep your skills tight while the beta is down.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Time to reverse bootcamp for Aiur!!!
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No joke. Only problem with booting into windows is that I have all my media streaming going through playback. It's a huge pain in the ass to install MacDrive so Windows can read my HFS disk, PLUS Tversity and other upnp streaming programs aren't very stable - especially when they are streaming files on the HFS disks which relies on crappy mac drive. Looks like I'll be sleepin' on the couch tonight, as the wife will fry me when she can't stream :)
 
Serpico said:
Check out the Day9 Daily with TLO: http://blip.tv/file/3732380

TLO shows off a zerg build that countered a heavy Thor and Tank build, and it was mainly Ultralisks backed up by Infestors. It worked really well, and it was nice seeing Ultras being used for once. You might like it!
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Unfortunately I'm out of the country right now and in a place where the internet is spotty (loading [H] can take up to 5 tries)... so I can't watch it right now.

But right off the bat... ultralisks AND infestors... it just seems like you ought to be dead before you can even get the required tech. That was one BIG glaring thing about the infestor + ultralisk synergy change in one of the patches... it just doesn't seem like you ought to be able to pull it off realistically. Also, what if they switch from thors to just marauders? Marauder focus fire on ultralisks have been ridiculously laughable in the past... no contest, ultralisk = dead in a few seconds.
 
Wow. Day9's cast tonight was pretty interesting. It was zerg vs zerg, and it wasn't a boring match! The focus was, massing some queens up to go along with roaches. usually had 6 queens at least before the person pushed, can't remember his name (sounds like zel neek). You get the +missile upgrade and you just transfuse the queens. It was just awesome. Didn't lose a single queen in the few replays he showed, possibly 1 during the last game. During the last game, his opponent even made 4 spinecrawlers at his ramp and had some mutas hovering their waiting. Roaches took out the spinecrawlers just as they about died while the queens just attacked the mutas while healing eachother. Awesome
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Unfortunately I'm out of the country right now and in a place where the internet is spotty (loading [H] can take up to 5 tries)... so I can't watch it right now.

But right off the bat... ultralisks AND infestors... it just seems like you ought to be dead before you can even get the required tech. That was one BIG glaring thing about the infestor + ultralisk synergy change in one of the patches... it just doesn't seem like you ought to be able to pull it off realistically. Also, what if they switch from thors to just marauders? Marauder focus fire on ultralisks have been ridiculously laughable in the past... no contest, ultralisk = dead in a few seconds.
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That's a pretty big tech switch still, to mass that amount of marauder in time.. you'd be dead before you know it IMO. They can just tech to muta, and counter your ground army and infest your thors.. what then? heh. You can get vikings.. but mutas > vikings. Especially if you mass mutas first. They just need to cut back on 3-4 ultralisks to get required gas to get a certain ball of muta and it'll be harass city.. you can build turrets and what not, but if you switch to marauder instead of thors, he'd still rape your marauders one way or another.
 
refraxion said:
That's a pretty big tech switch still, to mass that amount of marauder in time.. you'd be dead before you know it IMO. They can just tech to muta, and counter your ground army and infest your thors.. what then? heh. You can get vikings.. but mutas > vikings. Especially if you mass mutas first. They just need to cut back on 3-4 ultralisks to get required gas to get a certain ball of muta and it'll be harass city.. you can build turrets and what not, but if you switch to marauder instead of thors, he'd still rape your marauders one way or another.
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I don't consider infestors a viable unit past gold. At 90 hp your opponent's gotta be brain dead to not just gib them on sight. Not to mention EMP > infestors, ghosts > mutas... two birds with one stone.

You can't 'mass mutas' and still get infestors and ultralisk, that statement is just absurd. If you've played zerg you'll know how much gas all that stuff takes.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I don't consider infestors a viable unit past gold. At 90 hp your opponent's gotta be brain dead to not just gib them on sight. Not to mention EMP > infestors, ghosts > mutas... two birds with one stone.

You can't 'mass mutas' and still get infestors and ultralisk, that statement is just absurd. If you've played zerg you'll know how much gas all that stuff takes.
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I'm a diamond level player and have been ranked 1st- 10th. Infestors are very viable in any match up. That statement is absurd for saying infestors are useless post gold league. You're not supposed to mass infestors, just enough to get some of their thors to take them out one way or another. Also, its not absurd if you got the micro to use infestors and don't have the control group 1-a syndrome.

If you take away some ultralisks (instead of building like 4, you get that extra gas to build mutas which cost 100 gas each), i highly doubt you'll have enough units to counter what he already has if you're trying to tech switch just to counter what he's going when he already has the units to break your defenses. If you're going heavy mech build, chances are you'll be behind and trying to play catch up in the barracks department.

TLO and Jinro are proven diamond league level players.

And you are right that ghosts could wipe the floor with infestors too, I'm just saying for that build of Jinro vs TLO.
 
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It's kind of funny, I had the beta all these months, but shortly after I got it (say 2 weeks or so), after playing the hell of it I got bored and stopped playing it. Then I got back into it around May 25th, right before beta ended. :( I started playing Terran.

I have this weird obsession with the extreme early game when the first Marine I get out of the barracks who guards my base from behind the depots against scouts/overlords and shit. I love that first unit.
 
PornoSatan said:
It's kind of funny, I had the beta all these months, but shortly after I got it (say 2 weeks or so), after playing the hell of it I got bored and stopped playing it. Then I got back into it around May 25th, right before beta ended. :( I started playing Terran.

I have this weird obsession with the extreme early game when the first Marine I get out of the barracks who guards my base from behind the depots against scouts/overlords and shit. I love that first unit.
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I love marines too.. haha.
 
refraxion said:
I love marines too.. haha.
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They're little badasses, and the first one has alot of responsibilities!

marine.png



I had the same obsession in Warcraft 3, with the first Grunt I got when playing Orc.
 
PornoSatan said:
They're little badasses, and the first one has alot of responsibilities!

marine.png



I had the same obsession in Warcraft 3, with the first Grunt I got when playing Orc.
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I like the way they look especially when you got a ton just running towards the enemy base, looks so epic.
 
refraxion said:
I'm a diamond level player and have been ranked 1st- 10th. Infestors are very viable in any match up. That statement is absurd for saying infestors are useless post gold league. You're not supposed to mass infestors, just enough to get some of their thors to take them out one way or another. Also, its not absurd if you got the micro to use infestors and don't have the control group 1-a syndrome.

If you take away some ultralisks (instead of building like 4, you get that extra gas to build mutas which cost 100 gas each), i highly doubt you'll have enough units to counter what he already has if you're trying to tech switch just to counter what he's going when he already has the units to break your defenses. If you're going heavy mech build, chances are you'll be behind and trying to play catch up in the barracks department.

TLO and Jinro are proven diamond league level players.

And you are right that ghosts could wipe the floor with infestors too, I'm just saying for that build of Jinro vs TLO.
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The problem with 'taking away ultras' isn't that the ultras themselves cost so much gas, it's the tech needed to even get ultras. Regardless of if you get 4 or 8, the huge gas investment in the tech is still there. Also, if you take away ultras there's no longer any need for lots of marauders. In the end the terran can always respond to what the zerg does - the zerg doesn't have nearly as many options so I guess it's really down to how good the terran player is while the zerg player just hopes for the best - which is exactly what bothers me about infestors. The only time infestors work is when your opponent doesn't respond accordingly in battle.
 
Have you seen the video? That's all I'm going to say. It seems like you don't know what I'm talking about when I'm referring to the TLO and Jinro matchup. TLO had more than just 4 or 8 ultras and he was able to pump them out convincingly, if he just stopped building 4 or more etc he could still mass to counter mauds and still be on top.

I also think that there isn't very much imbalance left in the ZvT matchup, you just need to utilize other strategies, I agree completely with TLO.
 
Yeah definitely check that video out. He had more than 4 pretty much at all times, and continually pumped more out as the died. He did not care how quick they died either, they can take so much tank damage. Just ran up and started taking out necessary shit while keeping them coming.

I'm sure he could have easily just been a little more careful with his ultras and massed some mutas to go with. He only made enough infestors at all times to cover the thor count pretty much.
 
refraxion said:
Have you seen the video? That's all I'm going to say. It seems like you don't know what I'm talking about when I'm referring to the TLO and Jinro matchup. TLO had more than just 4 or 8 ultras and he was able to pump them out convincingly, if he just stopped building 4 or more etc he could still mass to counter mauds and still be on top.

I also think that there isn't very much imbalance left in the ZvT matchup, you just need to utilize other strategies, I agree completely with TLO.
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Like I said before I'm out of the country right now with very spotty internet... videos are out of the question (VERY annoying since I can't watch videos of the nba finals). I haven't even played the last patch of SC2 anyway. I imagine the changes in the last patch to Ultralisks, tanks, and other assorted units would contribute to the overall meta game.
 
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Serpico said:
+2. I didn't think I'd miss SC2 so much, but partway through watching yesterday's Day9 Daily I started missing it bad. Its like, man, I REALLY want to try that thing but I frigging can't. :/
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Seriously man. My team is in the Top 5 in Diamond in our division. Though my 2v2 random is only Platinum ... keep getting noobie allies :/

The only game I'm playing right now is Sim City 4. I got tired of the other games I was playing (WoW, BFBC2), and there's nothing else interesting out there.


refraxion said:
I like the way they look especially when you got a ton just running towards the enemy base, looks so epic.
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I've got this thing for massing marines & tanks. =D

I've tried to go back to SC1 to fill my void but it's just not the same game. I'm gonna try the offline hack and go 1v4 AI just for kicks.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Like I said before I'm out of the country right now with very spotty internet... videos are out of the question (VERY annoying since I can't watch videos of the nba finals). I haven't even played the last patch of SC2 anyway. I imagine the changes in the last patch to Ultralisks, tanks, and other assorted units would contribute to the overall meta game.
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Haha meta game - how many non-TL members here will get that?
 
So I'm just going to address a few topics that seem to be current on this thread as of late. I'm very curious about Starcraft 2 as well, and I'm trying to keep my self current.

First, playing off-line can be done with those A.I. cracks, but they're pretty bad in general(I used them before I had a key for a few days). The best way to go about playing offline is heading over to sc2mapster.com and checking out some of the user generated content. I've played a few pseudo campaign missions that have me super excited about the single player. Also I think the build order tester is an excellent tool if used properly. I've really been refining my hot key usage, timings, and just general awareness of my resources and what I can squeeze out at certain points. I've also gotten slightly better with managing my units and using control groups by playing UMS and using the build order tester. Try out QXC's build order tester and YABOT(yet another build order tester), they both seem pretty solid.

Whew, now as far as the servers go, I've heard some where along the line that most like the servers will be back up early July(I'm hoping 4th of July is now "Wings of Liberty Day").

As far as balance goes, I think we need to see Ultras play out, I think they're certainly worth while and could work well against a lot of mech variations. The latest patch was very recent, and we're going to see a lot more interesting things happen with roaches and ultras now that their abilities have had a huge buff. Even if roach burrow isn't used as a stealth attack to harm an opponent, just micro managing them to pop them under ground as your fighting to have them regenerate is HUGE, I feel like it could turn into something like blink micro.

We don't know if mech play is still imbalanced, I'm not sure that it is any more with the ultralisk buff, but it is good which is positive. Mech was flat out unusable early on in the beta, and it's good to see that bio isn't always the best option now for Terran. As a Protoss player, that strong ghost/mech play still seems a little scary to me, but I don't think it's too big of deal. It still doesn't sit right with me that EMP is a one size fits all counter to every Protoss unit on the battlefield, but I think it might be okay due how small the radius is. If you're not clumping everything together into one control group it seems like you can get away with having EMP hit you during fights if you get a nice arc. Otherwise RETREAT, also keeping HTs back is really important because of how quickly EMP devastates HTs.

Strictly thinking about protoss, I'm not sure how I feel about immortals any more, sure they do a lot of damage to armored unit, but I just don't see them being useful basically at all any more. To me they've become an in between unit if you need one right away for dealing with tons of armored units. As soon as the colossus range upgrade is ready I don't see their purpose really any more. Any good Terran player will focus EMP on them pretty quickly so that shield ability gets tossed out the window, and most zerg players are going for light units it seems. They're great against roaches, but even then I think i'd rather spend a little extra and get a colossus. They're very hard to micro manage and get into the front of your army, I don't really see them as an anti-tank solution any more because of their range, and how devastating tanks are with EMP.

Also, Blizzard basically stated that they don't "feel" every unit has to have a purpose for high level play, this statement was in regards to the mother ship being pretty much useless. I find that a little concerning, and it saddens me that I probably won't be utilizing the mother ship very often. Also, I've stated before that I'm not sold on carriers either, maybe if they just got rid of the interceptor upgrade and gave them at least a slight movement boost they'd be more viable. But I just don't see it right now.

Terran I feel like all of their units are pretty useful, I think the reaper does have late game harassment opportunities that are yet to be realized with the nitro pack being such a cheap upgrade. Over all I'm not really sure if they have a unit i'd call useless like the carrier or the mothership.

Zerg I'm still worried about the ultralisk, but I think it's good now considering it's movement speed and frenzy, also I like the way the roach is beginning to change into more of a micro unit again. I think people need to start doing infester harassment with fungal growth, I've used fungal growth on plenty of mineral lines with no detection by burrowing, and it is glorious. Infesters are really amazing spell casters and people don't give them enough credit.

Overall, I've loved the beta(aside from recent changes to battle.net 2.0) and I really can't believe how much I miss playing the game already. It's gone through so many excellent changes and the game has only gotten better since I started playing it. Not to mention, I've gotten better. For a while my only strategies were fast colossus and fast immortal, and at this point I can't imagine going back to such one dimensional play. I'm really excited for the release, and I hope to see all of you during the second phase and during the final release!
 
Hmm. Anyone know of a good counter against toss as a zerg?

Sometimes they get out collosus and a whole bunch of stalkers/zealots. What's the appropriate counter to that? I don't think speedlings are a good counter, considering how fast they die to collosus.
 
Infesters are decent against colossus, but they'd be better for fungal growth. Corruptors seems to a pretty excellent counter to colossus. a big roach/corruptor army would probably do pretty well. Maybe mix in a few infesters for fungal growth.
 
Decko87 said:
Infesters are decent against colossus, but they'd be better for fungal growth. Corruptors seems to a pretty excellent counter to colossus. a big roach/corruptor army would probably do pretty well. Maybe mix in a few infesters for fungal growth.
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Corruptors? Those are air only units. :confused:
 
Deluded said:
Hmm. Anyone know of a good counter against toss as a zerg?

Sometimes they get out collosus and a whole bunch of stalkers/zealots. What's the appropriate counter to that? I don't think speedlings are a good counter, considering how fast they die to collosus.
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corruptor/hydra/roach

Not saying infestors cant be used in this, but infestors can be easily sniped with some blink stalkers.
 
anyone have a problem with the offline mode running in really slow speed? i couldn't find the option to turn the speed up.
 
Not to troll but just wanted to say that I'm going to buy this game once a decent version of dota is ported over. I might play the campaign but I'm not a big rts fan. Mainly cuz I suck haha.
 
Is anyone able to see replays? This SC2Manager program and the "Reply Manager" don't work for me even with the newest replays.
 
Yeah, I haven't had any problems. Try dragging on dropping onto the shortcut instead. If that doesn't work, do you have the latest patch? if so, get rid of it. They disabled it with the latest, revert back to patch 15.
 
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