Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Instead of paywalling everything, let people try out items, ships, etc.

It's this pervasive focus on marketing that's never really gone away since the crowdfunding campaign. When we hit $2m, we were promised a game. Goals were set $4m past that and we bulldozed them all even though the game was already funded. $11m later, they're still raking it in, and we're still getting the same game give or take a few ship classes, laser pistols, and the like.

They can say that we're pledging, not buying, items and ships until they are blue in the face, but the truth is that they are marketing these ships with every update/brochure/commercial, trying to get existing pledges to change their mind and throw in some more money for a shiny new ship. They're going after new pledges by making the some of the goal rewards provide items to people who have pledged 'before this point', and by extending benefits like LTI to people long after they were supposed to be over and done - but only if you pledge in the next week! (Now, don't mistake me for someone who's whining about not being a member of such an exclusive club anymore - it's not that they did it that bothers me, it's why they did it.)

Then the hangar module comes out. Instead of trying to get the maximum amount of content out to the maximum amount of people - showcasing all the work they've done so far on the ships to all the people who've donated money - you only get the ship you bought. Interesting how it's a donation when people complain, but a purchase when you want to look at their pre-alpha content.

And with this release comes the item shop. A lot of people are apparently up in arms about the prices, but I'm annoyed that they're charging for pre-alpha content at all. I could buy a cool looking laser today, and when the dogfighting module comes out I find out that the projectile sprite is a rainbow and the weapon sound effect is a fairy giggling - except now I'm stuck with this weapon purchase forever (or until the game launches and I have an NPC to sell it to, whichever comes first). CR even said "Yeah, the prices are too high, probably going to halve most of them." - except what about the people who already paid real money to play 'pimp my ride'? Oh, well it's a donation, and it's optional. Okay, then why do the prices matter?

The hangar module and even the dogfighting module should be about exposing the maximum amount of content to the maximum amount of players so that we can do the maximum amount of testing possible. The idea that they can't do that because everything we do now is going to carry over into the final game is ludicrous. Everyone should start fresh at final release. Players shouldn't be forever stuck with the decisions they made when the rules were still being made up as they went along, especially when to make these decisions, you have to pay real money after you've already bought the game.

Finally, is anyone really wowed by the content in the hangar module? I get that it's unfinished, I get that it's pre-alpha. But everyone knew that CryEngine 3 could do an FPS very well going into this. Comparing the Constellation renders we had 10 months ago to the ship in the engine I'm not overwhelmed by progress. But maybe that's intentional; I do remember Chris saying he had to disable functionality otherwise people would be flying their ships around the hangars. I hope the dogfighting module is on-time and they knock it out of the park. That will be the real moment of truth.

tl;dr I really wish they'd stop spending so much effort marketing pre-alpha content, and more time making the game they promised us $15 million in crowdfunding ago. Especially when there have been multiple cases of crowdfunded games that were 'too successful' having huge problems with cashflow and feature creep.

The pricing they charge for everything is really setting a bad precedent. Ships that cost hundreds of dollars is really crazy. I worry that it will take ages to earn credits once the game finally releases, especially since you can buy ingame credits directly from them rather than from other players like in Eve Online.
 
You guys know that they are adding support for friends to visit your hangers. so the whole people cant see every thing argument is baseless. as is the bitching that its because RSI want your pledge more.

I would assume that in the dogfighting module you will be able to crew other peoples ships, and if that's the case the whole argument about not being able to see all the ships is baseless.

And this wining about their marketing, how do you expect them to make money if they didnt advertise stuff, make sales, and such. do you want them to have a publisher/ investor? I sure dont.

every one just needs to chillax and enjoy the ride. if you don't want to spend money then don't, if you do then good for you.

If they only let people fly the ships they paid for, then oh well. having a dogfighting alpha this early is still more than any AAA dev out there would show, let alone let the community use. so we are already ahead of the game.

The pricing they charge for everything is really setting a bad precedent. Ships that cost hundreds of dollars is really crazy. I worry that it will take ages to earn credits once the game finally releases, especially since you can buy ingame credits directly from them rather than from other players like in Eve Online.

Its not that that bad of precedent if over 200k people have spent 17.5 million dollars on it. and you can but credits directly from the devs in eve. the only thing that is different is you can sell the plexes to other players.

since there is insurance which replaces your ship when it goes boom you wont really ever lose your ship (maybe) then it should take quite a bit longer to be able to afford ships, than lets say eve takes since eve doesn't cover anywhere near the cost of the ships you lose.

Ben just posted this

pbub0ou.png
 
Last edited:
So, just to clarify. You're among the group that thinks because someone spends 30 dollars PLEDGING toward a game means that everyone should endure their complete ignorance and lack of respect to the people who have put in thousands of hours and spent million+ of his own personal money to make a game FOR the fans.

Chris COMPLETELY risked his own money to make a game that would be best for fans and people are throwing shit fits about small things that are by and large things completely subject to change. Then complaining about inconsequential features and bonuses awarded to people who backed early to help make the game happen and that it's not fair and game breaking. Regardless of the fact they've been informed otherwise repeatedly, DIRECTLY by the games lead developer.

So forgive me if I don't give a fuck about whiny entitled immature people who can't think past themselves and be appreciative of what immense sacrifices someone has made to make something truly game changing happen.

Unfortunately there is a large group of these asshats spamming the community forums CONSTANTLY and repeatedly about the same "concerns" (read whiny complaints about things that are likely changing) because the development team isn't fucking posting in the forums to every single concern a person has.

These people act like they are majority shareholders in a large corporation who are owed direct and constant communication. Expectations are completely unrealistic.

It irks me because ultimately the good people in the community are very respectful and have well thought out and considerate approach to much of this whole new process.

No, that's not what I meant. There certainly are a lot of whiny asshats that aren't handling things well at all. I was just saying, that just because someone is unhappy with some of the aspects of the game, doesn't mean they're a whiny asshat and suffer from entitlement syndrome. Legitimate issues get dismissed by the "CR can do no wrong" crowd (who are nearly as bad ass the whiny asshats, IMO) because the "complainers" just want "free stuff", which in many cases is the furthest thing from the truth.

Put out a four paragraph well reasoned explanation of why you think UEC for RL cash transactions maybe isn't the greatest idea on the planet, and you get asshats telling you to shut up, that you're part of the welfare generation that wants everything handed to you for free, and that the only reason you don't like it is because you can't afford it.

The people whining about prices are practically all idiots, because they can't earn any UEC yet and even if they could they can't utilize any of the meaningful items (guns, tractor beam, etc) that it could purchase. But, it shows what kind of potential shitstorm is brewing revolving around RL cash transactions. And I don't think you can lay the blame for this entirely on the community. If you told me a week ago that they were going to open up a micro transaction store where 2 guns = 32 dollars I would have predicted a massive shitstorm. I think CRs explanation was pretty decent, but prior to it there wasn't really any context for these prices, so they seemed ridiculous. Personally, I don't really like the fact that you can buy them for RL cash at all, so the higher the prices the better as far as I'm concerned. If people want to use RL cash for an in game advantage, bleed em dry. But that isn't ultimately how it'll probably work, because people will piss and moan and CIG won't hit their monetary goals.
 
Last edited:
Jesus Christ, people.

Is this stuff really all that big of a deal? If you don't want to spend money, then don't. RSI can put whatever they want on their website for however much they want. If people are buying it, then great. Doesn't mean I'm going to buy it. I pledged for $40 to get the game on launch, and to support a good cause for a game developer that has faith in the PC gaming community. Alpha, beta, 10k UEC credits and a ship is just icing on the cake.

You want to know why people don't release demos? This thread, and all the baggage on the RSI forums. I bet CIG is regretting releasing this hangar module. They thought the community could be reasoned with. It appears that only applies to about 25% of it.

This is crazy. Just enjoy what CIG has given us so far, there's stuff still to come. Good grief.

EDIT: Ninja edit.
 
Remember that the posters are only a small percentage of the gamers and of those, not everyone is pissing and moaning. =)

While there are a few valid issues here and there, the vast majority of the people bitching act like the issues with games are similar to real problems in the world instead of things that need to be sorted in a video game development process.
 
Extracted the posters from the hangar files. Resolution is not the greatest as the texture DDS's are only 1024x1024. Made versions preserving the border and without. Click links for full size and the rest are in this album: http://imgur.com/a/1JQfY#0




 
I guess they didn't fix the exploding hornet i just crashed my buggy into it and it exploded. it wasn't as cool as i thought was going to be lol.

those are some badass posters I'd be willing to buy a few.
 
As much as I don't think the hornet is the nicest thing to look at in game, its poster is the best of the bunch imo.
 
Last edited:
Ok -

The guy who said all this shit whining that people spent money (the guy arguing with lorien... ) and generally being a tool here in our forum. - CR said they will REFUND the difference of a change in price to those who already bought items. Learn to read.

IIRC this item store is primarily for posters and buggies and extra shit to hang on your walls. They threw in weapons so you could buy and configure your ship in dogfighting. The pricing structure of all of those items is centered around making credits in the dogfighting module.

That said.. I agree they should have adjusted them prior to releasing it in the hangar module (they released it just because it was done.. they probably forgot that the pricing structure was based on being able to earn credits.. they are pretty busy). Or they should have just not released it until the dogfighting module.

Either way you're going to have a lot of assholes who have no idea nor care to try to learn why things happen the way they do. It's just like people who bitch about mechanics being expensive @ 90$ an hour.. but forget that they aren't just paying for some dude to change their radiator.. they're paying for the insurance of the shop, the tools, the healthcare benefits of the employees, the materials, the rent of the building, cost of marketing of the company etc..
 
I think the cutlass on is my favorite.

I'm beginning to think of melting my 325a.. and just going for a hornet and a constellation.. It seems like the middle class ships will be kind of overrun.
 
Yep.
Seriously considering melting my 315p and going Freelancer in spite of the visibility or maybe even because of the visibility issue. Remember the visibility in Wing Commander?
Privateer? Sitting in a Freelancer reminds me of those times. You couldn't see shit. Lol

Plus... I really am an exploration guy and I think the FL can make some decent money so by the time I figure out who I want to kill I'll have enough money to buy the fighter I want and what has shown to be the real killer. I'm starting to believe that the people in the 300's are in for a rude awakening on the fighter subject.
 
Ok -

The guy who said all this shit whining that people spent money (the guy arguing with lorien... ) and generally being a tool
Excuse me?

here in our forum.
Citation needed.

- CR said they will REFUND the difference of a change in price to those who already bought items. Learn to read.
Thank you for pointing that out, I didn't notice that on my first read-through. I also missed that the 'Test UEC' system was something that was slated for the dogfight module, not an idea he came up with on the spot as a response option for the forum nerdrage. That might actually change my vote from option B (Implement test UEC NAO!) to option D (now that you've explained I'm okay with it).

IIRC this item store is primarily for posters and buggies and extra shit to hang on your walls. They threw in weapons so you could buy and configure your ship in dogfighting. The pricing structure of all of those items is centered around making credits in the dogfighting module.

That said.. I agree they should have adjusted them prior to releasing it in the hangar module (they released it just because it was done.. they probably forgot that the pricing structure was based on being able to earn credits.. they are pretty busy). Or they should have just not released it until the dogfighting module.
Disagreeing with something that CIG did? Do I - do I get to call you a tool now?

The core of my issue with the item store isn't that the prices were too low or too high, but that they hid the content behind a paywall at all rather than just sharing it with us and letting us try it out. It's that they've added yet another revenue stream to a project that has consistently overrun its funding goals beyond everyone's wildest expectations. First the goalposts were at $2m, and when we blew past that all the way to $6m they decided to move them to $20m+, even as other crowdfunded games from other well-respected industry figures are having huge problems despite making many times more than they initially wanted. I think it's a reasonable assumption that the momentum from the crowdfunding campaign will carry them to the $21m mark by the time the game is released - and until then, they have the $17m that's already in the bank. How can they possibly need more ways to make money? So they can make me a laser pistol?

So yes, I'd rather they'd not released the item shop until the dogfighting module, when there will be a system in place to let people try out whatever loadout they want without having to pay either real or fake money for it. Sounds like you partially agree, at least in principle. So why, exactly, am I a tool?

Either way you're going to have a lot of assholes who have no idea nor care to try to learn why things happen the way they do. It's just like people who bitch about mechanics being expensive @ 90$ an hour.. but forget that they aren't just paying for some dude to change their radiator.. they're paying for the insurance of the shop, the tools, the healthcare benefits of the employees, the materials, the rent of the building, cost of marketing of the company etc..
Besides yet another name-calling personal attack, what does this have to do with anything? Where was I bitching about anything being too expensive?
 
guys dont feed the troll


ya wrangler Exploration looks awesome, its what i all i will be doing at launch. though I hope I can get a caterpillar instead of a freelancer, and I hope it is at least semi suitable to exploration
 
Excuse me?

Citation needed.

Thank you for pointing that out, I didn't notice that on my first read-through. I also missed that the 'Test UEC' system was something that was slated for the dogfight module, not an idea he came up with on the spot as a response option for the forum nerdrage. That might actually change my vote from option B (Implement test UEC NAO!) to option D (now that you've explained I'm okay with it).

Disagreeing with something that CIG did? Do I - do I get to call you a tool now?

The core of my issue with the item store isn't that the prices were too low or too high, but that they hid the content behind a paywall at all rather than just sharing it with us and letting us try it out. It's that they've added yet another revenue stream to a project that has consistently overrun its funding goals beyond everyone's wildest expectations. First the goalposts were at $2m, and when we blew past that all the way to $6m they decided to move them to $20m+, even as other crowdfunded games from other well-respected industry figures are having huge problems despite making many times more than they initially wanted. I think it's a reasonable assumption that the momentum from the crowdfunding campaign will carry them to the $21m mark by the time the game is released - and until then, they have the $17m that's already in the bank. How can they possibly need more ways to make money? So they can make me a laser pistol?

So yes, I'd rather they'd not released the item shop until the dogfighting module, when there will be a system in place to let people try out whatever loadout they want without having to pay either real or fake money for it. Sounds like you partially agree, at least in principle. So why, exactly, am I a tool?

Besides yet another name-calling personal attack, what does this have to do with anything? Where was I bitching about anything being too expensive?

Ok, let me try to put this as succinctly as I can. I'm not a fanboy, I loved the WC games. I'm wholeheartedly impressed with the amount of effort by CIG and the RISK taken on by CR in general. To that regard I give a lot of credibility to what he says when he releases information, especially since it seems pretty logical/reasonable. I say this also because I've watched a lot of videos of him speaking and even had a couple questions of mine answered by him directly in a live stream. A question I wanted answered but also would kind of reveal his viewpoint towards monetization.

That said, absolutely I can disagree with things that CIG has done. There are quite a few things I would do differently, but I'm not in charge there. But I'm not throwing a shit fit about it (forum over at rsi) or making a lot of claims before doing a bit of reading.

As soon as I saw the VD prices I was like.. what the fuck? I didn't get mad and post in the forums, I went to find out why things were priced the way they were. Because I thought about it for a whole five damn seconds and realized it didn't make sense. Why? Because it's obvious CIG has taken a stance of not trying to nickel and dime people, they're doing what they can to crowdsource.

I don't think it is a paywall, at all. Everyone who pledged was promised access to a hangar module, not every possible thing that will be in the game to "test". We are not testing the hangar, it's simply a preview so we can see shit as it develops.. they're involving us in the process. It's been stated many times that the testing and balancing will come during dogfighting. Sorry if you missed that.. unfortunately I was unemployed temporarily and had a good deal of time to spend reading updates and doing research over at the forums, etc..

I think they NEED to keep a revenue stream, remember making a budget out doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work 100% as planned. Also, they're going to have operating costs for years past release.. servers - content etc.. So getting more money now is ideal, really. Remember it is still ultimately a business and they do have to make profit in some sort of way. They're at 100 person team right now and they're expanding to around 200 according to Chris. That's a lot of salary and benefits to pay out (if you're not familiar, benefits typically run as much as a salary cost wise).

You're bitching that they have these scheme-y plots to take extra money from people - the point of marketing is a large part. It's been well laid out, they really aren't doing any legitimate marketing. Other than going to conventions and putting videos up on youtube like wingmans hangar and their website.. there hasn't been any marketing. No one is forcing these people who are donating/pledging money to do so..... If people don't like the prices (regardless of reason, which we can all agree is part of them releasing the VD store too soon) they won't buy the items.

Again - I think they should have simply not released the Voyager Direct store... or asked people and explained the prices are based on generating credits from the dogfighting module. Regardless though - I do think they would have had the option to buy credits... because they want to allow people who have less time to still be able to be fully involved/play. So I think that ratio in conjunction with the cap on credits purchasable per day would limit people from going crazy if they had lots of money AND time.
 
guys dont feed the troll


ya wrangler Exploration looks awesome, its what i all i will be doing at launch. though I hope I can get a caterpillar instead of a freelancer, and I hope it is at least semi suitable to exploration

The caterpillar looks pretty sick so far.
 
You guys know that they are adding support for friends to visit your hangers. so the whole people cant see every thing argument is baseless. as is the bitching that its because RSI want your pledge more.
So the requirement changes from being willing to spend $100s on the game, to your circle of friends being willing to spend $100s on the game. You still aren't intended to be able to check out the ships without someone having spent money for it.

I would assume that in the dogfighting module you will be able to crew other peoples ships, and if that's the case the whole argument about not being able to see all the ships is baseless.
Same as above

And this wining about their marketing, how do you expect them to make money if they didnt advertise stuff, make sales, and such. do you want them to have a publisher/ investor? I sure dont.
In theory it shouldn't change anything. We should still be delivered the same game as promised by the stretch goals and CR's statements.

every one just needs to chillax and enjoy the ride. if you don't want to spend money then don't, if you do then good for you.

If they only let people fly the ships they paid for, then oh well. having a dogfighting alpha this early is still more than any AAA dev out there would show, let alone let the community use. so we are already ahead of the game.
Why waste effort paywalling things this early at all?
 
So the requirement changes from being willing to spend $100s on the game, to your circle of friends being willing to spend $100s on the game. You still aren't intended to be able to check out the ships without someone having spent money for it.

Same as above

In theory it shouldn't change anything. We should still be delivered the same game as promised by the stretch goals and CR's statements.

Why waste effort paywalling things this early at all?

You can youtube videos of the ships if you want to see them in the hangar. The reason they probably aren't fucking with giving everyone carte blanch access is that they are keeping the same database from here on out - because otherwise they'd have to waste time migrating user accounts to a new DB then wiping, then at what point do you re-instantiate the old db? In stead it will be allowing people to earn shit in dogfighting.. it gives them some sense of accomplishment. We don't yet know if we will be able to earn certain ships in the dogfighting module, or even what all ships we will have access to yet.

The same game is still being delivered - name one thing we have been promised we haven't gotten?

Trust me I want my sitting in the seat of a hornet and fighting right now, but that's not realistic. But I still want it.

As for paywalling - read my other post.. I don't think it's paywalling. Even if they leave the limitations of your pledge ship it would likely be because people would throw a fucking shit fit that they spent 100s/1000s on ships and now everyone can access them....until the PU goes live. Then at which point they would have to wipe the database they use for tracking who has what.
 
So the requirement changes from being willing to spend $100s on the game, to your circle of friends being willing to spend $100s on the game. You still aren't intended to be able to check out the ships without someone having spent money for it.

Same as above

In theory it shouldn't change anything. We should still be delivered the same game as promised by the stretch goals and CR's statements.

Why waste effort paywalling things this early at all?

Because we are giving them more money towards the project and getting another goofy piece of junk for our trouble (and the effort as incredibly low and planned for all along so it had to be done at some point).

I already have all the ships and sometimes more than one... I'm basically just giving them extra money for the hell of it. I think it's nice that they've tossed in extra crap for me to put up in my (truthfully) useless hangar. The weapons do nothing other than have me click things on the mod table (they are the base weapons remember), the posters etc are just for looks. The buggy was fun for about 30 seconds. I looked at them as I looked at the crap in the extra boxed sets I bought for friends, thank yous for supporting them.

What in all the world is so difficult to understand about that? Why is that a bad thing? I WANT them to get more money because I believe they will use it well or I'd have not given them thousands of dollars towards the concept. If I thought they were going to piss it all away, I'd have never trusted them with any in the first place.

Why in the world would them going over the expected amount be bad? I hope they bring in a billion dollars and the first time you load the game up they've added the ability for it (eh hem) service me because they raised so much cash. This entire concept that they should stop raising money or that they're bad for continuing to do so is insane.

I really think that shop was added precisely for people like me or someone that wanted to kick in a bit of cash here and there but wasn't interested in a ship or what have you. I think it's a shame that they caught so much flak for something I believe they really thought would be fine and STILL are catching flak even though they're trying to make it right.

EDIT: And by "make it right" I mean by those who are upset because if it wasn't obvious, I don't think there was anything wrong with this set up but I get the need to appease the folks pissed about it because it blew up into typical melodrama. Also edited a bit of language because I've honestly never noticed if that was an issue here or not!
 
Last edited:
What in all the world is so difficult to understand about that? Why is that a bad thing? I WANT them to get more money because I believe they will use it well or I'd have not given them thousands of dollars towards the concept. If I thought they were going to piss it all away, I'd have never trusted them with any in the first place.
I don't think they're going to piss it all away, and I don't think CR is a scammer. People are terrible at estimating level of effort on long projects. If I'm not mistaken CR himself is painfully aware of that fact from past projects.

CR had a plan that took between $2m and $6m to make a game. What I'm afraid of is that he's looking at the unprecedented interest in the project, and thinking to himself "well if I have this much money I can do this extra, and this, and this..." So you take what was likely a bad estimate - not by malice, or even incompetence, just human nature - and you let feature creep in the door, and then things like Tim Schafer's Kickstarter happen.

This is an incredibly ambitious project, and I want to see it happen. I'm just concerned - not predicting, not convinced, not (IMHO) whining - that there might be a vicious cycle of feature creep and additional funding, and that they're cannibalizing their potential sales base to enable it.

But really, the smart thing to do at this point is stop worrying and let things take their course, and enjoy the updates we get as we get them. There's probably nothing CR could do to assuage these doubts in the back of my mind, short of closing the funding drive and saying "Thanks, we have enough!" - but that's probably not at all desirable for reasons mentioned in recent posts.

Ok, let me try to put this as succinctly as I can. I'm not a fanboy, I loved the WC games. I'm wholeheartedly impressed with the amount of effort by CIG and the RISK taken on by CR in general. To that regard I give a lot of credibility to what he says when he releases information, especially since it seems pretty logical/reasonable. I say this also because I've watched a lot of videos of him speaking and even had a couple questions of mine answered by him directly in a live stream. A question I wanted answered but also would kind of reveal his viewpoint towards monetization.

That said, absolutely I can disagree with things that CIG has done. There are quite a few things I would do differently, but I'm not in charge there. But I'm not throwing a shit fit about it (forum over at rsi) or making a lot of claims before doing a bit of reading.

As soon as I saw the VD prices I was like.. what the fuck? I didn't get mad and post in the forums, I went to find out why things were priced the way they were. Because I thought about it for a whole five damn seconds and realized it didn't make sense. Why? Because it's obvious CIG has taken a stance of not trying to nickel and dime people, they're doing what they can to crowdsource.

I don't think it is a paywall, at all. Everyone who pledged was promised access to a hangar module, not every possible thing that will be in the game to "test". We are not testing the hangar, it's simply a preview so we can see shit as it develops.. they're involving us in the process. It's been stated many times that the testing and balancing will come during dogfighting. Sorry if you missed that.. unfortunately I was unemployed temporarily and had a good deal of time to spend reading updates and doing research over at the forums, etc..

I think they NEED to keep a revenue stream, remember making a budget out doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work 100% as planned. Also, they're going to have operating costs for years past release.. servers - content etc.. So getting more money now is ideal, really. Remember it is still ultimately a business and they do have to make profit in some sort of way. They're at 100 person team right now and they're expanding to around 200 according to Chris. That's a lot of salary and benefits to pay out (if you're not familiar, benefits typically run as much as a salary cost wise).

You're bitching that they have these scheme-y plots to take extra money from people - the point of marketing is a large part. It's been well laid out, they really aren't doing any legitimate marketing. Other than going to conventions and putting videos up on youtube like wingmans hangar and their website.. there hasn't been any marketing. No one is forcing these people who are donating/pledging money to do so..... If people don't like the prices (regardless of reason, which we can all agree is part of them releasing the VD store too soon) they won't buy the items.

Again - I think they should have simply not released the Voyager Direct store... or asked people and explained the prices are based on generating credits from the dogfighting module. Regardless though - I do think they would have had the option to buy credits... because they want to allow people who have less time to still be able to be fully involved/play. So I think that ratio in conjunction with the cap on credits purchasable per day would limit people from going crazy if they had lots of money AND time.
Thank you for taking the time to give a calm and rational response. You're right that I haven't been keeping up with every single update. Except for ship updates, I usually ignore the weekly e-mails simply because I usually don't have a ton of time on my hands. So I'm sure you could understand how someone who hadn't watched/read every single update might get the wrong idea watching first the goalposts on the funding drive move, then all the ship sales, and finally the half-baked (yes it's alpha, but certain standards should be applied to anything that takes real money) launch of the item shop.

Going to do as many have suggested and take a chill pill until the launch of the dogfighting module.
 
I don't think they're going to piss it all away, and I don't think CR is a scammer. People are terrible at estimating level of effort on long projects. If I'm not mistaken CR himself is painfully aware of that fact from past projects.

CR had a plan that took between $2m and $6m to make a game. What I'm afraid of is that he's looking at the unprecedented interest in the project, and thinking to himself "well if I have this much money I can do this extra, and this, and this..." So you take what was likely a bad estimate - not by malice, or even incompetence, just human nature - and you let feature creep in the door, and then things like Tim Schafer's Kickstarter happen.

This is an incredibly ambitious project, and I want to see it happen. I'm just concerned - not predicting, not convinced, not (IMHO) whining - that there might be a vicious cycle of feature creep and additional funding, and that they're cannibalizing their potential sales base to enable it.

But really, the smart thing to do at this point is stop worrying and let things take their course, and enjoy the updates we get as we get them. There's probably nothing CR could do to assuage these doubts in the back of my mind, short of closing the funding drive and saying "Thanks, we have enough!" - but that's probably not at all desirable for reasons mentioned in recent posts.

Thank you for taking the time to give a calm and rational response. You're right that I haven't been keeping up with every single update. Except for ship updates, I usually ignore the weekly e-mails simply because I usually don't have a ton of time on my hands. So I'm sure you could understand how someone who hadn't watched/read every single update might get the wrong idea watching first the goalposts on the funding drive move, then all the ship sales, and finally the half-baked (yes it's alpha, but certain standards should be applied to anything that takes real money) launch of the item shop.

Going to do as many have suggested and take a chill pill until the launch of the dogfighting module.

I hope you understand that you're getting a bit of blow back from the dozens of other sources that are far and away more unreasonable here too, not necessarily so much you in particular. That underlined bit above is a bit off though. That 2-6 mil was never the budget. He talked about that even before the presentation pre-funding program. There was always a plan to get the rest of the money from other sources (which you probably know but I wanted to point out just in case or for others that might not know and read this).

There also hasn't been a single thing added to the game (as in large objectives) that weren't in the background plan for some point, it just seems like that is the case because it's more exciting when it gets revealed that way. Small things like the buggy did get added and I agree that sidetracked some development time (which I think was probably worthwhile once the dust settles on the store drama because people went zerker over it when it was first revealed in chatroll and then finally in demos). Some of us were able to see exactly how much time that took and I can assure you, it wasn't much. These guys are hauling ass and have been quite nimble (snicker) compared to typical project. Things have just been accelerated or adjusted due to the funding situation.

There's no scenario where there won't be enough money, you're exactly right of course. Can you imagine the offers for investment they've had now? What a problem to have.

Now... that doesn't mean that your concerns are invalid at all. Some dozens of pages ago I personally even admitted that things could certainly crash and burn horribly and they still could. It's just that every passing day and with every little bit of info we get, I think the odds of that actually happening become less and less.

I also think he (Roberts) and a few other members of the upper management/team leads are well aware of the dangers of exactly what you describe specifically because of things they say about those situations. They chat a lot with folks in their channels and the chat roll. Of course you, nor any other person with similar or even really different concerns have any way to know that kind of thing either.

Sorry to tee off on you a bit there! Honestly wasn't so much you as all the bitching in general over the last few weeks.
 
Last edited:
That underlined bit above is a bit off though. That 2-6 mil was never the budget. He talked about that even before the presentation pre-funding program. There was always a plan to get the rest of the money from other sources (which you probably know but I wanted to point out just in case or for others that might not know and read this).
Fair enough; should have read 'between $2m and $6m of our money to make a game.'
 
Thank you for taking the time to give a calm and rational response. You're right that I haven't been keeping up with every single update. Except for ship updates, I usually ignore the weekly e-mails simply because I usually don't have a ton of time on my hands. So I'm sure you could understand how someone who hadn't watched/read every single update might get the wrong idea watching first the goalposts on the funding drive move, then all the ship sales, and finally the half-baked (yes it's alpha, but certain standards should be applied to anything that takes real money) launch of the item shop.

Going to do as many have suggested and take a chill pill until the launch of the dogfighting module.

No problem. Part of why I get riled up is there are a lot of good people out there who are passionate (as I am, as I'm sure you can tell) who let their emotions get the best of them. I just want to try to avoid people flipping out and raging causing other mature players to keep on trucking instead of getting involved in the game.

Speaking of that.. I didn't know there were weekly emails.. damnit. I've got a pledge and don't get diddly in the way of emails.

Fair enough; should have read 'between $2m and $6m of our money to make a game.'

I believe CR put up a million of his own, and had private investors to pick up enough to ensure they could make the game in addition to the crowd funding. I believe the original goal was around 20-22m and the original 2-6 was from his personal bankroll and a few private investors. When they cracked a certain point of funding they let go of the private investors money IIRC.

Realistically we want as much money of players money as possible because it mitigates risk.. why?

We all have an opinion and in some weird way a say.. but not enough stake to really make claim to that say other than banding together. This is AMAZING because it means if they want continued support from us, they'll heed what most people want in a reasonable fashion. It keeps them from having to look to outside investors which could potentially influence the game in a negative way.

The second HUGE way is we aren't taking a stake in the company, this means they can create more content and pull more of a profit margin to allow them to facilitate creating a better game. If they had original investors I'm sure they had at the very least 5-10% stake if not more in the project. That means a large percentage of money going into an investors pockets, rather than a smaller percentage going into CR/teams and then the remainder going into the game development and upkeep.
 
I guess they didn't fix the exploding hornet i just crashed my buggy into it and it exploded. it wasn't as cool as i thought was going to be lol.
Ya that's why most of the ships(except the Constellation) are floating a few inches in the air, collision detection is already active and working.

The buggy used to weigh 82 tons because it was using the mass of the Crysis 3 buggy so you could push the ships around with it and blow them up. It now weighs only 500Kg so you can only blow them up lol.

those are some badass posters I'd be willing to buy a few.
Concierge told me they are coming to the store. No ETA though.


Plus we should be getting a high res video of the presentation Ben did at DragonCon showing off the Landing concourse at Terra. You already mentioned it a few posts above but here's a pretty bad version of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUzNQEtuYwU

It's pretty much this whole place realized in engine.
wQflZhw.jpg
 
Last edited:
If anyone hasn't noticed, the VD store has opened up a great new opportunity for value.
This is mainly for people who already own more than one game pledge package and are at least veteran backers(OB is recommended though since they get the cheapest package prices). This also works for new backers but they have to go through an OB to get the full benefit.

Let's take this hypothetical example:

Person is original backer and owns both a rear admiral and arbiter packages.
Total cost = $250 + $80 = $330
Total bonus UEC = 12k
Nearly all of the bonuses from the Arbiter package overlap and are largely redundant, the only thing that stacks is the in-game credits.

So what you do is melt the Arbiter package ($80 store credit), buy the stand alone 325A($70) and are left with $10 store credit. The VD store sells UECs at a $1:1000UEC ratio so you can buy 10k UECs, finally ending up with:

Total cost = $250 + $70 + $10 = $330
Total bonus UECs = 20k

The only caveat to this is that we still don't have an answer if multiple packages grant extra game license/download that can be used for another account or gifted. So for those of you that want to have multiple accounts(like me) it's best to hang on. For everyone else that does not plan on having multiple accounts, it should be no problem at all.

P.S: As always, I'll be happy to help anyone that wants to do this.
 
Last edited:
i cant believe how much money theyve raised after the hangar came out. they'll probably raise 5 million when dogfighting releases
 
Buy the time the PU of SC comes out i can see them raising over 30 mil.

yeah definitely. there are still a bunch of people who will buy the game when it launches. right now only 242k backers account for that 17mill+

a game like this will likely sell in the millions
 
Last edited:
Especially if they port to consoles. The possibilities are endless.

no port to console though :) CR confirmed :p



edit

apparently he was talking about current gen consoles.

next gen consoles are a possibility.
 
yeah definitely. there are still a bunch of people who will buy the game when it launches. right now only 242,000* backers account for that 17mill+

a game like this will likely sell in the millions

Fixed ;)

There is no doubt in my mind this game will be fully funded by the Dog Fight Module if not before the end of LTI. That will give them another year just to rake in more pledges.
 
I just hope that the feature additions pretty much stop for the time being. I think currently there is a enough content to digest for right now and the community is going to be waiting patiently for the next content update video/demo.
 
I don't think the features that are in the stretch goals are being added into the game. i always assumed that they. are just letting us know about features before they would normally be announced. or at the very most they were features that would be added shortly after launch.
 
Downloaded the hangar module, set gfx to max, looked around the hangar and my Freelancer. Was put off by the mid 1990's textures. Left disappointed. Don't care if it's not ready, don't release shitty lowres gfx as that puts people off, imho anyway.
 
Downloaded the hangar module, set gfx to max, looked around the hangar and my Freelancer. Was put off by the mid 1990's textures. Left disappointed. Don't care if it's not ready, don't release shitty lowres gfx as that puts people off, imho anyway.

cant tell if serious...
 
cant tell if serious...

Heh, maybe I missed the hires pack or something, but my hangar and ship looks very low res textured at 1920x1200. Seriously. Can post screens tonight.
Actually, now that i think about it, the one thing that stood out as very detailed were the mounted missiles, looked like present day Sidewinders.
 
Heh, maybe I missed the hires pack or something, but my hangar and ship looks very low res textured at 1920x1200. Seriously. Can post screens tonight.
Actually, now that i think about it, the one thing that stood out as very detailed were the mounted missiles, looked like present day Sidewinders.

did you turn textures to very high?

that shit looks amazing....
 
Back
Top