Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

Wildace

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That's always been the argument for/against "pay-to-win", though. Unless the game has items that specifically give an in-game advantage and are ONLY obtainable via real currency (not in-game), the argument is made that it's not "pay-to-win".

I care more about how much time and effort it would take me to earn the items using in-game currency. In the case of Star Citizen, given the price of the ships, I have to assume the grind would be tremendous.

it would also depend on if it feels like a grind, or if it feels like a more natural progression or evolution of progress.
 

Youn

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When they start talking about insurance and anti-theft features, I get increasing less interested in the game... why simulate the crappiest parts of life, I get that it's suppose to be immersive, but how is this injecting fun into things? I live close enough to Detroit, I can go there for that kinda action no prob...
 

M76

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That's always been the argument for/against "pay-to-win", though. Unless the game has items that specifically give an in-game advantage and are ONLY obtainable via real currency (not in-game), the argument is made that it's not "pay-to-win".

I care more about how much time and effort it would take me to earn the items using in-game currency. In the case of Star Citizen, given the price of the ships, I have to assume the grind would be tremendous.
Well moving the starting line halfway to the finish line definitely sounds like pay to win to me. Or at least pay to cheat.
 

DWolvin

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To be fair, the grind to get your own aircraft carrier would be pretty tedious... :D
 
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Youn

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There must be an achievment or badge or something to designate those paying for shit vs those grinding? That'd make things kinda interesting, so see these be sort of Waring factions, can't get into the "cool" kids club if you pay for anything
 

Lorien

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Teach's ship shop was deployed with PTU patch 3.3.0s yesterday without ships for sale, today in patch 3.3.0t it has been populated and we can now buy ships with in game credits. Before you ask, this is obviously only a fraction of the ships that will be available since other locations will have their own ship shops with different inventory. Everyone in PTU has been given 5 million credits to test the shop's functionality

Album with all ship prices: https://imgur.com/a/3bHUaFo

Tumbril Cyclone (Bugged cannot buy and no price shown but you can interact with it)

RSI Aurora LX 220900
RSI Aurora LN 367200 UEC
RSI Aurora CL 496700 UEC
Drake Dragonfly Black 74800 UEC
Drake Dragonfly Yellowjacket 74800 UEC
Drake Buccaneer 1128700 UEC
Drak Cutlass Black 1552000 UEC
Anvil Hornet F7C 1496000 UEC
MISC Prospector 1620750 UEC

And made a quick video

all.png
 
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Meeho

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That's always been the argument for/against "pay-to-win", though. Unless the game has items that specifically give an in-game advantage and are ONLY obtainable via real currency (not in-game), the argument is made that it's not "pay-to-win".

I care more about how much time and effort it would take me to earn the items using in-game currency. In the case of Star Citizen, given the price of the ships, I have to assume the grind would be tremendous.
The moment developer introduces real cash purchases, they want you to use them. In order to incentivise you to pay, they make changes to gameplay to make it more boring and grindy. There is no way around it. Plus, the game offers advantages to those who pay. They can put lipstick on the pig all they want, it's textbook P2W.
 

DWolvin

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I have to disagree. Pay to Win implies that more money invested automatically an insurmountable benefit. Starting with a big ship doesn't really help you so much, you need to crew it and it's a bigger (jucier) target. Dread Pirate (whomever) will not be flying an Aurora, but competent single / low crew ships will be the real sweet spot for much of the game (it seems to me). The only situation that buying bigger ships will give a definite advantage is large scale corp on corp battles, and even then this isn't shaping up to be Eve. The same number of people in single seater ships will (balance choices aside) probably be able to beat a group clustered on a few big ships from what I'm seeing so far.

I completely admit that game balance could change, but seeing how quick a Hammerhead can get taken down I think that I'm close to the truthiness of the issue.
 

Aix.

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"Pay to win" is when someone can pay real money to put themselves in a better position than the people just playing the game the regular way. This is especially true in PVP scenarios and also when there is any sort ranking/ladder/economic competition.

Finding yourself with the upper hand because you paid real money to instantly get better gear, then saying "it's not pay to win" after you win with the advantage you paid for is some impressive mental gymnastics. Just because players can eventually get that same gear legitimately doesn't negate all the scenarios where you will come out ahead simply because you started with better gear - and when you start with an advantage it tends to snowball as you reap rewards and resources from other players and then use those resources to better your position.

If you're trying to gain power and position would you rather start by working for minimum wage and saving your earnings to eventually invest, or would you rather start with a small loan of a million dollars?
 

DWolvin

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We agree to disagree then. I think the skill level behind the stick will be more important than the cost of the ship. No, a pop gun equipped Aurora isn't going to take a kingship, but a knucklehead that buys a Javelin isn't going to either.
 

Aix.

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We agree to disagree then. I think the skill level behind the stick will be more important than the cost of the ship. No, a pop gun equipped Aurora isn't going to take a kingship, but a knucklehead that buys a Javelin isn't going to either.

Perhaps in a straight dogfight, assuming they don't make one ship in a particular class the best, but you ignored the part about starting with more power and position. If my four friends and I start out with basic ships, and another crew of 5 starts out with a battlecruiser as well as a bunch of ships, you clearly have two tiers of players at the very beginning of the game and the only difference is real money spent.
 

Youn

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Can 100 freelancers swarm a Kraken and even out the P2W issue?
 

Ruffy

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When they start talking about insurance and anti-theft features, I get increasing less interested in the game... why simulate the crappiest parts of life, I get that it's suppose to be immersive, but how is this injecting fun into things? I live close enough to Detroit, I can go there for that kinda action no prob...

To deter trolls.

Take this scenario. I'm an asshole that wants to watch the world burn. What do I do? Load the biggest ship I have and constantly kamakazi into players/ships in a safe zone. Respawn, repeat for lulz. Same thing with ways of gaming the system to complete missions/quest/money making. Imagine I find a capitol ship that I cannot take down normally, but I could just constantly respawn and ram into it over a short period of time until its dead.

Insurance cost was devised as a way to deter that, make it more and more expensive to constantly respawn a ship, add delays, etc.

Whether it will work we will see.
 

Lorien

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Since a few patches ago Face over IP was added to the game as well as Voice over IP.

Here's some Face over IP head tracking being used to look around in the cockpit while flying. This was done with a cheap Logitech C270 webcam.



Voice over IP also has working distance transitions

https://clips.twitch.tv/DelightfulCrazyDiamondSSSsss

Aaand loaners have been updated for combat capital ships and they're now giving us Hammerheads instead of Geminis and it's already being reflected in the PTU. The [Hard] HammerHead needs gunners

ScreenShot0842.jpg
 

RanceJustice

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To deter trolls.

Take this scenario. I'm an asshole that wants to watch the world burn. What do I do? Load the biggest ship I have and constantly kamakazi into players/ships in a safe zone. Respawn, repeat for lulz. Same thing with ways of gaming the system to complete missions/quest/money making. Imagine I find a capitol ship that I cannot take down normally, but I could just constantly respawn and ram into it over a short period of time until its dead.

Insurance cost was devised as a way to deter that, make it more and more expensive to constantly respawn a ship, add delays, etc.

Whether it will work we will see.

This is definitely a part of it. Another part of it is immersion which some of us - myself, for instance - really enjoy. However, even aside from that it is important to note that these systems that may seem like fluff can in fact create whole ripples through the gameplay dynamic.

As Ruffy said, Insurance is there to deter insta-spawn trolls and give some real gravitas for blowing up your ship. It also adds to a layer of MMO-style currency sinks much like all of your other "quasi-realistic bills" - paying for ammo/resupply, docking privileges, hangar fees, apartment/condo fees etc. In addition, this can spawn many different kinds of insurance policies for different things - the basic hull insurance, upgrades/equipment, cargo etc...are all separate policies that depend on the player or entity to decide on the value/risk thereof and add to the game economy. This can be magnified to things like buying a berth (will it be steerage or up to first class?) on a long distance starliner or pay to ship goods across systems... which in turn spawn game dynamics (ie such as piloting, crewing, acting as security for, traveling on, etc..) commercial spacecraft and large shipments, which in turn allows for both the player and NPC generation of missions and jobs for these tasks! Consider things like the recently introduced "food and drink" system, where eating and drinking is necessary to keep at a certain baseline of performance and eating/drinking well/high quality items can allow you to eclipse that; legal and illegal drugs can be added to enable special buffs usually with at least a potential debuff etc. Now consider all the things that this can impact - missions to procure resources for a restaurant conglomerate somewhere with a decision - do you pick up and drop off the proper ingredients as contracted, or do you take a little extra on the side to let some medical waste processing cartel drop in some "We Absolute Swear This Is Cheese-product" instead? Take the latter route and maybe later you'll find that Cheezy Ramen Bars that used to give a health buff in that sector are starting to make people sick... which in turn spawns another mission for someone to find out why!

Oh Lorien - Have they commented recently on the specially designed webcam-type device or has that kind of been put on the back burner?
 

Lorien

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This is the latest news from faceware about the motion sensor, it's designed to work in super low light making it far better than any standard webcam. I believe the minimum requirements if you want to use a regular webcam are 720p 30fps but you really want a camera/sensor capable of 60fps for best results and it'll still work at least as a sort of TrackIR replacement using a cheap webcam as you've seen in the video I posted.


Faceware Motion Sensor Update
Citizen Con 2948

When we embarked on this journey with Cloud Imperium Games to create the world’s first Face over Internet Protocol (FOIP) feature, we began designing the Faceware Motion Sensor in parallel. A year later, we’re excited to share the latest updates with you. We’ve been working hard to create an innovative and unique camera with features that are completely optimized for Star Citizen and FOIP. In some ways this has been a straightforward development process, but in other ways it has meant creating a product that flies in the face of typical webcams. It’s meant creating something new and that has been a fun and unique challenge.

webcam-comparison-v01.jpg


More info with a sign up form to get into the early access via this link.

http://facewaretech.com/motionsensor/

FMS_01.jpg
 
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Lorien

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I think ramming is going to be a problem...
In previous patches like the one that battle footage was filmed the Hammerhead had pretty weak shields and there was a bug where the shield "bubble" didn't cover the tail of the ship and the rear turret. In a more recent patch shield strength has been increased considerably and the coverage bug was fixed.

Here's a test of all this

Also in the future the current shield bubble system will be gone replaced with a better system that follows the contours of ships a lot more closely.
 

Lorien

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More ship toughness tests of various capital/big ships in the very latest patch

 

Youn

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*Starts watching video*

5 seconds pass

*Stops video and re-installs Deus Ex for nth time*
 

tunatime

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I thought they were done with selling gadgets.
Why release it when you cant even set the release date? Its gonna get outdated like everything else.
Same reason they sell ships to make as much money as they can before this project collapses on itself.
 

gamerk2

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To deter trolls.

Take this scenario. I'm an asshole that wants to watch the world burn. What do I do? Load the biggest ship I have and constantly kamakazi into players/ships in a safe zone. Respawn, repeat for lulz. Same thing with ways of gaming the system to complete missions/quest/money making. Imagine I find a capitol ship that I cannot take down normally, but I could just constantly respawn and ram into it over a short period of time until its dead.

Insurance cost was devised as a way to deter that, make it more and more expensive to constantly respawn a ship, add delays, etc.

Whether it will work we will see.

Works in EVE; Goonswarm does a "burn Jita" [Jita is EVEs largest trading hub] campaign every year, for the LOLz. No reason to think SC would be any different.
 

Lorien

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Jump Point 06.10

old.reddit.com/r/RSIsubscriber/comments/9rr2fs/could_we_please_get_the_new_jump_point/e8j7sti/

4pfPkVk.jpg
 

RanceJustice

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If there is anyone who is seriously interested in a (at cost or close to it) Anvil Valkyrie (ie the brand new, now flyable dropship) with the exclusive CitizenCon livery/paint job, or even the Mustang with this year's CitizenCon paint job, please send me a PM; both have rare event aesthetics and are no longer able to be purchased directly. I may be able to procure it at cost and/or for trade if there's any interest.
 

Ritorix

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Played a little tonight on the PTU.

It was smooth, had one crash to desktop in about 2 hours. That's a record for this PTU believe me.

Started off with the buccaneer, took it on a patrol mission. You go between waypoints in the Yela asteroid belt and shoot at hostiles. Had a voice-acted bit explaining it first and a few NPC ships at the first waypoint. It wasn't too hard - a few auroras, a few cutlasses. Blew through that no problem.

Went shopping at Grim Hex afterwards. Everyone has lots of cash on the test server, I blew it on mods and guns to try.Loaded the buccaneer up with attrition cannons. Whatever those are. Logged out and loaded into arena commander to test it out (things you buy in PTU are usable in AC), but they were buggy. Repeated that but with all Omni lasers. Those were crazy alpha dps. I soloed a bunch of waves easily with those.

Back into Universe, took a FPS mission to kill 7 NPCs at the security outpost. Flew there, saw some other player ships, went inside and started shooting. Very basic bot AI it seems, they shot back and had some chatter but nothing impressive. Then I turned the corner and blew away one NPC and saw "crimestat increased!" Oops, that was a player. LOL.

Respawned and just flew around a bit. Landed on Yela to watch the snow while the sun set and the asteroid belt was overhead. Very scenic. Things are coming along.

b1.jpg b2.jpg b3.jpg b4.jpg b5.jpg b6.jpg
 

jonneymendoza

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Played a little tonight on the PTU.

It was smooth, had one crash to desktop in about 2 hours. That's a record for this PTU believe me.

Started off with the buccaneer, took it on a patrol mission. You go between waypoints in the Yela asteroid belt and shoot at hostiles. Had a voice-acted bit explaining it first and a few NPC ships at the first waypoint. It wasn't too hard - a few auroras, a few cutlasses. Blew through that no problem.

Went shopping at Grim Hex afterwards. Everyone has lots of cash on the test server, I blew it on mods and guns to try.Loaded the buccaneer up with attrition cannons. Whatever those are. Logged out and loaded into arena commander to test it out (things you buy in PTU are usable in AC), but they were buggy. Repeated that but with all Omni lasers. Those were crazy alpha dps. I soloed a bunch of waves easily with those.

Back into Universe, took a FPS mission to kill 7 NPCs at the security outpost. Flew there, saw some other player ships, went inside and started shooting. Very basic bot AI it seems, they shot back and had some chatter but nothing impressive. Then I turned the corner and blew away one NPC and saw "crimestat increased!" Oops, that was a player. LOL.

Respawned and just flew around a bit. Landed on Yela to watch the snow while the sun set and the asteroid belt was overhead. Very scenic. Things are coming along.

View attachment 117174 View attachment 117175 View attachment 117176 View attachment 117177 View attachment 117178 View attachment 117179

very nice
 
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