Sony's Frustration Over PS4 Hardware 'Cynicism'

octoberasian said:
They pretty much did what Nintendo did when they announced the Wii U-- no actual hardware shown except for a PDF press kit showing pictures of it.

A full reveal of the hardware was probably not until several months away.
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They did show a version of the tablet controller the E3 the year before the console was released. It's a good thing they upgraded it, because the first version had some.. issues.
 
Monkey God said:
People are also interested in whats inside the case, Mr. Marketing Man.
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That is probably the one thing they don't have finished. That black shinny plastic is probably already finished, but nothing to put in it. I'm willing to bet that AMD's new Jaguar architecture is probably very amazing. I wouldn't say it'll make Intel sh*t their pants, but it will certainly give them a run for their money. I'm also willing to bet that it's so new, they barely were able to demo it to Sony and Microsoft.

Also remember when Nvidia made their chipset for the original Xbox, they were able to do some amazing things. Dual channel memory, which is now standard in PCs. Sound Storm, which is unfortunately long dead. So I'm expecting something great to come out of this from AMD.
 
I guess my attitude towards it is this, if they had the controller plugged into a box or whatever proving that this thing was actually functioning at the time of presentation thats cool, maybe im more skeptical than everyone else but how do we know they were even playing on the PS4 prototype and not a PC emulating the PS4 ?
 
SomeoneElse said:
I guess my attitude towards it is this, if they had the controller plugged into a box or whatever proving that this thing was actually functioning at the time of presentation thats cool, maybe im more skeptical than everyone else but how do we know they were even playing on the PS4 prototype and not a PC emulating the PS4 ?
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What's it matter? The PS4 is an x86-based PC, so it wouldn't be a PC emulating a PS4, but rather an equivalently-specced PC running the PS4 OS.
 
well id like to see the console esp how it constructed so as to judge if its going to suffer from any overheating or over problems.
 
GoldenTiger said:
They told us that already, Shrieking Shirley.
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People keep saying that...ummm, what specs did Sony give you aside from:

"x86 CPU...an enhanced PC GPU...local storage HDD and 8GB"

How can that be considered specs?

GoldenTiger said:
What's it matter? The PS4 is an x86-based PC, so it wouldn't be a PC emulating a PS4, but rather an equivalently-specced PC running the PS4 OS.
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Or a high end PC running the PS4 OS....compared to the final product which could be half the power...and that folks, is why they needed to announce some real specs.
 
Steve said:
People keep saying that...ummm, what specs did Sony give you aside from:

"x86 CPU...an enhanced PC GPU...local storage HDD and 8GB"

How can that be considered specs?
.
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They said it was a Radeon 7870-level GPU and its architecture (by virtue of the FLOPS amount, it was deduced to be a 1152 shader part by people on XS and B3D), that it is x86-based, has 8GB of GDDR5 unified for the graphics and system memory with ~180gbps bandwidth, and a large HDD. I'm not sure what else people need to know....
 
GoldenTiger said:
They said it was a Radeon 7870-level GPU and its architecture (by virtue of the FLOPS amount, it was deduced to be a 1152 shader part by people on XS and B3D), that it is x86-based, has 8GB of GDDR5 unified for the graphics and system memory with ~180gbps bandwidth, and a large HDD. I'm not sure what else people need to know....
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All of this was stated during the presentation and liveblogged too: http://live.arstechnica.com/sonys-2013-playstation-meeting-liveblog/
 
Steve, AMD confirmed the specs that same day:

8 Jaguar cores, a custom 7850-like GPU (18 CUs with peak GFLOPs ~5% higher than a standard 7850) and 8GB GDDR5.

And before some folks go off on another "my PC has better specs than that", please note that comparing console and PC hardware and assuming equivalent performance only shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think Sony didn't show the actual console due to a marketing decision. Having another card to play to counter whatever Microsoft is revealing is just smart business. You can rest asured that there's probably even more that they're hiding from us that's going to be revealed after MS shows off their new Xbox.
 
And, sorry to triple-post, but also was stated it is an 8-core "Jaguar" based APU, which specs are known for and combined with the FLOPs number has been dissected as to that shader count and rough clockspeeds (~800mhz on the GPU).
 
RedSh1rt said:
Well I guess you can see his point. The PS4 is just going to be an uninteresting black box.

I'm more interested in a complete spec sheet than the dimensions of the thing!
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True but when you have a big launch for a product I don't think people are out of line to actually expect to see the product at the launch.
 
GoldenTiger said:
And, sorry to triple-post, but also was stated it is an 8-core "Jaguar" based APU, which specs are known for and combined with the FLOPs number has been dissected as to that shader count and rough clockspeeds (~800mhz on the GPU).
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Yep. And to clarify a bit more, the FLOPs figure was only regarding the GPU and excluded the CPU. They also explained (though not in detail) that the CPU and GPU shared the same GDDR5, so we're going to see HSA (heterogeneous systems architecture) + openCL in the PS4, potentially allowing for native physics. They also noted that it's also a single chip solution, with the GPU and CPU on the same die. I doubt that there's an off-die FCH (fusion controller hub) but instead the I/O and on-die chipset-related stuff has been adjusted accordingly to fit the big GPU and high bandwidth of the GDDR5.
 
An actual physical box is needed to build confidence that what we saw is feasible by November.
 
I'm not entirely sure why this is such a big deal and why so many people are crying over it. They introduced key aspects of the system, final specs, and what they are shooting for in their "vision". Everyone should know E3 is the big release party for all companies Sony included.

Sony could have said absolutely nothing, not a word. Then Microsoft announces something similar on the 20th and nothing but praise and a shit storm of Sony hate and how they suck and fail at life. I wouldn't be surprised if a they need to go DIAF or I hope they fall on a knife comments came up.

The bottom line here is that Sony gave you a sneak peek at what they are working on and what they have to work with. No one in their right mind would think Sony would announce, show, and release the damn thing on the 20th and if you did you're horribly ignorant. Even if they had a final design they wouldn't have shown it, they are not going to show their cards to Microsoft months before E3 just to have them 1up them at the conference.

I will be buying both platforms for their exclusives, possibly on release day but it depends on the games which is what everyone should care about. Sony is generally good about making aesthetically pleasing consoles, so don't worry about having an ugly ass green X sitting on your living room floor.

As for me, my let down of that conference was Blizzard and what appears to be a low frame rate in Killzone 4.
 
Well, production is startin in Q3, so whatever changes they can make are going to be strictly related to off-die, and more accurately nothing "big"; which is to say, they can maybe add a better WiFi card, make slight revisions to the PCB, the shape of the box, the power supply, and to some extent the peripherals, but it's far too late to make any changes regarding the die. It had to have been taped out and the mass production ready revisions are all done with. To make any changes to the die would require a new mask and another 6+ months of work, so you can take the CPU/GPU as a fact rather than rumor.
 
ballistic90 said:
They did show a version of the tablet controller the E3 the year before the console was released. It's a good thing they upgraded it, because the first version had some.. issues.
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It still confuses me that people are more upset over this than Nintendo NOT showing the actual Wii U console during the first announcement. Sony also, like Nintendo, showed just the controller.

Seems people want to pick on Sony probably because it's Sony OR they were burned by the Wii U hardware, and having TOO HIGH OF EXPECTATIONS.

Hey, people: The PS4 is already more powerful than the Wii U, be patient for the actual hardware reveal at E3.

Why be disappointed you don't know what the PS4 look like? Knowing Sony, it's going to be black, vinyl plastic rectangle again about the size of the Super Slim PS3 (maybe).
 
octoberasian said:
It still confuses me that people are more upset over this than Nintendo NOT showing the actual Wii U console during the first announcement. Sony also, like Nintendo, showed just the controller.

Seems people want to pick on Sony probably because it's Sony OR they were burned by the Wii U hardware, and having TOO HIGH OF EXPECTATIONS.

Hey, people: The PS4 is already more powerful than the Wii U, be patient for the actual hardware reveal at E3.

Why be disappointed you don't know what the PS4 look like? Knowing Sony, it's going to be black, vinyl plastic rectangle again about the size of the Super Slim PS3 (maybe).
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Actually the Wii U did have pictures of the final expected hardware design the first E3 it was announced. Of course, that was over a year before it was released and the design of the console didn't actually change.
 
on the hardware specific side, i dont really care much..we'll know when we know....
on the "as long as it does what they say it does" side.... isnt this the same company that took away features that fell under the 'what it does' department and then told everyone to go pound sand when they were ticked off about the removal of those functions?

......and this gives any warm fuzzies about "as long as it does what they say it'll do" how exactly?????
 
Funny thing is, they haven't detailed exactly what it will do. They've said what they want it to do someday, but not what will be happening day one.
 
Well what is there to say: Sorry we fooled all of your last generation finally we can do 1080p games without abusing upscaling graphics and most games weren't able to do better then 720p.


And as the Wii proved what hardware specs :) .
 
Steve said:
Or a high end PC running the PS4 OS....compared to the final product which could be half the power...and that folks, is why they needed to announce some real specs.
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It'll likely be a low end PC. It's using 8 gigs of shared memory between the CPU and GPU. No such thing as high end there. I also doubt it'll be clocked high, for heat reasons.

pelo said:
And before some folks go off on another "my PC has better specs than that", please note that comparing console and PC hardware and assuming equivalent performance only shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Shows how little you know. If developers keep as much scene setup on the GPU, you would have similar performance boosts like on console. OpenGL, thanks to extensions, hardware vendors could offer new OpenGL extensions to have low level access to the GPU.

To put it simply, if you code like it's 2005, then PC has a lot more overhead over console. Not many developers are worried about improving their code, as PCs are so fast you couldn't care how sloppy your code is. Developers may want to make PC gamers happy, so maybe they'll start improving their coding as well.
 
Steve, thats is exactly what I'm talking about. That thing could be running smooth as silk on a very high end PC emulating a PS4 and we wouldn't even know. Im glad someone else sees how deceptive it could be. I still think Sony wanted to be the first to announce their next-gen console. We all know that the Wii U was pretty much a bust they have fallen far behind when it comes to hardware, they are really kinda stuck with gimmicky ideas right now and not improving their graphical platform, i understand they are aiming at more of the casual gamer but still. I don't think Microsoft will make the same mistake with the next xbox.

Any possibility that the [H] team will find a way to run some benches on the PS4 when it available? ;-) LOL
 
Steve said:
We know, we posted it here.

Sony did not announce that at their PS4 launch...which is what we are discussing...and why the company is catching grief.
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Good thing this was just a teaser and not a launch then.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Good thing this was just a teaser and not a launch then.
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That is where they made their mistake. They pulled a Microsoft Surface and announced a product before it was really even ready. They should have waited a few more months so they could give us some more solid info on the system as a whole. We all know a lot can change between now and November.
 
I seem to remember that the Xbox 360 wasn't shown until very close to its release date.....but it was so long ago I can't be sure.

...and like all the crybabies posting in this thread I'm too lazy to search for anything, I'll just be ignorant.
 
I'm with the guy being interviewed on this one, people making a huge deal out of this are out of their tiny little minds. The hardware design isn't final, as they won't roll into full production for another 4-5 months they still have plenty of time to finalize. They needed to get out ahead of Microsoft in the US because it was their toughest market for the past 6-7 years and they did just that.

They told us in what kind of hard ware will be in there already, sure they might tweak it somewhat but we have a fairly solid idea of what the capabilities will be.
 
octoberasian said:
Seems people want to pick on Sony probably because it's Sony
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I think this is the reason, but it's because Sony has cultivated this reputation. As a qualifier, I haven't bought a console since the GC and I'm probably going to buy a PS4, but I think Sony does have a deserved negative reputation in a lot of areas, especially marketing. Microsoft does too.

I believe both companies have shown pre-made footage and pretended like it was live before, so there should be skepticism when they try to show you a "live" demo. A lot of it was quelled when they showed it on Jimmy Fallon's show, but still... no one should take Sony at their word either, imo.
 
I don't see the trouble with not showing the hardware. They showed the controller, which I care a whole lot more about. The controllers functionality and ergonomics will affect my gaming experience. The physical appearance of the console will not. They also showed enough games and demo's to get a feel for what it's going to be capable at launch, and what sort of features we can expect. This too is a lot more important than the appearance.

E3 is coming, and it's going to be big this year for next-gen consoles. There is no reason for Sony to show all their cards right now.
 
Well having a box that is hooked up to a TV and Playing a game is a good way to show us what the damn thing can do.

Otherwise for all we know the new PS4 looks just like a PC.....because that could be what you're using to render the shit you're shoveling at us.


I don't care about seeing the PS4 but I do care about sony's miss-representation of its capabilities by play pre-render shit process on a PC.
 
stevedave said:
Well having a box that is hooked up to a TV and Playing a game is a good way to show us what the damn thing can do.

Otherwise for all we know the new PS4 looks just like a PC.....because that could be what you're using to render the shit you're shoveling at us.


I don't care about seeing the PS4 but I do care about sony's miss-representation of its capabilities by play pre-render shit process on a PC.
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Killzone 4 was live, not pre-rendered. We don't know if it was on the PS4 hardware or not though. There's no proof either way.
 
Viper87227 said:
I don't see the trouble with not showing the hardware. They showed the controller, which I care a whole lot more about. The controllers functionality and ergonomics will affect my gaming experience. The physical appearance of the console will not. They also showed enough games and demo's to get a feel for what it's going to be capable at launch, and what sort of features we can expect. This too is a lot more important than the appearance.

E3 is coming, and it's going to be big this year for next-gen consoles. There is no reason for Sony to show all their cards right now.
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The controller is important, but I'm not really sure what the big deal a touch pad would be on a controller. I didn't really care for the idea on the Ouya, and I don't really care for it on the PS4 either.
 
xSystemFailurex said:
Funny thing is, they haven't detailed exactly what it will do. They've said what they want it to do someday, but not what will be happening day one.
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This is an important distinction, especially for a company like Sony. They seem to talk out of their asses quite frequently.
 
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