• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Some hard Fermi performance # info

As someone who's patiently waiting for Fermi am I the only one who's pissed off about what Nvidia pulled last Night? There was no NDA being lifted or performance numbers or even pricing. I mean WTF was that? A bunch of stupid triangle polygon marketing BS that's supposed to sound impressive? What other company would try to pull that shit?
It came off as nothing more than a desperate attempt to get buyers to hold off purchasing a 5800 series card a little longer. What a huge dissapointment. I don't know about you but I don't like being jerked around like that. Fuck you Nvidia! fuck you up your stupid ass!
 
Harry1969 said:
As someone who's patiently waiting for Fermi am I the only one who's pissed off about what Nvidia pulled last Night? There was no NDA being lifted or performance numbers or even pricing. I mean WTF was that? A bunch of stupid triangle polygon marketing BS that's supposed to sound impressive? What other company would try to pull that shit?
It came off as nothing more than a desperate attempt to get buyers to hold off purchasing a 5800 series card a little longer. What a huge dissapointment. I don't know about you but I don't like being jerked around like that. Fuck you Nvidia! fuck you up your stupid ass!
Click to expand...

I feel where you're coming from but there was an NDA on this material. Is it a marketing ploy? Of course, nVidia NEEDED to say something about what they are doing. Now they have to execute. Getting parts out in good supply by April will be HUGE for them.

So I look at it as a beginning, even if it is all marketing for now. We're going to see more and more benchmarks leaked in the coming weeks and nVidia will probably announce an official launch day I bet.
 
Clearly, NVIDIA is looking for some damage control with this brown paper launch. I guess they want to reassure the stock holders.
NVIDIA is not in a very comfortable position even if they manage to launch Fermi before the end of Q1. Due to the very high complexity of the GPU and the resulting low yield, Fermi will cost a harm and a leg to manufacture and availability will be low for a few months.

Assuming a 25%-30% performance improvement over the 5870, NVIDIA could legitimately ask for $500 for its new offering. However, I believe that AMD's margin is very good and they could afford to lower their price, hence putting additional pressure on NVIDIA.

NVIDIA respond to Eyefinity is deceiving. Most peoples do not care about multiple monitor support but we are talking about a high end video card here...

And more importantly, where is the mainstream solution?

The bright side is that Fermi seems very innovative (on paper!).
 
Harry1969 said:
As someone who's patiently waiting for Fermi am I the only one who's pissed off about what Nvidia pulled last Night? There was no NDA being lifted or performance numbers or even pricing. I mean WTF was that? A bunch of stupid triangle polygon marketing BS that's supposed to sound impressive? What other company would try to pull that shit?
It came off as nothing more than a desperate attempt to get buyers to hold off purchasing a 5800 series card a little longer. What a huge dissapointment. I don't know about you but I don't like being jerked around like that. Fuck you Nvidia! fuck you up your stupid ass!
Click to expand...

Wow umm go smoke some weed and chill man. Seriously, r e l a x. It's only a video card and Nvidia is only another corporation doing what businesses do. It's nothing new so chill and just wait like the rest of us.

Meanwhile after reading this article from hardwarecannucks I'm pretty impressed so far. I mean you can bag on nvidia and have all the laughs you want but in the end it looks as if they have gone ahead and built a very impressive NEW GPU from the ground up. Will it be amazing in games? Not sure but all indiications sure are pointing that way. Only time will tell and I'm looking foward to hearing more in the coming weeks.

No reason to get all nuts about it. They don't have to release anything until they are good and ready. Afterall it's their product. If you can't or don't want to wait for it then go buy a 5800 series GPU from AMD, they are very good cards and nothing to sneeze at. Peace out.
 
What is ATI's next gen architecture and how does it compare with Fermi (if there is any info on it). I don't follow gaming news but I'm sure we won't see most games taking advantage of this till at least 2011.
 
Harry1969 said:
As someone who's patiently waiting for Fermi am I the only one who's pissed off about what Nvidia pulled last Night? There was no NDA being lifted or performance numbers or even pricing. I mean WTF was that? A bunch of stupid triangle polygon marketing BS that's supposed to sound impressive? What other company would try to pull that shit?
It came off as nothing more than a desperate attempt to get buyers to hold off purchasing a 5800 series card a little longer. What a huge dissapointment. I don't know about you but I don't like being jerked around like that. Fuck you Nvidia! fuck you up your stupid ass!
Click to expand...

I hope you are not serious cause if you are, forget about video cards and use your money to go to a psychologist or something....Jesus....repeat with me.,..it is just a piece of hardware..... ;)
 
Ati doesn't have to worry about anything. Charlie (of internet fame) has posted rough costs of both the 5970 worse case pricing and nvidia's best case pricing. THese are prices to nvidia and ati mind you not to board producers who will have to buy them with ati's and nvidia's profits accounted for. Also he is talking for the lower shader part and not the 512 shader part.

According to the analyses I have seen, yes it does. If you go by raw silicon costs, Fermi is ~$150 (104 die candidates per $5000 wafer, 30% yield (I am being overly generous here, far less for a 512 shader part) gets you ~$160), add in $10 for packaging and testing, $20 for a PCB (lots of routing for 384b memory, but cheaper than GT280), $20 for board components, $25 for HSF, $10 for assembly, and $39 for 12 GDDR5 chips ($3.25 per for low bins, if they up the bin, add $6 or so). That gets you to $274 raw cost, no FOB, no profit, not assembly failures etc.
Click to expand...

and here is hemlock or 5970

Then look at Hemlock. Silicon costs about $45 per Cypress die ($5000 wafer w/160 die candidates per (it is actually higher) @70% yield (conservative not estimate) ~= $44.6, real numbers are better than that), $90 for the pair. Add $7.50 per, $15 total for packaging and testing (no lid, much smaller die, far fewer traces, better dot pitch, less power, much lower package board count etc), $25 for the PCB (probably cheaper than GF100's but lets be negative), $30 for board components, $25 for the HSF, and $15 for assembly. Add 16 GDDR5 chips (At $3.50 per - one price tier up from Fermi's) for $56 and you are at $256.
Click to expand...

IF you look the dies for the 5870 cost only $45 vs $150 for fermi. Cost reducing your also saving half the money for ram so thats $28. All the costs of hemlock will be lower after that due to the single 5870 using less power , a cheaper cooler and cheaper pcb. So the cost of a 5870 is less than $150 . Of course ati wants to profit on it and so do the board makers. But considering that Charlie is pegging the slower fermi at $270.

In addition the 5870 is a smaller , cooler and less power hungry chip and its yields will continue to improve much faster than the fermi which has almost 1b tranistors on it more than the cypress parts.

So ati may not even compete with nvidia untill they can get out cheaper mid range chips.
 
Where does he get 70% yield figure for Ati ? And if it's so high then why the hell there's so short supply of 5850/5870 parts.
 
Michaelius said:
Where does he get 70% yield figure for Ati ? And if it's so high then why the hell there's so short supply of 5850/5870 parts.
Click to expand...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1382342&postcount=797

Its from informatoin he has seen.

Remember this is cypress's yields as of late not at launch and also remember ati has to balance their chips from the $100 5670 all the way up to the 5970 and wafers take awhile to go from the start of the line to the back. Then factor in they have new mobile chips also being produced on the 40nm process at tsmc

also the 5870 and 5850 seem to be in stock eveywhere and have been now for awhile. newegg has just 1 5850 and 1 5870 out of stock the rest are all in stock.

Ibelieve ati has announced that they have sold 2m dx 11 parts as of the start of january with shipping over 1m of them in the month of december. So yields are obviously much improved for ati.

Ati is also using cores that do not work %100 of the time and by that I mean they are disabling tmus and shader cores and reducing the clock speed to create the 5850 and thus are most likely able incease yields. They will be able to once again do that with 5830 .

The rumor for that is a $240 price point. However some have stated it will be closer to $200 and will sit right over the 5770 and the 4890 in performance.


The rumor sites are reporting that we wont even see the high end fermi till June with the lower end coming late march early april (which other bigger sites also saying late march for the part)
 
WabeWalker said:
There's a big enough problem already with the 5970. You can't buy one.
Click to expand...

They are very hard to find but you can get them. Remember its the single fastest card by a large margin and even at the $600-700 they run its still much cheaper to the consumer than crossfire 5870s at $400-430
 
Charlie is being overly negative as expected as the board (i.e. everything but the chip) is in many ways similar to the GTX 260 with DDR5 memory and that certainly wasn't that expensive to make given how cheap they were selling in the end.

The one expensive item is the chip, same as in the 5970 (which needs two).
He has the 5890 chips at a very optimistic 70% yield, and the fermi ones at 30%. While the chips size is different I wouldn't expect that big a variation - fermi is harder to make but not that much harder. Elsewhere I read the ati chips were at 40% and the fermi ones at 25% - that sounds much more likely. That makes a huge difference to costs making the ati chip much more expensive.

Anyway these are only very early yield figures, as the process matures yields will go up. Soon we'll have the ati chips at more like 80% and the fermi at say 70%. At that point fermi is more like $50 a chip and prices closer to what the GTX 2xx and radeon 4xxx achieved should be possible.
 
MrCrispy said:
What is ATI's next gen architecture and how does it compare with Fermi (if there is any info on it). I don't follow gaming news but I'm sure we won't see most games taking advantage of this till at least 2011.
Click to expand...

ATI wont be bothered by FERMI , they already have a huge advantage on every level with their DX11 boards.

ATI can still ramp up speed on the current design for maybe 2 years without maxing out.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
ATI wont be bothered by FERMI , they already have a huge advantage on every level with their DX11 boards.

ATI can still ramp up speed on the current design for maybe 2 years without maxing out.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree. ATI's marketshare can disappear in a nanosecond for DX11 boards.

They are over priced at the moment and they are severely market constrained as it is. Sure, if you are willing to pay and are timing your purchase, you can find one, but that situation is anything but ideal for market share.

Right now, ATI rules the roost, there's no doubt about that, but counting NV out is foolish.
 
pasta4u said:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1382342&postcount=797
Ati is also using cores that do not work %100 of the time and by that I mean they are disabling tmus and shader cores and reducing the clock speed to create the 5850 and thus are most likely able incease yields. They will be able to once again do that with 5830 .
Click to expand...

How is it diffrent from nvidia ? Nvidia has some smart guys too who know how to optimize usage of not fully working chips as we can judge from GT200 family (gtx 260, 275, 285) or from G80 cases (8800gs, 8800gt, 8800 gts 512 etc), and we already know they will have GTX 360 and GTX 380 cards at launch (and probably another lower end card after months).

What I'm wondering is the 70% figure he used for calculation since we haven't seen it anywhere in the net it means that either he has some insider sources or just pulled it out of air.
 
sbuckler said:
Charlie is being overly negative as expected as the board (i.e. everything but the chip) is in many ways similar to the GTX 260 with DDR5 memory and that certainly wasn't that expensive to make given how cheap they were selling in the end.

The one expensive item is the chip, same as in the 5970 (which needs two).
He has the 5890 chips at a very optimistic 70% yield, and the fermi ones at 30%. While the chips size is different I wouldn't expect that big a variation - fermi is harder to make but not that much harder. Elsewhere I read the ati chips were at 40% and the fermi ones at 25% - that sounds much more likely. That makes a huge difference to costs making the ati chip much more expensive.

Anyway these are only very early yield figures, as the process matures yields will go up. Soon we'll have the ati chips at more like 80% and the fermi at say 70%. At that point fermi is more like $50 a chip and prices closer to what the GTX 2xx and radeon 4xxx achieved should be possible.
Click to expand...


given the size difference in the chips, it is very possible that the yeilds can be that far apart. as the size goes up does the the possibility of 1 defect ruining the chip/ a part of it (depending upon where it is) This is why they are modular in design as if you get one messed up core, it can be disabled without discarding the chip. IF the defect occurs in a part of the chip that cannot be disabled, then the the whole thing is buggered and the bigger the chip the more likely it is.
 
crackbone said:
I'd disagree. ATI's marketshare can disappear in a nanosecond for DX11 boards.

They are over priced at the moment and they are severely market constrained as it is. Sure, if you are willing to pay and are timing your purchase, you can find one, but that situation is anything but ideal for market share.

Right now, ATI rules the roost, there's no doubt about that, but counting NV out is foolish.
Click to expand...

Absolutely... I'm not a "fanboy" of either company, though I will readily admit I prefer nVidia for their drivers, but ATI's position is tenuous at best right now. Their cards at around $420 for a decent brand + shipping are not that far off from a hypothetical GTX 360 at $450-500 in price that, if the performance info pans out, would be quite superior. Combine that with the earlier availability issues that had a lot of people waiting till now to make a purchase decision, and that "7-month lead" is really more like a 2-month one if we see availability by late March (it's already Jan. 19th, now... and the ATI 5870's have only been readily available for the last few days). I'm going to be selling or ebaying my 5870 in the near future, probably a couple of weeks, and just wing it for a month with a 9800GT until the Fermi launch. Nothing's as solid as we'd like yet, but it's not that much more mysterious than the 5870 was prior to its launch in my opinion.
 
Why is it that ATi people are, all of a sudden, getting all defensive and arguementitive.

In the last month or two we've gone from "hahahah, Nvidia is going out of business, ATi pwnz!!!11!1!1" to, "yeah...well.....just because it's facts and benchmarks doesn't mean it's true...".


Humans are interesting. Instead of saying, "well, those benchs prove what just about everyone suspected, the Fermi was going to be faster. Thank God it's out, ATi prices should drop", now some ATi people are foaming at the mouth trying to discredit Nvidia performance info at every corner.

Give it up, everyone. This is a win for all of us. Green people finally get their cards, Red people get price drops and a refresh.

Why argue?
 
realitycheck said:
Why is it that ATi people are, all of a sudden, getting all defensive and arguementitive.

In the last month or two we've gone from "hahahah, Nvidia is going out of business, ATi pwnz!!!11!1!1" to, "yeah...well.....just because it's facts and benchmarks doesn't mean it's true...".


Humans are interesting. Instead of saying, "well, those benchs prove what just about everyone suspected, the Fermi was going to be faster. Thank God it's out, ATi prices should drop", now some ATi people are foaming at the mouth trying to discredit Nvidia performance info at every corner.

Give it up, everyone. This is a win for all of us. Green people finally get their cards, Red people get price drops and a refresh.

Why argue?
Click to expand...

I'd say it's the opposite. Ati's cards are like 6 months old. Not quite sure someone would care if a card this late can beat something that's going to be replaced soon.

Fermi might be 20-30% faster then a 5870? I'm not overly impressed by that. I'm less impressed by the fact there is nothing showing anything about what it is capable of. It's kind of disturbing at this point.

I don't care who makes my hardware, as long as it fits my price range. I'm not a fan of semiaccurate at all, but everything off that site about these cards seems likes it is exactly how it's going to turn out.
 
TomGreen321 said:
I'd say it's the opposite. Ati's cards are like 6 months old. Not quite sure someone would care if a card this late can beat something that's going to be replaced soon.

Fermi might be 20-30% faster then a 5870? I'm not overly impressed by that. I'm less impressed by the fact there is nothing showing anything about what it is capable of. It's kind of disturbing at this point.

I don't care who makes my hardware, as long as it fits my price range. I'm not a fan of semiaccurate at all, but everything off that site about these cards seems likes it is exactly how it's going to turn out.
Click to expand...

Heh, this is exactly what realitycheck was talking about... people defend and make excuses for ATI as though it were themselves ("nothing showing anything!!!!" "ati's are 6 months old, so who cares???" "it's going to be replaced soon by a refresh!!!!") :).
 
TomGreen321 said:
Fermi might be 20-30% faster then a 5870? I'm not overly impressed by that. I'm less impressed by the fact there is nothing showing anything about what it is capable of. It's kind of disturbing at this point.
Click to expand...

Fermi overall is going to be at least 20% to 30% and maybe even more so depending on the game. That ain't bad.
 
TomGreen321 said:
I'd say it's the opposite. Ati's cards are like 6 months old. Not quite sure someone would care if a card this late can beat something that's going to be replaced soon.

Fermi might be 20-30% faster then a 5870? I'm not overly impressed by that. I'm less impressed by the fact there is nothing showing anything about what it is capable of. It's kind of disturbing at this point.

I don't care who makes my hardware, as long as it fits my price range. I'm not a fan of semiaccurate at all, but everything off that site about these cards seems likes it is exactly how it's going to turn out.
Click to expand...
Excellent points, and more or less my sentiments. Even if these performance results are accurate and indicative of overall performance (which is a long shot), 20% or even 30% isn't impressive - it's what I'd expect given the time frame. We also don't know much about power consumption, overclockability, or aesthetics (noise, etc.). Fermi so far isn't impressive except for the fact that market prices might be lowered due to their finally being some competition from NVIDIA. If AMD has a refresh ready to go, even better, something else to look at. Anyway, the completely lack of competition is disturbing, good word choice.

Another interesting note is that despite how people interpret them, these rumor sites post just that, rumors. I find it interesting how accurate many of these rumors were this time around.

GoldenTiger said:
Heh, this is exactly what realitycheck was talking about... people defend and make excuses for ATI as though it were themselves ("nothing showing anything!!!!" "ati's are 6 months old, so who cares???" "it's going to be replaced soon by a refresh!!!!") :).
Click to expand...
No, you are exactly what realitiycheck was talking about, only on the NVIDIA side of things. Tom made some very thoughtful and logical statements. You're foaming at the mouth attacking anyone who doesn't love Fermi. Ironic, no?
 
Mr. K6 said:
No, you are exactly what realitiycheck was talking about, only on the NVIDIA side of things. Tom made some very thoughtful and logical statements. You're foaming at the mouth attacking anyone who doesn't love Fermi. Ironic, no?
Click to expand...

Step 1) Re-read my post...

Step 2) ...

Step 3) Profit!

I attack all fanboys equally ;).
 
GoldenTiger said:
Step 1) Re-read my post...

Step 2) ...

Step 3) Profit!

I attack all fanboys equally ;).
Click to expand...
1) Re-read mine.
2) Understand your deficiencies with the English language and communication in general.
3) ...
4) Profit.

TomGreen established himself as unbiased and none of his comments contradict that position. So you're not even attacking "fan boys," you just have a bad case of verbal diarrhea.
 
kllrnohj said:
Except the GF100 isn't competing with the 5870, it is competing with the 5970.

And if you look at their review of the 5970, it was hitting 114 fps at 1920x1200 4xAA but at Very High instead of Ultra High, which was a ~13fps hit for the 5870. So Ultra High needs to be a 30 fps hit for the 5970 just for the GF100 to break even and it needs to be a 20 fps hit at 2560x1600 w/ 4xAA.

Something tells me that the GF100 is going to be a massive letdown.
Click to expand...

It is doing no such thing. Fermi is a Single GPU card and will be targeted at 5870. Nvidia, when they launch their Dual Fermi card, will be targeted at 5970 or its refresh.
 
pasta4u said:
Ati doesn't have to worry about anything. Charlie (of internet fame) has posted rough costs of both the 5970 worse case pricing and nvidia's best case pricing. THese are prices to nvidia and ati mind you not to board producers who will have to buy them with ati's and nvidia's profits accounted for. Also he is talking for the lower shader part and not the 512 shader part.



and here is hemlock or 5970



IF you look the dies for the 5870 cost only $45 vs $150 for fermi. Cost reducing your also saving half the money for ram so thats $28. All the costs of hemlock will be lower after that due to the single 5870 using less power , a cheaper cooler and cheaper pcb. So the cost of a 5870 is less than $150 . Of course ati wants to profit on it and so do the board makers. But considering that Charlie is pegging the slower fermi at $270.

In addition the 5870 is a smaller , cooler and less power hungry chip and its yields will continue to improve much faster than the fermi which has almost 1b tranistors on it more than the cypress parts.

So ati may not even compete with nvidia untill they can get out cheaper mid range chips.
Click to expand...

His only let down tho, is that historicly, Nvidia pays TSMC per good die that comes from the wafer, not for the whole wafer it self and I dont see this as having changed. So there costs per die are not what he thinks they pay.
 
Mr. K6 said:
1) Re-read mine.
2) Understand your deficiencies with the English language and communication in general.
3) ...
4) Profit.

TomGreen established himself as unbiased and none of his comments contradict that position. So you're not even attacking "fan boys," you just have a bad case of verbal diarrhea.
Click to expand...

Personal insults tend to be used when there's no compelling argument you can provide. Just thought I'd drop that tidbit for you ;). In any case, he clearly was, despite proclaiming himself a non-fanboy, making up every excuse he could think of to "defend ATI at all costs!!!!11one" as though he were being attacked himself by Fermi. Believe me, I'll be there with everyone else attacking Fermi if it sucks, but at this point of time it looks just as good as the 5870 did pre-launch, which I cheered on anticipating it greatly (simply look through my post history with the search term 5870 if you doubt that).
 
Mr. K6 said:
Excellent points, and more or less my sentiments. Even if these performance results are accurate and indicative of overall performance (which is a long shot), 20% or even 30% isn't impressive - it's what I'd expect given the time frame. We also don't know much about power consumption, overclockability, or aesthetics (noise, etc.). Fermi so far isn't impressive except for the fact that market prices might be lowered due to their finally being some competition from NVIDIA. If AMD has a refresh ready to go, even better, something else to look at. Anyway, the completely lack of competition is disturbing, good word choice.

Another interesting note is that despite how people interpret them, these rumor sites post just that, rumors. I find it interesting how accurate many of these rumors were this time around.


No, you are exactly what realitiycheck was talking about, only on the NVIDIA side of things. Tom made some very thoughtful and logical statements. You're foaming at the mouth attacking anyone who doesn't love Fermi. Ironic, no?
Click to expand...


20-30% over the 5870 for a card using a chip that doesn't have 100% of it enabled is impressive as it shows even the non fully functional Fermi chips are abe to best a Single Cypress chip. Just think what could be for the full fledged thing given the rumors that the 512SP part is to be clocked higher.
 
XMAN245 said:
20-30% over the 5870 for a card using a chip that doesn't have 100% of it enabled is impressive as it shows even the non fully functional Fermi chips are abe to best a Single Cypress chip. Just think what could be for the full fledged thing given the rumors that the 512SP part is to be clocked higher.
Click to expand...

All indications are that the 20-30% average is for the 512SP part. It wouldn't make any sense for the 448SP part, as it would mean a 50% increase for the 512SP part. I very much doubt you will see the kind of improvement from Fermi to 5870 on average that the 5870 sees over the 4890 (+- 10%). In their benchmarks nVidia never specified that it was the GTX 360 that was giving that kind of improvement in Far Cry & Uniengine. Let's go ahead and assume that if they could talk those benches up more, they would have.

And it isn't very impressive considering that Fermi has 50% more transistors, although obviously if the price is correct it won't matter for anyone beside nVidia and the server-class market.

edit: It isn't right to take Razor1's comments on B3D and use them as fact, just like it isn't a great idea to take ChrisRay's comments on Fermi too seriously. The latter is the same person that said all of our questions would be answered come the Sunday reveal, and that Fermi is so great, that the people who doubt nVidia's focus on the consumer games market will be silenced. Then the reveal happens and he backpedals immediately. It's the same reason you shouldn't read Charlie's comments as absolute fact. The difference is guys like Chris Ray have some more credibility, but are actually significantly more biased towards one company. Not to pick on him, but he is close enough to nVidia that I wouldn't go by his notions. I'm not sure where Razor gets his information, but it doesn't seem to be right in this case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
akotlar said:
All indications are that the 20-30% average is for the 512SP part. It wouldn't make any sense for the 448SP part, as it would mean a 50% increase for the 512SP part. I very much doubt you will see the kind of improvement from Fermi to 5870 on average that the 5870 sees over the 4890 (+- 10%). In their benchmarks nVidia never specified that it was the GTX 360 that was giving that kind of improvement in Far Cry & Uniengine. Let's go ahead and assume that if they could talk those benches up more, they would have.

And it isn't very impressive considering that Fermi has 50% more transistors, although obviously if the price is correct it won't matter for anyone beside nVidia and the server-class market.
Click to expand...

in other words: 6+ months and counting late and only 20-30% to show for it. This is assuming we believe the latest PR Nvidia rigged fronted benchmarks.
 
Last edited:
XMAN245 said:
His only let down tho, is that historicly, Nvidia pays TSMC per good die that comes from the wafer, not for the whole wafer it self and I dont see this as having changed. So there costs per die are not what he thinks they pay.
Click to expand...

And history will show Fermi got much less yields per wafer than ever before.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Personal insults tend to be used when there's no compelling argument you can provide. Just thought I'd drop that tidbit for you ;). In any case, he clearly was, despite proclaiming himself a non-fanboy, making up every excuse he could think of to "defend ATI at all costs!!!!11one" as though he were being attacked himself by Fermi. Believe me, I'll be there with everyone else attacking Fermi if it sucks, but at this point of time it looks just as good as the 5870 did pre-launch, which I cheered on anticipating it greatly (simply look through my post history with the search term 5870 if you doubt that).
Click to expand...
You know nothing about the card. You have one benchmark of one game from in-house testing and you're foaming at the mouth about it. You're either a fanboy or need to get out more (or both, for that matter). And furthermore, if you're going to attack people who present logical arguments, it just lessens your stance.

My point is there's not enough information to be "impressed" with. I mean, I can crank the clocks on my 5870 to 1GHz+ and get some insane FPS. Does Fermi overclock as well or is it a dog in this area? What's power consumption like in comparison, especially once overclocked? How's the noise? Is it easy to mod? Does it come with software voltage regulation? How does NVIDIA's software triple display feature work when compared to Eyefinity? How about some Crysis benchmarks? How about other, non-NVIDIA endorsed games? What's the performance like in those? No information, not worth getting excited.
XMAN245 said:
20-30% over the 5870 for a card using a chip that doesn't have 100% of it enabled is impressive as it shows even the non fully functional Fermi chips are abe to best a Single Cypress chip. Just think what could be for the full fledged thing given the rumors that the 512SP part is to be clocked higher.
Click to expand...
That's assuming these results are indicative of overall performance. The 5870 was rumored to be a lot faster than it was once real world testing looked at it. Sure the driver revisions since launch have brought it up another 5% or so, but IIRC, there were benchmarks showing it solidly beating the GTX295, where as in real life they just trade blows. Like I said, I'm not impressed yet, once you subtract buzz, hype, bias, and the lack of any decent information, there's not much left.
 
Mr. K6 said:
You know nothing about the card. You have one benchmark of one game from in-house testing and you're foaming at the mouth about it. You're either a fanboy or need to get out more (or both, for that matter). And furthermore, if you're going to attack people who present logical arguments, it just lessens your stance.

No information, not worth getting excited.


My point is there's not enough information to be "impressed" with. I mean, I can crank the clocks on my 5870 to 1GHz+ and get some insane FPS. Does Fermi overclock as well or is it a dog in this area? What's power consumption like in comparison, especially once overclocked? How's the noise? Is it easy to mod? Does it come with software voltage regulation? How does NVIDIA's software triple display feature work when compared to Eyefinity? How about some Crysis benchmarks? How about other, non-NVIDIA endorsed games? What's the performance like in those? No information, not worth getting excited.


That's assuming these results are indicative of overall performance. The 5870 was rumored to be a lot faster than it was once real world testing looked at it
Click to expand...

We know as much about the card as we did the 5870 pre-launch, which I also was excited about because the "rumors" generally are real info.

The bolded part is simply not true, and your inquisition is irrelevant to performance which is what this thread is about.

P.S. More personal insults/strawmen? Seriously, calm down dude.
 
XMAN245 said:
It is doing no such thing. Fermi is a Single GPU card and will be targeted at 5870. Nvidia, when they launch their Dual Fermi card, will be targeted at 5970 or its refresh.
Click to expand...

I think this depends on the price. If GF100 == 600$ its meant to compete with the 5970, if its 400$ its meant to compete with teh 5870
 
H-street said:
I think this depends on the price. If GF100 == 600$ its meant to compete with the 5970, if its 400$ its meant to compete with teh 5870
Click to expand...

I, and many others, couldn't care less about dual GPU regardless of the pricing ;).
 
GoldenTiger said:
I, and many others, couldn't care less about dual GPU regardless of the pricing ;).
Click to expand...

I agree with you about dual cards.


But I and many others could care less about any card that uses 250watts or more and is priced above $300.

The only interest in those cards I have are when they come down in price.


Besides the 5870 launched the end of sept. The end of march will be 6 months. Do you think ati wont have a refresh that is more in line with nvidias parts at that point ? All this time nvidia has been using to make the chip run better and get better yields , amd has been doing the same thing. They have been looking at the cypress and where bugs are and what they can fix with a simple respin and they will respin and clock higher and have better yields with less power than what they got back in sept and it will compete with what nvidia has in march.
 
pasta4u said:
I agree with you about dual cards.


But I and many others could care less about any card that uses 250watts or more and is priced above $300.

The only interest in those cards I have are when they come down in price.


Besides the 5870 launched the end of sept. The end of march will be 6 months. Do you think ati wont have a refresh that is more in line with nvidias parts at that point ? All this time nvidia has been using to make the chip run better and get better yields , amd has been doing the same thing. They have been looking at the cypress and where bugs are and what they can fix with a simple respin and they will respin and clock higher and have better yields with less power than what they got back in sept and it will compete with what nvidia has in march.
Click to expand...

True on that, just saying that people's preferences vary and you can't use price as the only thing.

As far as the 5870, yes I am sure they will have a refresh, and I sure as heck hope they do :D... because that will lower prices all around and make for better competition if ATI/nV both have good cards out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top