Silent PC build help needed - Linux

[MountainX]

I'm looking for component recommendations. I have replied to all the questions from the sticky. See my notes below those replies for more details.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

I need good, crisp, clear text display (for software development and technical writing work). I will be driving two 23" widescreen monitors via DVI.

This is a general purpose PC I also use for watching videos, browsing web and working with fairly large spreadsheets, etc.

I usually have about 30 - 40 tabs open in Firefox. Every day I hit the limits of my current PC in terms of speed and memory because of the way I use Firefox. My current PC has 4 GB of RAM and it scores pretty low on browser benchmarks. I'd like something that will be near the top of the browser benchmark charts and that won't run out of memory when I have a lot of tabs open.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

$1000 approx. (No monitors or keyboard required.)

I have a little flexibility on the budget. If going with a more expensive part now means that I won't have to upgrade again quite as soon, then I can justify spending a little more now. I would like to have this PC last me for 4-5 years. The one I'm using now is about that old and it has served me well. I used good quality components when I built it and they have only become too slow/limited in the last year. I'd like to get that kind of service life out of this next build.

3) Where do you live?

USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

- quiet case
- mobo
- CPU
- silent CPU heatsink
- quiet case fans (or no fans?)
- video card
- SSD
- RAM
- power supply
- CD/DVD writer
- SD card reader
- sound (mobo built-in is probably OK)
- speakers (2 + 1 probably OK)
- blue tooth
- mobo extension (PCI card?) for enabling case access to all USB and other ports
- thermal compound?


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Two HP L2335 23" DVI LCD monitors (and cables). Keyboard and mouse (USB). Nothing else (except my desk and chair).

6) Will you be overclocking?

No.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

I have two HP L2335 23" LCDs.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Within a week.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

Not sure about Crossfire or SLI.
Not sure about Intel vs. AMD.
Yes, firewire would be nice, but it is not absolutely required.
Dual GigE ports would be nice. One GigE is a must.
Plenty of USB ports is important - at least 6.
RAID is not required. I plan to use one SSD (30 GB or larger). Everything else will be accessed via NFS. (I have a 2 TB file server on GigE.)
See notes below for more thoughts.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? 32bit or 64bit?

Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) 64-bit. (I'll have to check my license key...)

In particular, I want to be sure suspend/resume and hibernate will work with Ubuntu. <--- MOST IMPORTANT (besides silence).

Summary:

completely silent (at least as quiet as my iMac 11,1 with an SSD -- it is not even possible to tell when my iMac is turned on or off if the screen is blank.)
fanless video card that will support dual DVI monitors at 1920 x 1200 (and more) each.
6 GB or more RAM
1 SSD (about 60 GB, such as OCZ Vertex II)
CD-RW / DVD-RW Dual Layer
Bluetooth
Dual GigE ports
lots of USB ports (6 or more would be good)
SD card reader
decent audio/sound card (high end not required)
no monitors
no keyboard
no mouse
no joystick
no accessories
bonus if it has an RS232 serial port

 

[defaultluser]

Okay, since you want a quiet PC, we need to start by MINIMIZING your power consumption. That means you give me a little more information, and I can hook you up.

FIRST:

Do you plan on playing any games? Also, do you plan on buying monitors soon with more than 1920x1200 resolution? Because if you don't, you can just use on-board video, and save yourself the extra power (and noise) of a discrete card.

You can also upgrade the graphics card any time you like, if you get the itch to do more.

NEXT:

For your usage scenario, an Intel Core i5 dual-core would be the absolute best fit.

Firefox and OOO both are single-threaded, so you shouldn't waste your time with a quad core that's got a slower clock speed. Instead, go get the fastest Core i5 dual-core you can get for a reasonable price (think Core i5 660). It will feel zippy when running single apps, and has 4 threads and a large cache so you won't feel bogged-down even in a heavily-loaded scenario. Maybe someone else can make a convincing argument for a quad core, but I really don't see one.

If you get a Core i5, you can pair it with an H55 mainboard and get dual digital video outputs for the absolute lowest power consumption possible.

I don't have time to design your system right now, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.

 

[Dangman]

Hmmm, this is definitely gonna be a troublesome build.

BBL with a build after I do a bit more research. Your requirements for Linux compatibility and near silence is gonna take some research.

Though I can recommend some parts now as they don't deal with either Linux compatibility or silence:
$140 - 2 x G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$145 - OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SSD

8GB of RAM to start with as well as that 60GB SSD you wanted. Do note that you should have at least the Linux 2.6.33 kernel for TRIM support for that SSD. Otherwise, you're gonna see a degradation in performance over time.

I'd go with the quad-core route simply because it's gonna benefit you in the long run as Firefox and OOO will probably get better multi-core support in the next few years. IN addition, it does sound like you multi-task a lot and a dual-core may not be the right fit here. IMO, the i5 6xxx linup are simply overpriced for a bloody dual-core CPU.

 

[MountainX]

Okay, since you want a quiet PC, we need to start by MINIMIZING your power consumption. That means you give me a little more information, and I can hook you up.

FIRST:

Do you plan on playing any games? Also, do you plan on buying monitors soon with more than 1920x1200 resolution? Because if you don't, you can just use on-board video, and save yourself the extra power (and noise) of a discrete card.

You can also upgrade the graphics card any time you like, if you get the itch to do more.

NEXT:

For your usage scenario, an Intel Core i5 dual-core would be the absolute best fit.

Firefox and OOO both are single-threaded, so you shouldn't waste your time with a quad core that's got a slower clock speed. Instead, go get the fastest Core i5 dual-core you can get for a reasonable price (think Core i5 660). It will feel zippy when running single apps, and has 4 threads and a large cache so you won't feel bogged-down even in a heavily-loaded scenario. Maybe someone else can make a convincing argument for a quad core, but I really don't see one.

If you get a Core i5, you can pair it with an H55 mainboard and get dual digital video outputs for the absolute lowest power consumption possible.

I don't have time to design your system right now, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.

I do not plan on playing any games. None.

I'll keep my current monitors for at least another year. But I'm not sure I would trust onboard video to render really crisp/clear text and to power compiz, video watching, web browsing and other stuff I like to do. Do you know of an onboard video card that is just as good as this one?
ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

But you do have a good point about being able to upgrade the video card later too.

Regarding multiple cores, doesn't Chrome run each tab in a separate process? Wouldn't each one be able to take advantage of its own processor thread? And I suspect Firefox 4 is going in this same direction, although I haven't been reading on this topic at all.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Dangman]

Regarding multiple cores, doesn't Chrome run each tab in a separate process? Wouldn't each one be able to take advantage of its own processor thread? And I suspect Firefox 4 is going in this same direction, although I haven't been reading on this topic at all.

Yes each tab is a seperate process
Yes each one can take advantage of its own processor thread
Firefox is headed in that direction:
http://www.taranfx.com/firefox-to-go-multi-threaded-for-multicores

 

[MountainX]

Hmmm, this is definitely gonna be a troublesome build.

BBL with a build after I do a bit more research. Your requirements for Linux compatibility and near silence is gonna take some research.

I know it is beyond my skills, which is why I came here! Looking forward to your recommendations. Thanks.

Though I can recommend some parts now as they don't deal with either Linux compatibility or silence:

Thank you. Yes, Ubuntu 10.10 has kernel 2.6.35, so I'm good there. I appreciate your recommendation on the memory and your confirmation on the SSD. I'll go with 8 GB RAM, as you suggest.

I appreciate your feedback about quad core CPUs and my common sense makes me agree with you, although I don't know the nitty gritty details. But I want the system to hold its own over the coming years and your advice will help me in that department.

 

[Dangman]

I know it is beyond my skills, which is why I came here! Looking forward to your recommendations. Thanks.

All right here's the deal: It looks like Linux support for current AMD and Intel platforms are fairly good these days. Unforuntately, I cannot find a single Linux hardware review showing whether or not suspend/resume and hibernate will work well with current Intel or AMD motherboards.

All right here's how the build looks now:
$140 - 2 x G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$145 - OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SSD
$22 - LG iHAS124-04 DVD Burner
$140 - SeaSonic X650 Gold 650W PSU
$135 - Antec P183 ATX Case
$22 - 5 x 120mm Yate Loon D12SL-12 Case Fan
$9 - BYTECC 6 ft. HDMI Male to DVI-D Male Single Link Cable Model HDMID-6
$13 - Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound
$35 - Logitech S-220 2.1 Speaker System
$14 - Sabrent CRW-UINB 68-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 Port
$15 - Asus USB-BT211 USB 2.0 Mini Bluetooth Dongle
---
Total: $690 plus tax and shipping

Yeah you might need to expand your budget a little. I have verified that those parts are Linux compatible. Now you have to figure which CPU you want to go with as that's gonna determine what motherboard, what HSF, and what video card you need to buy.

 

[MountainX]

Now you have to figure which CPU you want to go with as that's gonna determine what motherboard, what HSF, and what video card you need to buy.

How about this one?
Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930
$288

The way I picked it was simple: it is the least expensive LGA 1366 CPU I saw

I'm sure I would also be happy with this one:
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX
$260

I like AMD, but I notice that the Intel consumes less power. That might be important in a silent system (to keep fan noise down). If those CPUs generate too much heat, I could scale back. What do you recommend?

It would be nice to have a CPU and mobo combo that supports really fast RAM (DDR 3 2000+ ???)

And yeah, it does seem like I'm going to have to increase my budget!

 

[Dangman]

For your needs, the Core i7 930 is simply not a good buy. So forget that.

The 109T is completely overpriced. It's only 400Mhz faster yet costs $60 more than the Phenom II 1055T. That extra 400Mhz is not worth $60.

Both the Phenom II X6 CPUs and the Core i7 CPUs draw about the same amount of power.

Personally, I'd go with the Phenom II 1055T just to have six cores. However defaultluser might disagree with me on that.

 

[MountainX]

Personally, I'd go with the Phenom II 1055T just to have six cores. However defaultluser might disagree with me on that.

I wouldn't mind seeing options (CPU, mobo, etc.) for both Intel and AMD... but I think I would be happy with the Phenom II 1055T since you think that's the best option for my needs. It does seem to hit a sweet spot on price/performance.

 

[flexcore]

If you subscribe to newegg promo(eblast?) they have
gskill 2 x 4GB 1600 cas 9 for $155
Mushkin 2 x 4GB 1333 cas 9 for $132
Seasonix X650 for $110

I just picked up the the gskill and the X650. Pretty good deals. Promo last till 10/20 I think.

 

[defaultluser]

Personally, I'd go with the Phenom II 1055T just to have six cores. However defaultluser might disagree with me on that.

You bet I disagree with that call. If we're gonna push the multi-core, let's compromise on Core i5 760 and call it a day. It has the lowest idle power consumption of the current quad cores, and it offers 3.46 GHz turbo frequency, which destroys the 3.3 GHz turbo of the 1055T (best for single-threaded apps like he uses).

Six cores are great to have, but if you never use them, they just sit around all day sucking-down power. If you insist on more than two cores for running Firefox and Calc, Quad is the sweet-spot in performance/watt, and will be much easier to silence.

 

[MountainX]

If you subscribe to newegg promo(eblast?) they have
gskill 2 x 4GB 1600 cas 9 for $155
Mushkin 2 x 4GB 1333 cas 9 for $132
Seasonix X650 for $110

I just picked up the the gskill and the X650. Pretty good deals. Promo last till 10/20 I think.

Those are good deals. Thanks. I guess I'll have to subscribe to that list...

 

[MountainX]

You bet I disagree with that call. If we're gonna push the multi-core, let's compromise on Core i5 760 and call it a day. It has the lowest idle power consumption of the current quad cores, and it offers 3.46 GHz turbo frequency, which destroys the 3.3 GHz turbo of the 1055T (best for single-threaded apps like he uses).

Six cores are great to have, but if you never use them, they just sit around all day sucking-down power. If you insist on more than two cores for running Firefox and Calc, Quad is the sweet-spot in performance/watt, and will be much easier to silence.

I did notice that the i7 was reported to have lower power consumption. That interests me of course.

It seems like a tough call on the CPU. In the end, I'll have to rely on the advice of you guys. However, the two overriding factors for me will be silence and ability to suspend/hibernate. If I got X% better performance from one CPU or the other, I still would not be happy with the PC if I didn't achieve those two objectives.

The trouble is there seem to be no reports about suspend/hibernate for various CPU/mobo/OS combos.

 

[Dangman]

You bet I disagree with that call. If we're gonna push the multi-core, let's compromise on Core i5 760 and call it a day. It has the lowest idle power consumption of the current quad cores, and it offers 3.46 GHz turbo frequency, which destroys the 3.3 GHz turbo of the 1055T (best for single-threaded apps like he uses).

Six cores are great to have, but if you never use them, they just sit around all day sucking-down power. If you insist on more than two cores for running Firefox and Calc, Quad is the sweet-spot in performance/watt, and will be much easier to silence.

All right I can agree with that.

But just to give an idea of what to look for, I'm also providing setups for the Core i5 6xx route and the Phenom 1055T route:

$270 - Intel Core i5 650 CPU + Gigabyte GA-H55M-USB3 Intel H55 mATX Motherboard
$65 - Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler
$15 - Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan
----
Total: $350 plus tax and shipping

$270 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T CPU + Asus M4A88T-M AMD 880G mATX Motherboard
$45 - eVGA 512-P3-1213-LR GeForce 210 512MB PCI-E Video Card
$65 - Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler
$9 - Prolimatech ARM-02 AMD Mounting Bracket Kit for AM2/AM2+/AM3
$15 - Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan
---
Total: $404 plus tax and shipping.

$285 - Intel Core i5 750 CPU + Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 Intel P55 ATX Motherboard Combo
$45 - eVGA 512-P3-1213-LR GeForce 210 512MB PCI-E Video Card
$65 - Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler
$15 - Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan
---
Total: $410 plus tax and shipping

All three builds will require that HDMI to DVI cable I listed earlier. As you can see, the price difference between the Core i5 750 and the Phenom II 1055T is fairly small. I did not go with AMD GPUs because it seems that suspend/hibernate is broken with the latest AMD linux drivers. Yes that GPU is fanless.The Prelimatech is one of the better heatsinks out there that'll still cool well even when paired with a low RPM/CFM fan. Therefore it's a quiet heatsink.

With that said, if you really need to shave off some cash and don't mind a little bit more noise, go with this HSF instead:
$45 - Sycthe MUGEN-2 Rev B - 5 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler

The stock fan is supposedly very quiet

 

[MountainX]

I did not go with AMD GPUs because it seems that suspend/hibernate is broken with the latest AMD linux drivers.

Wow, thank you for pointing that out!

Couple questions:

1. Why do you recommend the EVGA 512-P3-1213-LR instead of this one?

ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

2. I think I'll spend the extra dollars for the Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler. Do you find it to be difficult to install? Do you think it would work in other cases (e.g., Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case)?

 

[Dangman]

Wow, thank you for pointing that out!

Couple questions:

1. Why do you recommend the EVGA 512-P3-1213-LR instead of this one?

ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

2. I think I'll spend the extra dollars for the Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler. Do you find it to be difficult to install? Do you think it would work in other cases (e.g., Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case)?

1) I trust eVGA more than Zotac. And the eVGA card has the better price to performance ratio

2) From what I can see, not that hard to install. Should work in the P182 but I should double check that.

 

[MountainX]

What do you guys think of this shopping cart?

Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1
BYTECC 6 ft. HDMI Male to DVI-D Male Single Link Cable Model HDMID-6
Item #: N82E16812270113
$5.99

1
Antec P183 Black Aluminum / Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811129061
-$50.00 Instant
$129.99

1
ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
Item #: N82E16814500159
$72.99

1
Logitech S-220 17 Watts 2.1 Multimedia Speaker System - OEM
Item #: N82E16836121014
$27.99

1
SABRENT CRW-UINB 68-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 Port supports SDHC/VISTA
Item #: N82E16820300608
$14.00

1
ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound
Item #: N82E16835186020
$9.98

2
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL
Item #: N82E16820231310
$139.98
($69.99 each)

1
ASUS USB-BT211 USB 2.0 Mini Bluetooth Dongle
Item #: N82E16833320057
-$5.00 Instant
$14.99

1
Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler
Item #: N82E16835242001
-$7.99 Instant
$62.00

1
OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820227550
-$15.00 Instant
$144.99

1
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80605I5750
Item #: N82E16819115215

GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813128425

-$20.00 Instant
-$14.99 Combo
$284.99

Subtotal: $907.89
Shipping: $21.62
Promo Code: $0.00
Grand Total: $929.51

I'd like to make the substitutions mentioned by flexcore when I sign up for the promo list (which I'll do right away):

gskill 2 x 4GB 1600 cas 9 for $155
Seasonix X650 for $110

A few more comments:

The case: I had asked about the P182 case. I heard it was very quiet. I looked at the reviews of the Antec P183 and one guy said it was an improvement over the P182 in a lot of ways. But other reviews said it is not silent. So I'm not sure which case to go with. Is there any case that would be even quieter???

The video card: I'm leaning toward the Zotac for a little more performance. Basically, I want the best fanless/silent video card I can get, even if it the price/performance ratio declines a bit.

CD/DVD writer: I see I left that out of my cart by mistake. I'll find Danny Bui's recommendation and look at it. I want to make sure it writes to -R as well as +R discs...

Is the ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound worth it? Or should I just use what comes with the Prolimatech Megahalems?

Finally, if I add $150 to this total, what would be the best upgrade(s)?

 

[hybry]

What will you use it for?

And you might look at some aftermarket HSF for GPU, Cooler master acelero, is an option. Should let you go better GPU.

 

[Dangman]

The case: I had asked about the P182 case. I heard it was very quiet. I looked at the reviews of the Antec P183 and one guy said it was an improvement over the P182 in a lot of ways. But other reviews said it is not silent. So I'm not sure which case to go with.

It's a quiet case. You just gotta stick quiet fans with it. The stock fans are ok but not as quiet as the Yate Loon fans I listed above. Between the P183 and P182, there's actually no clear winner as shown here:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=68

Is there any case that would be even quieter???
....
Finally, if I add $150 to this total, what would be the best upgrade(s)?

Combined these two since they're related:
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$250 - Silverstone Fortress Series FT02B ATX case

Supposedly quieter cases than than the P183. A thread on that:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60221

The video card: I'm leaning toward the Zotac for a little more performance. Basically, I want the best fanless/silent video card I can get, even if it the price/performance ratio declines a bit.

Performance for what though? The Zotac really is a bad buy from a price to performance ratio considiring that you can get a significantly faster card for not much more:
$100 - Gigabyte GV-N98TSL-1GI GeForce 9800 GT 1GB Fanless PCI-E Video Card

Is the ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound worth it? Or should I just use what comes with the Prolimatech Megahalems?

Use what comes with the Prolimatech. The stock stuff is pretty decent.

 

[mutantmagnet]

*scratches head*

Maybe I'm missing something. But why make the expense on a P55 motherboard and a dedicated graphics card when the most extraneous program he'll be using is a web browser? The ram is important and depending on the browser the multiple cores is important but I don't see the justification for the graphics card.

Sure it's mandatory because the P55 doesn't support integrated graphics but that is what the H57 and Q57 motherboards are for (and they also support dual display outputs).

Frankly since Intel hasn't lit my fire on their integrated solutions up until Sandy Bridge started being previewed I would recommend you forget about the graphics card and go AMD.

You'll need an AMD motherboard with the 880G or 890GX chipset.

If you insist on using Intel make sure you get a CPU that also has an integrated graphics chip like the i5-650 otherwise you'll need a dedicated card.

 

[Dangman]

*scratches head*

Maybe I'm missing something. But why make the expense on a P55 motherboard and a dedicated graphics card when the most extraneous program he'll be using is a web browser?

Several reasons actually for the Core i5 750 + dedicated GPU route, most of which has been covered in this thread:
- Apparently, the suspend/resume and hibernate function involving AMD GPUs is broken with the last few releases of AMD's linux drivers. That covers both onboard and dedicated GPUs actually. The OP's main requirement is fully functional suspend/resume and hibernate. As such the AMD + onboard GPU is probably not the best route for the OP

- The OP wishes to connect two monitor's via DVI or digital connections. AMD's current onboard GPUs do not support dual digital connections. Sad I know but that's the case. Only dedicated and the GPUs that comes with Clarksdale CPUs support that. Hence the dedicated card for the i5 750 and Phenom II route

- The i5 750 does use less power than the AMD Phenom II 1055T at both idle and full load. The dedicated GPUs mentioned so far don't take that much power at idle. The 9800GT, the highest end card here, only uses 23W on idle Windows 7 desktop load

- The i5 750 was chosen as a compromise between myself and defaultluser's debate of which CPU was the right choice for the OP: the i5 650 or the Phenom 1055T. He and I both had valid arguments for either setup. In the end, defaultluser came with the Core i5 750 as a compromise between the i5 650 and Phenom II 1055T in terms of price, performance, future usage, power consumption, noise, and cooling.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Your point is partially correct with the lack of dual display support. The Radeon 4290 in the 890GX unlike the previous models has dual display support but it is limited in the outputs you can use. The more salient point is the linux drivers problem.

Regardless I would think Intel's integrated solution is sufficient for the task. And while the 650 trades off dedicated cores for threaded cores, it manages to use even less power while running faster than the 750. On top of that he could cut his PSU cost to a third by getting a fanless PicoPSU. Getting the X-650 for $110 is a great bargain but if you can discard the dedicated card his power requirements are so low he can forgo what would become an unnecessary expense.

On second thought I would get the 650 only because I prefer having headroom if I was to add additional components in the future but that's my bias.

 

[MountainX]

Several reasons actually for the Core i5 750 + dedicated GPU route, most of which has been covered in this thread:
- Apparently, the suspend/resume and hibernate function involving AMD GPUs is broken with the last few releases of AMD's linux drivers. That covers both onboard and dedicated GPUs actually. The OP's main requirement is fully functional suspend/resume and hibernate. As such the AMD + onboard GPU is probably not the best route for the OP

- The OP wishes to connect two monitor's via DVI or digital connections. AMD's current onboard GPUs do not support dual digital connections. Sad I know but that's the case. Only dedicated and the GPUs that comes with Clarksdale CPUs support that. Hence the dedicated card for the i5 750 and Phenom II route

- The i5 750 does use less power than the AMD Phenom II 1055T at both idle and full load. The dedicated GPUs mentioned so far don't take that much power at idle. The 9800GT, the highest end card here, only uses 23W on idle Windows 7 desktop load

- The i5 750 was chosen as a compromise between myself and defaultluser's debate of which CPU was the right choice for the OP: the i5 650 or the Phenom 1055T. He and I both had valid arguments for either setup. In the end, defaultluser came with the Core i5 750 as a compromise between the i5 650 and Phenom II 1055T in terms of price, performance, future usage, power consumption, noise, and cooling.

That's a good summary. I think you hit every point - especially silence and the importance of suspend/resume and hibernate.

Actually, if anything, I would go for a more powerful system, not a less powerful one. For example, when I compile, run and debug a software application in an IDE those small amounts of time spent waiting add up over the course of fixing a bug. They can actually add up to extra hours to fix a problem.

For example, I might be trying to fix a bug and while I have the IDE open I also have 20 or more tabs in a web browser open, just on that one subject, as I research the problem online and try solutions, going through the edit, compile, run, test scenario many times. I also have chat going with my co-workers, email, task lists, etc. I use my computers really heavily. And I demand really clear, crisp text display (which isn't something the average monitor/graphics card always does well). To pick out my HP L2335 monitors involved going to different stores and looking at the displays side-by-side until I found one that had the quality I wanted.

Actually, as I remind myself of my needs, I remember why I started off thinking I wanted the most powerful system I can build that is also dead silent. That's still how I feel.

My priorities are:
1. silence
2. suspend/resume, hibernate with Linux
3. really great display quality for my usage (programming, web browsing, writing)
4. and then as much power as possible within that context and my budget.

Based on what we have so far, I'm willing to spend a little more (maybe on RAM or CPU or mobo or even a more silent case).

 

[defaultluser]

Your point is partially correct with the lack of dual display support. The Radeon 4290 in the 890GX unlike the previous models has dual display support but it is limited in the outputs you can use. The more salient point is the linux drivers problem.

Regardless I would think Intel's integrated solution is sufficient for the task. And while the 650 trades off dedicated cores for threaded cores, it manages to use even less power while running faster than the 750. On top of that he could cut his PSU cost to a third by getting a fanless PicoPSU. Getting the X-650 for $110 is a great bargain but if you can discard the dedicated card his power requirements are so low he can forgo what would become an unnecessary expense.

On second thought I would get the 650 only because I prefer having headroom if I was to add additional components in the future but that's my bias.

Well yes, but I already made this argument earlier in the thread. You should try reading it sometime

The OP would be fully-covered by H55 plus Clarksdale Intel HD Graphics, but Danny believes that more than 2 cores is essential, and he might be right (if the OP runs multiple programs at-once that suck-down resources). On the flip-side, the OP is upgrading from a P4, so an extremely fast dual-core (with 4 threads) may seem like a huge upgrade already.

I'm not going to fight over this, because Intel is stupid and won't cut the price of their Clarksdale Core i5 parts to better-compliment the Core i5 750 quad-core. If you could get a high-clocked Core i5 Clarksdale for $150, this conversation would be over...the incredibly low power consumption plus amazing single-thread performance would be a steal at that price. But you can't buy this part below $200, so the debate rages on

 

[MountainX]

Well yes, but I already made this argument earlier in the thread. You should try reading it sometime

The OP would be fully-covered by H55 plus Clarksdale Intel HD Graphics, but Danny believes that more than 2 cores is essential, and he might be right (if the OP runs multiple programs at-once that suck-down resources). On the flip-side, the OP is upgrading from a P4, so an extremely fast dual-core (with 4 threads) may seem like a huge upgrade already.

I'm not going to fight over this, because Intel is stupid and won't cut the price of their Clarksdale Core i5 parts to better-compliment the Core i5 750 quad-core. If you could get a high-clocked Core i5 Clarksdale for $150, this conversation would be over...the incredibly low power consumption plus amazing single-thread performance would be a steal at that price. But you can't buy this part below $200, so the debate rages on

Thanks for helping me further understand the component trade-offs. I do feel multiple cores will be a help. For example, in the scenario above, which I do every day, I am doing debugging in an IDE while researching the problem in a web browser (lots of tabs is the rule) while chatting with others about the bug, and emailing related documents, and much, much more. I keep a lot of applications open all the time.

In fact, the reason suspend and resume are important to me is that when I stop work for the day, I will always have a lot of things that are still in progress (bugs not fixed, etc.) and a lot of open applications dealing with finding those solutions. I might have 20 or more windows open all related to that one thing I'm working on. Closing all that down and then reopening it when I come back to work is a pain. So I just suspend my computer instead of turning it off. Sometimes I don't turn my computer off for months at a time.

BTW, here's my current setup. I'm not running a P4, but still this upgrade will be substantial.
1. a very powerful file server with tons of storage (I won't go into the hardware details, but that system was built with help from this forum several years ago).
2. an iMac 11,1 27" with an OCZ Vertex 2 SSD. I use this for software development and testing because we support Mac users and I'm the one who does testing on the Mac.
3. a PC with the following original specs:

ASUS A8N5X 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
ZALMAN CNPS7700-CU 120mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan - Retail
NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A - OEM
ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2.0GHz Socket 939 Dual-Core Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail
4 GB RAM = CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 500 (PC 4000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWINX2048-4000PT - Retail
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
AOpen Cobra AW850 5.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
PNY VCQ4285NVS-PCIE-PB Quadro4 NVS285 64MB 64-bit DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

Then (in 2008) I upgraded the video card to this one:
MSI NX8600GT-T2D256EZ GeForce 8600 GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Support Video Card

This PC served me well for a number of years, but now it is painfully slow.

The iMac actually performs pretty well (although it always runs out of RAM and starts swapping). The thing I love about the iMac with the SSD is that it is dead silent. If the screen is blank you cannot even tell when it is turned on or off. I'm trying to match that level of silence with this PC.

 

[defaultluser]

Okay then, the i5 750 or 760 sounds like a great upgrade for you. Be sure to pair it with an SSD plus 8GB ram, and you should have no more performance issues.

 

[MountainX]

Between the P183 and P182, there's actually no clear winner as shown here:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=68

Combined these two since they're related:
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$250 - Silverstone Fortress Series FT02B ATX case

Supposedly quieter cases than than the P183. A thread on that:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60221

Thanks for those great links and the other info on cases.

But, wow, I am totally unable to decide now between the P182, P183, the FT02, or the SILVERSTONE RV02B-W.

I'm not gaming. That should help the decision some. I want the quietest case and I definitely don't want to have to create an ugly beast like this guy did. I've done some case modding in the past, and I would prefer something really clean and simple inside, something easy to work on too.

Does that help as far as recommending one of these four cases to me?
P182
P183
FT02
RV02B-W

 

[MountainX]

Basically, I'm concerned that this card won't have enough performance:
EVGA 512-P3-1213-LR GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to spend a little more for something "better" (whatever better might mean).

For the video card in this build, I think it comes down to these two choices:
1. GIGABYTE GV-N98TSL-1GI GeForce 9800 GT 1GB Silent Cell 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

2. ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

Here are two opinions I'm weighing heavily:

Performance for what though? The Zotac really is a bad buy from a price to performance ratio considiring that you can get a significantly faster card for not much more:
$100 - Gigabyte GV-N98TSL-1GI GeForce 9800 GT 1GB Fanless PCI-E Video Card

And here's what a buddy told me about his opinion on these two cards:

If you are not gaming and you want a quiet system, IMO,the GT220/GT240 are better choices. Less heat output (125/105 watts TDP for the 9800GT, 69watts for the GT240, 58 for the GT220). So you wont need to spin the fans as fast to keep cool, and they have more VDPAU features (9800, feature set 'a', GT220/240, feature set 'c'). I could go on about that, but its easier just to see here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo

The VDPAU feature set interests me (for watching videos).

It seems to me that the ZOTAC GT 220 is the better choice. Now I realize that I'm going off limited understanding because I have never used any of these cards. So... anyone want to say anything more on this subject or should I just go for the ZOTAC GT 220?

 

[MountainX]

I'm going to try to order this stuff today. While reading about the cases, I noticed that people mention the Antec PSU very favorably. The SeaSonic was recommended to me in this thread and no one mentioned the Antec.

If I go with a P182 or P183 case, which PSU would be better?

Antec CP-850 850W Continuous Power CPX SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC "compatible with Core i7" Power Supply

SeaSonic X650 Gold 650W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

 

[Dangman]

Thanks for those great links and the other info on cases.

But, wow, I am totally unable to decide now between the P182, P183, the FT02, or the SILVERSTONE RV02B-W.

I'm not gaming. That should help the decision some. I want the quietest case and I definitely don't want to have to create an ugly beast like this guy did. I've done some case modding in the past, and I would prefer something really clean and simple inside, something easy to work on too.

Does that help as far as recommending one of these four cases to me?
P182
P183
FT02
RV02B-W

Kind of. The P18x series is a tad harder to work with than most cases but the payoff is lower noise levels. Also note that not all P18x users mod their case like that example. Take a look at the 37 page (using the 40 posts per page option in the forum's setting) and 1444 posts P18x gallery thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1186892

Most of those builds are clean and simple. Personally for me, I'd go with the P183 for performance reasons and the P182 for aesthetic reasons. In fact, the main reason why I would go with the P183 performance wise is because you don't have to do any modding to fit in a 120mm fan in the lower HDD bay like you would with the P180 and P182 cases. I've never been convinced about the effectiveness of placing the 120mm fan behind the lower HDD bay. Then there's the open grills for the front of the case as well as on the door itself which does help with cooling.

However I would choose the P182 for aesthetic for two reasins:
- I like the clean look of the P182's door. The vents on the P183's door makes it look ugly IMO
- Unlike many people, I actually did like the look of that rear angled shroud thing that the P180 and P182 had.

Also note that since you're not going for a multi-GPU config, the FT02 might be a bit of waste.

Your friend is correct on many points. However one key questiion, that I've asked earlier, hasn't been answered: Performance in WHAT?

For the kind of usage you've described, I don't see any reason to go with the GT 220 over the GT 210, which was my original recommendation.

The Seasonic hands down.

 

[MountainX]

I agree with you about the superior (IMO) aesthetics of the P182. Unfortunately, the P182 is selling for $20 more than the P183 at NewEgg or it would be an easier decision in favor of the P182...

Would any (or all) of the following components be smart upgrades?

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s

Intel Core i5-760 (over the i5-750)

Going up to 16 GB RAM -- e.g. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9Q-16GBRL

I'm really inclined to at least increase the RAM to 12 or 16 GB.

With those parts, my total shopping cart is about $1250 (incl shipping). That's a bit more than I had budgeted, but I can swing it if the upgrades are worthwhile.

Regarding the video card, I will go with the ZOTAC ZT-20204-20L GeForce GT 220 because it also represents a middle choice: cheaper than the Gigabyte 9800 GT but more expensive than the GT 210 you originally recommended. That might not be the best logic but its a middle ground I'm happy with. So I think the video card issue is settled.

You settled the PSU question for me: Seasonic it is.

For the case, I'll see if I can find a deal on the P182. Otherwise, I'll go with the P183.

I'm still tinkering with the CPU, mobo and RAM. But you did convince me in favor of the i5 -- either a 750 or 760.

All the other parts will be the ones recommended earlier. (Should I post my latest shopping cart?)

 

[Dangman]

That mobo is not a smart upgrade. Neither is the i5 760 over the i5 750 or that G.Skill 16GB RAM set. If you realy want 16GB of RAM and have the money for it, I recommend just getting four sets of the 4GB RAM stick I recommended earlier for a total of 16GB RAM. It'll come out to $280, $70 cheaper than that G.Skill 16GB RAM set for the exact same RAM.

 

[MountainX]

That mobo is not a smart upgrade. Neither is the i5 760 over the i5 750 or that G.Skill 16GB RAM set. If you realy want 16GB of RAM and have the money for it, I recommend just getting four sets of the 4GB RAM stick I recommended earlier for a total of 16GB RAM. It'll come out to $280, $70 cheaper than that G.Skill 16GB RAM set for the exact same RAM.

mobo: OK, thank you.

i5 750: OK, I'll go with that one.

RAM: I mistakenly thought the RAM you recommended was 2 x 2GB, which (if it had been true) would have have allowed me to fit 16 GB. So I went back and changed my shopping cart to the 4 sticks of the [G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL] and it is indeed cheaper.

Now my total (with shipping) is $1095. I think I can shave a few dollars off that with the Seasonic promo.

Thanks Danny Bui and everyone at [H]. This is going to be an awesome upgrade for me. I feel really good about it after all the advice I received here. Thank you!!!

 

[Dangman]

Good luck with the build!

 

[MountainX]

I'm back already with another question...

The GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P has 6gb/s sata. If I went with this SSD:

Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAA064MAG-1G1 1.8" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

then would the combination ssd + mobo be a good upgrade?

(Only problem is I haven't checked to see if there are any Linux support issues with the Crucial SSD yet and I'm running out of time if I want to order this today or tomorrow. But getting 6gb/s sata performance would be great.)

 

[Dangman]

I'm back already with another question...

The GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P has 6gb/s sata. If I went with this SSD:

Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAA064MAG-1G1 1.8" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

then would the combination ssd + mobo be a good upgrade?

(Only problem is I haven't checked to see if there are any Linux support issues with the Crucial SSD yet and I'm running out of time if I want to order this today or tomorrow. But getting 6gb/s sata performance would be great.)

The answer is still no. There's a better motherboard with SATA 6Gb/s for $20 less:
$360 - Intel Core i5 750 CPU + Asus P7P55D-E Pro Intel P55 ATX Motherboard Combo

With the above Asus and a 2.5" Crucial SATA 6Gb/s SSD, then the upgrade will be worth it. I'm not too familiar with the 1.8" Crucial but I know that the 2.5" versions are good.

 

[MountainX]

The answer is still no. There's a better motherboard with SATA 6Gb/s for $20 less:
$360 - Intel Core i5 750 CPU + Asus P7P55D-E Pro Intel P55 ATX Motherboard Combo

With the above Asus and a 2.5" Crucial SATA 6Gb/s SSD, then the upgrade will be worth it.

Awesome. Thank you!

I'm not too familiar with the 1.8" Crucial but I know that the 2.5" versions are good.

OK. The very first review on NewEgg was from someone running Ubuntu with this drive and he gave it 5 eggs, so that answers my concerns about Linux compatibility.

He mentions "Micro Adapter required" but I'm not sure what item to order for that adapter. So... back to NewEgg

 

[mutantmagnet]

Well yes, but I already made this argument earlier in the thread. You should try reading it sometime

I was skimming it focusing on the Mountain X's posts to get an idea of where the conversation was going. My bad on that part.

The OP would be fully-covered by H55 plus Clarksdale Intel HD Graphics, but Danny believes that more than 2 cores is essential, and he might be right (if the OP runs multiple programs at-once that suck-down resources). On the flip-side, the OP is upgrading from a P4, so an extremely fast dual-core (with 4 threads) may seem like a huge upgrade already.

Well Danny is right about the extra cores being helpful but I feel the options on how to allocate the budget are wider than previously dsicussed.

Now that the OP mentions he spends his time programming I would insist he scale back the money on the gpu and get an even better CPU because it will help with his productivity.

 

[Dangman]

Now that the OP mentions he spends his time programming I would insist he scale back the money on the gpu and get an even better CPU because it will help with his productivity.

Note that the GT 210 is the cheapest fanless card from a reputabe manufacturer I could find that had dual digital outputs. Also note that even if the OP scales the CPU down from current choice of the GT 220 down to the GT 210 he chose, he's only saving about $30. That $30 isn't gonna dramatically widen up the range of CPU choices the OP is gonna get.