Shut Down Your Console To Save The Planet

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BillR said:
Please, I implore you, tell us all..Exactly what special knowledge you possess that no one else in this forum or perhaps the world has?

Well gee, if everyone made more power then they consumed why would we need a grid? Hell, keep the grid and take the credit for perpetual motion.

Humm, population control…

Kill off the old folks or do more abortions?

Selective breeding would be a much better choice don’t you think?

Have you ever followed your family tree? Do the names Hitler or Mengele show anywhere?
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I graduated top of my class in bioengineering. Most biologists, even with PhDs, know very little about computers, physics, and math. They aren't the most impressive of people.

I don't even know where/how to respond to your second comment. My point was the less power we use the less fossil fuels get burned no matter how you cut it. To respond to your off topicness/ nonsense : a grid would still be helpful to keep things stable.

Personally, I think we should do very early screenings and abort children with severe handicaps. And I think we should allow parents to choose which egg and which sperm of theirs they want to use so that they can have the best possible child. You can call that selective breeding but it would be by the parents, and I think it's a much better idea than leaving things to chance. And the rest of the world should look closely at China's one child policy.
 
w1retap said:
Where I work, we don't put out any of your precious greenhouse gases. I have no secret Bush tied underground vast right wing conspiracy destroy the planet ulterior motives. rofl..
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Come on, admit it, you are still full of anger over the whole Blu Ray thing Lol.;)

On a more serious note, in my lifetime a cure was found for Polio and a few other things many people will never have the horror of remembering. Prior to that we killed the Plague, Small Pox Diphtheria and a lot of other things we a children were vaccinated against and people act like there is nothing ever going to be cured again.


Many are so confidant they refuse to have their own children immunized. That is arrogance and stupidity at its finest.:rolleyes:
 
flegg said:
Personally, I think we should do very early screenings and abort children with severe handicaps. And I think we should allow parents to choose which egg and which sperm of theirs they want to use so that they can have the best possible child. You can call that selective breeding but it would be by the parents, and I think it's a much better idea than leaving things to chance. And the rest of the world should look closely at China's one child policy.
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wow... just wow. That's sickening and really fucking disturbing. Sig heil to you too.. :rolleyes:
 
flegg said:
I graduated top of my class in bioengineering. Most biologists, even with PhDs, know very little about computers, physics, and math. They aren't the most impressive of people.

I don't even know where/how to respond to your second comment. My point was the less power we use the less fossil fuels get burned no matter how you cut it. To respond to your off topicness/ nonsense : a grid would still be helpful to keep things stable.

Personally, I think we should do very early screenings and abort children with severe handicaps. And I think we should allow parents to choose which egg and which sperm of theirs they want to use so that they can have the best possible child. You can call that selective breeding but it would be by the parents, and I think it's a much better idea than leaving things to chance. And the rest of the world should look closely at China's one child policy.
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I see where youre coming from wrt to children with severe handicaps-- you'd be saving them from a lifetime of hardship as well. China, though, has a draconian policy where they impinge on human rights on a daily basis-- dont know if we want them as our role models.

How do you feel about stem cell research? Glad to see that its going to be federally funded now that Bush is gone.
 
A-L-E-X said:
Ive heard of this before, and the critics of this report say that most of these scientists arent even involved in any climate-related field.
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Scientists have their own agenda. The pro-anthropogenic global warming scientists wouldn't get their boatloads of grant money if they didn't keep up their own mantra. You should really get to work on working toward regulating the sun and evaporation on a global scale. Time is running out.
 
w1retap said:
wow... just wow. That's sickening and really fucking disturbing. Sig heil to you too.. :rolleyes:
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I dont know about China's one child policy-- but I can see where someone should have a choice about whether they want to have a child born with severe defects. It should be up to the parents, though, since they will be taking care of him/her.

I also dont think that women on welfare should be allowed to have children ad infinitum while the taxpayer pays for them all.
 
w1retap said:
There's no need to make personal attacks here. You keep shifting ideas and arguing in circles every time you get trapped. The idea of controlling our planet's climate is utterly hilarious. We can't even predict the weather accurately 24hrs in advance. The last thing I want to do is let some elitist say they can accurately control the entire earth's climate to what they deem is an acceptable level. I'll leave the earth to take care of itself. Go back to blaming everything on George Bush and turn off your computer to save the planet. Do us all that favor at least. :rolleyes:
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Dude...I see points in what you're both trying to say...but seriously...this guy hasn't changed the point he's trying to make in any shape or fashion. I think you're interpreting the same thing over and over in a different way each time. Or something. I've also noticed that you keep mentioning "debunking" peoples theories and opinions, and also you mention "every time you get trapped." Do you honestly think you are "winning" some kind of argument? The fact that most of us are throwing our OPINIONS on the issue around debunks YOUR theory that you're in some kind of "lead" here just owning everyone or something. Honestly, man, let some ego go, it's making your once valid OPINIONS that much less valid. Keep the debate going, but refrain from attempting to glorify yourself in every post you make with an "I WIN!!" statement.
 
A-L-E-X said:
I dont know about China's one child policy-- but I can see where someone should have a choice about whether they want to have a child born with severe defects. It should be up to the parents, though, since they will be taking care of him/her.

I also dont think that women on welfare should be allowed to have children ad infinitum while the taxpayer pays for them all.
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Yeah, we should strive towards a super race where there is no imperfect people. Everyone should create their children just how they want them. Oh wait...
 
I just said to look closely at it the one-child policy, I definitely disagree with adopting it, especially the way it as been implemented in China.

Call me a Nazi if it keeps your heart warm and makes you feel like you're a better person.

Unfortunately people capable of realizing the tough realities we face have a responsibility not to do the same.
 
stop!theradio said:
Dude...I see points in what you're both trying to say...but seriously...this guy hasn't changed the point he's trying to make in any shape or fashion. I think you're interpreting the same thing over and over in a different way each time. Or something. I've also noticed that you keep mentioning "debunking" peoples theories and opinions, and also you mention "every time you get trapped." Do you honestly think you are "winning" some kind of argument? The fact that most of us are throwing our OPINIONS on the issue around debunks YOUR theory that you're in some kind of "lead" here just owning everyone or something. Honestly, man, let some ego go, it's making your once valid OPINIONS that much less valid. Keep the debate going, but refrain from attempting to glorify yourself in every post you make with an "I WIN!!" statement.
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And I thought I made it my point right from my first post, that both sides (AGW and non AGW) have both valid points and points of contention-- the debate has become so politicized (talking on the national scale), that its hard to separate truth from agenda sometimes. The fact is that its highly unlikely that the extremes on either side are right-- when has that ever happened? Is there AGW probably. Are theire natural cycles? Of course. Is it possible that AGW merely enhances the effect of the natural cycles? Most likely. I saw a graph earlier that showed the temp. rise over the past 200 years or so and how its accelerated when incoming solar radiation was highest (the sun goes through cycles as well-- linked to sunspots). It seems that the last temp spike, though, has decoupled from its previous link to incoming solar radiation and the sunspot sycle-- that is, the former seems to be rising while the latter is stagnant.

Is this definite evidence of the impact of AGW? No, of course not. But it would be putting your head in the sand to say that AGW doesnt exist. More study is necessary. But, in the meanwhile, we should be developing alternate fuel sources with all haste, even nuclear energy, for a variety of reasons like I said (foreign dependency, environmental impact of drilling, and the fact its going to run out within 100 years anyway.) And by the time defining proof comes for AGW, it may be too late to do anything about it.
 
stop!theradio said:
Dude...I see points in what you're both trying to say...but seriously...this guy hasn't changed the point he's trying to make in any shape or fashion. I think you're interpreting the same thing over and over in a different way each time. Or something. I've also noticed that you keep mentioning "debunking" peoples theories and opinions, and also you mention "every time you get trapped." Do you honestly think you are "winning" some kind of argument? The fact that most of us are throwing our OPINIONS on the issue around debunks YOUR theory that you're in some kind of "lead" here just owning everyone or something. Honestly, man, let some ego go, it's making your once valid OPINIONS that much less valid. Keep the debate going, but refrain from attempting to glorify yourself in every post you make with an "I WIN!!" statement.
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No, arguing on the internet brings no satisfaction. There is no winner. When blatant falsehoods and scientific quasi anomalies are argued as fact, it just really loosens all credibility of future debate with an individual. Now as we see, we're having people shift their argument yet again and running full circle to wanting to create super races of perfect people like Adolf Hitler wanted to do. You mean to tell me that you don't find any of this comedic yet disturbing?
 
flegg said:
I graduated top of my class in bioengineering. Most biologists, even with PhDs, know very little about computers, physics, and math. They aren't the most impressive of people.

I don't even know where/how to respond to your second comment. My point was the less power we use the less fossil fuels get burned no matter how you cut it. To respond to your off topicness/ nonsense : a grid would still be helpful to keep things stable.

Personally, I think we should do very early screenings and abort children with severe handicaps. And I think we should allow parents to choose which egg and which sperm of theirs they want to use so that they can have the best possible child. You can call that selective breeding but it would be by the parents, and I think it's a much better idea than leaving things to chance. And the rest of the world should look closely at China's one child policy.
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“I graduated top of my class in bioengineering.” Congratulations, that does not answer the question though does it?

“Nonsense”, well ok I guess, but a grid does nothing more than create multiple weak spots, hardly conducive to stability.

As to your last comment, there isn’t much to say really…somewhere in your past the genetic links I mentioned do seem to exist.

With little argument from you I could put together a really good case to bioengineer people from scratch but Monty Python already did that.
 
flegg said:
I just said to look closely at it the one-child policy, I definitely disagree with adopting it, especially the way it as been implemented in China.

Call me a Nazi if it keeps your heart warm and makes you feel like you're a better person.

Unfortunately people capable of realizing the tough realities we face have a responsibility not to do the same.
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Seriously, I don't need to better a better person for realizing super races and extermination of people to control population is the wrong way to go about humanity.
 
w1retap said:
Yeah, we should strive towards a super race where there is no imperfect people. Everyone should create their children just how they want them. Oh wait...
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See, here is another example of where youre discrediting yourself. Who said anything about a super race? I was (as I said) talking about children that might be born with severe handicaps AND also said the choice should be left up to the parents, since they would be the caregivers. Do you always like twisting other people's words around?
 
w1retap said:
Yeah, we should strive towards a super race where there is no imperfect people. Everyone should create their children just how they want them. Oh wait...
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You are horribly generalizing. Improving the overall genetics of the human population is hardly a bad thing. You think everyone should be born with PKU, down syndrome, etc?

We aren't talking about creating one super race that is "superior." We are talking about keeping but improving all of the current races. There is no such thing as a superior or inferior race, because who is to say what is better or worse. But there are definitely some genes out there that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
 
w1retap said:
No, arguing on the internet brings no satisfaction. There is no winner. When blatant falsehoods and scientific quasi anomalies are argued as fact, it just really loosens all credibility of future debate with an individual. Now as we see, we're having people shift their argument yet again and running full circle to wanting to create super races of perfect people like Adolf Hitler wanted to do. You mean to tell me that you don't find any of this comedic yet disturbing?
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Of course it's comedic - but so is someone who's running around "debunking" opinions. ;) Your falsehoods and scientific quasi anomalies are just as valid as the next persons.
 
A-L-E-X said:
See, here is another example of where youre discrediting yourself. Who said anything about a super race? I was (as I said) talking about children that might be born with severe handicaps AND also said the choice should be left up to the parents, since they would be the caregivers. Do you always like twisting other people's words around?
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It isn't the actions of individuals. It is the idea of one's mind. The whole idea of eliminating disabilities, handicaps, or imperfections through means of scientific and population control is a super race idea. Saying "oh, it would of course be up to the individual" doesn't mean anything. The idea stemmed from a single individual's brain to conjure up that idea.
 
flegg said:
I just said to look closely at it the one-child policy, I definitely disagree with adopting it, especially the way it as been implemented in China.

Call me a Nazi if it keeps your heart warm and makes you feel like you're a better person.

Unfortunately people capable of realizing the tough realities we face have a responsibility not to do the same.
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You are aware that China’s one child policy has degenerated in to boy children only, right? They are breeding slaves and with all of your higher education you seem to think that is a good idea.

Frankly people like you scare the living crap out of me.
 
flegg said:
I just said to look closely at it the one-child policy, I definitely disagree with adopting it, especially the way it as been implemented in China.

Call me a Nazi if it keeps your heart warm and makes you feel like you're a better person.

Unfortunately people capable of realizing the tough realities we face have a responsibility not to do the same.
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The Nazi thing is a well-known style of argument used to inflame an emotional response when one has nothing to argue with.

Honestly, I can see where youre coming from, but you do have to argue against the extremes... on either side. It seems that others are ignorant of that, or so stubborn and willful that they consider themselves the omniscient authority on everything and anyone who disagrees with them is an extremist. Gee, where have we seen that before--- ding, ding, ding, a certain departing president who sees people of the opposing viewpoints as "enemies of the state."
 
flegg said:
You are horribly generalizing. Improving the overall genetics of the human population is hardly a bad thing. You think everyone should be born with PKU, down syndrome, etc?

We aren't talking about creating one super race that is "superior." We are talking about keeping but improving all of the current races. There is no such thing as a superior or inferior race, because who is to say what is better or worse. But there are definitely some genes out there that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
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Wait, lol.. let me get this right. You're wanting to "better" or "improve" a race, but not call it a super race? LOL. Hold on, let me walk into a bank and just take some money. Taking is stealing.

I believe people should be born without having to genetically engineer them or eliminate them at the possibility they might be flawed.
 
w1retap said:
It isn't the actions of individuals. It is the idea of one's mind. The whole idea of eliminating disabilities, handicaps, or imperfections through means of scientific and population control is a super race idea. Saying "oh, it would of course be up to the individual" doesn't mean anything. The idea stemmed from a single individual's brain to conjure up that idea.
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The people, especially “We the People” would never have a say, the Government would have control of that in a heartbeat, if they don’t already.
 
A-L-E-X said:
The Nazi thing is a well-known style of argument used to inflame an emotional response when one has nothing to argue with.

Honestly, I can see where youre coming from, but you do have to argue against the extremes... on either side. It seems that others are ignorant of that, or so stubborn and willful that they consider themselves the omniscient authority on everything and anyone who disagrees with them is an extremist. Gee, where have we seen that before--- ding, ding, ding, a certain departing president who sees people of the opposing viewpoints as "enemies of the state."
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Actually, the argument that was portrayed is an exact match of an idea of a certain 1930's movement. Let's all avoid saying "Nazi" or "fascism" because certain people have to ignore history to get along with their lives, only to be condemned to repeat those ideas.
 
w1retap said:
It isn't the actions of individuals. It is the idea of one's mind. The whole idea of eliminating disabilities, handicaps, or imperfections through means of scientific and population control is a super race idea. Saying "oh, it would of course be up to the individual" doesn't mean anything. The idea stemmed from a single individual's brain to conjure up that idea.
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Its not a "super race" when youre just trying to decide whats best for your (potential) children. Im talking about children with severe mental retardation who probably wouldnt ever be able to take care of themselves and might not even live to the age of 20. Im not talking about imperfections, or things like eye color, hair color, or shallow "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kind of stuff. Its a real challenge for parents to decide-- do they want the responsibility of having to take care of someone who might not even live out to adulthood and/or might never be able to take care of themselves.

Yeah, we have to guard against this going to the extreme and people trying to "customize" their children-- but, I think in certain limited cases, you can use it to decide if its worth it to put a child through that kind of hardship, as well as the rest of the family.
 
BillR said:
“I graduated top of my class in bioengineering.” Congratulations, that does not answer the question though does it?

“Nonsense”, well ok I guess, but a grid does nothing more than create multiple weak spots, hardly conducive to stability.

As to your last comment, there isn’t much to say really…somewhere in your past the genetic links I mentioned do seem to exist.

With little argument from you I could put together a really good case to bioengineer people from scratch but Monty Python already did that.
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People like you really piss me off. I responded to your post in a manner that was much better than how you have responded to mine. If you want something done unto you then you should do it unto others. I gave several logical explanations, you gave me nothing but "does not really answer the question does it?" and "isn't much to say really."

Apparently I need to write an academic article to get any sort of credence. Except if I did you would probably be too lazy to read it.

I expressed my opinions as best as I could in the minute I took to write the post. All you did was debase what I said with rhetorical questions that mean nothing, and added nothing to the conversation.

There's German and Italian in my blood, but my grandparent's fought for the Americans in WW2. One received the silver star. Sorry if I wish to express the right to free speech that my family fought, without being caste aside dismissively as a unthinking Nazi thug.
 
A-L-E-X said:
Its not a "super race" when youre just trying to decide whats best for your (potential) children. Im talking about children with severe mental retardation who probably wouldnt ever be able to take care of themselves and might not even live to the age of 20. Im not talking about imperfections, or things like eye color, hair color, or shallow "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kind of stuff. Its a real challenge for parents to decide-- do they want the responsibility of having to take care of someone who might not even live out to adulthood and/or might never be able to take care of themselves.

Yeah, we have to guard against this going to the extreme and people trying to "customize" their children-- but, I think in certain limited cases, you can use it to decide if its worth it to put a child through that kind of hardship, as well as the rest of the family.
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Well, while you are at it, order two. One original and one for spare parts, thus insuring your investment will provide a good return.:rolleyes:
 
w1retap said:
Actually, the argument that was portrayed is an exact match of an idea of a certain 1930's movement. Let's all avoid saying "Nazi" or "fascism" because certain people have to ignore history to get along with their lives, only to be condemned to repeat those ideas.
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Yeah, and we have to guard against it being taken to that extreme. I myself am nervous that it might happen one day, regardless of the safeguards we place. Im moved to consider putting the choice in the parents hands for very severe disabilities, however, because I know firsthand what kind of torment that can put a family through-- not to mention what it does to the child.


But it is a slippery slope, and if there was a choice to be made between limiting it to just a few conditions or there being an increased risk of it being taken too far, Id rather err on the side of caution.
 
w1retap said:
The idea stemmed from a single individual's brain to conjure up that idea.
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You can't possibly believe this. Alexander Graham Bell, William Shockley, and James Watson were/are obviously all too stupid to come with such a thing themselves.
 
BillR said:
Well, while you are at it, order two. One original and one for spare parts, thus insuring your investment will provide a good return.:rolleyes:
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Are you talking about human cloning? Now, I doubt that would EVER be legalized (nor should it be.)
 
A-L-E-X said:
Its not a "super race" when youre just trying to decide whats best for your (potential) children. Im talking about children with severe mental retardation who probably wouldnt ever be able to take care of themselves and might not even live to the age of 20. Im not talking about imperfections, or things like eye color, hair color, or shallow "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kind of stuff. Its a real challenge for parents to decide-- do they want the responsibility of having to take care of someone who might not even live out to adulthood and/or might never be able to take care of themselves.

Yeah, we have to guard against this going to the extreme and people trying to "customize" their children-- but, I think in certain limited cases, you can use it to decide if its worth it to put a child through that kind of hardship, as well as the rest of the family.
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So genetically deciding (engineering) what you deem "best" for "potential" children isn't actually engineering a super race?

If genetically engineering problem free people isn't creating a super race, I don't know what is.
 
flegg said:
You can't possibly believe this. Alexander Graham Bell, William Shockley, and James Watson were/are obviously all too stupid to come with such a thing themselves.
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Ideas stem from individuals. Other people latch onto those ideas and set them into motion.
 
We should all go back to hunting animals and picking shrubs to eat in the forest. Selective breeding is such a terrible idea in any way shape or form.....
 
flegg said:
People like you really piss me off. I responded to your post in a manner that was much better than how you have responded to mine. If you want something done unto you then you should do it unto others. I gave several logical explanations, you gave me nothing but "does not really answer the question does it?" and "isn't much to say really."

Apparently I need to write an academic article to get any sort of credence. Except if I did you would probably be too lazy to read it.

I expressed my opinions as best as I could in the minute I took to write the post. All you did was debase what I said with rhetorical questions that mean nothing, and added nothing to the conversation.

There's German and Italian in my blood, but my grandparent's fought for the Americans in WW2. One received the silver star. Sorry if I wish to express the right to free speech that my family fought, without being caste aside dismissively as a unthinking Nazi thug.
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I’m glad as hell people like me piss you off. Somebody needs to start making you think.

You don’t walk in waving a degree and assume everyone around you honestly believes that makes you smart and that is exactly what you have done.

You have been taught theory, math and the mechanicals of the “how too's” but your justifications for the things you say show a total lack of humanity.
 
A-L-E-X said:
Yeah, and we have to guard against it being taken to that extreme. I myself am nervous that it might happen one day, regardless of the safeguards we place. Im moved to consider putting the choice in the parents hands for very severe disabilities, however, because I know firsthand what kind of torment that can put a family through-- not to mention what it does to the child.


But it is a slippery slope, and if there was a choice to be made between limiting it to just a few conditions or there being an increased risk of it being taken too far, Id rather err on the side of caution.
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If you're not ready to bring a child into the world because there might be issues that crop up, you don't deserve a child in the first place. Have you ever thought of the attitudes of children? Those can be more tormenting to a parent than a simple disability or handicap. What do we do then, implement mind control so we can set our child's behavior to what we want it to be?
 
A-L-E-X said:
Are you talking about human cloning? Now, I doubt that would EVER be legalized (nor should it be.)
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Hey, if you are going through the drive in window to purchase the perfect child why not order the Big Meal?
 
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