SFF Professional CGI Workstation

[SaladDressing]

After my ATX workstation mobo burned out inside my CoolerMaster Stacker case and being forced to fully upgrade with brand new components all round due to technology having moved on, I've decided to put together a Small Form Factor Workstation for the CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) and Web Development work I do professionally.

The SFF is so that I can easily move my workstation for numerous security and portability scenarios. I'll also be changing from Windows XP Professional to Windows 7 Professional 64-bit. This machine will output to an Apple 27" Cinema Display (2560x1440), an upgrade from the 21" Viewsonic CRT (1600x1200) which was 15+ years old. Instead of a mouse I use a Wacom tablet with USB cable (the cable is a portability hassle, but the tablet is essential for my work). I'm considering a wireless keyboard without numeric keypad (ideally chiclet-style) to ease portability.

For those interested, some of the software I'm running is GIMP, Painter, Inkscape, Scribus, SWiSHmax, Messiah Studio 3D, Rhino3D, Eyeon Fusion, Newtek SpeedEdit, as well as other web development code editors, browsers, and a development server like XAMPP. O yes, occasionally it's nice to move the kit to the lounge where my family and I enjoy a movie together - audio output on a set of Beringer Truth monitoring speakers I have.

Here's the hardware I want to run:

• mini-ITX 1156 motherboard (Intel H57JG)
• Intel i7-870 CPU (1156, 2.93GHz, HT)
• 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333MHz RAM (ideal brand / model?)
• 3.5" internal BluRay / DVD Optical Drive (LG CH10LS20)
• Intel 320 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
• ATI FirePro V4800 Graphics Card (16.8cm long)

I need a stable, cool, quiet and compact system that can sit on my desk. I've never done overclocking and will probably be happy with a standard speed system. Reliability and longevity is much more important than slicing a few seconds off my 3D renders.

I've been checking out the SilverStone SG07 and Lian-Li Q11 cases and I've been reading through those threads here on [H]. I'm excited to eventually upgrade and to go SFF.

I'll be posting my progress in this thread with the dual purpose of sharing and hopefully also getting some help!

Enclosures : Although SilverStone has a distributor here in South Africa, lack of demand has caused them not to stock the SG07 case. Lian-Li is easily available around here and the Q11 may be perfectly suited. The Lian-Li Q07 has enough space to house the FirePro V4800 card (18cm space for a 16.8cm card), but I was concerned about space for CPU cooling. If you guys think the Q07 can work, then I'm open to your advice.

Data Storage : I've decided not to put a HDD in the system, but to stick with SSD for low power, low vibration and low noise. I'll run HDD's in an external enclosure via USB 2 & 3 for archiving and backup of current projects and perhaps an external RAID for video editing

Power Supply : Using a spreadsheet I calculated the total power draw on this system to be 300 watts as follows:

• 90 Watts : ATI FirePro V4800
• 95 Watts : Intel i7-870 CPU
• 7 Watts : 2 x RAM modules
• 7 Watts : case fans
• 10 Watts : CPU cooler
• 70 Watts : motherboard
• 1 Watt : SSD
• 20 Watts : optical drive

Some figures are estimates, and probably over compensated, and some probably incorrect. To cater for this I'm considering a 400 Watt PSU or higher, but the PSU's length should be watched... aiming for 140mm.

CPU Cooling : I've considered the low profile Zalman CNPS8700 NT cooler. The ProlimaTech Samuel 17 looks like a good option too, although not available in South Africa from what my research shows. I've been studying liquid cooling, but the cramped space in the Lian-Li Q11 does not motivate me yet, although I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Machupo]

For rendering I think you would be better off with a matx 1366 system to get the added benefit of triple channel memory. Go with a hex core system and 12-24gb of ram

 

[Dangman]

• mini-ITX 1156 motherboard (Intel H57JG)
• Intel i7-870 CPU (1156, 2.93GHz, HT)

Why this particular setup? The Core i7 2600 is not that much more than the i7 870 yet outperforms it by quite a large margin. Not to mention that the i7 2600 uses less power than the i7 860 and runs significantly cooler. So if you can, see if there are socket LGA 1155 mITX motherboards and the i7 2600 avaialble in South Africa.

Power Supply : Using a spreadsheet I calculated the total power draw on this system to be 300 watts as follows:

• 90 Watts : ATI FirePro V4800
• 95 Watts : Intel i7-870 CPU
• 7 Watts : 2 x RAM modules
• 7 Watts : case fans
• 10 Watts : CPU cooler
• 70 Watts : motherboard
• 1 Watt : SSD
• 20 Watts : optical drive

Some figures are estimates, and probably over compensated, and some probably incorrect. To cater for this I'm considering a 400 Watt PSU or higher, but the PSU's length should be watched... aiming for 140mm.

Your figures aren't that far off actually:
110W - FirePro V4800 (Look at the HD 5770's power figures)
158W - Core i7 860 @ 3Ghz + mobo + RAM + single HDD + idle HD 5870
---
268W at full CPU + GPU load

The i7 870 is the same as the i7 860 but clocked at 2.93Ghz so that figure should be a close approximation. That idle HD 5870 only uses about 16W but just count that 16W to cover fans, DVD drive, etc. A single HDD will use more power than a SSD but a little leeway doesn't hurt. The Firepro 4800's specifications shows that it's basically a faster HD 5770 card. So you are right to aim for a 400W PSU for a worst case scenario. Try to get a Seagate, Corsair, or Antec (not their Basiq line) 400W PSU and you should be fine.

 

[SaladDressing]

For rendering I think you would be better off with a matx 1366 system to get the added benefit of triple channel memory. Go with a hex core system and 12-24gb of ram

Thanks!

I was looking at those but I was just not thrilled about micro-ATX cases... they are not really that small and compact.

Unless there's a mini-ITX case that will take the micro-ATX board!? Or a VERY compact micro-ATX case? Then I'll have compact AND powerful. But if I had to choose one or the other... compact would win. I really am open to suggestions.

 

[SaladDressing]

Why this particular setup? The Core i7 2600 is not that much more than the i7 870 yet outperforms it by quite a large margin. Not to mention that the i7 2600 uses less power than the i7 860 and runs significantly cooler. So if you can, see if there are socket LGA 1155 mITX motherboards and the i7 2600 avaialble in South Africa.

Thanks for the wealth of information and advice!

I haven't built a machine for years (the previous workstation just kept on going) and I'm really out of touch with what's hot and what's not. I'll seriously consider what you've said... need to read it a few times, actually.

 

[Dangman]

Thanks for the wealth of information and advice!

I haven't built a machine for years (the previous workstation just kept on going) and I'm really out of touch with what's hot and what's not. I'll seriously consider what you've said... need to read it a few times, actually.

Yeah fixed my post after you quoted it: You should be looking for the i7 2600.

Oh and no prob.

 

[SaladDressing]

With the dual memory slots on mini-ITX boards, can I put in 2 x 8GB for a 16GB total?

Are there motherboards or RAM modules available for something like this?

 

[Dangman]

With the dual memory slots on mini-ITX boards, can I put in 2 x 8GB for a 16GB total?

Are there motherboards or RAM modules available for something like this?

Practically not possible:
- There aren't any consumer grade 8GB RAM sticks available
- The server grade 8GB RAM sticks are hard to find and cost a significant amount of money.

So unfortunately if you're sticking with mITX, 8GB of RAM is the most you'll get.

As an aside, the smallest mATX case that I know of is the LanGear Da Box 100:
http://www.lan-gear.com/langear-microATX-DaBox100

But it's not available for sale in South Africa AFAIK. However contact the manufacturer and see how much it cost to ship that case over to South Africa.

 

[Necere]

Practically not possible:
- There aren't any consumer grade 8GB RAM sticks available
- The server grade 8GB RAM sticks are hard to find and cost a significant amount of money.

So unfortunately if you're sticking with mITX, 8GB of RAM is the most you'll get.

As an aside, the smallest mATX case that I know of is the LanGear Da Box 100:
http://www.lan-gear.com/langear-microATX-DaBox100

But it's not available for sale in South Africa AFAIK. However contact the manufacturer and see how much it cost to ship that case over to South Africa.

Hm... 8GB DDR3 DIMMs don't seem to be especially hard to get, though it looks like they run about twice the price for the same capacity. Might be different for South Africa though. Also, you'd want to make sure to get a mini-ITX board that supports 16GB.

The Lan Gear really isn't that small, at 23.5 liters... this In-Win mATX case, for example, is about half the size (12.5L). Brings a couple caveats though: SFX power supply only and less room for CPU cooling. Based on the OP's requirements, I don't see the former being a concern - a quality 300w SFX unit is more than enough.

 

[Blue Fox]

8gb sticks that work in consumer boards don't exist at the moment. ECC registered RAM (which is what you linked to) won't work with anything but Xeon processors and server boards.

 

[Necere]

After a bit of googling, this issue seems about as clear as mud. It sounds like registered memory almost certainly won't work with any motherboard that doesn't support it. However, unbuffered ECC memory may possibly work in non-ECC mode with boards that don't support ECC. I did come across a few posts of people that had done exactly that.

So the question then is, are there 8GB unbuffered ECC DDR3 DIMMs out there somewhere? Indeed, it seems there's at least one. Widely available even.

 

[SaladDressing]

The Lan Gear really isn't that small, at 23.5 liters... this In-Win mATX case, for example, is about half the size (12.5L). Brings a couple caveats though: SFX power supply only and less room for CPU cooling. Based on the OP's requirements, I don't see the former being a concern - a quality 300w SFX unit is more than enough.

Thanks!

I did check out the daBox but also found it rather large. That In-Win BK644 micro-ATX case looks good... although no doubt a challenge for a decent CPU cooling solution. If the 300W SFX PSU is insufficient, another SFX may be found, although they seem very scarce.

Found a 1155 mini-ITX motherboard which supports 16GB RAM: Intel H67CF Clear Fork LGA1155. Need to research what RAM they propose would make up 16GB... it would be good to have 16GB. Don't need more than that for my applications since my 3D datasets are never that large. In fact, 8GB RAM would also do if I'm not multi-tasking a lot, although multi-tasking of a few heavy apps is what I usually do and that is a productivity boost.

The Intel Core i7 2600 - 3.40GHz Quad Core Socket LGA1155 processors are available in South Africa.

 

[SaladDressing]

What about the chipset problem on some of the Intel motherboards?

Or is that sorted? And if so, how do I know a particular board is sorted?

 

[Zap]

Chipset problem was sorted out I think back in March. The motherboard will proclaim it is a B3 or revision 3.

 

[UrbanSmooth]

Very interesting build thus far. I would love to see some of your work!

 

[SaladDressing]

Chipset problem was sorted out I think back in March. The motherboard will proclaim it is a B3 or revision 3.

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind.

What does a person do without [H]?

Thank you to everyone for helping so far.

 

[SaladDressing]

Very interesting build thus far. I would love to see some of your work!

What work are you talking about? The 3D graphics?

 

[Dangman]

It appears I was wrong about the availability of server grade 8GB DDR3 RAM sets. Now the question is: Will they actually work?

I did check out the daBox but also found it rather large. That In-Win BK644 micro-ATX case looks good... although no doubt a challenge for a decent CPU cooling solution. If the 300W SFX PSU is insufficient, another SFX may be found, although they seem very scarce.

Pretty much the only good manufacturer of SFX PSUs is Seasonic AFAIK. So see if you can find a Seasonic SFX PSU

Found a 1155 mini-ITX motherboard which supports 16GB RAM: Intel H67CF Clear Fork LGA1155. Need to research what RAM they propose would make up 16GB... it would be good to have 16GB.

Let us know what you find out!

 

[SaladDressing]

Here's what I get from the Intel memory specifications for the relevant mini-ITX board:

Intel® Desktop Board DH67CF
System memory for DH67CF

System Memory Features

The board has two DDR3 DIMM sockets arranged in two channels and supports the following memory features:

Two independent memory channels with interleaved mode support
Support for non-ECC, unbuffered, single-sided or double-sided DIMMs with x8 organization and single-sided DIMMs with x16 organization
16 GB maximum total system memory (with 4 Gb memory technology)
Minimum total system memory: 512 MB
Serial Presence Detect
DDR3 1333 MHz and DDR3 1066 MHz SDRAM DIMMs
32-bit operating systems are limited to a maximum of 4 GB of memory. These operating systems will report less than 4 GB because of the memory used by add-in graphics cards and other system resources.

To be fully compliant with all applicable Intel® SDRAM memory specifications, the board should be populated with DIMMs that support the Serial Presence Detect (SPD) data structure. If your memory modules do not support SPD, you will see a notification to this effect on the screen at power up. The BIOS will attempt to configure the memory controller for normal operation.

What is interesting is that they note that 16GB is possible using 4 gigabit technology.

However, they call for non-ECC, unbuffered RAM with Serial Presence Detect (SPD).

I'm still not sure if something like this available, or were they just talking theoretically.

I have taken note of the new 1x8GB thread on the Memory subforum.

 

[jeremyshaw]

there are already dual and quad ranked 8GB and 16GB DIMMs out there.... just ball bustingly expensive, and clearly meant for servers One of them is a HP branded stick for their proliants, lol...

 

[SaladDressing]

there are already dual and quad ranked 8GB and 16GB DIMMs out there.... just ball bustingly expensive, and clearly meant for servers One of them is a HP branded stick for their proliants, lol...

I checked... Samsung, Elpida, Hynix (and possibly some other memory makers) have the 4 gigabit technology in manufacture but the first order of business is the server and high-end workstation market... bottom feeders get the crumbs much later with the consolation that the prices have dropped... the marketplace doing its thing

OK, so mini-ITX means 8GB RAM maximum for now.

micro-ATX for 16GB or more RAM.

 

[SaladDressing]

I'm going for a case running standard ATX PSU so that there's no problem in sourcing parts if there's a problem or if an upgrade needs to be done.

This means that if I want a really compact case, I'm leaning towards the mini-ITX format right now unless another micro-ATX case with standard ATX PSU comes to my attention.

This means I'll live with 8GB of RAM. This is feasible considering I come from a 2GB system under Windows XP and I'm still doing similar work, so 8GB under Windows 7 64-bit should suffice for a year or three when 16GB or 32GB consumer systems are available.

OK, to recap now:

• motherboard: Intel DH67CF mini-ITX
• CPU : Intel i7 2600 3.4GHz socket LGA1155
• PSU : standard ATX, 140mm length, 400W - 470W
• RAM : 2 x 4GB DDR3

I think it's time to consider the enclosure and the ideal cooling for a mini-ITX system.

 

[jeremyshaw]

SG07 would be the beefiest mITX case easily purchaseable on the open market. It comes with a 140mm length PSU rated a 600W (and the PSU is a shortened cable, nonmodular version of their ST60 Strider PSU).

It also allows for a semi passively cooled AXP 140 RT cpu cooler to be installed, which still allows for a large GPU (upto HD5970 length) to be installed

 

[SaladDressing]

SG07 would be the beefiest mITX case easily purchaseable on the open market. It comes with a 140mm length PSU rated a 600W (and the PSU is a shortened cable, nonmodular version of their ST60 Strider PSU).

It also allows for a semi passively cooled AXP 140 RT cpu cooler to be installed, which still allows for a large GPU (upto HD5970 length) to be installed

In terms of size (14.8L) and specs (ATX PSU, long expansion slots, CPU cooling space) and looks (I do like it), the Silverstone SG07 is on the top of my mini-ITX list. With shipping included I'm looking at USD$325 (maybe need to add VAT on top of that after it lands here).

The Thermalright AXP-140 RT is available here in South Africa. When you say "semi passively cooled" do you mean the AXP 140 RT should be installed without fan and then allow the SG07 fan to cool it? Or does the AXP-140 RT plus fan fit inside the SG07?

 

[jeremyshaw]

In terms of size (14.8L) and specs (ATX PSU, long expansion slots, CPU cooling space) and looks (I do like it), the Silverstone SG07 is on the top of my mini-ITX list. With shipping included I'm looking at USD$325 (maybe need to add VAT on top of that after it lands here).

The Thermalright AXP-140 RT is available here in South Africa. When you say "semi passively cooled" do you mean the AXP 140 RT should be installed without fan and then allow the SG07 fan to cool it? Or does the AXP-140 RT plus fan fit inside the SG07?

http://www.silverstonetek.com/qa/qa_contents.php?pno=SG07&area=usa



as for other cases, I think a few of the LianLi mITX cases can do, too, though I do not have a lot of Lian Li ownership experience, especially in mITX cases.

The biggest reason why I liked the SG07 is it comes with a decent PSU all on it's own, which SPCR took a slight liking to

http://www.silentpcreview.com/silverstone-sg07

 

[SaladDressing]

http://www.silverstonetek.com/qa/qa_contents.php?pno=SG07&area=usa

Thanks!

I never noticed that Q&A section and the wealth of info for the SG07 there!

 

[SaladDressing]

Silverstone SG07

Case Volume = 14.8L
Cooling space = 117mm
PSU length = 140mm
Expansion Card Length = 31cm
Cost + Shipping = ZAR2,200

Besides the hassle and cost of having an SG07 shipped to me from the USA, there's the slim optical drive which needs a solution.

Which internal Blu Ray drive (ROM player, not writer) would you suggest? From one of the threads it seems that a converter cable is also needed to plug the slim player into the SG07 wiring.

An alternative is an external Blu Ray player and then leave the SG07's optical bay empty.


Lian-Li PC-Q11

Case Volume = 17L
Cooling space = 85mm (?)
PSU length = 140mm
Expansion Card Length = 24cm
Cost (no shipping, locally available) = ZAR890

The benefit here is the standard size optical drive, easy to source where I am (LG CH10LS20 BluRay reader or something similar).

The other benefit is I can source a smaller 400W PSU which is much cheaper than the 600W included with the SG07. A Thermaltake 430watts ATX 12V LitePower Power Supply Unit (W0311RS) goes for ZAR430, bringing the Q11 case + PSU total up to ZAR1,320 compared to the SG07 + PSU for ZAR2,200... an ZAR880 ($130) difference.


My Conclusion
Physically the Silverstone SG07 is the better case IMO. It will give me a better CPU cooling option and has the expansion slot length for a future graphics card upgrade if needed (important option for a graphics workstation). As for the slim optical drive, I'll call up the distributors here and see what they can supply. There's got to be something! That slot needs a BluRay drive!!

Any other suggestions about the (virtual) build so far? Ideas about that slim optical slot on the SG07? Anything I haven't yet considered?

 

[Dangman]

Thermaltake 430watts ATX 12V LitePower Power Supply Unit (W0311RS) goes for ZAR430, bringing the Q11 case + PSU total up to ZAR1,320 compared to the SG07 + PSU for ZAR2,200... an ZAR880 ($130) difference.

Avoid any Thermaltake PSU that doesn't have the Toughpower or Purepower RX branding. The rest of Thermaltake's PSUs are pretty shitty. So that Lian Li + TT PSU isn't a good comparision since you're comparing a shitty PSU (The thermltake) with a good PSU (the Silverstone). Hence the difference in price.

 

[SaladDressing]

Avoid any Thermaltake PSU that doesn't have the Toughpower or Purepower RX branding. The rest of Thermaltake's PSUs are pretty shitty. So that Lian Li + TT PSU isn't a good comparision since you're comparing a shitty PSU (The thermltake) with a good PSU (the Silverstone). Hence the difference in price.

And I learn some more! Thanks Danny Bui.

Well, this plays even more in favour of the Silverstone SG07 then. Case settled!

 

[jeremyshaw]

There are Panasonic, teac, and Sony slim bluray drives at around 80-90 usd new.
Posted via Mobile Device

Edit: however, probably cheaper to use external bluray depending on local pricing.

 

[SaladDressing]

Unfortunately this new workstation needs to also connect to the Internet for web development work, else I'd prefer not having it connected, and just using my MacBook for e-mailing and research.

Wherever I work I mostly have a Wi-Fi hotspot, so I'm wondering about the wisdom of wireless networking integrated into the mini-ITX motherboard or should I just get one without it and opt for a USB wireless dongle?

Anyone with experience / advice?

 

[Dangman]

I would not factor in any sort of wireless connectivity when choosing the motherboard until after you've narrowed down the list of motherboards that fits your main criteria.

With that said, in terms of quality, from what I've seen, not much difference between a USB dongle and one integrated into the mobo.

 

[jeremyshaw]

unless if the mobo has a mPCIe slot, in which case, you may use the (argueably) best consumer wireless ASIC in existance: the Intel 6300.

 

[SaladDressing]

Here's my list of H67 LGA1155 mini-ITX motherboards so far:

• Intel DH67CF
• Asus P8H67-I
• Asus P8H67-I Deluxe
• Zotac H67-ITX WiFi
• Gigabyte GA-H67N-USB3-B3
• ASRock H67-ITX
• ASRock H67-ITX / HT (WiFi)

I've found that the Intel and Asus boards are available here. Bringing boards in from overseas myself is not advised for warranty reasons.

Are there any boards I've missed and should be looking at?

From the list, what would be recommended for this workstation build? I am partial to the Intel, but not because of any specific feature.

I can imagine that CPU placement on the board may influence what CPU cooler can be used. What else should I be looking at?

Any advice is very welcome!

 

[jeremyshaw]

The ASUS board, BTW, has an onboard WiFi chip installed in a mPCIe slot, which allows (and verified by [H] member) to allow for the Intel 6200 WiFi mPCIe card to be installed in there (replacing the existing Atheros wifi chip - which is rather decent, as it is).

It also has onboard bluetooth, and an internal USB 3.0 header (not that that matters in silverstone cases ).

 

[SaladDressing]

The ASUS board, BTW, has an onboard WiFi chip installed in a mPCIe slot, which allows (and verified by [H] member) to allow for the Intel 6200 WiFi mPCIe card to be installed in there (replacing the existing Atheros wifi chip - which is rather decent, as it is).

It also has onboard bluetooth, and an internal USB 3.0 header (not that that matters in silverstone cases ).

Thanks for that info, jeremyshaw!

I also see the Asus board uses Small Outline DIMMs which appear to be about half the length of normal RAM slots. Won't the DIMMs then be taller and interfere with the CPU cooler? I'm not familiar with this shorter RAM.

 

[jeremyshaw]

that's laptop ram (SO-DIMM). It's simply shorter, no taller I have the ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe (sig rig) and it's a treat to have Utterly perfect for my Softimage, Maya, and Photoshop needs Though it's going to be swapped out with a mATX board in my FT03 (same footprint as a SG05 case, btw just 2.8x taller ), preferrably the rumoured ASUS ROG mATX LGA1155 board slated to be in Mid May

 

[SaladDressing]

A review of the ASRock H67-ITX board mentions 2 cons:

• CPU position closer to the expansion slot than the Intel DH67CF board
• CPU runs hotter than when in the Intel DH67CF board

 

[jeremyshaw]

that's laptop ram (SO-DIMM). It's simply shorter, no taller I have the ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe (sig rig) and it's a treat to have Utterly perfect for my Softimage, Maya, and Photoshop needs Though it's going to be swapped out with a mATX board in my FT03 (same footprint as a SG05 case, btw just 2.8x taller ), preferrably the rumoured ASUS ROG mATX LGA1155 board slated to be in Mid May

quoted because I edited a few things that you may not of caught

A review of the ASRock H67-ITX board mentions 2 cons:

• CPU position closer to the expansion slot than the Intel DH67CF board
• CPU runs hotter than when in the Intel DH67CF board

CPU running hotter is likely due to deadpan voltage settings under idle, lol....

anyhow, the ASUS board is also confirmed to work with the Samuel 17 (iirc, on [H]?? or am I wrong?) and the Shuriken Rev.B (what I am using) Got to a toasty 68C under wPrime with my i7 2600k in a SG06, however FT03 case didn't even let it peep over 55C (realtemp max temps)

 

[SaladDressing]

that's laptop ram (SO-DIMM). It's simply shorter, no taller I have the ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe (sig rig) and it's a treat to have Utterly perfect for my Softimage, Maya, and Photoshop needs Though it's going to be swapped out with a mATX board in my FT03 (same footprint as a SG05 case, btw just 2.8x taller ), preferrably the rumoured ASUS ROG mATX LGA1155 board slated to be in Mid May

Thanks for the info on SO-DIMMs and for the thumbs-up on the ASUS P8H67-I Deluxe!

I seriously considered the Silverstone FT03 while I was thinking of going the micro-ATX route. However the 49cm height of the box makes it less than ideal for shoving in a bag and travelling. I suppose if having oodles of RAM was the deciding factor, I'd reconsider micro-ATX and the FT03.