Set the Sith Afire

It's obvious some fools in here still have no clue how dangerous this thing actually is.
 
NoEcho said:
You read the part where even indirect light from this thing can blind you - that it can take up to 24 hours for the blindness to hit, that the included safety goggles protect from only a fraction of a second's direct exposure, that exposed skin will be radiation damaged before being physically burnt, thus causing possible cancer? This thing is going to be banned.
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Welcome to the world of lasers? You think this one is any more dangerous than any other 1W laser?
 
robble said:
It's obvious some fools in here still have no clue how dangerous this thing actually is.
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I know right. They act like it's a gun for kids or something.

Seriously, I would not want to see a kid playing with this, but if an adult is capable of safely handling a gun I see no reason why he or she could not safely handle a powerful laser too.

I doubt very much that many people are going to throw down 200 dollars for this without fully realizing just how dangerous it is. Everyone making the claim this will lead to such a dangerous situation for everyone has no basis for the claim.

Show me evidence that this will lead to mass blindness or arson or whatever and I will listen. Until then it is unfounded speculation, fear mongering and slippery slope. The simple fact is is that people have access to much more dangerous technology than this and have for years.
 
1 said:
Life is fatal. Your chances of getting hurt from a laser is so small that there is really no reason to pass legislation at this point. Until it becomes a real problem, chill.
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Your chance of getting hurt by this laser or hurting someone else is extremely high.

1 said:
I know right. They act like it's a gun for kids or something.

Seriously, I would not want to see a kid playing with this, but if an adult is capable of safely handling a gun I see no reason why he or she could not safely handle a powerful laser too. It is much easier to accidentally cause serious injury to people with this than it is with a gun. You don't have to be hit by the beam to be permanently injured.

I doubt very much that many people are going to throw down 200 dollars for this without fully realizing just how dangerous it is. Everyone making the claim this will lead to such a dangerous situation for everyone has no basis for the claim.

$200 is within range of a lot of people who wont know better. You can tell just by reading the comments in this thread that people will do stupid things with it. They just think 'cool toy!'

Show me evidence that this will lead to mass blindness or arson or whatever and I will listen. Until then it is unfounded speculation, fear mongering and slippery slope. The simple fact is is that people have access to much more dangerous technology than this and have for years.

Just wait until they start arriving to people who ordered them. I can definitely see a news story in the not distant future talking about people getting blinded with this.
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I dont get the arrogance of people who think just because you buy a laser you are an idiot who wouldn't use it smartly.

it's neat, it's dangerous, I own equally neat and dangerous items and no one has ever lost an eye or gotten hurt by anything.
 
stealthy123 said:
I dont get the arrogance of people who think just because you buy a laser you are an idiot who wouldn't use it smartly.

it's neat, it's dangerous, I own equally neat and dangerous items and no one has ever lost an eye or gotten hurt by anything.
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go ahead and get one then. You may want to buy a braille keyboard/monitor too.
 
robble said:
go ahead and get one then. You may want to buy a braille keyboard/monitor too.
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They come with eye protection by default. If I were to buy one I would opt for the upgraded eye protection. I can't justify buying one simply because the dangers of using it makes it impractical for most home uses. If I really need a powerful laser my school has one I can use for free.

Might be cool to start the charcoal grill from 10 ft away, but then you need be sure you are wearing eye protection. Too much work....

But that hardly means I think they should be banned.;)
 
This thing is safer than a gun, since I can pretty much guarantee you won't come back from a gun being fired while pointed at your eye. At least the laser just burn/blinds you. You'll live to tell the tale!

On a serious note while this product is dangerous and I don't want one anywhere near me, I don't think it should be banned. Any fool that causes damage with one should be subject to serious repercussions and restitution though (as should be the case with any harm done to another).
 
What do people buy these for? Seriously, list the legitimate uses for this for which a lesser power laser pointer will not do just as well.

I don't make that argument casually. Guns have legitimate uses. I don't see any for this.
 
If were to shoot this at a white piece of paper, would that be enough reflection to damage your eye?
 
evilsofa said:
What do people buy these for? Seriously, list the legitimate uses for this for which a lesser power laser pointer will not do just as well.

I don't make that argument casually. Guns have legitimate uses. I don't see any for this.
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The vast majority of people treat their guns as "toys" by shooting them at the range to burn a day and have some fun firing the weapons they own. Why can't you do that with a laser?
 
evilsofa said:
What do people buy these for? Seriously, list the legitimate uses for this for which a lesser power laser pointer will not do just as well.

I don't make that argument casually. Guns have legitimate uses. I don't see any for this.
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There are very few. It's too strong to play with.

Ihaveworms said:
If were to shoot this at a white piece of paper, would that be enough reflection to damage your eye?
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YES. instant permanent blindness.

Shlomo said:
The vast majority of people treat their guns as "toys" by shooting them at the range to burn a day and have some fun firing the weapons they own. Why can't you do that with a laser?
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imagine if every bullet fired would shatter upon impact, ricochet and hit everyone within sthe line of sight. That is what happens with this laser. The dot/reflections from the dot are strong enough to very quickly blind someone.




Comparing this laser to any other hand held laser is like comparing black cat firecrackers to a full stick of dynamite. It's a completely different ball game.
 
Ihaveworms said:
If were to shoot this at a white piece of paper, would that be enough reflection to damage your eye?
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This sounded cool and fun until I read the links. I know little about lasers, but it sounds like 5mW is enough to cause permanent damage. This laser is 1W, or 200 times stronger than that danger threshold. Therefore, you only need 0.5% of the light to be reflected into your eye to cause permanent damage. While I don't know for sure, I would guess that white paper and many other less reflective sources would be enough to cause permanent damage just by looking at the dot. *This laser should not be taken lightly.*

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
This could be dangerous in the wrong hands.
Parents that don't keep it away from children. "Ahh cool, I light saber"
Criminals blinding cops during a foot pursuit to get away.
Neighbors dog barking. Zap!!.
Idiot at club, concert, or ball game blinding the fans, musicians or players.
Person hiding with a device that could blind someone walking, flying, or driving at night from hundreds of feet away and not getting caught.
 
from wicked's warning page:
Accidental eye exposure will definitely result in instant retina tissue damage even within just milliseconds of exposure. Direct eye contact with the beam or reflected will cause instant permanent damage and blindness. Sometimes blindness may take a day or longer for the onset. Unlike instant injury from a bright flash of a red or green laser, this effect is cumulative over 24 hours. It is also possible that such an exposure could cause retinal degeneration and even loss of vision later in life.
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scary. so im curious, if you can really look at the dot....how will you know where to point it? o.o which leads me to reiterate that a list of legitimate uses would be convenient/nice to know/read.

evilsofa said:
What do people buy these for? Seriously, list the legitimate uses for this for which a lesser power laser pointer will not do just as well.

I don't make that argument casually. Guns have legitimate uses. I don't see any for this.
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my neighbor has roosters that crow 24/7. this aint thailand. will this lightsaber bring an early thanksgiving? =D
 
evilsofa said:
What do people buy these for? Seriously, list the legitimate uses for this for which a lesser power laser pointer will not do just as well.

I don't make that argument casually. Guns have legitimate uses. I don't see any for this.
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Experiments in Optics, materials, black body radiation experiments, measuring Planck's constant, bouncing the laser off the moon and trying to measure the speed of light...etc...

There are lots of good at experiments that the shady tree physicist might be interesting doing at home where a 1w laser maybe needed.
 
1 said:
Quantum computers and lasers.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2005/10/69033
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sure there are legit uses in the scientific community. This is offered to the general public however. I personally feel they should only be offered to those with legit uses.

even the experienced laser users at wicked forums are scared of this and think it's not a good idea for this to be in the general populace (even though they are bat shit happy to get one themselves)
 
robble said:
sure there are legit uses in the scientific community. This is offered to the general public however. I personally feel they should only be offered to those with legit uses.
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How do you know who has legit uses? What is a legit use? I have a degree in physics, but that does not imply I have legit uses.

There are a lot of good physicists who are not part of the scientific community. They may want to do experiments in their basements and need a 1w or bigger laser to do so.
 
Using this indoors brings a high chance of blindness. A 40mW laser can go about 8 miles. A 1W laser can go over 200 miles. How far would a beam have to bounce indoors before hitting any part of you? I'm going to guess a lot less than 200 miles. Not to mention damage to your home (Wooden furniture? Paintings? Say hello to scorch marks) Eye protection (in the under $500 range) is, in essence, nearly useless against this laser because you will be hit by it, and you will go blind.

Hopefully the FDA will restrict these (more than they already do*), because I honestly hope that not a single person in the greater city area gets one of these.

*Class IV lasers are banned from entering unless they have a key-lock, emission delay, and various other safety features, none of which will save your eyesight from an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. These might not be as dangerous as guns per person, but a gunshot will not cause nearly as much (most of the time) pain and misery as a stupidly placed laser.
 
Meh, as a kid we took magnetrons out of microwaves and hooked em to motorcycle batteries. Great for wasp nests or even just killing weeds.
 
stealthy123 said:
I dont get the arrogance of people who think just because you buy a laser you are an idiot who wouldn't use it smartly.

it's neat, it's dangerous, I own equally neat and dangerous items and no one has ever lost an eye or gotten hurt by anything.
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It's simple logic, really: a gun is FAR less accident-prone and FAR less easy to accidentally injure someone with, than a laser flashlight such as these items.
 
1 said:
Straw man, slippery slope and absurd rhetoric and red herring, there maybe some I missed. If you want to write something intelligent to support your position I would love to read it. The only thing interesting about your post is the amount of fallacies packed into so few words.
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People resort to personal insults when they have no points or argument left to provide. That, sir, is your situation here.
 
to anyone saying these should be banned because few people will know the danger involved, you're apparently not too bright yourself, and didn't bother to read the company's website. first, there is a warning on the page where you go to order this device that reads:

Warning: Extremely dangerous is an understatement to the power of 1W of laser power. It will blind permanently and instantly and set fire quickly to skin and other body parts, use with extreme caution and only when using the included eye protection. Customers will be required to completely read and agree to our Class IV Laser Hazard Acknowledgment Form.
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this warning is a hyperlink that leads to the URL: http://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/blue_light_hazard.html

at this URL, they go into pretty rich detail explaining the potential dangers with this device....it's a long page, so i won't copy/paste the full page here, but rest assured, they go into a LOT of detail. i will, however, post a few excerpts from the page:

Blue-light Hazard is defined as the potential for a photochemical induced retinal injury resulting from radiation exposure at wavelengths primarily between 400 nm and 500 nm. The mechanisms for photochemical induced retinal injury are caused by the absorption of light by photoreceptors in the eye. Under normal conditions when light hits a photoreceptor, the cell bleaches and becomes useless until it has recovered through a metabolic process called the visual cycle. Absorption of blue light, however, has been shown to cause a reversal of the process where cells become unbleached and responsive again to light before it is ready. This greatly increases the potential for oxidative damage. By this mechanism, some biological tissues such as skin, the lens of the eye, and in particular the retina may show irreversible changes induced by prolonged exposure to moderate levels of UV radiation and short-wavelength light.
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Wicked Lasers recognizes the dangers associated with its mishandling and possible abuse. Laser safety flyers and LaserShades are shipped free together with every Spyder III 445nm Arctic blue laser purchase.
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This is a very serious issue and would like to reiterate that extreme care, proper safety gear and the necessary safety precautions be followed when using the Spyder III Pro Arctic, it is not a toy, it is a high power Class 4 1W laser.In addition, this laser must NEVER be used to play with your pets.Close proximity to the beam's diffused reflection off floors and walls could potentially cause injury and blindness.In general, DO NOT aim this laser on yourself, on your skin, on animals, on others or target moving vehicles and airplanes.
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Laser Safety Tips:

1 - Do not allow minors to use a handheld laser unsupervised. Furthermore, only allow adults to use laser pointers after they have understood the responsibilities and risks that it carries.

2 - Never shine a laser at anyone, especially their face. Even temporary exposure can cause significant damage to the eye. Lasers are designed to point at inanimate objects.

3 - Always be conscious of where you're pointing. Avoid pointing a laser at any reflective surfaces. Unintentionally reflected beams can easily violate laser safety tip #2.

4 - Never use your laser in the vicinity of airports, highways, construction sites or anywhere individuals need to constantly pay attention to their work for their own safety. A split-second distraction, a sudden laser light in a plane cockpit, for example, can be disastrous.

5 - Be especially cautious around high-powered lasers, like green handheld lasers used for stargazing. They are far stronger than the conventional red lasers commonly used during lectures. And do not purchase a handheld laser at all if it does not identify its class or power.

6 - Do not purchase a handheld laser if it does not have a caution or danger sticker on it identifying its class. Report suspicious devices to the FDA.
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so it's not like anyone buying this thing will not have forewarning about the potential dangers of the thing....which is definitely not to say that some people won't do stupid things with it anyway, but people do stupid things with guns, cars, explosives, etc. anyway, and luckily, they remain in the vast minority....there's no reason to assume that there is any more or less danger of abuse with this laser than those other things.

if we banned anything/everything that posed a potential danger to ourselves or others, we'd still be in the dark ages where scientific exploration/experimentation was frowned upon and/or illegal, and we'd still be burning each other at the stake for being witches or demonically possessed...... :rolleyes:

if you really think that there is more potential for abuse with this laser than other things that are as dangerous (or moreso), then you're a delusional, fear-mongering idiot
 
GoldenTiger said:
People resort to personal insults when they have no points or argument left to provide. That, sir, is your situation here.
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I never said or implied anything about you personally. Everything I wrote was with respect to your post, and not you personally. Your post was idiotic imo, but that does not mean I think you are an idiot and I certainly would not think you are stupid based on that post. You seem like a very intelligent person to me if it makes you feel better. ;)

But your post was full of fallacious arguments.
 
xXaNaXx said:
if you really think that there is more potential for abuse with this laser than other things that are as dangerous (or moreso), then you're a delusional, fear-mongering idiot
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While I agree with most of your post, the idea that people who do not agree our point of view are idiot is not true. I think we can agree with bad judgment, and poor reasoning but I wouldn't say much more.
 
It's cool, but my only question is why would you need this? The only point I see is to hurt someone, or something

If only the laser was actually lightsaber thickness...
 
Why are these even produced? Can this be used for anything good? The local arsonists will love these things.. No ballistics and silent? Have at it gang members. Hey terrorists, don't waste your resources on weapons of mass destruction, just bide your time until some US company makes them commercially available for purchase. Time to call my Senator and Congressman.

Maybe if they put similar warnings on guns, we wouldn't have shootings...
 
Oh man, I'd hate to play professional sports knowing some crazy in the stand is going to to be able to destroy my career.
 
xXaNaXx said:
to anyone saying these should be banned because few people will know the danger involved, you're apparently not too bright yourself, and didn't bother to read the company's website. first, there is a warning on the page where you go to order this device that reads:



this warning is a hyperlink that leads to the URL: http://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/blue_light_hazard.html

at this URL, they go into pretty rich detail explaining the potential dangers with this device....it's a long page, so i won't copy/paste the full page here, but rest assured, they go into a LOT of detail. i will, however, post a few excerpts from the page:









so it's not like anyone buying this thing will not have forewarning about the potential dangers of the thing....which is definitely not to say that some people won't do stupid things with it anyway, but people do stupid things with guns, cars, explosives, etc. anyway, and luckily, they remain in the vast minority....there's no reason to assume that there is any more or less danger of abuse with this laser than those other things.

if we banned anything/everything that posed a potential danger to ourselves or others, we'd still be in the dark ages where scientific exploration/experimentation was frowned upon and/or illegal, and we'd still be burning each other at the stake for being witches or demonically possessed...... :rolleyes:

if you really think that there is more potential for abuse with this laser than other things that are as dangerous (or moreso), then you're a delusional, fear-mongering idiot
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there is nothing preventing a malicious user from hurting someone with this laser. at least with guns, you have to, as far as i know, get a permit/ take classes/ register your weapon. there's pretty much no way to track down who blinded you with this laser. and I would rather get shot than go blind. at least gun shot wounds heal up.
 
1 said:
It is not sarcasm. And you have no point that I can see. Science is just the search for knowledge. The "scientific method" is something that is taught in high school science classes. Real science does not follow and such method. Theories are made and tested....pure play.


Please do not tell try to tell me how do study physics or do physics experiments and I will not tell you how to do whatever it is you do.
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Wait.. can you elaborate on this? Suddenly science sounds like a very fun field. :eek:
 
Eagle156 said:
at least with guns, you have to, as far as i know, get a permit/ take classes/ register your weapon. there's pretty much no way to track down who blinded you with this laser. and I would rather get shot than go blind. at least gun shot wounds heal up.
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You do not know. There are various state and local laws that differ, but speaking on a federal level you do not have to take classes or register the gun and if you are smart there is pretty much no way to track down a shot from a gun. Silencers and fully automatic guns are a different story.

If lasers are banned I would hope a lawyer would fight this under the second amendment since clearly a 1w and above laser could be used as a weapon and so could be classified as "arms" and hence protected under by the bill of rights.
 
Mayson said:
Great. Now there are going to be blind pilots flying into buildings all day and confused looking corpses everywhere.
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Fixed, with tongue firmly in cheek. ;)

However, I don't doubt that protective eyewear is going to become standard airline issue in the near future.
1 said:
How do you know who has legit uses? What is a legit use? I have a degree in physics, but that does not imply I have legit uses.

There are a lot of good physicists who are not part of the scientific community. They may want to do experiments in their basements and need a 1w or bigger laser to do so.
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I don't dispute the legitimate need for the technology. What is unfathomable is the legitimate need for this device. An unregulated toy with this marketing-bullshit packaging and proprietary controls is useless for experimentation, home-based or otherwise.
 
achensherd said:
Wait.. can you elaborate on this? Suddenly science sounds like a very fun field. :eek:
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It is fun as long as you have the aptitude for it. You have a theory about this or that and you test the theory. While it is typically difficult to have a successful theory, there is no harm in trying and it really can be fun, even though it is very difficult and can be expensive to set up experiments to test various theories.

Some inexpensive and easy to do laser experiments are:

Take a clear plastic 2 liter pop/soda/coke bottle and put a nice round hole of maybe a 1/4 inch diameter a couple of inches from the base. Now plug the hole and fill the bottle with water. Shine the laser through the bottle onto the plug, and then remove the plug. You will see that the laser will stay inside the water stream.

Next,

Get a diffraction grating tuned to the same frequency as the laser and try to get light to reflect off of a surface without striking the surface. You may need a photomultiplier for this kind of experiment. This might be too hard and or expensive to actually do at home.

You could test the Rayleigh-Jeans formula for black body radiation with a laser and see if you can get Planck's constant from it. A fundamental constant of nature that is very important in quantum mechanics. This could be hard, but shouldn't be too expensive.

Next,

You could rig up something to measure the current from a metal plate to test the photoelectric effect.

All of this is just plain good fun. Nothing very serious except that laser can be dangerous and you need to wear proper eye protection.
 
srangara said:
I don't dispute the legitimate need for the technology. What is unfathomable is the legitimate need for this device. An unregulated toy with this marketing-bullshit packaging and proprietary controls is useless for experimentation, home-based or otherwise.
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It is an inexpensive high power laser. That is useful for home experiments where people do not have 3k + to spend on professional lasers. Maybe you do not think much of people doing home research, but does happen and can produce great results.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html

Laser ranging for amateurs is very good case for a laser like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR
 
I don't think this should be banned, but rather sold under the same law and safety requirements as guns where if you misuse it, you would be penalized. To those of you who thinks this should be banned, I suppose you're anti-gun as well?
 
nanotube said:
This could be dangerous in the wrong hands.
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Just like guns, and they aren't banned.
nanotube said:
Parents that don't keep it away from children. "Ahh cool, I light saber"
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Parents that don't keep it away from children. "Ahh cool, I have a pistol just like Master Chief!"
nanotube said:
Criminals blinding cops during a foot pursuit to get away.
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Criminals shooting cops in the eye to blind them during a foot pursuit to get away.
nanotube said:
Neighbors dog barking. Zap!!.
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Neighbor's dog barking. Bang!
nanotube said:
Idiot at club, concert, or ball game blinding the fans, musicians or players.
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Idiot at club, concert, or ball game shooting the fans, musicians, or players.
nanotube said:
Person hiding with a device that could blind someone walking, flying, or driving at night from hundreds of feet away and not getting caught.
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Person hiding with a weapon that could kill someone walking or driving at night from hundreds of feet away and not getting caught.

Pretty much every nefarious use I've heard someone come up with for one of these lasers, you can already do with a gun, and guns are already far more widely available.

While I don't believe these should be banned, there should probably be some regulation. We have laws to keep felons and retards from buying guns, I wouldn't have a problem with a similar law regulating these.
 
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