SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

[elshekar]

We're not going to support cards with extended PCB like that. it would require at least an additional inch of case width and also they are built that way to support higher clocks/voltage/power consumption. I believe those would totally overheat in this cramped space.

Totally true

Those are the female connectors used on graphics cards (and angled connectors are already what's being used in all graphics cards I know of).

I guess you're talking about angled male connectors? Not sure if those exist, but it's possible.

My fail. I'll search for it. If there will be no support to GPU's with hight heatpipes maybe we can win something of space

Valve's Steam box are angled, but with no converter. And the conectors are not the original ones that comes with de SilverStone SFX they use

 

[WiSK]

Those are the female connectors used on graphics cards (and angled connectors are already what's being used in all graphics cards I know of).

I guess you're talking about angled male connectors? Not sure if those exist, but it's possible.

Sorry to be a pendant, but it might help when searching for products to use the correct terms.

The connectors in this picture are not "female". The gender is determined by the pins, not the housing. In this case the header uses male pins, so in the picture it shows a "male plug".

The thing that connects to it is not a male connector but correctly a "female receptacle".

See also reference http://www.molex.com/molex/products...oducts&chanName=family&pageTitle=Introduction


As you can see from the product page, there are no right angled receptacles. The one that Dell uses in some Alienware products is custom made.

 

[ZombiPL]

We were still thinking about changing the ventilation holes from small hex-mesh to bigger holes, and we think we will stay with the new design. We've made several mathematical simulations and it looks like we shouldn't have problems with cooling.

Here You have a taste of one of our simulations:

 

[Phuncz]

Ok i'll try to find Asus P8Z77-I and Asus P8H77-I in second hand, or similar if exists. Thx men

The P8H77-I has a different layout than the Z77 version, it has the CPU socket near the PCIe slot.

to win some space. Usefull? or we need this space for cards with hight heatpipes

The problem with those cards is the cooler, not the PCB apparently. This means the power plugs are at about the same location as a reference card.

Nice animations ZombiPL

 

[backfeed]

The connectors in this picture are not "female".

Thanks for the correction, though now I'm in a world of confusion.

We've made several mathematical simulations and it looks like we shouldn't have problems with cooling.

Flow simulations!? You guys are serious for real. Cool.

 

[SaperPL]

Flow simulations!? You guys are serious for real. Cool.

We weren't bullshitting you - we're doing all this in SolidWorks. Renders are made in photoview 360 from complete case assemblies, not some mock-ups in 3d software.

 

[elshekar]

And hex big holes vs diagonal holes who wins . Can't remember if big hex holes was more/equal/less expensive than diagonal

 

[SaperPL]

We cant do "big" hex holes - you can't make something with big holes that would be unsafe. And of course we need to keep the standard and make the case for the CE safety marking.

With hex holes we had 640 openings for the top air intlet (PSU & CPU)
With current diagonal holes we've got 98 openings for the same air inlet.

And there's of course the bottom and side inlets, which would mean having like +1000 openings, when there are like 200 openings for all other stuff than air circulation.

It still is possible that we may fall back to the original hex or round hole arrays if the metalworks contractor will have the punch machine and making the custom air inlets on it will cheap enough.

 

[elshekar]

When i was talking about "big hex holes" I was talking about the original design, the one of the first post. Of couse we cant have hole bigger than a finger !!!. For me small hex holes are the mesh ones (left)

Hey and what about this pattern, the #3 and the #4? (PAINT.EXE TIME!)

Sorry was 1 minute draw XDD. In the #4 i was triying to make the same form of the frontal of the case. I think that the #4 will be as nice as hex...or more becouse is the silhouette of the case

Another modern idea nowadays is to make the border of the hole zone not regular. Will be modern i think and with some less holes = some less costs. I mean like in the next pics

ot this one

 

[SaperPL]

Currently we're using something like your #4 but with a little bigger distance between holes and diagonal orientation. It's not visible on the render though.

Thanks for some ideas though, we'll look into it.

 

[elshekar]

Niceee. Will be an absolutely awesome case. When you have a selections of relatively cheap + nice + good airflow can vote all the interested users during some days ^^

 

[SaperPL]

Let's wait with the price, until we see how final metalworks cost look.

Btw there's something might might interest some of you - I think the case will fit in 17" laptop bags!

 

[Phuncz]

Btw there's something might might interest some of you - I think the case will fit in 17" laptop bags!

LOL nice one. That will make it cheap to lug around !

 

[SaperPL]

I just checked with my combo 15"/17" manta notebook bag putting atx box with dimensions 330x265x70.
It fits loosely on sides so 1cm more in width is no problem here and there's 5cm of free space to the top of the case so it should fit up to 265+50=315mm.

I think my bag is a clone of some Targus bags like this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Targus-CityGear-Topload-Laptop-Laptops/dp/B000687SME

Not all bags will fit it probably, but we'll check that out for lanparty gamers.

 

[elshekar]

My friend tells me that the Gigabyte 970 G1 gaming and 970 WF3 (Best 970 for me in 2slots) in the reality measures 29.8cm, not the 31.2cm of the original page. What are the max gpu dimensions actually? (I know all can change)

And a question about cpu cooler in itx. You said that far from PCI-E is better, but if i see P8H77-I is very close to the RAM modules. Then too close to pci-e is as bad as too close to RAM modules?

 

[SaperPL]

I think its always close to RAM slots in m-itx format. The problem here is about tall cooler colliding with the space used to mount the 2.5" hard drive, as stated before, not some board technical or thermal problem.

As for the card length - we've got 306mm of internal space for the card and it can be mounted straightly from side so the the additional angled bracket's part doesn't count. So technically its 305mm length from the start of the PCB on the bracket side. With 305mm PCB it would be really tight fit so I'll say its 305mm including 1mm bracket width.

 

[elshekar]

Ah ok I understand. You was talking about tall space all that time. OK

There's a possibility to share a quick plain of inside components?. Now i'm looking for an ITX motherboard and I think i'll be help me

One more thing. Sometimes i've seen photos of adaptor with 2x2.5 units rubber or metal made. One over the other one. Like this one but without the converter to 3.5". There's space for that?

 

[SaperPL]

There's a possibility to share a quick plain of inside components?. Now i'm looking for an ITX motherboard and I think i'll be help me

Uhm, nope, not yet. Just take our advice and don't buy a motherboard with cpu socket next to the pci-express. We'll have to make sure there aren't any problems with this configuration anyway.

One more thing. Sometimes i've seen photos of adaptor with 2x2.5 units rubber or metal made. One over the other one. Like this one but without the converter to 3.5". There's space for that?

Note that we aren't supporting 3.5" drives as standard configuration, its just a possibility that there will be some mounting holes for it if you don't have dedicated gpu or you have it single slot version. That's because with case this thin there's not much space to use for thick drives.

One of the drive is already over the motherboard's IO just barely above its clearance space, while second drive is between the GPU and PSU if its not SFX-L that's installed. Adding second one there could obstruct the space required for PSU cables or modular cable receptacles.

We'll make some additional mounting holes for the drives in VGA space soon.

I believe there's also a hacky, "inverted" configuration for both drives if you've got a card with plastic PCB shield and you're not afraid to put the drives on the card. But we will not encourage you to do so or officially support this.

 

[energizerfellow]

Currently we're using something like your #4 but with a little bigger distance between holes and diagonal orientation. It's not visible on the render though.

Thanks for some ideas though, we'll look into it.

I still say the diagonals are a horrible, horrible idea. It clashes with your overall design aesthetic, draws the eye in the wrong way, and screams 1980s consumer electronics in the worst possible way. The "optimized slot" vent design you had earlier is much more pleasant to look at.

I do have some professional background in industrial design, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

 

[ZombiPL]

I still say the diagonals are a horrible, horrible idea. It clashes with your overall design aesthetic, draws the eye in the wrong way, and screams 1980s consumer electronics in the worst possible way. The "optimized slot" vent design you had earlier is much more pleasant to look at.

I do have some professional background in industrial design, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

I'm not sure if You are serious or just trolling... You really think this is the best from the optimized forms??

We think this style is more like 1980's....

I'm asking, because over 90% of people who we talked to said that this type of vent holes is the worst from all showed in our renders...

 

[Phuncz]

I would personally prefer punched holes (expensive) or the diagonal slots. I can't really make the connection between diagonal slots and the 80's. Even the Xbox One and Playstation 4 have plenty of diagonal lines.

 

[elshekar]

Note that we aren't supporting 3.5" drives as standard configuration

The photo is not a 3.5" drive. Are two 2.5" drives. But I supose reading your words that there will be no space two 2.5" one over the other

 

[SaperPL]

Yeah, I got that, I just said that the main problem is the thickness of 3.5" drive, or two stacked 2.5" drives.

 

[Screes]

Whichever design gives the best airflow with the least air restriction and least turbulance is the choice i want. I don't care what that ends up looking like. Then again, i am the guy who thinks these look good:

 

[Phuncz]

Now THAT is the '80's

 

[elshekar]

Now THAT is the '80's

Agree

Punchz finally I will try to find the asus you recommend me during those months. The asrock z77 itx has msata in the back but only 3gb/s and is no centered like SaperPL recommends. There aren't in 1155 centered Cpu sockets with masta/m.2. In 1150 I've seen a lot. In fact I only know 3 models in lga1155 with the Cpu far from pcie : the one from asus, the expensive evga stinger and a cheap 50€ msi h61 motherboard with serial and parallel ports xD

I'll see what I do in the end. Maybe I will take extreme solutions like selling my entire pc to make a 1150 setup or dissemble my 2,5 ssd and putting it under the main board like an msata hehhe

 

[ZombiPL]

Agree

Punchz finally I will try to find the asus you recommend me during those months. The asrock z77 itx has msata in the back but only 3gb/s and is no centered like SaperPL recommends. There aren't in 1155 centered Cpu sockets with masta/m.2. In 1150 I've seen a lot. In fact I only know 3 models in lga1155 with the Cpu far from pcie : the one from asus, the expensive evga stinger and a cheap 50€ msi h61 motherboard with serial and parallel ports xD

I'll see what I do in the end. Maybe I will take extreme solutions like selling my entire pc to make a 1150 setup or dissemble my 2,5 ssd and putting it under the main board like an msata hehhe

We don't say You shouldn't use a motherboard with socket next to the PCI-E (not in the center of the motherboard). The only thing is that, if You will use such mobo, You will need to use a lower low-profile cooler or resign from using 2nd hdd/ssd.

 

[Phuncz]

Agree

Phuncz finally I will try to find the asus you recommend me during those months.

The Asus P8Z77-I should be the easiest Z77 board to find since it sold pretty well I think.

 

[elshekar]

We don't say You shouldn't use a motherboard with socket next to the PCI-E (not in the center of the motherboard). The only thing is that, if You will use such mobo, You will need to use a lower low-profile cooler or resign from using 2nd hdd/ssd.

Understood. I dont use OC so I dont need the best CPU cooler out there. More important for me is the lack of second 2.5" unit.

Dont worry If I said to sell my entire PC. That's becouse i've got a friend that need a powerfull PC (without GPU) in the 1º/2º Quarter of 2015 for the final version of Oculus Rift. Maybe I'll sold it the entire PC o some parts. But dont worry that decission doesn't have relation of the lack of models of 1155 ITX motherboards far from PCI-E

The Asus P8Z77-I should be the easiest Z77 board to find since it sold pretty well I think.

Is good to hear that. Thanks


Meanwhile, I post some ideas for people with problems of space in the future. Those are extreme solutions, not to be supported by the case creators. I'm only sharing my ideas

msata->sata converters

Disamble a 2.5" SSD

I supose those pcb's are as thin as mSATA, so there will be no problems to place it under the motherboard. Protecting it of course. And of couse supporting SATA3 6gb/seg.

Those are extreme solutions, not recommended, but exists.

 

[Phuncz]

The mSATA SSD's are much smaller:

That's a 2,5" Velociraptor in a 3,5" heatsink.

 

[elshekar]

Of course. But not every body have an msata@6gb/s. I put it as a alternative for some people. By the way some ssd pcb are a lot small than the 2.5" case. Specially Samsung's Sata 840 evo pcb. Not as small as msata of course

 

[Phuncz]

To be fair, a SATA-600 SSD is rarely hitting it's peak >500MB/sec speed anyway, it's the low latency and the 4K speeds that are much more relevant to the percieved speed of an SSD. The real large gain in speed is in the PCIe NVMe SSD's in M.2 form with many times lower latency and many times higher throughput.

 

[elshekar]

To be fair, a SATA-600 SSD is rarely hitting it's peak >500MB/sec speed anyway, it's the low latency and the 4K speeds that are much more relevant to the percieved speed of an SSD. The real large gain in speed is in the PCIe NVMe SSD's in M.2 form with many times lower latency and many times higher throughput.

That's very interesting for a build for this case.

I was in touch with the ssd advantages but not in msata (I suppose is the same as sata in smaller format) or M.2

When you talk about PCIe NVMe SSD's in M.2 you talk about this

Or with a pci adapter like this

There's to much differences in therms of Max speed and access to 4k between SSD's sata/msata and SSD's m.2

For me that will be a must for a change of socket

Men a 6l case with all that technology is the future

 

[Phuncz]

Indeed, I bought a motherboard with support for PCIe 3.0 x4 specifically for the NVMe SSD's that will be released at the beginning of 2015.

 

[elshekar]

But still have the doubt about if the tiny M.2 card in a on board connector of the Motherboard is as powerfull as a PCI-E 3.0 typical slot with adaptor. Thanks men

 

[Phuncz]

The size of the connector or the size of the PCB for that matter doesn't directly influence the performance of an SSD. If anything, an adapter could only make it perform slower, not faster.

I think you incorrectly correlate performance to size. The only reason we are still using 2,5" format SSD's is because it fits most current laptops and computers, but basically it's just a (often much smaller) PCB inside a HDD-shaped box. Just before SSD's came, we were still using 3,5" disks for all desktop computers. HDD's have their form because of their internal structure with regards to spinning disks. But SSD's are flash chips not bigger than your fingertip, so these can use much less volume. M.2 is specifically made to be useable from a tablet up to a rackserver.

The Samsung XP941 (PCIe 2.0 x4 M.2) is at the moment the fastest non-enterprise SSD on the market:

Considering the XP941 over a year old, uses a slightly modified controller from an 840 EVO, is meant for notebooks, is still limited to PCIe 2.0 and doesn't use NVMe or newer flash chips, is impressive. Especially considering that Intel P3700 costs about $ 5,000 and is more than just "some flash on a stick".

 

[backfeed]

The only reason we are still using 2,5" format SSD's is because it fits most current laptops and computers

Two more: price and capacity. There aren't any M.2 ssd's with 1TB+ capacity as far as I know, and the prices are ridiculously high. That's why I'm personally not interested. But this will of course change with time.

 

[Phuncz]

Price and availability has to do with the 90-series Intel chipset being the first to natively support it, but it's also not included in every computer yet. It is gaining traction in notebooks though. But my point is valid since most new computers don't support M.2 just yet. But M.2 in the end will be cheaper to produce with less components.

But down the same road: try to find a SATA Express model It is supposed to be next-gen SATA connector to bridge the gap between PCIe, but it's not being picked up at all.

Samsung has an SM951 (PCIe 3.0 x4 + NVMe on M.2) lined up to be released soon and Crucial has also something cooking up with a controller scheduled (PCIe 3.0 x4 + NVMe) and they already have embraced mSATA and M.2.

 

[elshekar]

I dont correlate performance to size. What really happens was that didn't understood "PCIe NVMe SSD's in M.2", that why I was asking for more info.

I know that SSD's in 2,5" are smaller than that size. In fact I was the one who post the photos of an opened 2.5" SSD

My problem was that was a bit newbie in MSATA/M.2 formats and the differences between both

What motherboard you recommend in LGA1150 + fast M.2 (usefull in near future)¿?. TNX!!

And one more thing, that's not offtopic, we are talking about possible builds inside that case

 

[SaperPL]

I'd recommend something quite new, with the latest chipsets, considering there should be a broadwell release just around the corner. And because of that I would go for a cheap overclockable cpu like G3258 and wait for a broadwell with it, or not wait and go for E3-1231V3.

As for the msata/m.2 drives - I don't know. Sadly those ain't widely supported by mITX boards yet.