SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

SaperPL

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Maybe make the holes a bit larger and put a dust filter (like demciflex) on the underside.
That would increase the cost significantly just by the cost of the filter and also by the cost of handling case cover's installation. Case cover is to be installed by sliding it from the back of the case.
 

Vego17

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will it be possible to easily change red led colour to white? cause white one will better fit my rapoo kx
 

EdZ

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How does the cost of cutting a large single opening and spot-welding a square of hex mesh to the inside compare to cutting the horizontal slots?
 

ZombiPL

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How does the cost of cutting a large single opening and spot-welding a square of hex mesh to the inside compare to cutting the horizontal slots?
I know you meant something like this:



or this



or even this (but with hex design)



As a cost, Your 1st option is ofc better, because a metal sheet with ready-made hex mesh is cheaper than that one laser-cut we had in first renders. The problem with it is (just like my bro said before) how to attach this hex-sheet to our cover, because we slide it to close the whole box. It means, we will have a problem to close the case when we will have such additional metal sheet. We're still thinking about it, but this idea has some additional problems, like sharp edges on cut-out square...
 
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backfeed

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I didn't thought about it that way but at the same time the hot air from the gpu might go up to the cpu and the gpu is hotter.

This configuration I thought was better because of the weight I think PSU + CPU + board heatsink would be heavier than a VGA and also the USB ports would be on the bottom this way.
When using a blower type gpu cooler, which I'm guessing is recommended in this case (as in most tight-space cases), the majority of the heat will be pushed outside, so there should only be very little heat potentially going up into the cpu cooler (or psu). Personally I might even use card board to isolate the graphics card into its own chamber, if necessary (which it likely won't be).

I don't mind a higher center of mass, as long as the stand doesn't have too narrow a base area.

Whether the usb ports are at the top or bottom makes no difference to me. :)

I humbly suggest adding the possibility to mount the stand at either the "top" or the "bottom" of the case, unless it adds too much complexity or cost.

Oh, and I like the horizontal vents better than the diagonal. But not being able to have a dust filter on the inside of the panel (due to its sliding-into-place mounting mechanism) would be a deal breaker for me... :(
 

ZombiPL

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There was also one more concept of vent optimization, which Saper forgot to add:

 

DG25

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I think it would look better with angular holes, because the rest of the case is like that, has sharp angles.
 
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niksus

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For me it will be best if ventilation openings will work as fan mounting points too.
Something like this:
 

SaperPL

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For me it will be best if ventilation openings will work as fan mounting points too.
They won't, the case is slim and there's no place for additional coolers except if you're card is smaller/slimmer so you can mount some over there.
 

Screes

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Would it cost more or less to just do 120mm holes over the PSU/GPU/CPU zones and use a standard wire grill like this?:http://www.amazon.com/120mm-Black-Fan-Grill/dp/B005CIZAPA

You'd have significantly less holes to cut (5 per vent location), people could swap out the default grills with what type of grills they prefer (wire, hex, filtered etc etc), and people who want the option of mounting 120mm fans would have it without modding the case. But you would have the increased cost of sourcing black fan grills from someplace.
 

SaperPL

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Yeah, it would be a lot cheaper but again it would mean changing the design of sliding the cover. Also it would look like crap. Things like that are good for the industrial stuff and back side of the case where no one looks. So it would be perfect if we were to make a case with all inlets on the bottom and it wouldn't have the option to put it vertically.
 

SaperPL

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Does anyone know if referring to other company's product in the campaign is legal? I mean if I do refer to valve prototype and/or make a comparison like this:

which is taken from quite successful campaign, will I get blown away by those companies lawyers?
 

backfeed

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As long as everything you say about the competing product is accurate and truthful, there shouldn't be a problem.

But IANAL.
 

SaperPL

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How about covering the steambox prototype problems? And how to talk about getting inspired by such product?
 

backfeed

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I wouldn't worry, as long as you stick to pure facts.

Also, the Steambox prototype can't possible be something that Valve are trying to monetize on. I'd wager that its single purpose is actually to inspire third party case makers.
 

Phuncz

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Just like they were going to release Half-Life 2 Episode 3 huh ? :D
 

PlayfulPhoenix

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Does anyone know if referring to other company's product in the campaign is legal? I mean if I do refer to valve prototype and/or make a comparison like this which is taken from quite successful campaign, will I get blown away by those companies lawyers?[/QUOTE]

Just be truthful and honest, and you're fine - if you pretty much copy and paste exactly from their own website or documentation, that's even better. You only get in trouble if you are intentionally misleading customers about competitors, and even then, only if it's fairly blatant or clearly false.

But, please, don't make a graph like that. There's literally nothing right about how they made that graph. Stick to checklists to compare discrete features.
 

SaperPL

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Yeah, I know. I just wanted to know the boundary. I'm not going for a graph like this. Simple checklists are better. The comparison would take in count features such as:
- dimensions & total volume
- fitting full length dual slot cards
- supported PSU type
- is it a desktop style htpc case or cube

Its obvious we're talking about desktop style htpc case but it must be noted in order to not get compared to cube cases by all other features.

As for the steambox prototype - I'd like to address the problem of custom VGA bracket vs flex or hard riser to explain some of the design decisions.
 

Lakai129

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How long you figure before the KS campaign is ready for launch? Also do you have any inside renders of the case you could share with us?
 

ZombiPL

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How long you figure before the KS campaign is ready for launch? Also do you have any inside renders of the case you could share with us?
We still have several things to work with. We will try to start the campaign before Xmas, but before that we need to have a 100% finished prototype. We have some interior renders, but we're still optimizing it, so You have to wait a little bit.
 

elshekar

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Hi from Spain

First of all. Your case project is AWESOME. Please keep that energy and the share of great ideas that every user gives ;)

Personally before I've found that case, I was between the new Ncase, the B3, the A4SFX... the first one was more big than the others but very nice... but expensive (plus 40$ int shipping). The B3 is nice but is for reference models only. And the A4SFX is very nice too but with more classic design. Both B3 and A4SFX have a reversed GPU. Dont like that, becouse I love the Gigabyte Windforce design, that push the hot air in the same direction of the top part of your case. Is perfect for me! Reversed GPU's will blow the air to the ITX Mainboard in WF3

My respects to the creators of new NCASE, B3, A4, A4SFX ;)

Well I asume in that point some of the first questions are obsolete but:

- My priority is extreme GPU power in the less space, but with long cards (close to 300mm or more)

- 2 x 2,5"(SSD+2,5 HDD) is a must have for the 95% or more of users. Only one 2,5" unit will loose a lot of potential consumers

- I love the metal. Please make the final product as close as the designs you're creating. Looks cold and solid case!

- In terms of the design of the case holes, as the majority thinks, the original look (hex) is by far the coolest design, in harmony with the rest of the case. BIG hex vents. Remember that a too thin metal hex will make the case look too cheap and fragile :/ . The design will be decisive in the final sale units. But the cost of the case is more decisive. If is not affordable the hex design I will choose the second diagonal design. Minimalistic design = better

- Not all the user will use these case as aux pc. That's not true. That will be my main pc. Actually I have a NZXT Vulcan (matx) because the extreme power (SLI, Watercooled) in a small case. Now i want the next step.

- The stand #2 looks great. I dont care if its screwed. I prefer solid and minimalistic stand like #2. Dont understand the problem of the screws. Who will open & close a 6L case every day?. Love that Portal turret style!. And will be beautiful to non gamer eyes ;)

- SFX-L is a must for me. Will be my main pc, close to me, dont want to hear a noisy PSU like the 8mm SFX. Cant remember the name, but European users now have access to one SFX-L unit. Cant remember the brand. Seen here in hardforum SFF part.

- The power button on front please. Better for space and the case needs an identity. Clean front is minimalistic.... but a bit boring :). If you use a ring type power button there will be no problem if you use the vertical or horizontal use

- The price of the case: I've always found that the other cases have a realistic cost but too expensive for me. In my dreams the perfect price is 50$. I supose that 99$ is more realistic. 150$ will be on my limit, but too far from my idea of the cost of a very small case without extras. There are a some designs actually in developement but none of the starts in 50$ as an original idea. That will be the decissive point

- I supose that is decided. But the dilemma of the power cord... I like both. A more thin case and more clean back if the psu cable enters directy. More pr0 look with the connector in the back. I supose a connector in the back = more clients... but a slim case = more clients too ;)

- Very important for me: the shipping cost. I assume that both are from Poland :p. Will be cheaper to European buyers and will evade Customs. Use pages with great shipment costs discounts like for example p2g.com. Still have tracking service. One of the problems of NCASE, for me in Spain, is the 40$ INTERNATION SHIPPING. That's a lot. For example the next SUGO SG13 (11L) will be 30$ or close to that.

I will be one of the first buyers. Please authors sign my case xDDDDD

SORRY 4 MY BAD ENGLISH xD
 
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ZombiPL

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Hi from Spain

First of all. Your case project is AWESOME. Please keep that energy and the share of great ideas that every user gives ;)
Thanks :)

Personally before I've found that case, I was between the new Ncase, the B3, the A4SFX... the first one was more big than the others but very nice... but expensive (plus 40$ int shipping). The B3 is nice but is for reference models only. And the A4SFX is very nice too but with more classic design. Both B3 and A4SFX have a reversed GPU. Dont like that, becouse I love the Gigabyte Windforce design, that push the hot air in the same direction of the top part of your case. Is perfect for me! Reversed GPU's will blow the air to the ITX Mainboard in WF3
This is my actual graphic card, which we will be testing in our case:



Well I asume in that point some of the first questions are obsolete but:

- My priority is extreme GPU power in the less space, but with long cards (close to 300mm or more)
As You ready know, we want to support such cards

- 2 x 2,5"(SSD+2,5 HDD) is a must have for the 95% or more of users. Only one 2,5" unit will loose a lot of potential consumers
If You want to make a case as small as possible, which will suit over 90% of customers, You will have to make some compromises. In our case (probably) the number of 2,5'' hdd/ssds will depend of Your sfx/motherboard/cpu-cooler configuration:

1. Typical motherboard with CPU socket far from PCI-E, normal/small cpu cooler (<49mm) and a SFX psu = 2 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd

2. Motherboard with CPU socket next to PCI-E, very small cpu cooler (<38mm) and a SFX psu = 2 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd

3. Typical motherboard with CPU socket far from PCI-E, normal/small cpu cooler (<49mm) and a SFX-L psu = 1 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd

4. Motherboard with CPU socket next to PCI-E, very small cpu cooler (<38mm) and a SFX-L psu = 1 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd

5. Motherboard with CPU socket next to PCI-E, normal/small cpu cooler (<49mm) and a SFX-L psu = 0 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd.

At this moment we are thinking about possibility of inserting higher number of drives if You will have shorter GPU or if You don't have one (Apart from the the one integrated with CPU).

- I love the metal. Please make the final product as close as the designs you're creating. Looks cold and solid case!
The final design of the case will be in 95% similar to what You can see in renders.

- In terms of the design of the case holes, as the majority thinks, the original look (hex) is by far the coolest design, in harmony with the rest of the case. BIG hex vents. Remember that a too thin metal hex will make the case look too cheap and fragile :/ . The design will be decisive in the final sale units. But the cost of the case is more decisive. If is not affordable the hex design I will choose the second diagonal design. Minimalistic design = better
We want our case to be as cheap as possible but with good-looking and nice cooling efficiency. We've choosen a laser-cutting technique instead of press stamps, because it allows faster prototyping, smaller parts of ordered parts :D and faster delivery to You as a client. But the disadvantage of this technique is that, if You have higher number of holes, than You have to pay more. So we made a design with bigger holes so the numper of them decreased.

And the shape of the holes is still similar. It is like this <===> but with 8 angles. You won't see this in the last renders, because of the image resolution. Maybe in the next renders we will zoom it (or we will make a 4K images for You to make You scrolling forum's page for a week :D)

- Not all the user will use these case as aux pc. That's not true. That will be my main pc. Actually I have a NZXT Vulcan (matx) because the extreme power (SLI, Watercooled) in a small case. Now i want the next step.
We're trying to make a high-end but cheap gaming case. It means it doesn't matter what for You will use Your PC. We want to allow everyone to put inside most of high-end cpu's and gpu's from the market. If You want to use Your pc to watch full HD movies on Your TV, that's OK. If You want to play Crysis, BF, COD, GTA or Tibia in 4K, that's also fine. We're making this case for ourselves (me and and my bro), and we are demanding clients/ engineers. We want most of You to be happy. If we won't be happy with the case, then You won't get it :)

- The stand #2 looks great. I dont care if its screwed. I prefer solid and minimalistic stand like #2. Dont understand the problem of the screws. Who will open & close a 6L case every day?. Love that Portal turret style!. And will be beautiful to non gamer eyes ;)
The stand #2 stayed, it will be screwed with the case, and we still allow to open the case with the stand attached to it (if nothing will change in the actual design)

- SFX-L is a must for me. Will be my main pc, close to me, dont want to hear a noisy PSU like the 8mm SFX. Cant remember the name, but European users now have access to one SFX-L unit. Cant remember the brand. Seen here in hardforum SFF part.
You can use SFX-L psu but at this point You will be able to install only one hdd/ssd drive in the space we've prepared for it. As i wrote above, we are still thinking about inserting more number of drives when You will have shorter GPU or when You will use only integrated with cpu graphic card.

- The power button on front please. Better for space and the case needs an identity. Clean front is minimalistic.... but a bit boring :). If you use a ring type power button there will be no problem if you use the vertical or horizontal use
Ring power button stayed because of simplicity and lower price of installing it.

- The price of the case: I've always found that the other cases have a realistic cost but too expensive for me. In my dreams the perfect price is 50$. I supose that 99$ is more realistic. 150$ will be on my limit, but too far from my idea of the cost of a very small case without extras. There are a some designs actually in developement but none of the starts in 50$ as an original idea. That will be the decissive point
At our first step, we wanted to make a $99 case, but "when we go deeper into the woods" we are trying to make everything below 150$. We will see if we can do it.

In our case we will try to hide the shipping cost in the final price, but we still have to check if there aren't some areas where our case would be cheaper than the transport costs :)

Our case with some support from the "case factory" like "Lian-Li" could cost less in the production, but the disadvantages are too big at this point. Did You ever consider why Necere's case has it's actual price? "Case factory" makes everything cheaper, but... only in production. Everything is fast and cheap, but the factory also wants to earn some money so they take their "piece of pie". What is more, look how long You have to wait until You will get Your M1 case. It is because the manufacturer wants Necere to send them a minimal number of orders (100, 200, 1000... depends on manufacturer). Until there will be a full number of orders, noone will get his case, and that situation can last very long. In our case we have a minimal number of orders set to 10-20 cases so You won't be waiting long. In some cases we can also produce only 1 case (probably by increasing the price by 10-20%, but it's possible). If Necere would want only 1 case, Lian-Li would probably say NO or give him a price like 80-100% higher than in "mass production". This is why we think at the begining we will aim at something like $149 (shipping included). Getting support from the professional case manufacturer would decrease the production costs but also would increase final price of the case.

- I supose that is decided. But the dilemma of the power cord... I like both. A more thin case and more clean back if the psu cable enters directy. More pr0 look with the connector in the back. I supose a connector in the back = more clients... but a slim case = more clients too ;)
As You said, it is decided. 90% of people wants to have a cord which they can disconnect while transporting the case, so we will use standard IEC plug.

- Very important for me: the shipping cost. I assume that both are from Poland :p. Will be cheaper to European buyers and will evade Customs. Use pages with great shipment costs discounts like for example p2g.com. Still have tracking service. One of the problems of NCASE, for me in Spain, is the 40$ INTERNATION SHIPPING. That's a lot. For example the next SUGO SG13 (11L) will be 30$ or close to that.
As i said above: we have to investigate this transport costs deeper. We want to "hide them" in the final price, but we don't know if it will possible.

SORRY 4 MY BAD ENGLISH xD
Don't worry m8. I didn't have problems with reading Your questions and i think no one else will. The forum is to help other people and discuss the ideas, so if You can help, no one will judge You (I'm Polish, and still no one cried about my english :D)
 
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Phuncz

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Also, don't forget mSATA and M.2 are options for an SSD so you have more options to build.

A list of boards with mSATA and M.2:

mSATA:
ASRock Z87E-ITX (SATA-600)
ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ (SATA-600)
Biostar Hi-Fi B85N 3D
Gigabyte GA-B85N (and variants, SATA-600)
Gigabyte GA-H81N (SATA-300)

M.2 SATA:
Asus ROG Z97 Maximus VI Impact (also PCIe 2.0 x1, all lengths)

M.2 PCIe:
ASRock Z97E-ITX/ac (also SATA, 30mm, 42mm)
Asus H97I-PLUS (also SATA, 60mm, 80mm)
Asus Z97I-PLUS (also SATA, 60mm, 80mm)
Asus ROG Z97 Maximus VII Impact (all lengths)
 

SaperPL

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Thanks for the tip on those Phuncz.
I quickly checked images of those and Biostar Hi-Fi B85N 3D is the only one with the unlucky socket configuration, that in our case is blocking the hdd slot over the motherboard:
 
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Phuncz

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Most people will end up buying ASRock, Asus, Gigabyte and MSI anyway. To bad MSI doesn't have anything with mSATA or M.2, they seem to be oblivious to new storage technology.

That Biostar board I just included for sake of being complete, although one or two other boards might pop up. It is not really an interesting board to begin with.

At the moment, I would recommend the ASUS H97I-PLUS or the Z97I-PLUS (if OC'ing) the most, considering price, quality, features and availability.
 

CknSalad

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This case is looking good. Do you have any internal layout renders of the case? Also, what are the dimensions of the stand? I am torn between the A4 SFX and this case now. It's going to be a matter of price and what the temperature results are for the cpu and gpu as well as the ease of cable management.

One point that elshekar (Spain) made was the fact that the A4 case has a flipped GPU. That is my main concern as I wonder how hot the GPU will get over longer gaming sessions since the air would be mostly pushed down and recycled up to the GPU's heatsink.
 
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dondan

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Hi normally i stay in my threads but i think this post can help you too ;)

One point that elshekar (Spain) made was the fact that the A4 case has a flipped GPU. That is my main concern as I wonder how hot the GPU will get over longer gaming sessions since the air would be mostly pushed down and recycled up to the GPU's heatsink.
I dont know why you think the air of the gpu will be pushed down and recycled over the GPU itself? The temperatures are very good, look at the results of my temp test on the actual prototyp (A4-default):


For a blowerstyle card like the reference GTX 980 70% of the air will go out of the backside and 30% in the inside but move up because of physical heat moving. For a dualfan cards there will be move more heat in the inside but can easaly move up. Only 25% of the air be reflect to the GPU itselft.

And for the A4-SFX the temps will be better because of the situation, that the gpu get fresh air directly through the sidepanel. If you have more questions please ask it in the A4-SFX thread.

The steammachine style cases have also no problem with the hot air if you use a blowerstylecard. But with a dualfan card the case should have some holes over the GPU or on the sidepanel, where the powerplugs of the gpu points to it. But guys you cant use your experience of temperatures on bigger case on these ones, because the temps will be better. ;)
Our cases are too small that it is nearly not possible that hot air can retain in it. All important fans for GPU, PSU & CPU get fresh cold air directly through the outside and the hot air can disappear over a very short disctance outside. This means these tiny cases works nearly like the situation you have no case arround the parts. It is definitely not compareable with a meditower or cubecase. :)
 

elshekar

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Hi dondan!!!! An honor to talk with you ;)

Both B3 and A4SFX have a reversed GPU. Dont like that, becouse I love the Gigabyte Windforce design, that push the hot air in the same direction of the top part of your case. Is perfect for me! Reversed GPU's will blow the air to the ITX Mainboard in WF3
I've got WF3 in 670 and 770 and in my cases, the air was always flowing to the top of the GPU. Like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6BLcVWvYw . My preocupation was only in the WF3 design but CknSalad dont say nothing about that :). In terms of cooling I supose that the best is reference model. But my experience with R9 290 in reference was horrible (well that GPU is hot as hell too) in terms of noise and heat. Some friends tell me that Nvidia references are quiet ;)

Great temps that A4 :O

Was a comment of my personal preferences in this topic. In any moment pretended to hurt any other design cases. In fact i'm in love of your cases too and talking about those in spanish forums http://elchapuzasinformatico.com/foro/showthread.php?22577-Caja-Micro-ITX-Gaming-%28Alternativa-Sugo-SG13%29&p=311793&viewfull=1#post311793
 
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elshekar

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2. Motherboard with CPU socket next to PCI-E, very small cpu cooler (<38mm) and a SFX psu = 2 x 2,5'' hdd/ssd
I suppose that we can use non simetric cpu coolers, i mean this type (I dont wanna mean that model).



Do you think with that big and non simetric coolers we can use it in MITX mainboards with the CPU socket close to the PCI-E?

The reason of that question is that im looking for MITX Mainboards in 1155 socket for my i7 3770 that I dont wanna change for now. I find a lot of maiboards too close or too far (I supose is bad too) from de PCI-e like

ASROCK B75M-ITX



GIGABYTE H61N-D2V



Any recomendations for a good quality/value MITX 1155+SATA 3 for that case? Im interested with and without MSATA. Not interested in OC (Have a nonK CPU).
 

Necere

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I suppose that we can use non simetric cpu coolers, i mean this type (I dont wanna mean that model).



Do you think with that big and non simetric coolers we can use it in MITX mainboards with the CPU socket close to the PCI-E?
There are no "non-symmetric" coolers that are short enough to fit in this case. The reason for that is the CPU cooler needs to stay out of the motherboard keep-out zone (i.e., the maximum height that motherboard components can occupy), so there can't be any overhang outside of the socket below that height. The keep-out zone is basically the height of the I/O shield, which you can tell from the images in the first post leaves almost no room in this case.
 

CknSalad

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Hopefully we will see more low profile cpu coolers less than 50mm in height next year in 2015. Seems that North America is stuck with mainly the NHL-9i for now.
 

Phuncz

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The reason of that question is that im looking for MITX Mainboards in 1155 socket for my i7 3770 that I dont wanna change for now.

...

Any recomendations for a good quality/value MITX 1155+SATA 3 for that case? Im interested with and without MSATA. Not interested in OC (Have a nonK CPU).
It depends on where you are located and what (online) stores still have in stock, because the better consumer boards with the 60 and 70-series chipsets aren't being produced anymore. One of the pinnacles of those was the Asus P8Z77-I, one of the few boards that doesn't have the CPU socket next to the PCIe connector. Maybe try to find it as 'used' ?
 

elshekar

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There are no "non-symmetric" coolers that are short enough to fit in this case. The reason for that is the CPU cooler needs to stay out of the motherboard keep-out zone (i.e., the maximum height that motherboard components can occupy), so there can't be any overhang outside of the socket below that height. The keep-out zone is basically the height of the I/O shield, which you can tell from the images in the first post leaves almost no room in this case.
Understood ;)

It depends on where you are located and what (online) stores still have in stock, because the better consumer boards with the 60 and 70-series chipsets aren't being produced anymore. One of the pinnacles of those was the Asus P8Z77-I, one of the few boards that doesn't have the CPU socket next to the PCIe connector. Maybe try to find it as 'used' ?
Ok i'll try to find Asus P8Z77-I and Asus P8H77-I in second hand, or similar if exists. Thx men ;)




An one more thing. Angled connectors like this



to win some space. Usefull? or we need this space for cards with hight heatpipes like this one





By the other hand... aprox dimensions of that space between the hightest part of the GPU PCB and the highter part of the case?
 

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Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
480
An one more thing. Angled connectors like this



to win some space. Usefull?
Those are the female connectors used on graphics cards (and angled connectors are already what's being used in all graphics cards I know of).

I guess you're talking about angled male connectors? Not sure if those exist, but it's possible.
 

SaperPL

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
1,814
we need this space for cards with hight heatpipes like this one





By the other hand... aprox dimensions of that space between the hightest part of the GPU PCB and the highter part of the case?
We're not going to support cards with extended PCB like that. it would require at least an additional inch of case width and also they are built that way to support higher clocks/voltage/power consumption. I believe those would totally overheat in this cramped space.
 
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