And yet, when they commit crimes they are judged as adults.
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School Punishing Students For Refusing RFID Tracking
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And yet, when they commit crimes they are judged as adults.
DarkStar_WNY
2[H]4U
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Oh please, the occurance of this is rare enough that it is still front page news when it does occur.
Most crimes committed by those under 18 are brushed off with nothing more then a slap on the wrist, and maybe if we were a little tougher on teenage criminals early on we would have far fewer cases where their crimes escalate to the point where they are killing other people and end up being tried as an adult.
Lest we forget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Being "tougher" on people has nothing to do with crime. We have more incarcerated people per capita in the United States than any other country. Even Iran doesn't compare. It mostly has to do with the fact that there is a monetary incentive, in the prison industrial complex, to lock as many people up in jail as possible. Proper justice derives from a focus on reparations to the victim, not on punishment or some petty "You hurt me so I hurt you" mentality.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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Yes let's let him walk, because he's only a kid! If you murder something, I don't give a fuck what your background is, you don't deserve to interact with the public. He should have been taken away from his parents/family and put somewhere else, but that still doesn't mean we should try him easier for murder just because he is a kid.
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So it use to be "Hey nerd, do my homework or I'll beat you up."
Now it is:
"Hey nerd, do my homework, and carry this around with you all day, or I'll beat you up."
Now it is:
"Hey nerd, do my homework, and carry this around with you all day, or I'll beat you up."
![Zarathustra[H]](/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1723407683){kind=avatar}
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Meh, they are kids.
Their rights are limited.
I - for one - think this is a very good idea.
Track the brats, smite those who disobey.
Their rights are limited.
I - for one - think this is a very good idea.
Track the brats, smite those who disobey.
Just because some school district is stupid and doesn't turn in attendance until lunch, then doesn't act on it until the end of the day, doesn't automatically mean RFID is the best answer. Perhaps they should turn in attendance soon after it's taken? Cost, 10 minutes of board members voting on the policy and notifying teachers. No no, we need 500,000$ up front cost and thousands of dollars ongoing costs, warranties, technicians to administer....
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You obviously have not experienced the legal system first hand.
My stepson was jumped by people he thought were his friends.
They cracked him over his head with a billy club, fractured his eye socket, stole his wallet, his iPod and a few other things.
When we went to the police, he received constant threats to his life for being a "snitch", including a group of hoodlums taunting him outside the courthouse when we were called in for the first hearing.
The scum that attacked him had multiple priors and was ON PROBATION for violent attacks in the past.
He wasn't punished at all for the incident. There were two court dates, and then nothing else happened.
It is my theory that we are teaching these juvenile delinquents that they can get away with anything. They do something once, nothing happens. They do something twice, they are put on probation and have to talk to some probation officer, but nothing else happens. They do something again, nothing happens.
It takes a bloody miracle for someone to actually be punished for violent crime in this country, its amazing anyone is in prison at all!
Since this starts when these children are teenagers, and they are already biologically programmed to push their limits and base their response on the reaction, what are we teaching them when they can offend, offend and offend again and barely even have their wrists slapped? They are learning that they can do whatever they want, and there will be no repercussions.
If you instead come down on them hard the first time, they will be more conditioned to not do it again.
The reason why our criminal deterrence system doesn't work is because often it doesn't set in until too late, when the kids are already adults. Their personalities and their ways are already set and not likely to change.
What this country needs is more draconian responses to misbehaving kids at a young age, to nip it in the butt before they become adults and the behaviors and way of life are set.
You are unless you can afford to send you kid to a private school ($6K-$20K out here in Southern California for grade/high school). Even if you home school, they basically make it impossible with the regulations and paperwork to do completely on your own. It's best to join a certified home school program and pay a few hundred $ to have them handle the paperwork & standardized testing.
If you don't have a parent who can stay home & can handle home schooling, and you don;t have an extra $10K, then YES, you are FORCE to go to public schools.
Some school districts have even resorted to arresting parents of kids who miss too much school.
RFID tags are brought to you by the same people who thought netbooks where going to fix the schools, and now think iPads are the solution.
Money and Technology can't fix what's wrong with the public schools. They are rotting from within, and nothing with fix them short of gutting the entire system and replacing it with something new.
Don't know what school she went to, but my kid goes to a "christian" school, and the kids constantly score well about the public schools on standardized testing. Plus the science program puts the local public schools science program to shame. they teach the kids to think, and yes, they even teach evolution as the THEORY it is.
Only brain washing I see is in the local public schools that promote the failed liberal/progressive ideas which are contrary to what most parents believe in.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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The concept of charter schools hasn't gained much ground, has it?
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The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is our best explanation for the FACT of evolution. It has been tested and scrutinized for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.
To teach ANYTHING related to religious belief in a science class is absolute insanity. It doesn't matter what parents believe in.
Until we separate religious dogma from education we will always have some of the worst schools in the world, and our country will continue to fall further and further behind.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with teaching religion in schools, as long as it is done objectively. You know, "some people believe in X, and some people believe in Y", but you can never, NEVER teach any facet of religion as established fact, or even remotely elevate it to the same level of truth as established scientific paradigm.
If you do this, then you are no better than the Taliban.
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You sound like a helicopter parent.
Maybe we should just keep em radio-collar tagged and locked in a prison surrounded by guards and airbags for every possible contingency. Life isn't certain, and how you treat kids when they are young will determine what kind of adults they will be. For every kid who gets kidnapped by a stranger, there's a 1,000,000 other ones who learned a bit of independence and self-control and turned into decent adults. How the hell previous generations survived at all without big brother firmly embedded up our is a giant mystery to me.
Hmmm.. is that a bad thing
Seriously, I do my best to let my kids experience things, but hey they are 6 and 3. No 6 year old needs to be wandering the neighborhood streets without adult supervision, no matter how safe you think your neighborhood is.
I believe in taking an active role in my child's school system. We attend PTO meetings, my wife volunteers to help in the room once a week (the school asks for volunteers, we didn't seek it out) and I try to help out at the school once a month just doing things like hall monitor or something. If she has a problem in class, we don't go jumping to conclusion that we need to have a meeting with her teacher, instead we try to get her to discuss the problem with her teacher herself. For example, a couple of the boys at her table last year (kindergarden, they had 4 kids to a table) would bother her and talk to her during class so she couldn't pay attention. She didn't like it, so we told her to talk to her teacher and they decided to move the boys to a differnt table (and split them up). We didn't hover over her, or talk to the teacher ourselves, instead we gave her advice and let her handle it.
There is a difference between being an "overprotective" parent (like my parents were) and just being worried about your child's safety and well-being. I was 11 before my parents let me stay overnight at a friend's house who's parents weren't really good friends with them. My daughter has stayed the night with her friends a couple times and is going on a Girl Scout camping trip later this year... so no I don't feel like we are "hovering" over her.
A lot of the posters seem to be "1984 worriers" that see every sort of monitoring as an invasion in privacy and "big gov watching me"
There is a place for privacy and my child's whereabouts is not that place.The schools have a responsibility to accurately monitor who comes on campus and leaves campus. If RFID tags help with this monitoring, I just don't understand where the invasion of privacy is. I'm not talking about tracking them off premises on weekends, at home, etc. I'm talking about tracking them when they are under the supervision of a school system. I guess those that are against it are the same ones that could never work for a government office, or any company that requires you to badge in and out of work? Heaven forbid they know when you come to work and leave right?
Please explain why a 3rd grader, or even a high school student, should need the privacy to come and go off the campus grounds without anyone's knowledge?
To take it to an extreme lets say that they actually monitor where all the students are (in my daughters K-4th school, that is approximately 1500 blips on the screen in the school building). Explain why it would be a bad thing for them to see that her dot has been sitting in the bathroom for the last 10 minutes?
There are only two arguments I can find reasonable to this.
1) Security breaches - if there is really any information in the RFID other than a student name, and if it is possibly to get the data and track it off campus
2) Cost - which, considering everything else my tax money is wasted on, I'm okay with the extra money being spent on it. I'm more concerned with my taxes being wasted on government salaries (governors, president, senators, representatives, etc. - were supposed to be positions of servatude to the people), our neverending military funds, and things like bailouts for companies that should maintain financial reserves and change their business practices with the times or move out of the way for other companies.
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Nope. There are some charter schools in some places, but they are few and far between and don't come even close to satisfying the demand.
Poor regulation of charter schools have also led to some being shut down around here as they failed to keep up with state standards.
The truth is, most families require two income earners in order to stay afloat. For most families having one parent stay home and home school is not even close to an option, if they also want to eat and have a roof over their heads.
Private schools and their ridiculous expense are similarly out of reach for most people.
You may have been lucky to grow up in a wealthy family where this isn't the case. You may be lucky to be the parent in a wealthy family where this isn't the case, but the median family income in America is $45,000. $45,000 a year. For a family. Not an individual earner.
The truth is that both private schooling and home schooling is out of reach for all but the few top percent of income earners in America, as are good public schools, as they tend to be in the neighborhoods where housing is the most expensive, and most people can't afford to live.
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A lot of the posters seem to be "1984 worriers" that see every sort of monitoring as an invasion in privacy and "big gov watching me"
Worrying about privacy is not a bad thing... for adults.
For children (including teenagers) a certain level of control is necessary in order to make sure they don't go astray. Privacy for children (including teenagers) should not be a concern. Their parents, teachers and any other authority figure in their lives have the responsibility to know where they are, what they are doing and who they are with every second of every day, otherwise they are not doing their jobs.
Bad things happen when kids (including teenagers) have too much privacy. Once they are adults, they can make decisions for themselves, but until that time "privacy" should not be a concern.
Zarathustra[H];1039218866 said:
+1
This is basic parenting 101.
How many time have you seen a young kid (like 3 or 4) yelling, screaming, or throwing/beaking things, and the parent basically ignores what is going on?
These same parents when wonder why the kid never listens to them.....
We have a few charter schools, and every year the teacher's union tries to shut them down.
My niece tried to get into a very highly rated charter high school, but the local school district (with one of the worse high schools in the area) wouldn't allow her to transfer.
In order to get into a charter school, you have to get permission from your local school district. Even though the law says they have to allow the transfer, they will deny the transfer and tell you to appeal it. They delay the hearings for the appeals, until its too late to get into the Charter school.
The Charter school told them this happens all the time, and there was nothing they could do about it.
Zarathustra[H];1039218993 said:
Show me the FACT where science has proved one species evolved into another species.
You need to seperate micro evolution from macro evolution. Changes within species is provable.
Changes that turn one species into another species has not been proven, and is nothing more than guess work.
Zarathustra[H];1039218993 said:
Never said that. Science is taugh in science class, and religion in religion class.
As for separating religious dogma from education, we have done that in the public schools over the past 30+ years, and the quality of the education has been dropping ever since.
Looking at the facts, you could easily draw the conclusion that removing religion from the public schools has resulted in a worsening education.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with teaching religion in schools, as long as it is done objectively. You know, "some people believe in X, and some people believe in Y", but you can never, NEVER teach any facet of religion as established fact, or even remotely elevate it to the same level of truth as established scientific paradigm.
If you do this, then you are no better than the Taliban.[/QUOTE]
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Zarathustra[H];1039219031 said:
I suppose that's all true. Ideally, charter schools would be kept to certain standards, but be less influenced/deadlocked by the political teachers union bodies. They would need support from the communities to grow and flourish. Having a handful per state doesn't allow them to prove their usefulness, especially when squeezed.
Do you believe in bones and or geology? Or perhaps god is intentionally trying to screw with you?
ol1bit
[H]ard|Gawd
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In AZ, a specific school wanted to fingerprint my kid for school lunches. I said F that, what are there security standards, etc. They bent to my will and my son had to memorize his id, big whoop. Guess what, 2 years later they stopped the finger print scanning. I wonder how many kids finger prints were lost during that time, or what happened to all the ones they had? Did they destroy the storage? I doubt it.
School isn't about education so much as making people a functioning member of society. The school system "teaching" goes so fucking slow it doesn't surprise me in the slightest you could home school your kid two or three or even four years above normal.
I missed most of years 7-11 from illness, wasn't home schooled either (technically I was, but I didn't do any of the work, lol) and went straight in to the 2nd half of year 11 and then 12 (our final years in Australia) and got in the top 3% of the state for maths and sciences and the top 4% overall in my final year of high school. Went in to Engineering and graduated with 1st class honours.
It's not that I'm a genius, it's that the school system doesn't actually teach you anything, it just provides a place for your kids to go during the day to take them off your hands, get them used to working with other people and getting them ready for their 9-5 jobs.
This is not SOP.
What your district was doing was part of a mandated audit that schools must perform every 3-5 years to update their data on how many students qualify for free and reduced lunch.
Fingerprinting is done for an entire year.. at which point all the data is tallied and sent to the state department of education. Childrens' names are not included.. simply an aggregate number of how many students are free and reduced. This ties DIRECTLY into the amount of state and federal funding a school district receives. And can be the difference between qualifying for federal programs like e-rate depending on the free and reduced percentage.
Your school didn't just "stop" finger printing.. they were done with their audit, and then went back to the normal method of typing in an ID number or flashing an ID badge (every district is a little different)
You have unlocked "Anecdotal Evidence Achievement" congratulations!
Zarathustra[H];1039218866 said:
The proper punishment would be to force them to pay reparations to your stepson. An ideal justice system would force them to get a job and every single cent they earn, beyond what is necessary in order to provide for basic room and board, would go towards compensating your stepson for the emotional trauma, pain and suffering, medical bills and the stolen property. If they refuse to work, they do not get food.
Prison is a lousy form of punishment because it further victimizes the victim. Why should you, or your stepson, have to pay taxes that go towards feeding and clothing those who have victimized him while they sit and do nothing?
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Yeah, because destroying property is a good way to show you don't agree with something. Guess I need to go blow up a couple things since I don't agree with military spending
And we all used to use the dewey decimal system to find library books. Progress happens.
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1984 anyone?
Submit slaves!
Submit slaves!
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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Meh, I wish I would have stayed in Germany and went to school there. It's painful how shitty it is here in the US. I hate being in a school with a bunch of people who are so stupid. I take AP classes, yet the ones where I just take CP I still have these fucking idiots. I can't wait to be done with this school.
Ironic example considering the Dewey decimal system is still used exactly the same way.
Arbitrary, unnecessary changes are not progress.
Have fun with the rest of life.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
The difference being that I would expect engineers to be slightly smarter than people who get D's in the easiest classes.
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