I see. You can't make the "Doesn't waste die space on RT cores" argument anymore, so you are hoping you can still continue with the "doesn't waste die space on Tensor cores" argument.
I have a feeling I know which you will be buying...
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RTX 3xxx performance speculation
- Thread starter Nebell
- Start date
I see. You can't make the "Doesn't waste die space on RT cores" argument anymore, so you are hoping you can still continue with the "doesn't waste die space on Tensor cores" argument.
I have a feeling I know which you will be buying...
I have seen two years of endless complaints about die space wasted on RT. Now that RT is going to be universal, and you shift that complaint to Tensor cores. It doesn't really matter if you specifically made that argument before, for it to look like you are just retreading that tired argument.
You are shifting the argument. It doesn't make any difference if someone else made the original form of it.
Hagrid
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Universal yes. In much use right now, no. I would love to see 2 cards. One with RT and one without. I would rather not have RT until it is in more games.
It is actually kind of wasted space.
I am sure we would all love products built exactly to our specifications. That isn't how things work though, especially for products dependent on complex silicon.
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You nailed it when it comes to RT. Don't get me wrong I am a huge SP game, and I expect RT to be used in those style games (Cyberpunk). But in MP types games, it makes no different imo, and same with DLSS.
I could of not worded it any better than you did!
Hagrid
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I know, it's a dream......
Why wouldn't DLSS benefit multiplayer games? I get the argument that Ray Tracing is a performance hit, so a potential detriment to multiplayer games.
But DLSS is a performance enhancer. It should be desirable in MP for the same reason Ray Tracing is not.
Yeah you would expect the same people who disable shadows and grass to play at 1080p 240hz would love DLSS.
The nice thing about RT is it just makes existing hacks less hacky. So it’s relatively straight forward for games to include both RT and a fallback option. That won’t apply to consoles of course but given Nvidia’s developer relations track record I’m sure we will see significant adoption on the PC.
5150Joker
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So far we’ve seen DLSS in a grand total of zero MP games which points to it not being suitable for them. Otherwise nvidia would’ve definitely included it with Warzone and shouted from the rooftops about even 2060 getting 200+ FPS. If they can improve DLSS to be used in games like that then of course it would be a killer feature but right now it’s not.
Edit: Someone pointed out BF:V which I forgot about but that was still a disappointing DLSS 1.0 game. I haven't seen a single DLSS 2.0 MP game.
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I want 3090 performance that doesn't turn my office into a sauna. The rest would be gravy.
BFV had DLSS, so it's not that it isn't suited for MP games. With DLSS 3.0 supposedly being able to work on any game that uses TAA, it will become usable in many more.
5150Joker
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I don’t think DLSS 3.0 is anything but a rumor. I did forget about BF:V but that was DLSS 1.0 afaik.
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The thing with DLSS that bothers me, is they have to implement it into the games. So you are at the mercy of Nvidia.....And the last time we were at the mercy of a technology (SLI) from Nvidia they dropped it.
I would rather not have to wait for driver updates to get an Nvidia feature on a game. That is also another reason why I am not so into RT in some ways.
But, I am still very interested in the 3090 GTX!
I would rather not have to wait for driver updates to get an Nvidia feature on a game. That is also another reason why I am not so into RT in some ways.
But, I am still very interested in the 3090 GTX!
Factum
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You might want to edit that post.
DX11 (and below): Multi-GPU is handled in the driver by AMD/NVIDIA.
DX12 (and onwards): Multi-GPU is handled by the game (developer) and n ot in the driver anymore...courtsy of Miscrosoft.
I fail to see you "argument"?
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And what games can u currently name that are directx12 only? Off the top of my head I can’t think of any but I am sure there is a few. Hell the new flight simulator is dx11.
Nvidia just has way too many technology’s they stopped supporting. gameworks, 3d vision, Sli. Imo dlss looks to be a dud too. Right now RT is on the fence.
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Take it easy bro, not everyone has a Doctorates in game development theory.
Gotta agree. I could maybe understand people being confused early on but anyone still claiming RT is somehow an Nvidia thing is intentionally being obtuse or willfully spreading nonsense.
It’s a core feature of DirectX 12 for goodness sake.
Also, I wasn’t aware nvidia stopped supporting PhysX and gameworks. Both are alive and well.
Wolfenstein Youngblood: Has coop multiplayer and DLSS 2.0.
MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries has DLSS 2.0 and multiplayer
There never was any logical reason why DLSS wouldn't work with multiplayer.
DLSS 2.0 is a 2020 feature, so the only chance to get it would be in new games released in 2020, and of course developers would have to want to take the time to do it.
I can't imagine NVidia dropping this tech, it's such an advantage in supported games.
RamboZombie
Limp Gawd
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Thia right here:
how many games show a meaning full difference with RT? any at all? or are they just moar pretty?
Consoles will drive development - so the amount of RT on the weakest console will be the development ceiling - well unless nV ponies up the cash to make it otherwise.
DLSS will be a killer feature in the games it will end up supporting - it's not present in consoles - so nV will have to pay developers to implement the feature, and so far they arent doing a stellar job.
right now - these features are extremely underwelming, and taxing on the first gen- hardware that are perfoming poorly - DLSS is kinda cool, but not really supported.
So as an owner of a 2080 - i would totally buy and this all powerfull card - that does not waste silicon on unused things.
So Go Big Navi... give me a reason to upgrade this year, or those consoles look like the better buy from where i am sittng.
The new PS5 controller seem to evolve gaming more than nV has done in the last year-- imho
Nonsense. Consoles never limited the visuals on PC except on a few widely criticized terrible console ports.
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I don't get the wasted silicon argument for RT. IF you don't have the hardware for a feature it will not be coded for. RT is the future and it's just getting started. Have to start somewhere.
It was primarily a partisan argument. AMD was better because it didn't "waste" silicon on RT. I was really looking forward to AMD getting RT so that lame argument would be moot. But apparently some people want to carry on using it, but with Tensor cores as the "waste"...
Factum
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Ignore those muppets, as they ignore how little diespace is used by Raytracing Cores + Tensor Cores and how little extra perfomance would be had if that dies pace where converted into SM/CUDA Cores...nothing but "the grapes are sour" posts.
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Sure DLSS and RT isnt useful in ALL games. But the 2080 super and 2080 ti are still the fastest GPUs presently for gaming period overall. With new cards right around the corner and anyone looking at dropping $350 or more on any GPU should be interested in cards that support as much tech as possible right?! In no way would I personally invest over $400 in a GPU that cant take advantage of current gaming tech and features.
Well I’m certainly glad you’re not a graphics company CEO. If it was up to you we would still be running on DirectX 7.
Guess what, every new feature has to first be “unused” before it’s used.
RamboZombie
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guess what - i aint paying to be a beta user anymore - but best of luck to the rest of you..
and to say that Consoles never held back gaming on the pc is just wrong. but hey - something about arguing on the internet against fanboys and all that, it's a lose-lose situation - i for one am very sad that i am not running as a CEO - i would look damned good in leather!
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Do we know if the reference/founders cooler on the 3090 is a blower (exhaust) type or not?
Not sure what point you’re making really. You’re anti-progress on PC and also mad at consoles for holding back progress. So you’re just anti-everything?
There was a cooler leak. That was NOT a blower, but an unusual dual fan design with fans on both sides of the card. No guarantee this novel cooler is the NVidia FE card design.
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/n...-division-is-no-longer-the-biggest-moneymaker
More reason why I think enterprise gets 7nm and consumer gets 8nm.
More reason why I think enterprise gets 7nm and consumer gets 8nm.
Eh, I bet gaming takes back the crown if Ampere is any good.
Games that support raytracing and upcoming games, which I count 17 upcoming ones:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/games-support-nvidia-ray-tracing/
How many of those will be must play games is to be seen. First generation I want to play Control with RT (never finished it without RT, good game), Metro, other than those two that is probably it. Burnt out on Wolfenstein. At least for me that is not a lot to miss out on. As for the next RT games, we definitely need more of them. Dying Light 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Vampire looks to be top contenders for next generation.
Here is a better list that include DLSS:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/07/02/all-the-confirmed-ray-tracing-and-dlss-games-so-far/
For some it is more than just a new generational GPU, A monitor or TV to get the benefit of the new GPU may also be in order which can get rather costly in the end. A next generation console plus OLED TV might be cheaper than just one video card.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/games-support-nvidia-ray-tracing/
How many of those will be must play games is to be seen. First generation I want to play Control with RT (never finished it without RT, good game), Metro, other than those two that is probably it. Burnt out on Wolfenstein. At least for me that is not a lot to miss out on. As for the next RT games, we definitely need more of them. Dying Light 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Vampire looks to be top contenders for next generation.
Here is a better list that include DLSS:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/07/02/all-the-confirmed-ray-tracing-and-dlss-games-so-far/
For some it is more than just a new generational GPU, A monitor or TV to get the benefit of the new GPU may also be in order which can get rather costly in the end. A next generation console plus OLED TV might be cheaper than just one video card
.RT and Tensor core die space:
RT cores and Tensor cores are not just little islands, throw them on the chip and it magically will work. How much space is added for the additional logic, pathways etc. for the rest of the chip to work with them? We actually compared chip size of Pascal to Turing based on Cuda cores but since Turing has modified Cuda cores and other stuff that method is probably not accurate. In other words how much real die space to have RT and Tensor cores is really known by Nvidia. Some will say, hey we have Turing without those, yeah that would be correct, still the logic or how designed would be similar enough, even if not used that could be added on the 1600 series card inflating the die space needed.
The point is who cares? They are there and in the case for the Tensor cores, when they are active with DLSS, giving not only better IQ but virtually 50% better performance, that is one hell of efficient use of that die space. Probably the most efficient die space usage of all time.
RT cores and Tensor cores are not just little islands, throw them on the chip and it magically will work. How much space is added for the additional logic, pathways etc. for the rest of the chip to work with them? We actually compared chip size of Pascal to Turing based on Cuda cores but since Turing has modified Cuda cores and other stuff that method is probably not accurate. In other words how much real die space to have RT and Tensor cores is really known by Nvidia. Some will say, hey we have Turing without those, yeah that would be correct, still the logic or how designed would be similar enough, even if not used that could be added on the 1600 series card inflating the die space needed.
The point is who cares? They are there and in the case for the Tensor cores, when they are active with DLSS, giving not only better IQ but virtually 50% better performance, that is one hell of efficient use of that die space. Probably the most efficient die space usage of all time.
Factum
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You should have googled a little bit harder:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/baaqb0/rtx_adds_195mm2_per_tpc_tensors_125_rt_07/
If you think Nvidia is a gaming company first and foremost, you really aren't paying attention to what they do. Gaming gpu's are simply a nice easy byproduct that they get to sell for nice margin these days.
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I have always used blower coolers. My case is Silverstone FT01. It has a big 180 mm air penetrator intake on the front, 180 mm air penetrator intake on the top, and a 120 mm exhaust out the back. It supplies plenty if fresh air to the GPU but it doesn't exactly directly blast it with air directly.
Am I going to have a problem with a 3090 with reference cooler if it isn't a blower? The design of the FT01, I believe, is based on drawing air in from the front and out of the back of the video card. I have never used a non exhausting GPU cooler with this case. Hmmmm.
Am I going to have a problem with a 3090 with reference cooler if it isn't a blower? The design of the FT01, I believe, is based on drawing air in from the front and out of the back of the video card. I have never used a non exhausting GPU cooler with this case. Hmmmm.
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Has anyone confirmed or debunked that Techtown rumor that 3090 might be only like $1,500?
Not really relevant. The point is we’re entering an upgrade cycle soon which will drive gaming revenue.