RTX 3xxx performance speculation

noko said:
Maxwell killed AMD in the mobile market followed up by Pascal - literally slaughtered. Now with Turing and AMD Navi, AMD is making a come back. How long and successful that comeback will depend upon Ampere which should be better efficiency wise than Turing. Then again AMD will have refreshes as well, plus RNDA 2 will come out, so AMD may continue to make a recovery in the mobile market. Long ways to go there.
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Only now has AMD really shown that they have the efficiency to compete in mobile, and that's against Turing on a previous node as well as on the desktop where idle efficiency makes very little difference in overall power usage (if it's worth making the comparison at all).

Still, AMD could absolutely push out a mobile product today and compete well enough to be an option with big OEMs -- and the biggest draw to me for AMD mobile GPUs is that in pushing them out with AMD CPUs, perhaps we can start seeing VRR everywhere.

I'm bigger on mobility than top-end performance when it comes to mobile, but I also consider VRR to be a requirement for whatever I buy next.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Only now has AMD really shown that they have the efficiency to compete in mobile, and that's against Turing on a previous node as well as on the desktop where idle efficiency makes very little difference in overall power usage (if it's worth making the comparison at all).

Still, AMD could absolutely push out a mobile product today and compete well enough to be an option with big OEMs -- and the biggest draw to me for AMD mobile GPUs is that in pushing them out with AMD CPUs, perhaps we can start seeing VRR everywhere.

I'm bigger on mobility than top-end performance when it comes to mobile, but I also consider VRR to be a requirement for whatever I buy next.
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Yes, I see AMD has a window now but that can be shut looking ahead if Nvidia gets next gen tech down. What I mean is AI stuff like DLSS being used in more games, any other unique worthwhile stuff. Rendering at a lower quality resolution and looking better than a higher rendered resolution with a large increase in performance has been shown now with DLSS in a real game. I call that a game changer - > If that can be replicated, improved upon (DLSS seems to be improving on each major usage of it) with easier more accessible tools, in a laptop that would give better battery life if used, less heat, higher performance and IQ - win, win, win. I am thinking more inline that AI is the next paradigm shift for gaming, more so than RTX - Just have to see if Nvidia can pull it off. I do not think AMD is at that caliber yet. Probably more forward looking than Ampere but Ampere I see has the proving grounds for much up coming new way of doing things. I hope so at least.

AMD advantage is they can tie together the Chipset/CPU or APU/GPU giving a cost advantage, less R&D from the manufacture saving cost and better overall discounts. Intel will have this advantage as well which will really push Nvidia to break ahead. Still Nvidia biggest advantage is their whole software Eco-system, Cuda, Professional Program support, AI, gaming code . . . the list goes on and on.
 
Factum said:
No one is forcing you to buy?
I could buy a 2080 Ti every month with my "for fun money"...get a better job perhaps, but do stop whining about stuff you will never buy.
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People like you are the reason we can't have nice things.
Stop making it sound like gaming is a luxury hobby.
It's not. You have no idea what a luxury hobby is. You're middle class so don't act like you're not.

Anyway, here's an interesting article about next-gen Tesla cards supposedly being 70% faster than current gen.
https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/83825-next-gen-nvidia-gpus-power-big-red-200.html
 
If all the rumors prove correct on this next series, I am very much looking forward to a 3080Ti. 4K at high FPS will actually become common and possibly easily achievable on it!
 
I'd like to see more memory become a standard and game developers actually use it. I know that game installs are going to need like 500gb, but c'mon, ~~are we there yet?~~
 
Nebell said:
People like you are the reason we can't have nice things.
Stop making it sound like gaming is a luxury hobby.
It's not. You have no idea what a luxury hobby is. You're middle class so don't act like you're not.

Anyway, here's an interesting article about next-gen Tesla cards supposedly being 70% faster than current gen.
https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/83825-next-gen-nvidia-gpus-power-big-red-200.html
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While I dont give a F 'bout Factums rant, Gaming is a bit of a luxury don't ya think?

Definition of luxury

1: a condition of abundance or great ease and comfort : sumptuous environment ived in luxury
2a: something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary one of life's luxuries
b: an indulgence in something that provides pleasure, satisfaction, or ease, had the luxury of rejecting a handful of job offers— Terri Minsky
 
Auer said:
While I dont give a F 'bout Factums rant, Gaming is a bit of a luxury don't ya think?
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Also as far as hobbies go PC gaming is very cheap. You can put together a very nice machine + monitor for under $1000. Upgrade the GPU for $250 every 2 years and you’re set especially if you go used.
 
MangoSeed said:
Also as far as hobbies go PC gaming is very cheap. You can put together a very nice machine + monitor for under $1000. Upgrade the GPU for $250 every 2 years and you’re set especially if you go used.
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Yep, it may fit the definition of a "luxury hobby" but that definition also depends on the individual.
For some people, a "Luxury hobby" may be racing their own Ferraris at the track for the weekend, and for some poorer people, a "Luxury hobby" may be playing Xbox while snacking all day.
For the rich dude they may view gaming as a "poor man's hobby" since it is relatively cheap.

Now we know that Factum considers gaming as his "luxury hobby", good for him. You go buy that 2080Ti every month...
There are people that spend 10x that just for dinner.
 
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Rockenrooster said:
Yep, it may fit the definition of a "luxury hobby" but that definition also depends on the individual.
For some people, a "Luxury hobby" may be racing their own Ferraris at the track for the weekend, and for some poorer people, a "Luxury hobby" may be playing Xbox while snacking all day.
For the rich dude they may view gaming as a "poor man's hobby" since it is relatively cheap.
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Gaming is a luxury period -- it is also a hobby.

That some people consider it a 'cheap' luxury hobby has no relation to what it is.

Rockenrooster said:
Now we know that Factum considers gaming as his "luxury hobby", good for him. You go buy that 2080Ti every month...
There are people that spend 10x that just for dinner.
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No need for the personal callouts, as it should be apparent that everyone's priorities here are going to be different with respect to what is considered 'acceptable' for a luxury hobby.
 
Luxury hobby, what a joke. It's a productivity machine or a entertainment machine and most people set a budget for both far lower then what 1 2080ti costs. Try having a race car if you want to talk about a luxury hobby.
 
III_Slyflyer_III said:
If all the rumors prove correct on this next series, I am very much looking forward to a 3080Ti. 4K at high FPS will actually become common and possibly easily achievable on it!
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This is what I'm hoping for. My 1080ti is starting to struggle for 4K 60FPS. I could never justify the jump to a 2080Ti. Ray tracing isn't a big sell for me and $1200 for a card that still can't hit 4K60 on all games, no thanks. I know Nvidia is in a solid position, but here's to hoping for a small step back on the high end SKU. If it boasts significant gains over my 1080Ti, I'm willing to drop a grand on a new card. That's my max though.
 
Gideon said:
Luxury hobby, what a joke. It's a productivity machine or a entertainment machine and most people set a budget for both far lower then what 1 2080ti costs. Try having a race car if you want to talk about a luxury hobby.
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The joke is that you're continuing to further attempt to push the discussion off topic by arguing against documented definitions using your personal opinion.

Can we get back on topic, please?
 
Gideon said:
Luxury hobby, what a joke. It's a productivity machine or a entertainment machine and most people set a budget for both far lower then what 1 2080ti costs. Try having a race car if you want to talk about a luxury hobby.
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I find it funny that the reason this topic of being a "luxury hobby" is because Nvidia is pricing their highest end GPUs so high. And then people brag about having x amount to spend on said PC part.

I just really want a decently priced GPU that is a decent amount faster than mine (2x-3x as fast as RX580 for $200 would be nice) to I can justify an upgrade and we need competition to do that, I'm hoping AMD has something to compete with Ampere as these rumors seem to point to Ampere being a beast, I mean Nvidia has a FULL node shrink to work with and we already know what kind of improvements they can make (or are capable of making) on the SAME node (Kepler->Maxwell).
If AMD has nothing to compete with Ampere, you can 100% expect highend Ampere to be priced out of most people's markets. Same thing happened when Athlon ruled the roost, OG FX chips were super expensive because Intel (P4) didn't have much.
People wanting only one side to "win" only makes things more expensive.
 
Rockenrooster said:
I find it funny that the reason this topic of being a "luxury hobby" is because Nvidia is pricing their highest end GPUs so high. And then people brag about having x amount to spend on said PC part.

I just really want a decently priced GPU that is a decent amount faster than mine (2x-3x as fast as RX580 for $200 would be nice) to I can justify an upgrade and we need competition to do that, I'm hoping AMD has something to compete with Ampere as these rumors seem to point to Ampere being a beast, I mean Nvidia has a FULL node shrink to work with and we already know what kind of improvements they can make (or are capable of making) on the SAME node (Kepler->Maxwell).
If AMD has nothing to compete with Ampere, you can 100% expect highend Ampere to be priced out of most people's markets. Same thing happened when Athlon ruled the roost, OG FX chips were super expensive because Intel (P4) didn't have much.
People wanting only one side to "win" only makes things more expensive.
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The high-end has always been out of most people's market. Most sales are at the sub $350 level. People complaining about the cost of the 2080 Ti aren't in the market for one for the most part. Just look above to see how most people want to buy a whole PC for less than the cost of a Ti.

Nvidia will never please the something for nothing people.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
The joke is that you're continuing to further attempt to push the discussion off topic by arguing against documented definitions using your personal opinion.

Can we get back on topic, please?
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You got a report button use it, otherwise I dont care what you think as it is all opinion. Kind of hard to speculate on the 3000 series performance since we know next to nothing about it's hardware other then vague references.
 
DooKey said:
The high-end has always been out of most people's market. Most sales are at the sub $350 level. People complaining about the cost of the 2080 Ti aren't in the market for one for the most part. Just look above to see how most people want to buy a whole PC for less than the cost of a Ti.

Nvidia will never please the something for nothing people.
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There was once a time that "highest end" was $500-550. As early as 2012.
Look at what lackluster competition has brought us.... $1200 2080Ti's. Cards are getting faster but price isn't coming down.
At the opposite end of the spectrum look at what Ryzen brought us...You can now get an 8 core Intel or AMD for less than $500.

The high end may be out of most people's market but we as comsumers don't need that ceiling to keep getting higher, but that is what is happening, its unfortunate (for comsumers, not Nvidia as a company, I'm sure they are happy lol).
 
Rockenrooster said:
There was once a time that "highest end" was $500-550. As early as 2012.
Look at what lackluster competition has brought us.... $1200 2080Ti's. Cards are getting faster but price isn't coming down.
At the opposite end of the spectrum look at what Ryzen brought us...You can now get an 8 core Intel or AMD for less than $500.

The high end may be out of most people's market but we as comsumers don't need that ceiling to keep getting higher, but that is what is happening, its unfortunate (for comsumers, not Nvidia as a company, I'm sure they are happy lol).
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If you aren't in the market for a high-end card you shouldn't be complaining. There's a card for you in another price zone. You can buy quite good cards for mainstream gaming for less than $300.
 
DooKey said:
If you aren't in the market for a high-end card you shouldn't be complaining. There's a card for you in another price zone. You can buy quite good cards for mainstream gaming for less than $300.
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This is EXACTLY my point, the GTX 1660Ti is only about 20-30% faster than my RX580 which is 3 year old card (a refresh of an already 1 year old card at that). The 5600xt is also in the price range but the increase in performance isn't enough (looking for 2x).
You don't seem to get this at all, but that is expected since you're sitting on your 3950x/2080Ti high horse (wish i had a system like yours BTW). Some people want to have some raytracing goodness for less than $300...
The $200-$300 range hasn't got any love except for the 5600xt really. I'm hoping that Ampere will help change that but from looking at recent history I don't think I can count on that from Nvidia. It'll eventually get there but when???
 
so if amd's card is 2080ti + the next gen 3xxx will see another jump from 1080ti price to 2080ti price? by this a 3080ti will be $4000+ and a Titan will replace Quadro prices its almost like Nvidia is pushing the gaming products up every gen into pro series pricing, the locked the drivers so people/corps would stop buying 2080ti's instead of Quadros for Servers/Work related task's, im worried well see a $6000 Titan soon, plus lets prey the dont release as many revisions of Titan for ppl who actually buy them,
 
Rockenrooster said:
Some people want to have some raytracing goodness for less than $300...
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This... isn't happening for another year or two, at the earliest, as much as we would like it to and as much as it would prod the industry forward. The technology isn't quite there yet, in terms of hardware per the topic, nor the software, really.

Most likely the architectures that replace Ampere / Big Navi will push the tech down to that price level, and even then it's likely to be a coin flip as to whether it'll actually be worth enabling on that hardware in games releasing between then and now.

Ray-tracing hits almost as hard as SSAA did upon release, and today we can't just weld multiple GPUs together to deal with it.
 
Shadowarez said:
so if amd's card is 2080ti + the next gen 3xxx will see another jump from 1080ti price to 2080ti price? by this a 3080ti will be $4000+ and a Titan will replace Quadro prices its almost like Nvidia is pushing the gaming products up every gen into pro series pricing, the locked the drivers so people/corps would stop buying 2080ti's instead of Quadros for Servers/Work related task's, im worried well see a $6000 Titan soon, plus lets prey the dont release as many revisions of Titan for ppl who actually buy them,
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People are buying 2080Tis -- assuming Nvidia is selling the number that they planned to, the price is 'correct'.

If they price too high and customers stop buying, they can either eat the lost revenue or lower their prices.


Also, we should continue to note that production prices aren't sitting still either, and competition can only do so much -- and AMD is rarely competitive with Nvidia at the top end.

We can be fairly sure what performance level Nvidia is capable of producing on TSMC 7nm, however, we really have no idea what they'll actually put up for sale.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
This... isn't happening for another year or two, at the earliest, as much as we would like it to and as much as it would prod the industry forward. The technology isn't quite there yet, in terms of hardware per the topic, nor the software, really.

Most likely the architectures that replace Ampere / Big Navi will push the tech down to that price level, and even then it's likely to be a coin flip as to whether it'll actually be worth enabling on that hardware in games releasing between then and now.

Ray-tracing hits almost as hard as SSAA did upon release, and today we can't just weld multiple GPUs together to deal with it.
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An Ampere launch, depending on price, could easily knock a 2060S/2070 down to less than $300, that would be a start.
Unless of course, Ampere redefines price brackets like Turing did.
And that could happen this year.

The only way I see that happening is if AMD comes out with a killer card to force lower prices.
 
Rockenrooster said:
This is EXACTLY my point, the GTX 1660Ti is only about 20-30% faster than my RX580 which is 3 year old card (a refresh of an already 1 year old card at that). The 5600xt is also in the price range but the increase in performance isn't enough (looking for 2x).
You don't seem to get this at all, but that is expected since you're sitting on your 3950x/2080Ti high horse (wish i had a system like yours BTW). Some people want to have some raytracing goodness for less than $300...
The $200-$300 range hasn't got any love except for the 5600xt really. I'm hoping that Ampere will help change that but from looking at recent history I don't think I can count on that from Nvidia. It'll eventually get there but when???
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Wrong. The rtx 2060 is best in that range. It also can do raytracing in 1080p which is what virtually everyone in that price range runs.
 
Shadowarez said:
so if amd's card is 2080ti + the next gen 3xxx will see another jump from 1080ti price to 2080ti price? by this a 3080ti will be $4000+ and a Titan will replace Quadro prices its almost like Nvidia is pushing the gaming products up every gen into pro series pricing, the locked the drivers so people/corps would stop buying 2080ti's instead of Quadros for Servers/Work related task's, im worried well see a $6000 Titan soon, plus lets prey the dont release as many revisions of Titan for ppl who actually buy them,
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Sorry, I couldn't make sense of what you were trying to say in your post, so I decided to look at the build in your sig. It looks like if you had bought a case and PSU which actually made sense for your hardware, you could have bought a 2070S with the money you saved.
 
Thunderdolt said:
Sorry, I couldn't make sense of what you were trying to say in your post, so I decided to look at the build in your sig. It looks like if you had bought a case and PSU which actually made sense for your hardware, you could have bought a 2070S with the money you saved.
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Sorry, but I have to agree. Looks like poster spent out the ass for everything else in their PC but decided to cheap out on the video card for some reason. If their sig is accurate.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Wrong. The rtx 2060 is best in that range. It also can do raytracing in 1080p which is what virtually everyone in that price range runs.
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It can barely do raytracing at 1080p, not to mention that the 5700 is faster for +$20 (if on sale).
I would consider 2060 super to be the minimum, but that's $400
 
I'm hoping there will be a 3000 series entrant that performs somewhere between the 2080S and 2080Ti for no more than $400 (essentially a 2060 Super price-point replacement), so I'm going to guess in the neighborhood of 25-40% faster.

Should be easily attainable, if the rumors about Ampere's advancements ring true.

However, this is nVidia we're discussing...I can totally see them artificially crippling performance in the initial release so that it doesn't inhibit spinning a convincing fable about the need for a slightly higher performing refresh ("Super").
Given that AMD is well behind in Radeon development and performance (until we know how Navi2 is going to perform as well as have adequate retail supply), I'd say that nVidia will continue the yawn-inducing incremental performance gains, just like these recent generations and respective refreshes.
 
Rockenrooster said:
An Ampere launch, depending on price, could easily knock a 2060S/2070 down to less than $300, that would be a start.
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These cards being expensive to produce, their price will likely only fall with an imminent Ampere replacement; as in, fire sale, and then they're gone, so it would be hard to support a claim that they were ever really US$300.

Now, it's quite possible that an Ampere part at that performance level could go for US$300, which would be great!

Rockenrooster said:
Unless of course, Ampere redefines price brackets like Turing did.
And that could happen this year.
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Very much so. Nvidia didn't completely redefine pricing brackets without reason, despite the value arguement generally falling short, and Ampere could go either way, i.e. lower production costs per performance leading to lower prices to move more parts, higher prices because customers are obviously willing to pay them, etc.

Rockenrooster said:
The only way I see that happening is if AMD comes out with a killer card to force lower prices.
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AMD hasn't given us a reason to be truly optimistic about their GPU technology in a good long time, however, it's hard to miss the signs that they're starting to get their act together to push out of their 'price / performance' perception bubble. Better drivers, better coolers, and what appears to be a focus on efficiency are all steps that point to them working toward competing up the product stack. And really, while I'd not predict them competing with Ampere at the top end upon release (as much as I'd prefer the options and competition!), if they can hit the rung below with a decent price / performance bargain, I'd bet that Big Navi's replacement might trade blows with Navi's replacement a year or two down the road.
 
Auer said:
While I dont give a F 'bout Factums rant, Gaming is a bit of a luxury don't ya think?

Definition of luxury

1: a condition of abundance or great ease and comfort : sumptuous environment ived in luxury
2a: something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary one of life's luxuries
b: an indulgence in something that provides pleasure, satisfaction, or ease, had the luxury of rejecting a handful of job offers— Terri Minsky
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Google disagrees with your defition:

luxury
noun

  1. a state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense.
    "he lived a life of luxury"

By your definition, a shitty couch full of bed bugs is a luxury.
 
We’re getting silly now. A luxury is something that brings pleasure but is otherwise unnecessary and in many cases it is also expensive. Is the English lesson over? :)
 
MangoSeed said:
We’re getting silly now. A luxury is something that brings pleasure but is otherwise unnecessary and in many cases it is also expensive. Is the English lesson over? :)
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Exactly! Like heroin or buying latest gen halo GPUs. It's not a problem, it's a luxury. :)

Unfortunately both lead to uncomfortable sit downs with your family.


Back on topic. It is still all rumors and speculation. Once the cards are in the wild then we will know the truth.
 
oh no lol i got lucky on most these parts, none were in the $2000+ for a single piece, the cpu was a solid $1800 but has lasted me for well past its expected life, i tried justifying the other gpus but could not. i was just saying i hope we dont see ampre redefine the Cost of there gpus, i used to get Titans at about the $1100-1300 range for my sytems that required them, but couldnt see $3000+ for the RTX Titan at $2450 usd itd be hard pill to swallow in Cad,
 
Even if we assume gaming itself is a necessity the argument would still go that something like the RTX 2080ti itself is not a requirement of gaming. Max settings are not required for gaming. 4k is not required for gaming.

Really the biggest reason for the so called "shift" in GPU pricing is due to demographics and changing market conditions. Demographics for gamers, and specifically PC gamers, is quite different than 10 or even 20+ years ago. If you started gaming in your teens/college years with basically no disposable income and were able and willing (maybe not wanting) to buy a $200 GPU now that those people are working with much higher disposable income it reasons to stand there is simply more money to go around. Not mention other contributing factors such as how much less spending goes into other components due to stagnating requirements and advances for example with CPUs.

If you look at other industries markets what is the actual price gap between entry level and the highest end products? How large of a price range and segmentation exists? Those cheaper GPUs still exist, it's just their relative standing in the market is not the same. Yes it sucks if you on an emotional level have to have the "max" but if you were able to game on a $200, or $300 or whatever GPU 10 years ago you still can in that price range now.
 
Honestly, I’ve been quite pleased with the performance of my 1080Ti @ 1440p and don’t have any monitor upgrades planned for the near future. That said, now that it’s paired up with a 3900x instead of a 3770k, I want and will be upgrading to a 3000 series mainly because the geek in me wants to see higher than 13% CPU utilization when I’m gaming. RTX being a viable option at my native resolution is also a factor For wanting to upgrade.
 
RamonGTP said:
Honestly, I’ve been quite pleased with the performance of my 1080Ti @ 1440p and don’t have any monitor upgrades planned for the near future. That said, now that it’s paired up with a 3900x instead of a 3770k, I want and will be upgrading to a 3000 series mainly because the geek in me wants to see higher than 13% CPU utilization when I’m gaming. RTX being a viable option at my native resolution is also a factor For wanting to upgrade.
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The 3900x is a massive upgrade for gaming at higher framerates in the 1080ti class performance level. I have one box with a 2500k at 5ghz with a 5700xt, and another box with a 3700x on water with a 2070 and the ryzen box is consistently pulling 30% more avg frames, with an even more signivicant gain in lows, and some games seeing as much at 70% sustained higher framerates. It really makes a substantial difference on a 144hz monitor. While freesync delivers a better experience in general, it just feels so good to chug along at 120 fps maxed out as opposed to 70fps.

I'd say buy a cheaper gpu (like a 5700 instead of a 2080 / 2080 super), and invest in one of the modern cpus if you haven't done so since the sandy bridge era of gaming chips. As far as 4k tho, I don't really game in it other than some couch fare slower paced rpg's so the 2500k media box in the living room handles it just fine.


Regarding the RTX 3xxx speculation, I feel like that we will see a typical 40% bump for a generational architecture, but they will be cramming so much more raytracing and associated hardware that it's going to eat up a lot of the power headroom they will have with the more efficient architecture (vs. amd designs on the gpu from), and that delivering a more customized, varied gpu is going to be the future for Nvidia. I know that most of us on these forums would love for them to just shove as many cores as they can on a single die, max out the memory and call it a day. I know I'd pay for the sheer performance something like that could deliver, but in an ever evolving competetive landscape, Nvidia will continue to integrate their own tech, while watering down the potential of any one form of it.
 
Snowdog said:
I don't remember any DirectX Version ever driving sales.
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I remember when the dx10 effects in Crysis were supposed to be a big upgrade, soon thereafter a little simple text editing enabled all the new particle effects and the like in dx9, turned out they had just artificially tried to differentiate the 9/10 counterparts for marketing ect.
 
oldmanbal said:
I remember when the dx10 effects in Crysis were supposed to be a big upgrade, soon thereafter a little simple text editing enabled all the new particle effects and the like in dx9, turned out they had just artificially tried to differentiate the 9/10 counterparts for marketing ect.
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That's not entirely true. A lot of the DX10 effects did not work flawlessly in DX9 due to limitations in the API. See per-object blur.
 
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