RTX 3xxx performance speculation

Auer

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Ran the Wolfenstein bench this morning, gonna play some over the weekend, $20 on Steam. Very promising. Heading to the store to get me some cheese to go with this fine wine...

Really looking forward to the next gen.

Wolfenstein  Youngblood Screenshot 2020.01.25 - 09.51.57.25.png

Wolfenstein  Youngblood Screenshot 2020.01.25 - 09.52.58.42.png

Wolfenstein  Youngblood Screenshot 2020.01.25 - 09.52.55.05.png
 

IdiotInCharge

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I picked up a few games in the Wolfenstein series -- I may get back to them, but I feel that I've probably lost interest in linear shooters that don't bring any other elements in.

Does look nice, though!
 

noko

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Looks like I need to be corrected, Doom Eternal will not have Raytracing, not sure about DLSS. ID went back what they promised last June:

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...id-software-had-different-priorities-in-mind/

That is a shame since Wolfenstein does it so well, from what I can tell better than any other games for reflections and use of DSLL. Hopefully they will support DLSS but then it would not be needed for the FPS except for low end cards, more for the IQ improvement potential that it has.
 

Snowdog

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Looks like I need to be corrected, Doom Eternal will not have Raytracing, not sure about DLSS. ID went back what they promised last June:

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...id-software-had-different-priorities-in-mind/

That is a shame since Wolfenstein does it so well, from what I can tell better than any other games for reflections and use of DSLL. Hopefully they will support DLSS but then it would not be needed for the FPS except for low end cards, more for the IQ improvement potential that it has.
I would say that is more like it won't have Ray Tracing at launch. They had other priorities first. I would expect there is a chance it would be a free upgrade like it was for Wolf:YB.

If you watch the video, he says they are just about to start looking at it (Ray Tracing) again, at this timestamp:
 

noko

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I would say that is more like it won't have Ray Tracing at launch. They had other priorities first. I would expect there is a chance it would be a free upgrade like it was for Wolf:YB.

If you watch the video, he says they are just about to start looking at it (Ray Tracing) again, at this timestamp:
Looking at, committing and then releasing are three different aspects. Looking to the point for release if they go with it would be some time, like late this year to next (Console release? Waiting for AMD RT solution to develop with?). The development would seem to also have to deal with any AMD RT solution coming (Consoles? Navi2?). ID software rep talked about how they would optimize the game with very smart culling to get the GPU rendering almost exclusively what you would see. That would not be too friendly with what it takes to do reflections, I can see how performance would virtually tank hard with reflections -> Much bigger world with ID Tech 7 engine plus more higher memory taking assets. Still if they did smart culling with reflective surface to moving objects only, with cube map of the environment for the more reflective surfaces (For example: background non moving objects such as buildings are cube mapped and only the explosion/fire/some moving objects get RT, simplified geometry asset model) and for dull ones more limited environment interaction as in character -> maybe a lot they can do to pioneer how to use RT effectively. ID Tech 6 in Wolfenstein does RT rather well with DLSS and I conclude a good win for RTX in general, for Doom Eternal? We don't know at this time, except it won't have it when launch and no promises now that it will.
 

Factum

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Lol you can thank the millennials for that.
No millennials are the ones posting their "fuzzy warm feelings" as facts.
Random forum posters opnions are useless...that is why we have reviewers like Digital Foundry, present their discoveries to us.

Because random forum poster is worthless....such ego in those though.
 

Factum

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I would say that is more like it won't have Ray Tracing at launch. They had other priorities first. I would expect there is a chance it would be a free upgrade like it was for Wolf:YB.

If you watch the video, he says they are just about to start looking at it (Ray Tracing) again, at this timestamp:
Note he stated they had to ushers their developers away from RT...what developers like is the direction gaming will take.
Must be sad for the anti RT(X) crowd...
 

Armenius

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Best RTX usage game I've seen (at least from video). First time I would consider/want a RTX featured card. 2nd play through now on game, I actually love this game due to battle engagements, options and strategies one can take. To me a very underrated title but then I got momentarily bored with RDR2 and started this for the 2nd time. Yes indeed! DLSS not only improved performance but actual quality of the image at the same time -> That is what was expected and it looks like it is very much possible with it -> Great news. Doom Eternal is going to have this as well which should be just as good if not better, maybe a must have feature or close to it for that title, we will see. Ampere I am sure hoping/betting on will improve all of this, developers are more experienced and a break out in using RTX has appeared both in Control and Youngblood. More should follow.


For Enthusiasts, who play the latest new tech games with savagery, RTX or RT (If AMD supports well) maybe one of the key features to look for. I am also wanting and looking for proper next generation monitor support (HDMI 2.1 and DP 2.0). I think I would prefer DP 2.0 more than HDMI2.1 if it only comes with one due to increase ability as long as there are suitable/workable adaptors for HDMI 2.1 for current high end and next gen HDTV's.

edit: Corrected DLSS
Too bad it had to be implemented in a shitty game.
 

Furious_Styles

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No millennials are the ones posting their "fuzzy warm feelings" as facts.
Random forum posters opnions are useless...that is why we have reviewers like Digital Foundry, present their discoveries to us.

Because random forum poster is worthless....such ego in those though.
Man it's like millennial is the only gen to have idiots in it. Can't wait for you guys to tell us about gen Z.
 

MangoSeed

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Note he stated they had to ushers their developers away from RT...what developers like is the direction gaming will take.
Must be sad for the anti RT(X) crowd...
Yeah developers are hyped. It really is the shiny new toy. Adoption has been great so far and it’ll only get better from here.
 

noko

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Yeah developers are hyped. It really is the shiny new toy. Adoption has been great so far and it’ll only get better from here.
Yes, once AMD supports it properly, it will take off like never before ;). I can see why developers can be hesitant until all the hardware is more known, issues resolved, path to take on Console games which for XBox 1 X will also be PC games while PS5 games may or may not make it to PC. What Wolfenstein finally showed in my opinion is that DLSS can work and work really well, RT can have a subtle but yet overall significant positive impact to gaming. I wished something like that was much earlier in the RTX./Turing life cycle. How compatible will AMD/Microsoft/PS5 version of RT will be with Nvidia? Does Nvidia have another short lived feature like N-Triangles tessellation, ATI TRUFORM, where one game showed its benefits (Once again a Wolfenstein game, Return To Castle Wolfenstein) and that was it and the feature was canned hardware wise from the 8000 series to the 9000 series which had software support and developers just never really took interest.

The good is DLSS does not need RT to work and is a feature that appears to have great potential for IQ and performance -> very cool.
 

Factum

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Man it's like millennial is the only gen to have idiots in it. Can't wait for you guys to tell us about gen Z.
Millenials are a "special" breed"....safe-spaces, trying to silence everyone that doesn't agrees..."gender studies"...
Yes, once AMD supports it properly, it will take off like never before ;). I can see why developers can be hesitant until all the hardware is more known, issues resolved, path to take on Console games which for XBox 1 X will also be PC games while PS5 games may or may not make it to PC. What Wolfenstein finally showed in my opinion is that DLSS can work and work really well, RT can have a subtle but yet overall significant positive impact to gaming. I wished something like that was much earlier in the RTX./Turing life cycle. How compatible will AMD/Microsoft/PS5 version of RT will be with Nvidia? Does Nvidia have another short lived feature like N-Triangles tessellation, ATI TRUFORM, where one game showed its benefits (Once again a Wolfenstein game, Return To Castle Wolfenstein) and that was it and the feature was canned hardware wise from the 8000 series to the 9000 series which had software support and developers just never really took interest.

The good is DLSS does not need RT to work and is a feature that appears to have great potential for IQ and performance -> very cool.
Why do you think RT is an NVIDIA invention...DXR is part of DX12:

It is not going anywhere...and AMD will support DXR on the PC, stop the FUD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_Raytracing
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/directx-raytracing-in-gpu-drivers
https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/02/amd-radeon-gpus-feature-raytracing-via-microsoft-dxr/
 

noko

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Millenials are a "special" breed"....safe-spaces, trying to silence everyone that doesn't agrees..."gender studies"...


Why do you think RT is an NVIDIA invention...DXR is part of DX12:

It is not going anywhere...and AMD will support DXR on the PC, stop the FUD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_Raytracing
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/directx-raytracing-in-gpu-drivers
https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/02/amd-radeon-gpus-feature-raytracing-via-microsoft-dxr/
That is how it suppose to work, will it? If you have a crystal ball great, let us know everything will be problem free using RT. Since AMD does have DXR games labelled as RTX they should be able to get those working or work with the developers for any updates that maybe needed. Just no indication of any of that currently happening.
 

Factum

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That is how it suppose to work, will it? If you have a crystal ball great, let us know everything will be problem free using RT. Since AMD does have DXR games labelled as RTX they should be able to get those working or work with the developers for any updates that maybe needed. Just no indication of any of that currently happening.
You just have to FUD don't you?
RTX must really have angered you?

What part of DirectX Raytraycing (DXR) is to complicated for you to understand to that degree you need to post FUD again and again?
 

Factum

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RT will happen regardless if AMD is on board or not. They will, of course, when it gets to the point that not having the capability will impact sales.

I'm already there, no way I would buy a non RT card. I enjoy RTX and DLSS.
I think it has dawned on camp Red that AMD is going RT too...so they have to change their "stance" now.
Gone is "Raytracing sucks!!!"
But since they need to be angry at NVIDIA...I figure we have entered the "But what about compatability?!!!"-age now.
Funny how the most vocal of them...are the most technical ignorant off them...kinda funny in a sad way.
 

Furious_Styles

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Millenials are a "special" breed"....safe-spaces, trying to silence everyone that doesn't agrees..."gender studies"...


Why do you think RT is an NVIDIA invention...DXR is part of DX12:

It is not going anywhere...and AMD will support DXR on the PC, stop the FUD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_Raytracing
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/directx-raytracing-in-gpu-drivers
https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/02/amd-radeon-gpus-feature-raytracing-via-microsoft-dxr/
Tell me more!
 

Factum

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And it is not like Microsoft and NVIDIA made this is secret from AMD:
https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/116354-amd-nvidia-working-closely-microsoft-dxr-api/

AMD collaboration

HEXUS received an email bulletin from AMD about its own work on Microsoft's DirectX Raytracing API. It said that it was "closely collaborating with Microsoft," on the future of the API. More specifically it is helping to "define, refine and support the future of DirectX12 and ray tracing". Without mentioning any of its own hardware/software technologies, AMD said that it "remains at the forefront of new programming model and application programming interface (API) innovation based on a forward-looking, system-level foundation for graphics programming." AMD hinted that it would have more to share about PC-based ray tracing techniques in the future
Even though that "argument" seems to be needed for some people...."Evil Microsoft and NVIDIA being BAD to AMD!!!"
 

Furious_Styles

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Factum

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Eh who cares about dumb fanboys? Truth is that rtx and dx12 have both been pretty lackluster releases. Hopefully this second gen is much better.
You missed the DirectX 10 release?
You missed the DirectX 12 release?

DXR (as the API is called, not RTX) has had a much better launch than those....

Now say after me:

D

X

R

DirectX Raytracing.

Not rocket science...
 

Furious_Styles

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You missed the DirectX 10 release?
You missed the DirectX 12 release?

DXR (as the API is called, not RTX) has had a much better launch than those....

Now say after me:

D

X

R

DirectX Raytracing.

Not rocket science...
I'm one of those idiot millienials, I'm not getting it.
 

zamardii12

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I currently own a 1080Ti and 2080Ti is about 25-30% faster.
I think Nvidia got away with lackluster improvement by adding new tech (Ray Tracing, DLSS, etc).
But next year I believe there won't be any significant new tech. So my guess is that 3080Ti will be about 40-50% faster than 2080Ti. At least.
I'm almost definitely upgrading to 3080Ti.

What do you guys predict?
I predict the 30xx series will be disappointing and overpriced. The 2080ti is insanely powerful even compared to the 1080ti and 2080 I used to have. Good thing is that it may lower the price for the 2080ti but I doubt by much.
 

Dayaks

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That is how it suppose to work, will it? If you have a crystal ball great, let us know everything will be problem free using RT. Since AMD does have DXR games labelled as RTX they should be able to get those working or work with the developers for any updates that maybe needed. Just no indication of any of that currently happening.
I think they need AMD cards with RT hardware to actually give it a shot.

My understanding is while RTX does use Microsoft’s DXR for RT the games will need to be optimized for AMD hardware as well.

If I had to guess - AMD isn’t really a high end option for me for at least 3-5 years. They need a card that is significantly faster than a 2080ti (which I have) and a proven history with actually implementing/supporting RT. They have a piss poor history IMO on the software side of things.
 

Snowdog

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I currently own a 1080Ti and 2080Ti is about 25-30% faster.
I think Nvidia got away with lackluster improvement by adding new tech (Ray Tracing, DLSS, etc).
But next year I believe there won't be any significant new tech. So my guess is that 3080Ti will be about 40-50% faster than 2080Ti. At least.
I'm almost definitely upgrading to 3080Ti.

What do you guys predict?

30% isn't lackluster. In fact, it about average/typical for the last decade. It's just that Pascal was huge jump that spoiled everyone, and they set that as normal expectation.

As I said before. I expect about 30%.
 

Dayaks

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30% isn't lackluster. In fact, it about average/typical for the last decade. It's just that Pascal was huge jump that spoiled everyone, and they set that as normal expectation.

As I said before. I expect about 30%.
I feel like a broken record but I would use the range 25-45%, mostly dependent in Hz you are aiming for. My monitor is 60Hz so I am at the higher end of the range.
 

Snowdog

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I feel like a broken record but I would use the range 25-45%, mostly dependent in Hz you are aiming for. My monitor is 60Hz so I am at the higher end of the range.
What does your monitor refresh have to do with how much generational performance uplift NVidia delivers?

You do know they test either on high refresh monitors or turn off Vsync.
 

Dayaks

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What does your monitor refresh have to do with how much generational performance uplift NVidia delivers?

You do know they test either on high refresh monitors or turn off Vsync.
I was implying I aim for low Hz because of my monitor; at low Hz you’re closer to 45% increase over a 1080ti with a 2080ti.

A lot of reviews had the 1080 at ~60Hz and by the time they got to the 2080 it was at 110+Hz and cpu constrained. That’s where the 25% number is generally true over a 1080ti.

So you have to look at your specific use case for what to expect.
 

Snowdog

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I was implying I aim for low Hz because of my monitor; at low Hz you’re closer to 45% increase over a 1080ti with a 2080ti.

A lot of reviews had the 1080 at ~60Hz and by the time they got to the 2080 it was at 110+Hz and cpu constrained. That’s where the 25% number is generally true over a 1080ti.

So you have to look at your specific use case for what to expect.
You may have made up your own personal metric, but that isn't how it will be tested, nor viewed by the wider world.

It will be tested with ucapped frame-rates, pretty much like it has been since the beginning of GPU testing.

This is what everyone (but you) will base percentage uplift on.
 

Dayaks

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You may have made up your own personal metric, but that isn't how it will be tested, nor viewed by the wider world.

It will be tested with ucapped frame-rates, pretty much like it has been since the beginning of GPU testing.

This is what everyone (but you) will base percentage uplift on.
I never said anything about capping frames, but targeted fps; which you adjust settings for, and that affects your % uplift.

Replace targeted fps loosely with resolution, you’ll see a much higher uplift at 4k rather than 2560x1440 is all I was saying.
 
Last edited:

Snowdog

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I never said anything about capping frames, but targeted fps; which you adjust settings for, and that affects your % uplift.

Replace targeted fps loosely with resolution, you’ll see a much higher uplift at 4k rather than 2560x1440 is all I was saying.
Then why did you say at 4K, rather than get off into the weeds with Hz?
 
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