Richard Stallman Says Windows Is Malware

crusty_juggler said:
Funny how Linux people constantly deride Windows as an NSA sponsored plot to deliver viruses to your desktop while praising the malware infested data mining platform known as Android.
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And with that this thread ends.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Funny how Linux people constantly deride Windows as an NSA sponsored plot to deliver viruses to your desktop while praising the malware infested data mining platform known as Android.
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Funny how your trolly hyperbole adds little to discussions in a forum like this one.
 
dandragonrage said:
Joe Luddite wouldn't WANT to do such a thing in the first place. Don't be ridiculous.
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Probably. Because that'd mean he'd have to find a brain-damaged five year old to go install the stuff for him.
 
hardcase said:
I guess that if you get to use your own definition for malware, the potential candidates can be as many or few as you'd like.
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It's pretty simple, really. Malware is something that does something on it's own that you don't want it to do. If you don't understand that basic premise, read on.

Consider these: 1. ask people if a program should be installed to run at all times whether you need it to or not. This was one of the key problems initially; software like AOL or MS Office that dominated a computer and it's resources simply so the software would be considered to load instantly when in reality it was already running all the time. 2. Or how about if your computer should hide information it collects about your behavior such as web browsing or media viewing, so that when you want to delete it, it does not, but keeps it stored for someone else to access that information, but not you? 3. Or more simply, ask anyone; do you want your computer sending back information about what you do to microsoft (or any other company)? I think you know the answer, unless the problem is that their software stopped working, then you will need them to figure out why: BECAUSE YOU PAID FOR A PRODUCT AND IT SHOULD WORK CORRECTLY, do what the box it came in says it will do. We all have a sh!tload of shelfware from days past that didn't do what it was described to do by the manufacturer, interfered with other software to the point of freezing up the whole system, or being so difficult to figure out how to work with that it was easier to do stuff by hand than get the program to work (though, years ago, just getting software to work without freezing up became more of a challenge than the game itself, and once I got the thing to work, I was no longer interested in the game).
 
He is right. Best thing to do is just go back to the stone age. No tin foil there.
 
dandragonrage said:
It's actually great for that and chances are Grandma will be just as terrible at using Windows. You wouldn't want her to set it up, but you wouldn't have her set up Windows, either, would you?

And chances are that her Linux machine won't be affected by that .scr file in a spam mail she tried to open without even knowing that she was even attempting to open a file at all.

It's actually the intermediate users and the power users who just don't want to be bothered using something that does take more effort to set up for their more advanced needs/desires.
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For 2 weeks I tried to install mint on a spare laptop I had lying around. With a bunch of support from here, a coworker at work who works with Linux almost daily no one could get it running on the laptop. Windows 8 installed in 10 minutes with minimal user input.

Until Linux distros work that easy it will never be a mainstream OS for the masses. Just plain and simple.
 
Climber said:
For 2 weeks I tried to install mint on a spare laptop I had lying around. With a bunch of support from here, a coworker at work who works with Linux almost daily no one could get it running on the laptop. Windows 8 installed in 10 minutes with minimal user input.

Until Linux distros work that easy it will never be a mainstream OS for the masses. Just plain and simple.
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It can absolutely be a mainstream OS because most people would never expect an OS installation to be easy. Almost nobody would claim that Linux would work for everyone. Your case there is actually very rare.

If someone like me were to do the install - as I would do for Windows - it would then work fine for most people.
 
thebufenator said:
Maybe if products that were free/open source didn't suck so much, we'd use them more.
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Except that you DO use them. Far more than you think. 90% of web infrastructure is built on top of GNU/Linux components. OpenSSL, HTTP, HTML, ECMAScript and endless others that make the world run are open and thriving because of "tin foil" ideas promoted by this man.

In the 80s+90s everyone was busy trying to make their own proprietary technologies, and it made for a horrible experience for everyone involved (Netscape vs IE). Open source showed that if you have a good democratic standard that everyone can contribute to, things can actually work much much better.

The freedom provided by open source software is what's allowed any joe schmoe to build their own tech something. I highly doubt facebook would've taken off if mark zuckerberg had had to pay high licensing fees for PHP, mysql, apache etc.


DocFaustus said:
As for the 'end users aren't intelligent' enough... No. Linux is unpopular and unusable by design. It could very easily accommodate most average user's needs. The community doesn't want normal people using it. They prefer to keep anyone even close to normal away from their empire so they can wallow in their own crapulence. Linux forums are full of cheeto-munching basement-dwelling assholes that proudly show off their introverted ways as a badge of honor. The minute you ask a help question that identifies yourself as "not one of them" it becomes a race to see what one of them can look more pathetic than the Comic-book Guy from the Simpsons.
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This is not true. I don't doubt there are A-holes out there, as there are in every part of life. This entire planet is nothing but arrogant shrimpdicks, what's your point? As other have said there can be some issues with newer hardware, but on the whole the thing runs really well and the community is great. I've dualbooted a macbook pro with Linux Mint, and though there are some minor issues (trackpad not as responsive, retina display issues) it does work right out of the box. Or USB stick.
 
Yep I'm going to call it that too. The guy is an "activist" I have problems even with windows evangelists - and I like the OS!


The problem here is the guy is bending meanings by splitting hairs and then acting on the words the he chooses. I have seen no one point to an EULA and say something is ethical only that they have the right to do it.




This guy's new wording in his decades long fight in order to get Linux's name changed works against him and anything he has to say. The way he says it now makes it seem as if he created Linux.


Lastly, I'll admit that I might not have enough knowledge to make this quip but I'll still say it; with my recent thought that I have no problem with Linux it's self, just the software that interacts with Linux, the lack of documentation and the community (mostly) around it, does that mean I'm mostly mad at him? Too bad he didn't start a free documentation and usability organization?


Bonus: I've heard from a few Linux people that they are tired of a new and growing wave of people that hate anything that isn't absolutely free. They will poo poo on any and everything, vilify it if they can't have it for free and it's source, gratis, beer, the whole thing. People with less contributions upsetting people that have done more than their fair share as they've put it.
 
Climber said:
For 2 weeks I tried to install mint on a spare laptop I had lying around. With a bunch of support from here, a coworker at work who works with Linux almost daily no one could get it running on the laptop. Windows 8 installed in 10 minutes with minimal user input.

Until Linux distros work that easy it will never be a mainstream OS for the masses. Just plain and simple.
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Well, IMHO this is a pretty rare experience with recent Linux distributions.

Sometimes you wind up with some exotic piece of hardware that doesn't play nice with Linux drivers it's almost always the WLAN adapter) but honestly even that hasn't happened to me in some time now.

My last installs where when I did a clean refresh on my desktop. Linux mint popped in my USB stick and installed. 5 minutes and one reboot later I had a fully installed, fully up to date, fully functional desktop with all drivers. I didn't even have to go look for and download any drivers (except for the "we have detected that you have a Geforce GPU, click here to automatically install proprietary nvidia drivers" (paraphrasing) popup.

All the software I use is already installed. Nothing to manually install or download.

Total time spent? 10 minutes or less.

Installing Windows 8 - on the other hand - was a bloody nightmare.
  • Start with Windows 8, because for some odd reason Microsoft refuses to provide 8.1 install media, so I have to install from Windows 8 gold and upgrade.
  • Install Windows 8 from DVD (because for some reason I couldn't get the bloody USB install to work) This required actually installing a DVD because I don't have one.
  • Install Windows 8, including three reboots. 25 minutes later I have an unupdated Windows 8 install with no drivers for anything.
  • Download Nvidia drivers from Nvidia, audio drivers from Creative, and sift through the bloody mess of motherboard drivers on the ASUS webpage to try to figure out which are drivers I need, and which are utilities I don't want.
  • Reboot 3 more times after installing drivers. Still have a device in device manager with a question mark, but at least now I'm no longer at 1024x768.
  • Try to upgrade to Windows 8.1, but it doesn't show in the store. Do some research online, find out it is probably because windows update hasn't installed all updates.
  • A bug prevents Windows update from installing any updates. Do some research. The fix for the bug is in a patch in windows update :rolleyes: Some people online suggest just continually retrying and rebooting will eventually cause the updates to proceed. It does after a very frustrating period of time.
  • Spend 2 hours downloading rebooting and waiting for Windows to finalize Windows Update updates. Windows 8.1 update still not showing up. Waste another hour of my life researching why.
  • Find out that there is an app I can download from Microsoft that will download an image of 8.1 and put it on a USB stick for me so I can force the upgrade. Download is remarkably slow despite my 150Mbit connection. Another hours and 20 minutes later the file is downloaded, but for some reason it fails to write it to the USB stick. No problem, the file is probably cached locally right? Wrong! Have to redownload the bloody thing for another hour and a half (chose the ISO option this time so at least I'll have the file and won't have to download it again.)
  • Go looking for that blank DVD media I remember having somewhere from back a half a decade ago when I last used optical media on a regular basis, so I can burn and install the 8.1 upgrade.
  • Burn and install upgrade. Another 20 minutes of my life and 2 reboots pass.
  • Oh my god. More Windows updates. Another 1 hr and 45 minutes downloading and installing updates ensues, including one part where I thought it failed cause it was stuck at the "don't turn off or restart your computer" screen for 25 minutes with no progress indicator.
  • Finally, a fresh install with all my drivers installed (except for that one fucking mystery device with a question mark).
  • Now I have to go download and install all the software I want, including antivirus, etc. manually.

Total time? All fucking day. Seriously, something like 10 hours of wanting to jab my eyes out with a dull pencil.

Please tell me again how Windows is easier to install?

I think I liked the Linux experience better on this one :p
 
Zarathustra[H];1041628372 said:
Total time? All fucking day. Seriously, something like 10 hours of wanting to jab my eyes out with a dull pencil.

Please tell me again how Windows is easier to install?

I think I liked the Linux experience better on this one :p
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Just think how much faster it'll go next time. Sounds like that was your first experience with Windows 8. It's pretty much the same for everyone using a non-oem image. It's WAY faster the second time though.

Install Windows 8, install Ethernet/wireless drivers. Install the first batch of windows updates. Reboot, go into the store, and install 8.1. Should download and install any of your missing drivers after it's done.
 
Ruoh said:
Just think how much faster it'll go next time. Sounds like that was your first experience with Windows 8. It's pretty much the same for everyone using a non-oem image. It's WAY faster the second time though.

Install Windows 8, install Ethernet/wireless drivers. Install the first batch of windows updates. Reboot, go into the store, and install 8.1. Should download and install any of your missing drivers after it's done.
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Possibly, but still, compared to the Linux Experience below, it still leaves me wanting a bit.

  • Download image (via torrent almost instantly due to thousands of seeders and fast internet connection) and write to USB stick using included tools.
  • Boot from USB stick into a fully working environment with all drivers installed and at full resolution.
  • click install. Answer the standard questions about time zone and which drive to install to.
  • Browse the web on my second monitor while installing. Installer automatically downloads all the latest versions and updates of not just the OS but also all the software during the install.
  • Reboot
  • done

10 minutes or less on my system.

As far as Windows 8.1 goes I actually imaged the drive as soon as I had a clean install with drivers installed so I would NEVER have to go through that nightmare again.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041628418 said:
10 minutes or less on my system.

As far as Windows 8.1 goes I actually imaged the drive as soon as I had a clean install with drivers installed so I would NEVER have to go through that nightmare again.
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Oh, I'm not arguing which takes longer to install, and with full functionality. Just pointing out where you *could* save some serious time and effort. ;)
 
If you want to install windows from a USB stick and have access to a machine already running an OS that uses bootmgr it's simple. (windows since vista)


insert the usb stick and run diskpart.
select the usb stick
clear the drive
create a primary partition
make it active
format it to ntfs
exit
(this is a general overview of how to do it, not the commands make sure you list drives before you select and begin as clean will erase the drive configuration)


From there you can burst your image files to the USB stick and I'll boot and install.
No utility needed, I do this for our PE images all the time


No idea where you'd get windows 8.1 as I don't know where normal customers download it. In the Volume licensing service center they do have 8.1 ISOs and the download speed is always fast even using http.
 
bigstusexy said:
If you want to install windows from a USB stick and have access to a machine already running an OS that uses bootmgr it's simple. (windows since vista)


insert the usb stick and run diskpart.
select the usb stick
clear the drive
create a primary partition
make it active
format it to ntfs
exit
(this is a general overview of how to do it, not the commands make sure you list drives before you select and begin as clean will erase the drive configuration)


From there you can burst your image files to the USB stick and I'll boot and install.
No utility needed, I do this for our PE images all the time


No idea where you'd get windows 8.1 as I don't know where normal customers download it. In the Volume licensing service center they do have 8.1 ISOs and the download speed is always fast even using http.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried this, but for whatever reason the desktop refused to boot from it.

The installing of the optical drive wasn't a huge problem though. I quickly took apart an old USB to IDE external hard drive adapter, and hooked it up to an old IDE DVD drive.

A little annoying to have to do it, but not the end of the world.

The rest of the process drove me absolutely insane though.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041628372 said:
Well, IMHO this is a pretty rare experience with recent Linux distributions.

Sometimes you wind up with some exotic piece of hardware that doesn't play nice with Linux drivers it's almost always the WLAN adapter) but honestly even that hasn't happened to me in some time now.

My last installs where when I did a clean refresh on my desktop. Linux mint popped in my USB stick and installed. 5 minutes and one reboot later I had a fully installed, fully up to date, fully functional desktop with all drivers. I didn't even have to go look for and download any drivers (except for the "we have detected that you have a Geforce GPU, click here to automatically install proprietary nvidia drivers" (paraphrasing) popup.

All the software I use is already installed. Nothing to manually install or download.

Total time spent? 10 minutes or less.

Installing Windows 8 - on the other hand - was a bloody nightmare.
  • Start with Windows 8, because for some odd reason Microsoft refuses to provide 8.1 install media, so I have to install from Windows 8 gold and upgrade.
  • Install Windows 8 from DVD (because for some reason I couldn't get the bloody USB install to work) This required actually installing a DVD because I don't have one.
  • Install Windows 8, including three reboots. 25 minutes later I have an unupdated Windows 8 install with no drivers for anything.
  • Download Nvidia drivers from Nvidia, audio drivers from Creative, and sift through the bloody mess of motherboard drivers on the ASUS webpage to try to figure out which are drivers I need, and which are utilities I don't want.
  • Reboot 3 more times after installing drivers. Still have a device in device manager with a question mark, but at least now I'm no longer at 1024x768.
  • Try to upgrade to Windows 8.1, but it doesn't show in the store. Do some research online, find out it is probably because windows update hasn't installed all updates.
  • A bug prevents Windows update from installing any updates. Do some research. The fix for the bug is in a patch in windows update :rolleyes: Some people online suggest just continually retrying and rebooting will eventually cause the updates to proceed. It does after a very frustrating period of time.
  • Spend 2 hours downloading rebooting and waiting for Windows to finalize Windows Update updates. Windows 8.1 update still not showing up. Waste another hour of my life researching why.
  • Find out that there is an app I can download from Microsoft that will download an image of 8.1 and put it on a USB stick for me so I can force the upgrade. Download is remarkably slow despite my 150Mbit connection. Another hours and 20 minutes later the file is downloaded, but for some reason it fails to write it to the USB stick. No problem, the file is probably cached locally right? Wrong! Have to redownload the bloody thing for another hour and a half (chose the ISO option this time so at least I'll have the file and won't have to download it again.)
  • Go looking for that blank DVD media I remember having somewhere from back a half a decade ago when I last used optical media on a regular basis, so I can burn and install the 8.1 upgrade.
  • Burn and install upgrade. Another 20 minutes of my life and 2 reboots pass.
  • Oh my god. More Windows updates. Another 1 hr and 45 minutes downloading and installing updates ensues, including one part where I thought it failed cause it was stuck at the "don't turn off or restart your computer" screen for 25 minutes with no progress indicator.
  • Finally, a fresh install with all my drivers installed (except for that one fucking mystery device with a question mark).
  • Now I have to go download and install all the software I want, including antivirus, etc. manually.

Total time? All fucking day. Seriously, something like 10 hours of wanting to jab my eyes out with a dull pencil.

Please tell me again how Windows is easier to install?

I think I liked the Linux experience better on this one :p
Click to expand...

You know, I have been engineering systems with Linux for years, and only now do I fully realize and appreciate how painless it is to set up. New users are going to struggle at first, but once you know the Linux install process it really does go pretty quickly. In an afternoon, one can endeavor to build out one Windows host from scratch, or an entire high availability farm of Linux hosts. Though Microsoft has made great leaps and bounds in automation through their Powershell product, they will never hold a candle to Linux in automated deployments.

Outside of a few special niche cases (Active Directory, MS Exchange), Microsoft servers are training wheels - a "big purple crayon" approach to enterprise IT.
 
The complexity of OS installation is practically a non-issue since it only matters to users who already have the technical expertise to deal with it. Everyone else gets their OS preinstalled on whatever laptop and/or desktop they just bought.

Notice how NO ONE bitches (loudly) about how hard it is to install alternative Android builds on their smartphone?
 
jroe52 said:
you guys are all aholes. This post was penned on paper and sent to kyle and steve to post on my behalf by drone.
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They are stupid too, mostly. Really, really stupid. It's annoying to read.

Richard Stallman has contributed far more good to the world than anyone trying to make themselves feel good about their Windows purchase in this forum.
 
MisterHipster said:
Richard Stallman has contributed far more good to the world than anyone trying to make themselves feel good about their Windows purchase in this forum.
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Never have understood the logic behind this type of statement, at least when it comes to experienced Windows users. When I buy Windows based hardware or hardware for Windows I've done enough research and know enough about Windows I know what to expect. I can't think of much Windows related in many years that didn't work according to or exceeding expectations barring hardware issues in which case I return or exchange the item.
 
Looking past the clickbait headline that was taken out of context (he didn't literally say Windows is malware), a few things:

Windows hasn't historically been malware but Windows 10 will be more spyware than any previous version.

Cortana is not your friend. In fairness, neither are Siri or Google Now
 
odditory said:
Cortana is not your friend. In fairness, neither are Siri or Google Now
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Yet everyone acts like it's all or nothing.

You don't have to use Cortana, Siri or Now.

And even in the case of Android, you can go without using Google services entirely, quite easily. No "spyware" in AOSP.

On my Win8 tablet, I COULD NOT use it without logging into or creating a Windows Live/Hotmail account.
 
Richard Stallman....ahahahahaha.
Windows malware? Really? What about your own disgusting, viral creation known as GPL? That is arguably even more destructive to the industry than Windows.
Fuck off neckbeard.
 
schoolslave said:
Richard Stallman....ahahahahaha.
Windows malware? Really? What about your own disgusting, viral creation known as GPL? That is arguably even more destructive to the industry than Windows.
Fuck off neckbeard.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that GPL code is never going to do anybody any good, ever, is it?
 
Bowman15 said:
LOL that's like saying its the same as Unix or IOS. So different its not worth debating.
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You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about.

Fact: Android runs on the Linux Kernel.

Fact: Android is open source.

Fact: 80% of the smartphone market devices sold are Android devices.

Fact: Android *is* the most widely used OS in the world now.

And no, nothing in my statement made any claim that it is the same as Unix or iOS. So it is not "like saying" it no matter how much you wish to imagine such rubbish.
 
techrat said:
Fact: Android *is* the most widely used OS in the world now.
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For phones and tablets of course. However Windows 8.x/10 has been widely criticized for adding phone and tablet capabilities to Windows which those critics see as inappropriate.
 
heatlesssun said:
For phones and tablets of course. However Windows 8.x/10 has been widely criticized for adding phone and tablet capabilities to Windows which those critics see as inappropriate.
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Phones are great.

Tablets are great.

Computers are great.

They are not the same thing though, and trying to combine them is a bad idea.

What makes for a successful phone/tablet interface in all likelihood will make for a disastrous desktop/laptop interface.

Microsoft should have stuck to having a separate phone/tablet interface like everyone else.

But no, they got greedy, and tried to force metro down the throats of their install-base so that people would already be familiar with it when they went out to buy their next tablet and buy "what they know".

Kind of shitty.

They should have learned from the revolt Ubuntu had when they went Unity, which fragmented Ubuntu and spawned any number of Ubuntu derivatives with real desktop interfaces.
 
techrat said:
You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about.

Fact: Android runs on the Linux Kernel.

Fact: Android is open source.

Fact: 80% of the smartphone market devices sold are Android devices.

Fact: Android *is* the most widely used OS in the world now.

And no, nothing in my statement made any claim that it is the same as Unix or iOS. So it is not "like saying" it no matter how much you wish to imagine such rubbish.
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LOL...the only part that is true is the kernel. Try running android apps in Linux or visa versa. Google actually mad it usable. The only thing in common is the underlying nix part. Fact, I was only referring to the desktop situation the dead skin eating neckbeard was talking about. Nobody connects Linux to Android except basement dwellers. Fact, most people know MS, Apple and Android. Ask them about Linux and you get blank stares. Fact, Linux is only good for under the hood stuff. Good job making a useless point.
 
BakedA|aska said:
Yeah, that GPL code is never going to do anybody any good, ever, is it?
Click to expand...

As a software developer the GPL is a gigantic pain in the ass. For example, if the company you are working for is trying to contribute to the OSS community you have to hire a ton of "copyright" lawyers to make sure you are not unintentionally mixing GPL with proprietary/non-GPL code. Was that the intent? Every time I want to use a piece of GPL code it's gotta go through 10 rounds of lawyer and "expert" reviews, even for internal use. At that point, it's easier to just re-implement or fork over the cash for another company's proprietary solution.
So how helpful is the GPL really? LGPL is a step in the right direction, but still too restrictive. Free should mean free, open should mean open, and NOT virulent copyleft infestation.

(also not sure what you mean by "that" GPL code, the GPL is a license, there's a shear infinite number of "code" that is GPL)
 
Zarathustra[H];1041629703 said:
Microsoft should have stuck to having a separate phone/tablet interface like everyone else.
Click to expand...

There is a market for hybrid/convertible/2 in 1 devices considering the sheer number of them now there must be. And look at the demise of Windows RT and Surface RT devices and its replacement from Microsoft is unsurprisingly a Win32 compatible hybrid tablet.

Sure things should have been done differently with Windows 8.x from the desktop perspective. Windows 10 attempts to fix them and we'll see soon enough how successful Windows 10 in doing so. But with tens of millions of hybrid/convertible/2 in 1 devices in the market now, devices people bought because they can indeed function as desktops/laptops and tablets which Microsoft's flagship Surface line now having some success based on the idea, there's no going back from the idea at this time.
 
Bowman15 said:
LOL...the only part that is true is the kernel. Try running android apps in Linux or visa versa. Google actually mad it usable. The only thing in common is the underlying nix part. Fact, I was only referring to the desktop situation the dead skin eating neckbeard was talking about. Nobody connects Linux to Android except basement dwellers. Fact, most people know MS, Apple and Android. Ask them about Linux and you get blank stares. Fact, Linux is only good for under the hood stuff. Good job making a useless point.
Click to expand...

I run Android apps on my Linux laptop all the time. It's called ARC.

You sure like to revel in your ignorance.
 
heatlesssun said:
Android apps can also run on Windows and OS X.
Click to expand...

Of course, though, I have found bluestacks to be far from perfect on Windows. Never tried Linux or OSX.

I wonder if they function better at all, based on the similarity of the systems.
 
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