Received my 3008WFP today.

[Skyblue]

spoke to dell yesterday... getting another new monitor... the tech support manager wants me to email photos of the latest one to him.. he was acting like he'd never heard of this problem before. (Which is remotely possible as it's the Asia-Pacific branch tho somewhat unlikely as there are even threads with photos in the dell forums!).
He also said that if i was to keep one and a model came out later that fixed the backlight bleed on it i'd be entitled to an exchange. Should probably get that in writing...

Ye, and written in blood too.

Incidentially, still no 3008 in Denmark.

 

[videomasterz]

if noone saw this yet, they compare the DELL 3008 with the NEC 30" input lag with a picture at the way bottom.

http://nec3090wqxi-test.blogspot.com/

 

[cascaman]

no 3008 in Spain yet...

 

[EDUBUDAN]

Mr. Videomasterz:

How independent do you think is the review you mention ?

It has been written by "Albovin" a long known guy (to all the people in this thread) who since day one has dedicated his whole existence to blame the Dell 3008WFP.

Don´t take me wrong; he is a VERY intelligent person and has done very detailed and useful reviews about Dell 2408WFP and others LCD monitors.

But he has created a useless polemic in Prad website (Germany) about Dell (tiny) defects in video interpolation.

One thing is clear the information he publish of the 3008WFP is INDIRECT (from behardware.com and Prad) he has not a Dell 3008 in front of his eyes ,

And that´s exactly the problem: in video mode 1080p the Dell has a tiny overscan problem, but using DVI and Graphics mode and adjusting your Blu ray player to DVI output you don´t see any kind of picture cropping.

Read this review: you don´t know if your reading an opinion or a NEC brochure !!! He is sooo in love with his NEC that he has lost his objectivity.

According to www.tftcentral.co.uk the Dell 3008 and NEC 3090 BOTH have THE SAME LM300WQ5 S-IPS panel,

How do you know the NEC has a "more advanced" H-IPS ? Simply seeing the pixels with a magnifying glass ?

Just see this old Hitachi 2004 chart and under different marketing names S-IPS technology is evolving to the pixel shape you show:


http://www.hitachi-displays.com/ICSFiles/afieldfile/2007/01/22/Evolution_of_IPS_LCDW540.jpg


By the way Albovin I trust in you , the 3090 NEC sure is an excellent, (perhaps the best) product ... but your love for it is misleading .


EB

 

[videomasterz]

Edubudan,

you made alot of good points, if the graph about input lag is true, just pointing out that dell has worse input lag than the NEC 30".

Thanks for the information about both monitors using the same display panel and I'll be sure not to fully believe all reviews I read

 

[albovin]

Mr. Videomasterz:

How independent do you think is the review you mention ?

It has been written by "Albovin" a long known guy (to all the people in this thread) who since day one has dedicated his whole existence to blame the Dell 3008WFP.

Don´t take me wrong; he is a VERY intelligent person and has done very detailed and useful reviews about Dell 2408WFP and others LCD monitors.

But he has created a useless polemic in Prad website (Germany) about Dell (tiny) defects in video interpolation.

One thing is clear the information he publish of the 3008WFP is INDIRECT (from behardware.com and Prad) he has not a Dell 3008 in front of his eyes ,

And that´s exactly the problem: in video mode 1080p the Dell has a tiny overscan problem, but using DVI and Graphics mode and adjusting your Blu ray player to DVI output you don´t see any kind of picture cropping.

Read this review: you don´t know if your reading an opinion or a NEC brochure !!! He is sooo in love with his NEC that he has lost his objectivity.

According to www.tftcentral.co.uk the Dell 3008 and NEC 3090 BOTH have THE SAME LM300WQ5 S-IPS panel,

How do you know the NEC has a "more advanced" H-IPS ? Simply seeing the pixels with a magnifying glass ?

Just see this old Hitachi 2004 chart and under different marketing names S-IPS technology is evolving to the pixel shape you show:


http://www.hitachi-displays.com/ICSFiles/afieldfile/2007/01/22/Evolution_of_IPS_LCDW540.jpg


By the way Albovin I trust in you , the 3090 NEC sure is an excellent, (perhaps the best) product ... but your love for it is misleading .

EB

Thank you for good words about my hard work.
It seems to me though that you are mixing up different things that leads to to the wrong impression in general.

Step by step.

How independent do you think is the review you mention ?

Absolutely independent. I am not affiliated with anything. I just keep an eye on monitors and share some information from time to time.

It has been written by "Albovin"

Yes.

a long known guy (to all the people in this thread)

Yes.

who since day one has dedicated his whole existence to blame the Dell 3008WFP

No. See below.

he has created a useless polemic in Prad website (Germany) about Dell (tiny) defects in video interpolation.

Wrong.
That was not a polemic.
I pointed out an obvious mistake in Prad review of the Dell 3008.
The reviewer neglected to check properly the quality of video from different inputs and wrote that everything was OK.
That wasn't tiny defect - a good portion of a scene is lost (HDMI). That was typical overscan issue. BenQ had to release a firmware update for its 241W to get rid of this problem.
From the thorough test of the Dell 2408 we know that 2 DVI are enough to provide quality video connection while HDMI suffers from overscan/cropping and analog inputs (component, composite and S-video) suffer from both overscan/cropping and distortion.
Most probably 3008 video inputs performance is the same.
I have not tested the Dell 3008. I base my estimation on the documents provided by Prad and reasonable similarity of 2408.
So I blame Prad review much more than the monitor.

Although there is no indication that HDMI, Component, Composite and S-video inputs work properly on the Dell 3008, remaining 2 DVI look pretty much useful.
There is a dfference between 2408 and 3008 in this area though.
2408 allows to use HDMI for PC connection leaving 2(!) more digital inputs for whatever you prefer. In case of 3008 the use of HDMI for PC is questionable due to excessive resoluton.
I have never said that the Dell 3008 is a bad monitor.
It's a mid-level 30" monitor, very close to universal - still very rare in the market.

Read this review: you don´t know if your reading an opinion or a NEC brochure !!!

1. I am not able to compete with professional reviews. But. This is not just an opinion. This review is NOT limited to descriptive adjectives only.
There are a lot of facts, instrumental measurements, photo and video illustrations - so that you do not have to rely on my "opinion". In some areas my subjective view is added - I cannot "measure" interpolation quality or ghosting - it's subjective.
2. I clearly pointed out areas where the NEC 3090WQXi is not as good as 2490 and where it is better. What's a problem?

He is sooo in love with his NEC that he has lost his objectivity.

Yes, I like my NEC. But my NEC is 2490, not 3090.
So 3090 was compared with the best monitor in the market - that's a tough test. And the test illustrated that 3090 panel quality is still little behind the best example available. It seems objective to me.

According to www.tftcentral.co.uk the Dell 3008 and NEC 3090 BOTH have THE SAME LM300WQ5 S-IPS panel,

I never encourage people to make such conclusions "SAME PANEL!!!"
basing on sources like that. They give only rough approximation to the reality.
If you mean "both monitors have the same image quality" - it does not make sense. Image quality depends on the panel AND the rest of the monitor.
If you mean " both panels have the same main index" - yes, they may or may not (Who does entries in this search engines? People reading internet...) have same main index BUT they may have different extentions.
This is a simple exercise for you.
Look at this picture. Left: NEC 2690WUXi. Right: Planar PX2611W.
Obviously picture quality is different.
Now try to use a panel search, etc. to find out if they have "same panel".

One thing is clear the information he publish of the 3008WFP is INDIRECT (from behardware.com and Prad) he has not a Dell 3008 in front of his eyes.

No, it's not clear. It's WRITTEN in the test that I took behardware (les numeriques - same source) measurements for comparison (they use the same hardware and software).
I have never said that I tested 3008. For a brief comparison I needed some information.
It's available. Overscan documented by Prad. Some measurements published by behardware/les numeriques, the rest provided by manufacturer.
What's a problem?

How do you know the NEC has a "more advanced" H-IPS ? Simply seeing the pixels with a magnifying glass ?

People are given eyes to see.
Don't you see the difference between Apple panel (Left) and H-IPS?

The NEC 3090 has the same pixel layout as H-IPS.

Same for the NEC 2490.
Now let's fly to Japan (Thank you, n0xif)

By the way Albovin I trust in you , the 3090 NEC sure is an excellent, (perhaps the best) product ... but your love for it is misleading.

Thank you for your trust, but as it can be seen from this post - you just misleading yourself.
There is no love
The NEC 3090WQXI is the best of 30" but not the best of all.
That's why I personally stay with my 2490 until 3090 is improved to it's level or anythig else comes up.

P.S. #1 It's not easy to wright the answer if you change your post all the time.
P.S. #2 Your putting words I have not said in my mouth misleads not only yourself. See post below. videomasterz ....same panel...will not fully believe....
Is it about my review?
Have I ever mentioned anything about the Dell 3008 panel ???

 

[EDUBUDAN]

I appreciate the time you use to answer my modest opinions I will try to clarify my point of view and sign the peace with you:


NEC vs DELL or Godzilla vs KingKong:



First of all sorry for my rapid changes in my last post, I was changing it because I was trying (on line) to find information of what exactly is a H-IPS and found contradictory information:

• Some sources saying NEC made the H-IPS panels (really ???)
• Other saying that´s just a small improvement of classic S-IPS with a lot of NEC marketing hype behind.

The link in NEC Japan you post perhaps has an implicit answer: if total worldwide production of the 3090WUXi is a ridiculous 2000 units/year I wonder if such a tiny market is enough for a LG custom made panel "done only for NEC".


Even NEC official brochure is confusing saying just that the panel is an "active matrix IPS" (see link below), I went dizzy with the marketing logos.

http://www.necdisplay.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/LCD3090WQXi%20Brochure_0608.pdf

Reviewers vs Real Users:

The french (Be Hardware) review of the Dell is very negative (specially when really trash products has been aclaimed in this website) and says a lot of stupid things like "out of the box colors are bad" "and you have to take 5 minutes or your precious time to calibrate the damn thing" and focus on input lag (gamer point of view).

My advice: take Be Hardware data and strong biased reviews with gloves.

PRAD opinion is extremely positive, (I would say enthusiastic) and yes in the week test probably they didn´t even notice the overscan issue in video. They were marvelled by the Dell.They are a MUCH more serious source not only in my opinion.

For me a 30" monitor is for an user focused in a extremely big high resolution screen connected to a dual link DVI output NOT an HD television.

For graphics and photo both the NEC and the Dell are excelent.

Of course even if Dell, NEC and LG shares the same panel (quite probably) different electronics could create subtle image differences.

Living with it (not a week), I think I have MORE authority to say that the Dell is simply awesome in color and definition: connected to my just received MacBook Pro easily you can see an improvement from an old Apple Cinema Display 30" (first generation LG panel) or even a modern S-PVA display like the 2707WFP.


Dell real drama is an undetermined number of defective units with backlight bleed probably caused by a manufacturing defect (see my first post on page 14).


Overscan issue or HDMI inmadurity ?:

In my opinion the HDMI interface has not been completely well implemented in ANY computer monitor: it was designed for plasmas and the like, perhaps in a smaller 24" screen a 1920x1080 picture is coherent,close to 1920x1200

But a 30" mamooth is a sea of pixels to fill !!!

But if you are a video purist, a dot by dot image with ZERO interpolation is always the purest just set the NEC or DELL 30" in DVI in 1:1 mode and you can have a virtual 24" model for a pure pixel to pixel video rendering.


Why exactly you don´t like LED ?

You said in your NEC review that Samsung XL30 is still an old S-PVA boat with a nuclear reactor inside.

Let me share something:

As I said I finally received my new MacBook Pro, is a beautiful custom made 17" Hi Resolution with the new LED backlight, (probably made also by Samsung) The additional cost is just $ 100.

This screen is a whole new experience: a very high dpi density (imagine a Blackberry Pearl screen of 17 inches !!!) and a close to perfect black specially for a notebook screen.

LED backlight could be the final answer for LCD screens when prices come way down.


Regards and "PEACE" for all !!!!

EB

 

[vorpel]

I've got a Dell 3007HC and absolutely love it. I want/need 1 more 30" monitor however I need to have a minimum of 2 computer inputs so a 2nd 3007HC won't work for me.

Are the 3008 Dell monitors worse than the 3007HC?

Also - does anyone know if Gateway ever got their 30" monitor issues worked out?

Thanks!

 

[pc1x1]

Anyone have a good contact that does discounts in dell small business?

 

[cascaman]

All 30" and 27" are retired in Spanish web... What happens???

 

[EDUBUDAN]

Cascaman:

Probably Dell is running out of stock of the 2707WFP.

The new 27" called 2709W is (in my opinion) a step backwards, a cheap looking "boxy" plastic construction unit, but with better connectivity and HDMI.

Gone are all the luxury details.

Only gimmick is a row of hidden touch screen controls with luminiscent indications.


See this:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=2709CC4#Overview

The Samsung S-PVA panel inside is exactly the same that in the 2707WFP (and by the way the same that uses the Samsung 275T).

Regards.-

EB

 

[Avareyne]

Anyone have a good contact that does discounts in dell small business?

The Dell business discounts are REALLY good, it has brought some monitors into an affordable range for me (the 27" Dell, the 26" Planar, they have Samsungs and NEC too). If you can find someone then go with it. Dell warranties are better through premier.

Cascaman:

Probably Dell is running out of stock of the 2707WFP.

The new 27" called 2709W is (in my opinion) a step backwards, a cheap looking "boxy" plastic construction unit, but with better connectivity and HDMI.

Gone are all the luxury details.

Only gimmick is a row of hidden touch screen controls with luminiscent indications.


See this:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=2709CC4#Overview

The Samsung S-PVA panel inside is exactly the same that in the 2707WFP (and by the way the same that uses the Samsung 275T).

Regards.-

EB

How is the input lag for the 27" monitors? Better than the 24"?

 

[cascaman]

EDUBUDAN: But there is no 3008, there is no 3007, there is no 2707, and there is no 2709.

Run out of stock in 4 models? Something extrange is happening here.

3008 has come back to many countries... but not in Spain. 3007 was not retired in any other country. Retired in Spain. 2709 is being sold in many countries. Never was in Spain. And 2707 also retired....

I'm very angry. I'm waiting for the 2008 to come back a long time ago.... And instead of returning models, they retire even more models...

 

[Skyblue]

I just got an offer from my Dell representative for the 3008 at around $4000 (dkk 19000 tax included). So they are back in Denmark. Somewhat expensive though.

Anyone know when the new models are comming out?

 

[EDUBUDAN]

Cascaman:

Yes Dell may be crazy.

Here in Argentina they sold the 3008WFP only one week (...) in January, I bought mine through and indirect reseller in February for 2650 US dollars not cheap but very close to the US price of US $1999 + 8% sales tax = 2158 US $

I am planning buying another one in the future, probably the next revision (A02).But the sales people that run our Company account are all focused in servers and big sales they don´t know of monitors.

In Dell Argentina when the quality problems happened the 3008 disappeared, but the 3007,2707, 2408 and 2208 has always been available. (PD: when I was writing this Dell added the 2709W to Argentina site)

Yesterday I checked Dell and the hard to get 3008 is now available in our neighbour Brasil, at an astronomical price (6043 Reales around US $ 4000) but neither here nor in the other Latin America countries, something rare because Dell is very strong in our continent.

The 3008 is not available even in Mexico and that´s very strange.

Apple for example sells in Mexico exactly the same line than in USA and Canada.

Checking different european websites of Dell , Spain is not alone, in France you has a very austere offering and the european prices are very high doing the euro/dollar conversion.

As in Spain you would said "a joderse hombre !!!"

 

[cascaman]

As in Spain you would said "a joderse hombre !!!"

Eso es lo que estoy teniendo que hacer precisamente... ¡Qué remedio!

-------------------------------

Now, the new 2709 is on sale at Spanish website. I hope that 3008 come back soon (and with no backlight bleeding problems)

 

[cascaman]

3008 has come back to the web.... 400 euros more expensive than before!!!! Dell, you're crazy. For such a price, it is a much better monitor the NEC 3090... You only have a lot of video connections and a hardware scaler, but NEC is better...

 

[Skyblue]

3008 has come back to the web.... 400 euros more expensive than before!!!! Dell, you're crazy. For such a price, it is a much better monitor the NEC 3090... You only have a lot of video connections and a hardware scaler, but NEC is better...

I Agree. They tried to sell it to me too with the increased price, but couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't get one of the old ones. They called it a rerelease. Well, has anyone gotten any of the "new" ones, and what is the difference anyway?

 

[cascaman]

Incredible... If the raise the price, it is "supposed" to be a new model with some modifications, new features or corrections. So it is incredible that they don't guarantee that you will receive a new one. If they would send an old one to you, it should cost like the old one...

If I buy it and receive and old revision, I will return it until I get a new one... or a refund.

 

[leftheaded]

i really wanted the NEC LCD3090, but i jumped on the 3008WFP simply because it ended up costing $1550. should arrive next week. the only things that i'm a little concerned about are the HDMI overscanning & backlight bleeding. if i can't tolerate it, i'll just sell it for a loss and get the 3090 :/

i'm a sucker for a sale LOL

 

[Skyblue]

i really wanted the NEC LCD3090, but i jumped on the 3008WFP simply because it ended up costing $1550. should arrive next week. the only things that i'm a little concerned about are the HDMI overscanning & backlight bleeding. if i can't tolerate it, i'll just sell it for a loss and get the 3090 :/

i'm a sucker for a sale LOL

The price in Denmark is $3,813. As you can imagine, it really better be the smoking second comming of Christ in the form of a monitor.

 

[MANTIS]

How does scaling works with ps3 ,xbox360 i mean does the image fit the screen (720p,1080p) or are they black bars on top and bottom of the screen? How god is the image upscaling ?

 

[Skyblue]

They just lowered the price in dk $2666. One is comming my way

 

[MANTIS]

I don't know it this true or not ,but according to this website http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-023-DE it seems that a02 revision is out....

 

[daveswantek]

I don't know it this true or not ,but according to this website http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-023-DE it seems that a02 revision is out....

Look at the latest review on Dell's website; it says specifically that the backlight problem has been corrected. I really hope that is true.

Dave

 

[tonlin]

Does the monitor bypass the scaler when the videocard output is 2560x1600?

 

[trainee]

Does the monitor bypass the scaler when the videocard output is 2560x1600?

No. There is no way to bypass the scalar. Maybe a stickied faq thread would be helpful.

 

[cascaman]

3008 came back to spanish web at a price of 2260 eur. ¡400 eur more from March to July!

Next day, 3008's price were 1582 eur. But it is a July-only discount. I suppose that the price will raise again in August.

I have orderer one. I really hope I'll receive an A02 with no backlight bleeding problems at all...

 

[Skyblue]

3008 came back to spanish web at a price of 2260 eur. ¡400 eur more from March to July!

Next day, 3008's price were 1582 eur. But it is a July-only discount. I suppose that the price will raise again in August.

I have orderer one. I really hope I'll receive an A02 with no backlight bleeding problems at all...

They did the same exact thing in Denmark! They put it back on, at a high price for about a week. Then announced a huge discount, july only.

 

[leftheaded]

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

 

[daveswantek]

the only thing i'm not liking on my dell 3008 is this weird grainy-like "film" i see with light colors (eg like whites etc..). it's hard to describe, but it made me brush the screen b/c it almost seemed like there was dust on it. it's very noticable, but i can't tell at all on darks.

i'm hoping the grainy/film thing just needs proper calibration. ...which i hope to do tonight with my spyder2 pro

anyone else experience this? is this just an artifact of displays this size?

How is the backlight uniformity? Is the brightness still out of control?

If they have fixed these issues I am going to be spending way too much money on a display.

Thanks

Dave

 

[leftheaded]

How is the backlight uniformity? Is the brightness still out of control?

If they have fixed these issues I am going to be spending way too much money on a display.

Thanks

Dave

backlight bleeding is more noticeable when sitting close (within 6'). mine fans out in an even 6" radius from the lower corners. can't see it from over 6' away. i tested this by turning the contrast all the way down to make my screen entirely blank. brightness was on 35. in actual use, i have not been bothered by backlight bleeding at all.

it's the "grainy" issue that is bothering me. i think it might be what others describe as the "sparkling" issue... not sure what the hell to call it, but it annoys me enough that i'm already thinking of getting rid of this thing. i'm probably going to buy the NEC LCD3090 this week, do the side by side, and one of 'em is going back.

 

[MANTIS]

What revision of the 3008wfp did you get ?

 

[ToastyX]

backlight bleeding is more noticeable when sitting close (within 6'). mine fans out in an even 6" radius from the lower corners. can't see it from over 6' away. i tested this by turning the contrast all the way down to make my screen entirely blank. brightness was on 35. in actual use, i have not been bothered by backlight bleeding at all.

That sounds like the infamous IPS glow, which tends to show up in the corners from a normal viewing position. It's not backlight bleeding if you can't see it from over 6 feet away.

it's the "grainy" issue that is bothering me. i think it might be what others describe as the "sparkling" issue... not sure what the hell to call it, but it annoys me enough that i'm already thinking of getting rid of this thing. i'm probably going to buy the NEC LCD3090 this week, do the side by side, and one of 'em is going back.

The crystalized/dirty/dusty/frosty/glazed/glittery/grainy/noisy/sparkly/speckled look, or whatever you want to call it, is a characteristic of the anti-glare coating used on LG IPS panels. The NEC won't be any better. Only the 24" and 25.5" IPS panels don't have that look.

 

[leftheaded]

thanks a ton for such a clear explanation to a display noob like me

That sounds like the infamous IPS glow, which tends to show up in the corners from a normal viewing position. It's not backlight bleeding if you can't see it from over 6 feet away.

in that case i'd say i have little-to-no backlight bleeding, but i do have the ips glow.

The crystalized/dirty/dusty/frosty/glazed/glittery/grainy/noisy/sparkly/speckled look, or whatever you want to call it, is a characteristic of the anti-glare coating used on LG IPS panels. The NEC won't be any better. Only the 24" and 25.5" IPS panels don't have that look.

are there any 30" IPS panels coming that don't have this anti-glare coating "effect"? rumored or known? eg the new doublesight 30" maybe?

 

[10e]

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure the 30" S-IPS panel from LG is the same in all applications with current monitors.

This has been an issue with a number of LG S-IPS panels from the 20" in the Dell 2005FPW/2007WFP, Apple 23" Cinema (the worst I've ever seen in my life), and even older 20" 4:3 ratio S-IPS panels.

I don't know if the 24" and 25.5" (26") LG panels use a different anti-glare as part of the A-TW polarizer, but they are the only S-IPS screens I've seen that lack this feature.

You eventually get used to looking at what looks like a dirty screen. I would think the only action people could take is to complain, and hope it changes.

Regards,

10e

thanks a ton for such a clear explanation to a display noob like me


in that case i'd say i have little-to-no backlight bleeding, but i do have the ips glow.


are there any 30" IPS panels coming that don't have this anti-glare coating "effect"? rumored or known? eg the new doublesight 30" maybe?

 

[MANTIS]

Does anybbody knows if input lag has improved in A02 revision ,or is it on the same level as it was ??

 

[Skyblue]

I got my rev A02 today. As far as I can see, theres no measurable input lag, but as I understand it, its very subjective. Nothing that bothers me in any way, as of yet.

But, damn its huge. It dwarfs my 2405 which is not relegated to be a sidemirror.

Also, the colors are not very pleasent right out of the box. Can anyone recommend a good calibration, software or hardware?

 

[MANTIS]

Thanks for the answer ,I would be greatful if you could write few words after using 3008wfp for few days. Is there any noticeable backlight bleeding ?

 

[videomasterz]

yes and please post some pics!!