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Rage sucks

zsec said:
This is what Brink looked like to some people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLWIWZmpfA4

AMD sucks when it comes to drivers. It infuriates me that they can't get their shit together and have drivers for new game releases at launch.
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This is not an AMD specific issue, the texture streaming issue is a game wide issue, on NVIDIA and AMD hardware. Newer drivers are coming from AMD today, we'll see what those do.
 
Thank you Chris B for the link, still not perfect but much better after making cache directories and forcing vsync...now if those new drivers would come...
 
I sorta expected some texture issues from the start, I remember HL2 had some horrible stuttering issues the first week or so after it's release... but if the game itself sucks I totally blame Tim Willis, he designs for 12 year old mentality, it's so obvious. I'd personally fire him, or move him off the Doom 4 project and try to get someone who has a better sense of how to please the long-time hardcore doom fans.

Also, it seemed to me that Carmack's biggest compliment to the game was the artistic "painterly" style, almost as if that's the only thing he was really proud about... not much to do with the game itself. I wonder if he feels duped at all? I still like him. The texture pop-in looks horrid, but I'm willing to wait a while to see if it's a short-lived issue... if not, then Carmack I think loses points big-time in my book.
 
what will new drivers do if it's a game issue?...otherwise Nvidia would also be releasing new drivers today
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but when carmack was giving his keynote at quakecon he didn't quiet say it directly but the artists and designers didn't use the mega textures as he hoped, he said that they were adding little stuff here and there little textures and objects all over the world and this caused hampering of performance.
 
the "adding little stuff here and there" was the selling point of the engine though... lol, oh well, maybe IDs getting too big for carmack?
 
Yeah I did not want to jump in on this, but seriously. That is the last time I fucking pre-order a game before the reviews come out. $60 for this is way too much. My fault to buy it early. Won't do that again.
Now if they gave us some huge DLC for free, I'd be ok with it. I was actually looking for a mindless fun shooter but this is beyond bad.
 
zsec said:
AMD sucks when it comes to drivers. It infuriates me that they can't get their shit together and have drivers for new game releases at launch.
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Why do people blame AMD? When you are making a game, isn't it the responsibility of the developer to make sure the game works on all hardware before release?

If I am manufacturing a part that will go into two separate cars, do I only make sure that part only works in one car and not test the other one?
 
Nahawand said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but when carmack was giving his keynote at quakecon he didn't quiet say it directly but the artists and designers didn't use the mega textures as he hoped, he said that they were adding little stuff here and there little textures and objects all over the world and this caused hampering of performance.
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That's one problem though isn't it? If you are setting out to make a game, you have to adapt and add things here and there when you are making it. You can't decide before you start that you only get this giant painting and everything in the game over the next few years will be made from clips from this one painting and you do not deviate from it or add things here and there to it.
 
Nahawand said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but when carmack was giving his keynote at quakecon he didn't quiet say it directly but the artists and designers didn't use the mega textures as he hoped, he said that they were adding little stuff here and there little textures and objects all over the world and this caused hampering of performance.
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If the game engine isn't flexible enough to "add things here and there", I don't even know what to say to that, doesn't sound like a very flexible game engine to me.
 
Mortuus said:
but ffs it took them 6 years to develop a texture popping engine? did we go back in time 5 years or something where hardware sucked ass..
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Funniest thing i've read so far LOL
i trust [H]Readers more than those review sites, I don't think i'll be buying this xbox port.
This reminds me of Resident Evil 4 for the PC where they ported a port, The GameCube version looked twice as good as the PC and they never fixed it. GARBISH
 
Ualdayan said:
Kyle: "I think id Software should have a long time ago fired all the creative employees and gone into the middleware business. I think the PC gaming industry would have been better for this overall. God knows Epic left much to be desired with its engines on the PC side."

Kyle likes their engine more than Epic's. I didn't buy Rage so I have no idea, but he seems to like the engine side of it.
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Kyle's also not a game developer or an engine programmer, so I dare say he's not exactly qualified to judge id's engines against Epic's. Considering the number of games using UE3 and the number of games using id Tech 4, Epic must be doing something right.
 
After playing Carmack's games from the early 90's and on, I expected better than this. I am definitely disappointed, but I will certainly be giving him a chance to respond with actions, and take steps to remedy these issues. My other 6950 TFIIIPE card is sure lonely being out of crossfire John. How about using those programming skills of yours to help out us two decade PC gamers who have supported you from Wolfenstein 3D? :(
 
Chris_B said:
Probably be fixed in the first patch.
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That is the problem with todays games , they come out incomplete, people pay full price for them and have to rely on a patch to fix the game.

Ridiculous:eek:
 
Zero82z said:
Kyle's also not a game developer or an engine programmer, so I dare say he's not exactly qualified to judge id's engines against Epic's. Considering the number of games using UE3 and the number of games using id Tech 4, Epic must be doing something right.
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I did not judge these against each other, in fact I did not even compare those.

"Kyle: "I think id Software should have a long time ago fired all the creative employees and gone into the middleware business. I think the PC gaming industry would have been better for this overall. God knows Epic left much to be desired with its engines on the PC side."

This statement says, I THINK, PC gamers would have been better off if id would have focused on engines instead of content....which it did not, and I think PC gaming would be better now days if Epic had not gotten so entrenched in the engine game.

Just my opinion. So, while you are correct, I am not qualified to judge id's engine against Epic's, I did nothing of the sort.
 
Krenum said:
That is the problem with todays games , they come out incomplete, people pay full price for them and have to rely on a patch to fix the game.

Ridiculous:eek:
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Yet those same people look down at Console gamers....LOL
 
How bout this? Carmack purposefully screwed AMD for leaking Quake 4 all those years ago? Can't believe you tinfoil hat guys have not pulled that one out yet. :p
 
Spare-Flair said:
Why do people blame AMD? When you are making a game, isn't it the responsibility of the developer to make sure the game works on all hardware before release?

If I am manufacturing a part that will go into two separate cars, do I only make sure that part only works in one car and not test the other one?
Click to expand...


How true, how true it is! The idea that id software isn't well-off enough as a developer to purchase at least one ATi and nVidia 3d card of recent introduction to *test* RAGE on before release--is unbelievable. What--did id assume since it ran OK on a console that it would run fine on any 3d card released in the last couple of years? Eh? When you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME, as we used to say in the Navy...;)

Even though it has been a long, long time since I've looked at an id game or read a review about one, delivering buggy software on release is SOP for id. I think it was one of the Quake games--Quake3?--in which Carmack made a big deal about releasing it as beta to get feedback on bugs from the "community" so that he could patch as many bugs as possible. IIRC, one of the Quake games garnered in excess of 20-25 patches to the game before Carmack called it quits. (I'm hazy on the details, so beg pardon for any mistakes of recollection.)

Another factor I found strange is that it was *years ago* that Carmack formally announced id was dropping OpenGL as its target platform and moving to D3d, instead. It looks like what PC gamers are getting with RAGE is a port of a port. Looks like the game was native on the xBox 360 then ported to Windows OpenGL so that it could be run on a PC. Amazing that id software failed to notice the obvious problems with it for release day.

Well, so far at least the question of "Why no demo?" for RAGE has been satisfactorily answered. And a $60 MSRP for this really weak port? Balls of iron--balls of iron...;)
 
Krenum said:
That is the problem with todays games , they come out incomplete, people pay full price for them and have to rely on a patch to fix the game.

Ridiculous:eek:
Click to expand...

As opposed to the days when most PC games were exclusive and we still had to wait for a patch to fix problems? Simple fact: Today's games are many hundreds of times more complex than they used to be and that complexity means more cost to develop and more bugs. Some devs are better at QA than others, but complex software breeds complex bugs.
 
Even though Quake 4 was semi underwhelming to alot of people, it still had a decent single player and great (imo) multi that I play to this day. If Rage would've had some good dm multi or something interesting it wouldn't be so bad. But single and multi sucking is a no no.
 
Wow, just wow. I didn't tromp through this entire tread, but from what I have read so far, the graphical fuckups alone are making me seriously steer away from this game. Not even going to pyrat it LOL. Sounds like a lot of work left on it.
 
This engine goes backwards all because of Xbox 360 / PS3. Thats the sole reason for "megatexturing" because the damn consoles have no ram! So ID Tech 5 is going to need a serious texture rework or just avoid all of the future games using it.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Even though Quake 4 was semi underwhelming to alot of people, it still had a decent single player and great (imo) multi that I play to this day. If Rage would've had some good dm multi or something interesting it wouldn't be so bad. But single and multi sucking is a no no.
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I absolutely loved Doom 3 and Quake 4. These were simple, fun, raw, action games where reflexes were important. The stories moved along just fine IMO, just enough there to give a reason for all the shooting action. I like tactical games, I like RPG/Shooter hybrids like Deus Ex and System Shock, but there is plenty of room for a good old fashioned raw-action shooter. People don't often make the distinction, and make these mutually exclusive. They definitely don't have to be, and it all comes down to taste.

I still can't wait to get into RAGE actually. I'm running into the pop-in (though not as bad after a couple of Derangel's suggestions.) As soon as I get some properly fixed ATI drivers, I'm going to play the hell out of it. I can't see the core mechanics being that far off from the previous Tech 4 engine games. In fact, most of what people are complaining about (technical issues aside) is the simple play mechanics. Well, I knew this was id coming into this, and that's what I was looking for. So, no issue with simple shooting game-play. Sounds like the AI is ok too, so bonus there.

The only thing pissing me off right now, is that I refuse to play a game with texture pop-in, and that was hyped to lock at 60fps that isn't. So, fix that, and I'm totally happy. Don't even mind paying the price I paid if they fix it quickly.

I also disagree that the gaming community would be better off if id just made middleware. They have an artistic style that is very intriguing. (at least to me) They blend technology with the archaic in very interesting ways. Quake 3 is still amazingly fun to this day. Even Quake is still quite a playable game. They have a unique style that no other company has ever implemented, and I would miss them greatly if they didn't make games any longer. Their games are a different kind of experience altogether. Simple core mechanics interesting twists on albeit very simple stories, and great visuals. Walking up to some of the machinery in Doom 3 was jaw-dropping. Giant spinning reactor parts, giant arms swinging in to remove old matter/isotopes from machines, etc. A lot of these things just aren't done as big, as interesting, or in your face by other companies. Unreal games are cool. I've enjoyed them immensely in my time, but they just never had the same feel to me. They had a bit more to their gameplay, but never had that satisfying id feel. It's more than the sum if its parts. Can't quite explain it.

Anyway, hope the RAGE issues are fixed soon, because I need an id fix, and so far it's too broken for me to consider it one.
 
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It's been well established that iD games blow. Every game they've made has been bad. The only ones that stand out are 20 years old, and the standards were pretty low back then. Q3 stands out for fast paced fragging, but had no redeeming features aside from that.

Their art department has sucked. I thought Doom3 looked like garbage when it was new. None of the screenshots I've seen of Rage have looked good either. Mainly because their modeling geometry is bad (engine limitation?). The art department has no color palette and every one of their games have environments that look the same.

None of their games have a respectable story, or exceptional gameplay, or varied environments. It's a wonder they're still in business. Carmack is so overrated.

/rant
 
L0s7 4 Lyf3 said:
It's been well established that iD games blow. Every game they've made has been bad. The only ones that stand out are 20 years old, and the standards were pretty low back then. Q3 stands out for fast paced fragging, but had no redeeming features aside from that.

Their art department has sucked. I thought Doom3 looked like garbage when it was new. None of the screenshots I've seen of Rage have looked good either. Mainly because their modeling geometry is bad (engine limitation?). The art department has no color palette and every one of their games have environments that look the same.

None of their games have a respectable story, or exceptional gameplay, or varied environments. It's a wonder they're still in business. Carmack is so overrated.

/rant
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Yup...jump on the bandwagon. :rolleyes:
 
Quake 4 was not developed by id, their name is attached because Quake is their property and it used id tech 4.

ShuttleLuv said:
This engine goes backwards all because of Xbox 360 / PS3. Thats the sole reason for "megatexturing" because the damn consoles have no ram! So ID Tech 5 is going to need a serious texture rework or just avoid all of the future games using it.
Click to expand...

I think what you are actually referring to is the streaming implementation used by id tech 5, or at least in Rage. Megatexturing itself is not directly related to this, it was actually first used in Quake Wars, which I'm pretty sure did not have this issue.

Streaming itself does benefit low memory systems, but it does have other benefits as well, so it isn't just console related. For instance every large open world game will use streaming, this is what enables them. Of course there are differing implementations.
 
Ahh the refreshing joy of being a broke gamer. I get to sit back and watch all the nerd rage over broken games and people who put down full price, while I can pick them up months later in the bargin bin when hopefully some of the issues have been patched out.

Sucks to be broke now, but it certainly keeps me from wasting money. Thanks for this thread. Makes me feel a little bit better about my situation. Money does not equal happiness!
 
Derangel said:
As opposed to the days when most PC games were exclusive and we still had to wait for a patch to fix problems? Simple fact: Today's games are many hundreds of times more complex than they used to be and that complexity means more cost to develop and more bugs. Some devs are better at QA than others, but complex software breeds complex bugs.
Click to expand...

More Complex? Really you think that? Ok.

"More cost to develop and more bugs?" that's an oxymoron. If it costs more to develop don't you think the money allocated to making the title would be used to iron out the bugs and make it the best it could be upon launch?

Which brings me to my next point. Misguided development companies.

Carmack said himself , that he wished he had developed this game for the PC rather than developing it on a console due to hardware limitations.
 
wasteomind said:
Ahh the refreshing joy of being a broke gamer. I get to sit back and watch all the nerd rage over broken games and people who put down full price, while I can pick them up months later in the bargin bin when hopefully some of the issues have been patched out.

Sucks to be broke now, but it certainly keeps me from wasting money. Thanks for this thread. Makes me feel a little bit better about my situation. Money does not equal happiness!
Click to expand...

I literally preorded my copy on Amazon a week ago, kept up with the game on these forums, and cancelled my preorder 3 days before release.

I'm in the "thank god I didn't waste $60 on this turd" boat.
 
Krenum said:
More Complex? Really you think that? Ok.

"More cost to develop and more bugs?" that's an oxymoron. If it costs more to develop don't you think the money allocated to making the title would be used to iron out the bugs and make it the best it could be upon launch?

Which brings me to my next point. Misguided development companies.

Carmack said himself , that he wished he had developed this game for the PC rather than developing it on a console due to hardware limitations.
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Oh I'm not excusing bugs or problems, just explaining why there are more these days. Even drivers are many times more complex. Like I said some developers are better at QA than others or you could say some care more.
 
Fuck you Carmack, FUCK YOU! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE KILLING PC GAMING GOD DAMNIT!
 
John Vuong said:
Ok that is horrible, looks like ID fucked it up by porting this to PC with more shitty bugs, thats what we PC users get these days. Disgraceful. And how the fuck did ID not even notice this anyway?
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How can you SERIOUSLY believe the game was supposed to look like that? Man, people are idiots. It's obviously a driver issue.

The number of times users think bugs are purposeful changes never cease to amaze me. I can't even begin to count the number of times the 'bug report' is a hateful profanity filled rant demanding a "change is rolled back" instead of a "um, guys, I'm experiencing this issue under this configuration, I think something might be borken"
 
Wow. Im speechless. It seems that iD has gone console since texture popping is a side effect of console's only having 512MB of RAM (XB360) so they need to constantly stream textures in and out. Its a shame nobody there gave a sht about PC's to even playtest there own game on one. Im not going to support this crap with my money.
 
Oh calm down... If they don't fix it soon, I'll be yelling right along with you. Sometimes shit happens. If they don't fix it, they're as bad as the worst of the whiners are saying. If they take all this feedback, patch it up quick, and get use playing it, then not so bad. Yes, it should definitely have been tested more/better before release. Obviously something went wrong, and I think they at least deserve a chance (with a limited window of opportunity) to fix it. To qualify this statement, yes, I'm a huge id fan. A currently, very disappointed one, but still a fan. They screwed up large-scale, so they better fix it large-scale. If they do, they'll keep a huge fan.
 
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