Radeon HD 2900 XT: Flop or Not?

[Rabid Badger]

I voted "Not so bad" and here's why:

1) Is the 2900XT slower than nVidias cards at stock speeds? Yes. Does anyone here honestly give a shit about stock speeds? I think not. The last time I checked the OCP in [H]ard|OCP stood for Overclockers Comparison Page. We're here because we like to push our equipment as fast as it can go, and according to Kyle, this card can go ridiculously fast.

2) Does this card suck down power like a frat boy hitting a beer bong? Hell yes it does. Are any of you that were seriously considering getting one of these cards not already packing a 600W PSU or looking to pick one up? I doubt it. Worried about your power bill? Unplug your Teletubbies nightlight.

3) Can you get an 8800GTS for less money than a 2900XT? Yes, and they're only getting cheaper.

Now tell me this: Is there any graphics solution for $400 that is going to beat a 2900XT running at 1GHz? Not [H]ardly.

 

[Dan_D]

I voted flop for now.

The tech looks good overall though. I suspect that AMD will get the kinks worked out in the next 6 months and that the followup card (Christmas ?) will put them back in the hunt with whatever Nvidia's next card brings to the table.

I doubt it. They'll likely need more than a simple refresh to take on the successor to G80. At any given point in the last year or so ATI has been at least six months behind NVIDIA in development. That gap won't get easier to close, in fact it will likely become much harder.

The one and only time ATI ever leapfrogged NVIDIA is when they bought out ArtX which is where the bulk of R300's technology came from. I fear they will need to do something like that again to catch up to NVIDIA.

(AMD did this too with the aquisition of Next Gen Systems. This provided them with the technology to create K6 and to some extent K7.)

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

But how far away is the G90? We've heard nothing at all. I'd be shocked to see it out this year.

 

[Dan_D]

But how far away is the G90? We've heard nothing at all. I'd be shocked to see it out this year.

Well if NVIDIA stays true to form the successor to G80 would be due out in November at the earliest.

 

[ecktt]

Though I will be going NV, not all people exclusively play games. Fully accelerated video play of most if not all codecs are a plus. Also better IQ of the Video play back is something else to look @.

 

[Dan_D]

I voted "Not so bad" and here's why:

1) Is the 2900XT slower than nVidias cards at stock speeds? Yes. Does anyone here honestly give a shit about stock speeds? I think not. The last time I checked the OCP in [H]ard|OCP stood for Overclockers Comparison Page. We're here because we like to push our equipment as fast as it can go, and according to Kyle, this card can go ridiculously fast.

2) Does this card suck down power like a frat boy hitting a beer bong? Hell yes it does. Are any of you that were seriously considering getting one of these cards not already packing a 600W PSU or looking to pick one up? I doubt it. Worried about your power bill? Unplug your Teletubbies nightlight.

3) Can you get an 8800GTS for less money than a 2900XT? Yes, and they're only getting cheaper.

Now tell me this: Is there any graphics solution for $400 that is going to beat a 2900XT running at 1GHz? Not [H]ardly.

You make some valid points here. Only if someone is considering some pretty hardcore overclocking should they consider the HD 2900XT. You sir have made the most convincing arguement out of nearly 1,000 posts I've skimmed through on the [H] forums since the launch of the HD 2900XT.

If I didn't already have two 8800GTX's that I am ordering water blocks for, I'd consider actually buying one.

 

[Netrat33]

floppy disk!

 

[ziddey]

it's progress. friggin hdcp, and having audio et al. more than what nvidia is doing.. the price is understandable

 

[deadsoulz]

Drivers are an important factor. If ATI could get the drivers to eek out a bit more performance, and keep them stable. They could win in my book. Currently G80 series in Vista isn't exactly stable in all games. (and please don't say don't use vista) This card was made for DX10 you should be able to use it with the only o/s that currently supports DX10 and ahve it be stable. I am still a little peeved at NVIDIA for continually dropping the ball on Driver stability in Vista and these $400+ video cards.

Sorry didn't mean to rant. ATI could win some market share this way.

--DS

 

[rennyf77]

i've owned just about every mid/high range and premium video card released in the last two and a half years. in that span of time i have found that nvidia cards tend to deliver slightly better frame rates, while ati cards display better textures with everything turned up ( i.e. transparency aa, adaptive aa, hq aniso, hq texturing - trust no site that fails to use these features in reviews). [H]'s video card evaluations coincide with my own gaming experiences, so i have no doubt in their evaluation of the 2900xt. the card is a flop even if future driver updates improve upon its current performance because a refresh is certainly around the corner. hopefully a 2950xt is only two months away like the switch from x18 to x19 so we can forget about this painfully inadequate card. i have hope for future iterations of the x2 line, but the x2900xt needs to be put to sleep.

 

[Manny Calavera]

I voted flop.

Delayed, runs too hot, mediocre performance vs 6 month old hardware...

seems the fanboys really can't get over that fact and have to push every little thing that isn't negative til the cows come home. the cows aren't coming. sorry

Ditto on the above.Some on this forum and a few others are still holding on no matter what. After all this,what gets me is that some here still just cant accept reality,and are obviously in deep deep denial.

Even some of the long time hard core ati stalwarts on B3D are admitting defeat on this.Give it up,the fat lady has sung.

AMDati wanted us all to wait 6+ months to hear her song,and yesterday her voice cracked at the start of her most important performance ever !

The emperor has no clothes !


They lost this round,clearly....... Get over it, buy the best and move on and enjoy some games using better engineered hardware,like the rest of us have for months now.Buying in to this tripe only tells AMD that hot,late,noisy,and lies and constant delays are more then acceptable.

 

[Waterboy]

it's progress. friggin hdcp, and having audio et al. more than what nvidia is doing.. the price is understandable

Speaking of HDCP (HDMI, right?), and audio, how are these used exactly. I am not hooking my system up to my entertainment system, so what is the point of these features? Do I need to upgrade my Dell 24" to use the HDMI port? Can I take out my X-Fi sound card now that there's an audio option with the 2900? I am just curious as to how these are use?

Thanks.

 

[Dwight]

Only if someone is considering some pretty hardcore overclocking should they consider the HD 2900XT.

...or they run Vista.

 

[Old_Way]

I read a lot on what the 2900 brings to the table tech-wise. If the heat / power problem was fixed (or even minimized) the 2900 would be running at a much higher clock speed than what we're seeing now and it would be getting a better reception from the community. I'm not suggesting it would kick Nvidia's butt, just that it would be a much more competative card if it was actually running at the speeds it was originally designed to run.

I really think ATI / AMD isn't so far behind in their tech that they can't be competative on this next cycle at the end of the year.

I'm still completely happy that I jumped on a 8800GTS back in early December when Dell had them for $380 though. You may be able to get one cheaper now, but I've been enjoying my card for 6 months To the procrastinators that waited on the 2900 cards, well I'm sorry.

 

[GoodBoy]

I voted flop. Perhaps my opinion will change if overclocking results in some massive performance boost. But as it stands with the heat as high as it is, and power requirements where they are.... overclocking this thing will require water at a minimum. Add to that 850W+ psu.

I suppose if someone knows ahead of time (of building a system) the actual overclock-ability of the gpu, and plans for it, the costs could stay reasonable, and performance could exceed a stock 8800gtx. But would it really be worth it? All the heat and problems of water cooling, or for basically the same (extra) cost get an 8800gxt that runs cooler, helps keep overall system cooler?

I would have to see performance graphs of non-oc'd vs 8800gtx vs oc'd 2900, as well as power drain's for each to make an informed decision.

Overclocking might be a hobby for many, I oc myself but nothing major ( any longer) Now-days I overclock what I can using air-cooling and am happy with the performance.

IMHO the nvidia gpu is a better archtecture, looking at how power efficient it is in comparison.

Future drivers might yeild some performance boosts for the 2900, but I doubt it ever exceeds 10% above what was measured at [H]. And these driver improvements may cause the power drain to go up on the card. We've seen that in the past on ATI cards.

The 2900's architecture may very well be a good foundation for future gpu's tho. If they can lower the heat/power needed with a die shrink, could put it over the top. However this would have been much truer last november. By the time they accomplish this, nvidia will be steamrolling ahead.....

The one good thing about this card is that it helps keep nvidias' prices in line, no monopoly.

 

[Super-b]

at this point, 9 ppl have voted that it's awesome. haha. jokesters.

i was hoping this could have been something good for amd, they certainly need it at this point.

 

[tnu5]

I've read 3 reviews, all look meh compared to 8800 series.

No fanboy stuff, just what I've seen, no improvement for the price.

 

[Eden]

Oh one more thing! The current state of the card is that it leaks, now this has been said to affect power consumption but I believe that it also might have an impact on performance, and just as some cards may have lower consumption I believe some may perform differently, and while this is the case with any mass produced product I weary that this product may vary more wildly than normal, that too is not acceptable.

NICE!!! Already 6 months behind the competition and they still managed to "rush it out" to market

Did anyone notice the pattern here?!

nVidia worked on the Xbox, then released the FX series cards which were the biggest flops in GPU history (until now).

ATi not only worked with Nintendo AND Microsoft on their console chips but was also bought by AMD... They came out with the R600 which, like the FX 5800, is loud and sucks up much more power than the competition...

nVidia finally got their crap together because they worked with Sony on the PS3's RSX (which was just a beefy 7800 from what I've read) and still managed to keep the Perf Crown for 6 months before ATi could even think about challenging them.

Don't work with Microsoft on a console GPU unless you're ready with a kickass PC GPU!!

So, hard lesson learned, ATi/AMD! I look forward to the R700... they say that's when AMD and ATi will join their tech knowledge... the R600 is still just ATi's baby... seems like this kid came out sideways and now Momma's going to hurt for a while.

I guess it's easy to become complacent when M$ force-feeds you with GREENS.

 

[TigerLord]

Considering ATI had 9 months or so to compare the products, the current price and specs... it's a total flop.

What kind of company leaves the high-end market to another company without even trying to compete ?

 

[novemberrain]

1) Is the 2900XT slower than nVidias cards at stock speeds? Yes. Does anyone here honestly give a shit about stock speeds? I think not. The last time I checked the OCP in [H]ard|OCP stood for Overclockers Comparison Page. We're here because we like to push our equipment as fast as it can go, and according to Kyle, this card can go ridiculously fast.

You forget that almost all, if not all reviews are done with an engineering sample, which will not resemble retail cards. Retails may be faster or slower, most likely slower. And remember that 8800's overclock like crazy too. Not over 1Ghz core, but they're more memory depended and capped, so taking memory up to 2-2.2 will have significant boost as we know.

Overall it's not so bad, but those who got the GTX half a year ago must be very happy. I regret I didn't, because I was fool to think there must be another DX10 generation soon. I guess I was wrong. Overall I'd get one if the price was something close to 8800GTS 320Mb.

 

[Dwight]

What kind of company leaves the high-end market to another company without even trying to compete ?

One where their new, debt-bound owners are calling up daily and screaming into the phone "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

They are going to go straight to where the money is and that ain't at the top.

 

[GabooN]

I voted "Not so bad" and here's why:

1) Is the 2900XT slower than nVidias cards at stock speeds? Yes. Does anyone here honestly give a shit about stock speeds? I think not. The last time I checked the OCP in [H]ard|OCP stood for Overclockers Comparison Page. We're here because we like to push our equipment as fast as it can go, and according to Kyle, this card can go ridiculously fast.

2) Does this card suck down power like a frat boy hitting a beer bong? Hell yes it does. Are any of you that were seriously considering getting one of these cards not already packing a 600W PSU or looking to pick one up? I doubt it. Worried about your power bill? Unplug your Teletubbies nightlight.

3) Can you get an 8800GTS for less money than a 2900XT? Yes, and they're only getting cheaper.

Now tell me this: Is there any graphics solution for $400 that is going to beat a 2900XT running at 1GHz? Not [H]ardly.

Maybe a few years ago before I had a family I would try a 400 $ gamble but this isn’t a retail card for one and not everyone’s OC will yield the same results. Me personally I would stick with the faster card and OC it, this isn’t like the days of old, a cheap Celeron. Still it would be nice to see what this thing can do and I am sure Hardocp will push a retail card to its limits.

I still cant get the taste of how much power this thing draws, makes me wonder where all this electric is going, since I read it has a “leak”?

 

[Eden]

I still cant get the taste of how much power this thing draws, makes me wonder where all this electric is going, since I read it has a “leak”?

Apparently the electricity goes toward roasting a chicken, as some1 pointed out in the [H] review thread.

 

[jebo_4jc]

I still cant get the taste of how much power this thing draws, makes me wonder where all this electric is going, since I read it has a “leak”?

Into the air in the form of heat, most likely.

 

[Leo`]

I have my Card at home it says : "left on front door" hopefully my dog guards it with his life and the UPS guy didn't toss it on my door step


<---- So happy, Now I could have my Nvidia Setup and my AMD Setup

 

[noc_81]

The fact of the matter is that Ati and NVidia have always produced similar performing products, but the last several generations ATI has just released their products too late to combat nvidia's card which are already starting to go on sale. Once ATI reduces that gap, things will appear much more even across the board (if not in ATI's corner).

 

[Bokishi]

It is a flop. ATI just can't compete

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I wouldn't call it a flop. It's not like Nvidia's FX series. At least it will be competitive in the midrange, where it counts.

 

[nicepun]

The fact of the matter is that Ati and NVidia have always produced similar performing products, but the last several generations ATI has just released their products too late to combat nvidia's card which are already starting to go on sale. Once ATI reduces that gap, things will appear much more even across the board (if not in ATI's corner).

Sorry but only this generation G80 vs R600 nVidia is ahead. The 7900 Series (aside from the GX2 which was actually two video cards) non of them could touch the X1900XTX or X1950XTX. This round is def nVidia's.

 

[forcefed]

The last time I checked the OCP in [H]ard|OCP stood for Overclockers Comparison Page.

Didnt it originally stand for Over-Clockers Paradise?

 

[Sniper_Merc]

It's not too horrible, there will still be a lot of !!!!!'s that wil proclaim it the best thing since fruit on the bottom yogurt tho.

 

[Jalidi]

So many people are on the Flop Bandwagon. There's just no way this card could've lived up to expectations and all the hype. Coming out fashionably late didn't help, either.

Personally I think it's remarkable ATI independently came up with a viable and competitive product against the G80 which is, in itself, a technological miracle. The 2900 XT competes with the 8800 GTS and, with continued driver revisions and proper utilization of its hardware by developers, it may end up bettering the GTX in the end.

I do wish it came out at 65 nm though... that would've improved things all around quite a bit, I think.

 

[kirbyrj]

I don't know why some people think a few driver revisions are going to save the card. Sure you'll pick up some extra performance, but you're not going to gain 30&#37; just in a driver. If you pick up 10% over the entire driver revision history, you'd be lucky. Drivers aren't going to help power draw and noise either.

 

[firebyyrd]

sorry ati, but your out of luck with me.

 

[nilepez]

how much of the performance difference is do to the 512mb vs the 768mb on the gtx? I have to admit i am greatly dissapointed in the 2900 which i have been waiting for since the 8800s were released. i may still have to go with the 2900 however seens as i have everything to run CF and not to excited to replace my board and such.
i run my games at 1900x1200 so i know it has to make some difference.

I could be wrong, but didn't it run slower than the 640mb GTS?

As for board replacement, if you're going to spend almost a grand on video cards, does replacing a MB really matter (especially since you can sell your old MB).

Besides, isn't the 8800GTX pretty much able to play most games (at max setting no less) at 1900x1200?

I'd swear that was what [H] determined months ago.

 

[jarman]

HD 2900XT is a flop. Seriously, engineers at my company would be fired for producing an inefficient, non-competitive product such as this.

 

[Met-AL]

Have we seen the card running DX10 games yet?

 

[-(Xyphox)-]

I thought i would see more from ATi with this release, I was waiting for the info from these new cards before i build a new machine. I am hoping they will come up with someone to stand up against the 8800 GTX if not, they are done. The benchmark scores were truely sad it brought a tear to my eye

 

[djBon2112]

It's a flop, regardless of drivers. Even IF it slightly outperforms the 8800 GTS with a driver update, so what? It's still using 100 more watts of power, and it still costs more.

Big fat flop. Sorry ATi, but it is.

 

[kirbyrj]

Have we seen the card running DX10 games yet?

DX10 is kind of irrelevant as most gamers haven't bought into the whole Vista side of things yet. By the time that happens, we'll have a refresh from both Nvidia and ATI.