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PS3 - What's going on? Is it already Over?
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4saken
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quadnad said:Well I'm an F1 fan and I'm fucking furious that Sony has the license. It just means that I'll never get to see an F1 game for the PC again (or any other platform than the PS) until something happens with that license
Hehe...well i can assure you that what ive played and seen so far that at least Sony is doing it complete justice. From the sounds to the announcing to the graphics and gameplay. Completely immersive. But i can see how its a bummer you wont be seeing it on any other platform.
Remeber Blu-Ray burners are also available, mind you at $800+ not many people will have one.
Every single system sony has made has been cracked wide open. Just a matter of time
So has MS, but the 360 may be a differant story... With such a heavy Live integration It may be hard to crack, i dont know tho... hehe
Every single system sony has made has been cracked wide open. Just a matter of time
So has MS, but the 360 may be a differant story... With such a heavy Live integration It may be hard to crack, i dont know tho... hehe
swatbat
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MaxKool said:
What major system has not been cracked wide open in the last few years? The saturn, psx, n64, game boy(all versions), ps2, gamecube, xbox, psp. See a pattern? Hell they have already hacked the 360 to play pirate games.
Also what does this really have to do with the question the op asked?
flapbreaker said:
This says it all. MS was first and the haters criticized it (including me), now that sony released it's sub-par overpriced system it looks like they are going to hurt badly this generation. Sure it's only a week, but I see a lot more Wii and Xbox 360 hype than this ps3.
If sony actually kept the original system they wanted to create, i would have gotten one. Two TV out puts and all that fine stuff would have been pretty sweet for FPS games.
GoldenTiger
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VoodooChi|d said:
Joking, I assume?
Zelda: TP (classic gameplay with a much more intricate, detailed storyline that could be considered literary)
Marvel: UA (port, but it uses the Wii controls well for a better experience and is a solid game like X-Men Legends)
Rayman: Raving Rabbits (AWESOME huge minigame collection like WarioWare)
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz (fun twitch-gameplay and some minigames)
Trauma Center: Second Opinion (Operation: the videogame, with real-life surgical procedures!)
Excite Truck (fun arcade-style racer)
Red Steel (once you get over the very steep learning curve)
Wii Sports (FREE pack-in, at that!)
Madden 2007 (with well-done Wii-mote controls)
DBZ (for Fighting game fans)
Thanksgiving Wii HOT List from IGN: http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747448p1.html
Psychotext
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See what you're saying, but the only one of those with any major critical acclaim is Zelda.GoldenTiger said:
Lord Nassirbannipal
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GoldenTiger said:
Even though that is a variety of titles, Marvel, Madden, DBZ, and Rayman are available on other consoles, Trauma Center: SO is too much like the DS game, Super Monkey Ball: BB feels like it has the Wiimote forced into it, and the rest are rather "meh".
The only must-have title is Zelda.
Psychotext
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Looks like I may have been wrong on the timescale...Psychotext said:
http://ps3-evolution.dcemu.co.uk/devhook-for-ps3-soon-rumour-44063.html
GoldenTiger
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Psychotext said:
Those all had averages of about 8.0/10 other than the AAA title, Zelda. That's a lot more than the PS3 can say with one somewhat-good title (Resistance) and a bunch of mediocre ports that are the EXACT same as the 360's versions, only pricier and without any rumble feature.
Honestly ? I think most people just arn't excited about paying $500/600 for a console that isn't offering anything better then what the 360 is right now. The fact that nobody is raving about thier PS3s at launch should be a sign of things to come.
GoldenTiger
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Lord Nassirbannipal said:
Marvel is available on other platforms, without the motion controls, yes, so that I grant you. However, Madden's control system is FULLY revamped for the Wii, DBZ uses the Wii controls well, and Rayman: Raving Rabbits is NOT playable at all like it is on the Wii, nothing similar at all, it is a Warioware-style game, not a platformer like you're thinking. Trauma Center's previous game (SO is a sequel) is obviously going to be like the first one, because they're in the same series and use the same gameplay. Not everyone owns a DS or has the game for the DS, so it's wrong to knock it for that. Monkey Ball has an awesome new way for that game, using tilt/rotation to affect the level, instead of just tapping buttons every 0.15344 seconds with a break of 0.2 seconds every 4 taps like it does on previous games
. Please explain the rest being "meh"?
GoldenTiger
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theNoid said:
Everyone who has played them (I have played all of the above for 2hrs+ each, and own Zelda/WiiSports/Marvel/ExciteTruck/Rayman) agrees that they are very, very fun. They also all (except Red Steel, because of its high learning curve) received great scores (8.0+) on average, with Zelda logging in at a 9.5+ on sites in general according to gamerankings. I think you're wrong, and there is plenty of evidence against your opinion
. Sorry.Lord Nassirbannipal
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GoldenTiger said:Marvel is available on other platforms, without the motion controls, yes, so that I grant you. However, Madden's control system is FULLY revamped for the Wii, DBZ uses the Wii controls well, and Rayman: Raving Rabbits is NOT playable at all like it is on the Wii, nothing similar at all, it is a Warioware-style game, not a platformer like you're thinking. Trauma Center's previous game (SO is a sequel) is obviously going to be like the first one, because they're in the same series and use the same gameplay. Not everyone owns a DS or has the game for the DS, so it's wrong to knock it for that. Monkey Ball has an awesome new way for that game, using tilt/rotation to affect the level, instead of just tapping buttons every 0.15344 seconds with a break of 0.2 seconds every 4 taps like it does on previous games
I've already said that it was a good variety of titles, and they do indeed provide a different way to play, but that's all it is, different. The fact that you conrol the games by flicking a remote around doesn't make the game any better.
What people here are saying is that the only great game or must-have game is Zelda. The rest are good titles, but that's all they are, good. You can use the Wiimote with them, but Wiimote support is just there for the sake of it and doesn't add to the quality of the game. When titles that are built around the Wiimote and make effective use of it are available, then this will change, but right now, that's not the case.
Spaceman_Spiff
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GoldenTiger said:
monkey ball: 75.0%
excite truck: 74.0%
red steel: 68.7%
The rest are "around" 80%...but on today's 7-10 rating scale that hardly signifies a great game.
Also, marvel, tramua center, madden, and zelda (yes it is, it was only released first to boost wii sales- its a gamecube game) are all ports.
Rash
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jesusTheToE! said:
It's all a matter of timing.
The Xbox 360 really was the first out of the next-gen gate, and by a considerable margin. Many of the things you guys are so currently ho-hum about, like ubiquitous multiplayer, integrated matchmaking, messaging, next-gen graphics, etc. were pioneered by the 360. PGR 3 might be less impressive today, but back in the day, it was the first console racer to have that kind of pervasive online multiplayer support, and it looked sexy as hell to boot.
Fast forward a year, and the PS3 is released. The PS3's operating system software is clearly unfinished. The multiplayer system is free, but can't hold a candle to Live in terms of features. Its hardware capabilities, while better in spots (standards-based Bluetooth support, motion sensing, Blu-Ray), are not really perceived as being all that much better than the 360 on the whole for gaming, especially when taking into consideration price.
Toss in a much smaller launch than the 360 (which, IIRC, was 2 million world-wide), and it's hardly a surprise that the PS3 isn't really getting much of a buzz. I'd expect that to change as Sony releases firmware updates and gets more units into the channel.
The Wii suffers from many of the same issues, but at least has a novel controller to contribute.
The Xbox 360 really was the first out of the next-gen gate, and by a considerable margin. Many of the things you guys are so currently ho-hum about, like ubiquitous multiplayer, integrated matchmaking, messaging, next-gen graphics, etc. were pioneered by the 360. PGR 3 might be less impressive today, but back in the day, it was the first console racer to have that kind of pervasive online multiplayer support, and it looked sexy as hell to boot.
Fast forward a year, and the PS3 is released. The PS3's operating system software is clearly unfinished. The multiplayer system is free, but can't hold a candle to Live in terms of features. Its hardware capabilities, while better in spots (standards-based Bluetooth support, motion sensing, Blu-Ray), are not really perceived as being all that much better than the 360 on the whole for gaming, especially when taking into consideration price.
Toss in a much smaller launch than the 360 (which, IIRC, was 2 million world-wide), and it's hardly a surprise that the PS3 isn't really getting much of a buzz. I'd expect that to change as Sony releases firmware updates and gets more units into the channel.
The Wii suffers from many of the same issues, but at least has a novel controller to contribute.
During my lunch hour today I was talking to the manager of my local EB and he said that people are calling and stopping in CONSTANTLY (about 10 to 15 an hour really) asking about Wii's. Meanwhile I was the first person to ask about a PS3 since he had opened the store four hours earlier.
Sounds like either the interest isn't there, or nobody actually expects them to be available anyway. More likely the first though.
Sounds like either the interest isn't there, or nobody actually expects them to be available anyway. More likely the first though.
4saken
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arentol said:
More likely the second considering they are still sold out everywhere and selling out. People truly dont expect to get one at this point. One just happened to luckily fall on my lap when i had all but resigned to not being able to get one for months. I suspect many people feel this way.
Until they start selling for less than retail on ebay, i dont see how lack of interest can be a choice.
Lord Nassirbannipal said:
I disagree with some of what you said... You said: "The Wiimote support is just there for the sake of it and dosen't add to the quality of the game." Quick question have you even played the Wii and used the Wiimote on any game? It definately adds to the gameplay whatever way you look at it. I was playing boxing with my friend and we got into the gameplay so much that after we finish the game we were sweating and feeling like we just ran a mile. The wiimote is the perfect controller even my girl friend has mastered it and was kicking my ass in Wii Sports bowling.
Lord Nassirbannipal
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nullzer said:
Yes.
If you're talking about Wii Sports, then yes it does, because the bowling, boxing, etc are designed specifically to be used with the Wiimote, but even in this case, it wears off once you realize that you can sit on the couch, slightly flick the Wiimote, and hit one-handed home runs.
The other games aren't. Wiimote support is just there to be there. Does it provide a different way to play the game that isn't available with other consoles? Yes, it does, however, that doesn't mean that it makes the game any better than it really is. If it's a good game, then it's just a good game, the fact that you flip a remote around to play it instead of using a controller makes no difference.
Let's use an extreme example. Take a game like Turok Evolution, a real crap piece. Would that game be any better if it had Wiimote support? I think not.
MrWizard6600
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Lord Nassirbannipal said:
Innovation > graphical horsepower, in my mind. I apparently dont share this mentallity with PS3 buyers, which is perfectly fine.
your arguement is that ultimatly it doesnt matter, the Wii remote wont make any differance. I beg to differ. anygame that is released for the PS3, may be available in HD, and may have way more polys then the Wii, but most games can be cross platform, even if it has to take a performance hit. As such, any sport game on the PS3, can simply be bettered by the Wii remote. It boils down to, which do you prefer, a max of 480p with low poly caracters, or HD w/ high poly, high shader characters? (PS, does anyone know just how many pipes, or stream processers, a 7800RSX (PS3 graphical core) actually has?)/
If turrok revolution was released, with a working remote, i would have bought one for myself, and encouraged anyone with a supporting platform to buy one. That game could have been so much bettered by a Wii remote.
I do have one complaint about the Wii so far, I found Red steel mildly trickey to aim. the little red dot i got to shoot stuff became a little annoying. the sensitivity needs to be lowered, nothing a patch cant fix, I'm just hoping that patch will be released.
Zelda Twilight princess is awsome, I'm only a few hours in (on a friends game, so i wont get any further then i am now for a while), and I'm hooked. Plan on picking one up sometime early January.
DragonMasterAlex
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MrWizard6600 said:
No, pixel shaders in RSX aren't known but are expected to be probably 16-24. However, it's worth noting that RSX is closer to a 7600GT than a 7800 anything. The fact alone that it's hobbled by a 128 bit memory interface (unlike the 7800's 256 bit) is enough to tell you that RSX ain't all that. Although it's not confirmed as far as I know, it's quite likely that RSX has inherited the 7xxx series' inability to process both HDR and AA at the same time, a known *hardware* issue which even the 7900 series--finished AFTER RSX--is unable to overcome.
When it comes to simple *fun* factor, Wii easily bests both PS3 and Xbox 360. In all likelihood, though, 360 will probably remain the system with the best graphics. PS3 just doesn't have what it takes in the GPU area to best 360 (and I'd say that weight is lent to that theory by the fact that *nvidia* has abandoned the g70 architecture on which RSX is based in favor of the G80 architecture, which bears striking resemblance to the 360's ATI GPU).
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DragonMasterAlex said:
It's got 24 pixel shaders and 8 vertex shaders. The main difference between RSX and a geforce 7800 class card is the memory interface. Plus it's only got half the raster output units. But RSX has more cache than G70. And don't forget the Xenos only has a 128 bit memory interface too. The X360 has a better gpu but the PS3 has a better cpu. I think the hardware is close enough in specs, the graphics potential of games will come down to the skill and effort of the programmers. What's so fun about wii other than the gimmick controller ? Its launch lineup is as weak as the PS3s. Only game that looks remotely good is Zelda TP which looks like a gc title.
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Lord Nassirbannipal said:
Actually, that's only true in some cases. For example, Rayman is *built* around the Wiimote, top to bottom, and the developers have said as much. It's an EXCELLENT game and definitely a must have. Rampage is definitely a game where the Wii controls are "tacked on", but for $29 I can forgive a lot
. If you haven't played Trauma Center on DS, I'd say the Wii version is a must have. Great game, and a lot more fun than you'd think. I *am* a little disappointed that it's more of a "Director's Cut" than a true sequel, but hell, it's launch, what do you expect?In the end, you probably can expect the most unique *exclusives* on Wii, courtesy of the controller. Chances are that 360 and PS3 will share 95% of the exact same library, with little to no graphical difference between them.
DragonMasterAlex
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Stereophile said:
We do NOT know any of the above. You're quoting *GUESSES* from assorted sources, but there's no whitepaper released that details whether RSX has 24 pixel shaders, 8 vertex shaders, nor is there confirmation about the cache being larger.
However, I DO agree with your conclusion that both have virtually identical horsepower and that most games should be comparable. It's safe to say we'll see better textures, AA/AF and probably AI on 360, but we'll likely see better physics on PS3, assuming anyone uses the SPE's to their potential for that. I wouldn't say that PS3 has a better CPU, though, that simply hasn't been proven yet. For an example, we had, for about 4 months, 2 dual CPU Cell based IBM blades here at work that the developers were attempting to use to process voice recognition systems. In the end what we learned is that a dual CPU Core2 based Xeon not only outpaced the dual Cell-based server, it took half the time to develop for with far fewer problems.
Cell is, at this moment, hype and hype alone. I fully expect it to be good for decoding media, but it's highly unlikely that its particular strengths will lend it well to the kind of code that is prevelant in game programming (primarily integer based ops, whereas Cell is primarily good at floating point ops).
With regard to the Wiimote, however, I have to disagree--it's not a gimmick at all, any more than the DS's touch screen is a gimmick (and that dead horse has been disproven long ago). What the Wiimote is is simple: A new way to interact with game software. No more, no less, it's as simple as that. Can that make some games more enjoyable? You bet your ass it can. Wii sports is a *blast*, simple graphics and all, far more so than much nicer *looking* games played with analog sticks.
A "gimmick" in the context of game consoles is some kind of added feature that doesn't impact the gameplay experience. It'd be something like, say, movie playback, music playback, web browsing, that sort of thing. Those things are gimmicks. A new control mechanism is not.
Stereophile
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So when you say RSX is closer to a 7600 than 7800 that's a guess right ?
What is the point of emphasizing the 128 bit memory interface ?
I have to laugh when you say wii is easily the most fun.
Looks like you have no problem stating your opinion as fact.
They could have added that controller to a gamecube and called it a day.
What is the point of emphasizing the 128 bit memory interface ?
I have to laugh when you say wii is easily the most fun.
Looks like you have no problem stating your opinion as fact.
They could have added that controller to a gamecube and called it a day.
VoodooChi|d
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They actually tried that...Stereophile said:They could have added that controller to a gamecube and called it a day.
Rash
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BS,MrWizard6600 said:
FIFA, NHL, BasketBall, F1, Nascar, MotoGP etc all big hitters, are you saying these games are going to be better on Wii?
Tigerwoods: Arguably Depends on personal Preference
NFL: Arguably Depends on personal Preference
DragonMasterAlex said:Actually, that's only true in some cases. For example, Rayman is *built* around the Wiimote, top to bottom, and the developers have said as much. It's an EXCELLENT game and definitely a must have. Rampage is definitely a game where the Wii controls are "tacked on", but for $29 I can forgive a lot
In the end, you probably can expect the most unique *exclusives* on Wii, courtesy of the controller. Chances are that 360 and PS3 will share 95% of the exact same library, with little to no graphical difference between them.
i agree with most of this, and i sure as hell hope that the wii doesnt turn out to be the Minigame Machine before this console's generation is over...hopefully not an overabundance of Rayman:RR, Monkey Ball, and Wii Sports-like games that offer no depth, and only serve to get a bunch of people playing quickly.
Lord Nassirbannipal
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DragonMasterAlex said:
I agree with this to some extent.
As much as I've brought up Nintendo's flagship titles lately, I'm planning to get the Wii late next year or early 2008 specifically for SSBB, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Kirby, and Metroid Prime: Corruption. I think that those games are unique enough without the Wiimote.
4saken
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DragonMasterAlex said:
From the demos already available and upcoming game screens movies, id have to possibly disagree on the 360 ending up with the better graphics of the 2.
I realize it all comes down to a dev teams skill more than likely, but from what im already seeing on the PS3, i have little doubts it will surpass the 360 in terms of graphics very shortly.
But who knows, maybe the 360 will be pushing out even greater things than GoW. Either way they both will be pushing each other to their respective consoles limits. Makes me glad to own them both.
Formula One demo (in progress) made me a believer out of the PS3. Graphics/physics/audio are beyond superb.
Rash
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Yes formula one demo is superb!
I think the ps3 shits all over my 7600gt from a great height, id say the rsx is closer to the 7900 series
I think the ps3 shits all over my 7600gt from a great height, id say the rsx is closer to the 7900 series
I just wanted to point out that this is what killed the Gamecube, and tossed it firmly into third place last gen. Gamecube owners not only preferred Nintendo titles, but ended up buying them to practically the exclusion of everything else. It wasn't profitable to develop for. Nintendo cannot carry the system all by themselves. It didn't work the Gamecube, and it won't work for the Wii.Lord Nassirbannipal said:
Spaceman_Spiff
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MrWizard6600 said:
The more I use the wiimote the more I disagree with you on this one. Its great fun, but its frustrating at times and often I definintely wish I was using a standard controller. Motion sensing is a good idea, but combining it with a standard controller might have been a better bet. The ds touchscreen was often used to quickly find an item on screen or to give analog control, but this can be done much quicker on screen with an analog stick that the wiimote. That's my opinion on it from a bit more extended use.
People calling zelda the greatest thing since sliced bread is absurd- the game hasn't changed in 10 years. Its darn near impossible to hit things quickly with the wiimote (note to developers: use the z trigger, not the b one, to fire a gun) and its a million times easier to use z targeting. Honestly, it feels more like a puzzle game to me than anything else because once you figure out whats going on, and that doesn't take long, the game is stupidly easy. But, I digress.