PS3 - What's going on? Is it already Over?

[Darakian]

*snip*

I think the biggest bit difference in tech demos is that now more people are aware of the ps2 tech demos and all that follows with that. As well as sony having lost a lot of respect over the past few years (root kits, feature cuts on the ps3, etc...). By all accounts sony has done a better job with tech demos this time around, it's just that they are working under a microscope so to speak. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[finalgt]

The last I checked, which was a few hours ago, they were still going for $1200 pretty often. Are all of them? No, but there's too many for all of them to get enough bids, but they're still going for well above retail.

I do agree that paying that much money for a console that you can get for retail price a few months later is the ultimate retardation, but then again, a great portion of the human race is ultimately retarded.

I also remember a time when Tickle Me Elmos were going for $900 a pop, Tamagotchis were going for $500 a pop, etc...I wouldn't use what things are "going for" as an indicator of its quality, or even of its popularity. Especially when a company apparently deliberately cuts shipments to constrain supply and artificially increase demand.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Uhm Hello ? Xenos uses a 128 bit interface too ? There are good reasons consoles don't need the same bandwidth as a PC gpu. It sounds to me like you're just looking for excuses to knock it. Sure it's not as powerful as Xenos but to point out its memory interface as a flaw is a weak argument considering the X360 (The console you proclaimed will have the best graphics this generation) uses 128 bit also.

Defend the wii all you want. I think the controller is a gimmick. It's not cool enough to make me overlook the pathetic hardware. Most of the launch games look worse than gc games. I think the DS stylus is overrated as well. As for adding it to a gc, learn to spot sarcasm.

*plonk*

Yes, I'm aware that Xenos also uses a 128 bit memory interface, and I also agree that, like the RSX, its performance is limited to an extent by that interface. It's not a weak argument, it's a statement of fact--no more, no less. It's fair, however, to also say that 360's design is superior (though clearly not its manufacturing, heh) given that it allows developers to allocate as much or as little memory as they like to GPU functions, which the PS3 cannot do.

You can think the controller is a gimmick and state it publicly until you're blue in the fingertips, but all it does is highlight your failure to understand what a gimmick actually is. When it comes to *game consoles*, a gimmick is a feature that doesn't add to or alter the way games are played. Things like Blu-Ray, HD-DVD addons, movie downloads, etc., are gimmicks. A new control paradigm *isn't*. Even PS3's half-baked ripoff tilt-sensing SixAxis controller can't legitimately be called a gimmick because at least it, unlike the aforementioned features, actually changes gameplay.

No offense, but you're sounding an awful lot like one of those F-word boys.

 

[4saken]

Yes, I'm aware that Xenos also uses a 128 bit memory interface, and I also agree that, like the RSX, its performance is limited to an extent by that interface. It's not a weak argument, it's a statement of fact--no more, no less. It's fair, however, to also say that 360's design is superior (though clearly not its manufacturing, heh) given that it allows developers to allocate as much or as little memory as they like to GPU functions, which the PS3 cannot do.

You can think the controller is a gimmick and state it publicly until you're blue in the fingertips, but all it does is highlight your failure to understand what a gimmick actually is. When it comes to *game consoles*, a gimmick is a feature that doesn't add to or alter the way games are played. Things like Blu-Ray, HD-DVD addons, movie downloads, etc., are gimmicks. A new control paradigm *isn't*. Even PS3's half-baked ripoff tilt-sensing SixAxis controller can't legitimately be called a gimmick because at least it, unlike the aforementioned features, actually changes gameplay.

No offense, but you're sounding an awful lot like one of those F-word boys.

You are the one endlessly feeling the need to defend Nintendo and troll the playstation, judging from your post history. I think you have valid points though. But I think your points are subjective. I think the Wii controller is great for what it does, but its definitely not the next big thing. My inlaws and I had lots of fun playing Wii Sports and Zelda over the thanksgiving holiday. But the grins on their faces were no less when they used the SixAxis controller to steer Ridge Racer 7 and Motorstorm on my PS3 as well. People like ME(not you) like the fact that the PS3 and 360 have media center capabilities. It saves me a HTPC box. My inlaws could tell the difference just watching the included Talladega Nights in 1080p on a 57" TV than watching the normal DVDs. I did them one after another and it was a whoah. So again, a gimmick as you claim is subjective. It's a plus in my book.

I own all 3 new consoles so I'd like to think I have a different view and I find this inane Nintendo vs PS3 bashing both ways to be just plain dumb. When im at home w/o a crowd over, i enjoy my 360 or PS3 more than i do gaming with my Wii. When my inlaws or other family are over and its a buncha people the Wii is a blast too, but when im gaming just for me, i like the competetiveness of FPS games online, racing games online, sports games online. If ppl like one over the other, why is there a need to degrade the other?

Bottom line here is the obvious I think. All three consoles have flaws that detract from them from different gaming crowds. But all three also have major pluses that attract them to certain crowds. Me? I just like to game. The PS3 is going to be a solid/amazing system in the end. I have no doubts about that. I remember the 360 and PS2 getting trashed on launch too, look at them now. There is a place for all three systems this Gen. Its a good time to be a gamer.

 

[Psychotext]

My inlaws could tell the difference just watching the included Talladega Nights in 1080p on a 57" TV than watching the normal DVDs. I did them one after another and it was a whoah. So again, a gimmick as you claim is subjective. It's a plus in my book.

On a 57" TV I should freaking hope so! Plus I'm guessing you didn't show them an upscaled DVD to compare... If you did I'm surprised it was a "woah" moment rather than a "yeah... can see the difference" moment.

 

[4saken]

On a 57" TV I should freaking hope so! Plus I'm guessing you didn't show them an upscaled DVD to compare... If you did I'm surprised it was a "woah" moment rather than a "yeah... can see the difference" moment.

If i had say something like Stargate or the 5th element on blu-ray as opposed to just one movie ATM, i would have done an upscaled dvd version for an apples to apples comparison.

Wife has frozen my allowance after buying a PS3 and a Wii =p

 

[erwos]

On a 57" TV I should freaking hope so! Plus I'm guessing you didn't show them an upscaled DVD to compare... If you did I'm surprised it was a "woah" moment rather than a "yeah... can see the difference" moment.

Upscaled DVDs don't look nearly as good as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Two reasons:
1. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have _much_ better color than DVD.
2. DVDs only have 480p of information on them. You can't just magically extrapolate out 1080p of information from that, even with a really good upscaler.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

You can think the controller is a gimmick and state it publicly until you're blue in the fingertips, but all it does is highlight your failure to understand what a gimmick actually is. When it comes to *game consoles*, a gimmick is a feature that doesn't add to or alter the way games are played. Things like Blu-Ray, HD-DVD addons, movie downloads, etc., are gimmicks. A new control paradigm *isn't*. Even PS3's half-baked ripoff tilt-sensing SixAxis controller can't legitimately be called a gimmick because at least it, unlike the aforementioned features, actually changes gameplay.

A fair enough criticism, but its really largely semantics. I think what he was implying (and its not my post so I dunno exactly) is that its different, but not necessarily any better, and I agree with him on this one to a certain extent. In zelda, for instance, I would consider it gimmicky- you can aim with the remote, but you could also aim the same way with the control stick. Swinging the wii mote isn't analog or motion sensitive (thrust to thrust, move vertically to overhead slash, etc)- you could have exactly the same swordplay funcionality with a single button. The wii mote isn't doing anything new, special, or better here, but a lot of people praise it because its different and quirky. Its distracting from the real funcionality, so in that sense it is a gimmick.

Now, zelda is obviously not the best example for how the wii should work, but people are lauding (and buying) it so heavily that its more than fair to base judgement of the wii largely off that game. Zelda wasn't designed at all with the controls in mind, they were really just tacked on. For the wii mote to be fully analog or detect what kind of swing was being done would have been a complete redesign of all the swordplay, which clearly wasn't gonna happen.

Wii sports is a better example but its so simplistic that its hard to base any real arguments off of it. Honestly, at this point I would agree with him calling it a gimmick, based on the way developers have utilized it to date. We know it works, and clearly you could do some great things with it, but they just haven't yet.

 

[Psychotext]

Upscaled DVDs don't look nearly as good as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Two reasons:
1. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have _much_ better color than DVD.
2. DVDs only have 480p of information on them. You can't just magically extrapolate out 1080p of information from that, even with a really good upscaler.

Oh I agree... but then having seen both I wouldn't describe it as a WOAH moment. There's certainly an improvement though. Oh, and I live in PAL land... colour is pretty much perfect on our DVDs already.

 

[Defective]

TIE Fighter 2 for the win.... (and I mean an actual TF2, with the same sort of fun storyline as the original)

Sony? Microsoft? Nintendo? are you listening? Give us our damn space flight sim! Resurrect Freespace or TIE Fighter . . . please? I'll buy whatever system . . . and send candy . . . and puppies . . . and maybe a cat.

 

[Rash]

upscaling is very good, but it aint a patch on the real thing

 

[4saken]

Sony? Microsoft? Nintendo? are you listening? Give us our damn space flight sim! Resurrect Freespace or TIE Fighter . . . please? I'll buy whatever system . . . and send candy . . . and puppies . . . and maybe a cat.

Indeed if the 360 or PS3 came out with a Modern Tie Fighter game with solid online play, that might be one of the greatest things ever.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Indeed if the 360 or PS3 came out with a Modern Tie Fighter game with solid online play, that might be one of the greatest things ever.

Crimson skies was a really fun dogfighting game- obviously not a space sim but the gameplay was excellent.

 

[darkangelamd]

Now, zelda is obviously not the best example for how the wii should work, but people are lauding (and buying) it so heavily that its more than fair to base judgement of the wii largely off that game. Zelda wasn't designed at all with the controls in mind, they were really just tacked on. For the wii mote to be fully analog or detect what kind of swing was being done would have been a complete redesign of all the swordplay, which clearly wasn't gonna happen.

Then the ps3 must be crap as well, because as far as I can tell, the current ps3 games aren't very good. They just tacked the wii controls on zelda, but you knew that.

At least zelda is a good game, even if the controls aren't exactly what you want apparently. I like the wii controls in zelda, for one I think it's easier to use the bow, esp. on horseback, would it be impossible on a normal controller, no of course not. And you can run and cut the grass, something you couldn't before, yes you could work that out on a controller, but just sayin.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Then the ps3 must be crap as well, because as far as I can tell, the current ps3 games aren't very good. They just tacked the wii controls on zelda, but you knew that.

At least zelda is a good game, even if the controls aren't exactly what you want apparently. I like the wii controls in zelda, for one I think it's easier to use the bow, esp. on horseback, would it be impossible on a normal controller, no of course not. And you can run and cut the grass, something you couldn't before, yes you could work that out on a controller, but just sayin.

I was responding to DragonMasterAlex's post where he said the controller was not a gimmick, which by his definition "is a feature that doesn't add to or alter the way games are played." He called it a "new control paradigm" and I disagreed with that point based on the current wii mote implementation. I never said anything about the overall quality of the game and in fact my entire post was full of examples of how the wii mote could be used in such a manner while pointing out that it isn't being used like that currently.

 

[darkangelamd]

I was responding to DragonMasterAlex's post where he said the controller was not a gimmick, which by his definition "is a feature that doesn't add to or alter the way games are played." He called it a "new control paradigm" and I disagreed with that point based on the current wii mote implementation. I never said anything about the overall quality of the game and in fact my entire post was full of examples of how the wii mote could be used in such a manner while pointing out that it isn't being used like that currently.

And so launch titles make full use of any consoles ability, much like the ps3 is being made full use of right?

It could be, it will be, zelda is a gamecube game with tack on wii controls, again we all know that. Trauma center is a game which would be impossible to make on another system.

Plus it does alter the way the game is played, the bow for example, again much easier to use on horseback. It's subtle, but at least it's there, unlike the ps3's improved graphics over the 360.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

And so launch titles make full use of any consoles ability, much like the ps3 is being made full use of right?

It could be, it will be, zelda is a gamecube game with tack on wii controls, again we all know that. Trauma center is a game which would be impossible to make on another system.

Plus it does alter the way the game is played, the bow for example, again much easier to use on horseback. It's subtle, but at least it's there, unlike the ps3's improved graphics over the 360.

Personally, I find the bow far more difficult to aim with the wii mote. The difference between this and ps3 is that the formula is proven to work, and we all know that it will look better a year from now and even better a year after that. We don't definitively know that the wii mote can work as well as we hope it can (you seem a little aggressive so let me honestly say that I fully hope it works as I imagine it could).

Tramua center is a better example, but it feels unfinished- there just seem like obvious things they could have done a lot better. These are launch titles, I get that, but on so many of them it seems like "hey look at the controls...and just ignore everything else."

The problem I see is that the games need to be fundamentally built from the ground up- ports really don't work quite well. They'll be great games like that, I just question whether or not there will be enough to make it mainstream. I don't see it overtaking the ps3 or xbox 360 for this reason- it really is a completely different market. Also, I'm not sold on it signaling a complete design shift that will continue into the next generation.

 

[darkangelamd]

Personally, I find the bow far more difficult to aim with the wii mote. The difference between this and ps3 is that the formula is proven to work, and we all know that it will look better a year from now and even better a year after that. We don't definitively know that the wii mote can work as well as we hope it can (you seem a little aggressive so let me honestly say that I fully hope it works as I imagine it could).

Tramua center is a better example, but it feels unfinished- there just seem like obvious things they could have done a lot better. These are launch titles, I get that, but on so many of them it seems like "hey look at the controls...and just ignore everything else."

The problem I see is that the games need to be fundamentally built from the ground up- ports really don't work quite well. They'll be great games like that, I just question whether or not there will be enough to make it mainstream. I don't see it overtaking the ps3 or xbox 360 for this reason- it really is a completely different market. Also, I'm not sold on it signaling a complete design shift that will continue into the next generation.

If the wii continues to sell as well as it has been, and looks to continue to do, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't continue on with a similar approach next generation. I don't think anyone else is planning to make a DS like device, but I think it would be pretty hardpressed to say that the DS is a failure. Dosen't the ps3 have a motion sensing controller?

If Nintendo is saying "hey look at the controls, just ignore everything else", then what is Sony saying, "hey just ignore everything we've been saying for the past 3 years, here go buy some blueray discs we need the help, oh yeah, super cell computer baby"?

It's a completely different market, bingo. They should have called the wii, DS Home, and been done with it.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

It's a completely different market, bingo. They should have called the wii, DS Home, and been done with it.

Exactly, which is why I'm not 100% convinced it will work. They're the heavy hitters in the handheld market and always will be. I'm sure a lot of people bought the ds moreso because it was the next nintendo handheld and not because it had dual touch screens. They can sell ds games that don't make effective use of the touch screen and still do ok because there isn't much competition, but I don't see wii games that don't effectively use the wii mote doing the same thing.

 

[Rocketpig]

This exact post can be related to the next guy's negative comments about square that you back up. You don't like square? Guess what, the majority of gamers do.

I laughed because it's true. I never said Square should start catering to me or that their games are crap. In fact, I've enjoyed more than my fair share of FF games.

 

[Martyr]

Exactly, which is why I'm not 100% convinced it will work. They're the heavy hitters in the handheld market and always will be. I'm sure a lot of people bought the ds moreso because it was the next nintendo handheld and not because it had dual touch screens. They can sell ds games that don't make effective use of the touch screen and still do ok because there isn't much competition, but I don't see wii games that don't effectively use the wii mote doing the same thing.

not really. the psp had much more hype and much better launch than the ds. but after awhile, the ds had more and more fun games, and the psp had .....

and then look at the ds lite launch.