President Scales Back NSA Program

The problem is that they can deem that you are a terrorist and hold you indefinitely as an American citizen without due process and without notifying your next of kin or giving you a phone call, so one day you are doing your regular routine and the next you just disappeared off the face of the planet as far as everyone knows.
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Untrue, this might be what someone has told you but it is not true.
 
Once you give a government a power over anything, its very difficult to take it away. The founding fathers understood that, and history has proven it, so I don't know why people still forget it.
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Not exactly, the process to repeal an amendment is exactly the same as the process to put that amendment in place to begin with.
 
Except almost all of the guys in there have been cleared of having an association with terrorism at all. Oops.
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Where is the list?

Who says so?
 
Saist said:
... at the risk of being way too political.

Obama's a liberal democrat. They live for this kind of big-brother watchdogging. Seriously, go read Orwell's 1984 just to get an idea of what Obama and his political party would love to do to America.
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I guess "liberal" and "democrat" have a completely different meaning over there. That's scary. Also sad.
 
Question is, even if they said they did something we can all agree on, can we even trust them in first place? Probably not.

At this point I would trust a Taliban member telling me he wont kill me more than anything the US government says.
 
Maybe some day the younger generation will wake up and see that the US Government is not looking out for any of us. Im getting tired of going to Tea party rallies, libertarian and conservative meetings, taking classes on the constitution, I rarely see anyone there under 30 getting involved. The youth are more concerned with their social media status, and partying, than educating themselves on what our government is doing to us.
 
dgz said:
I guess "liberal" and "democrat" have a completely different meaning over there. That's scary. Also sad.
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Hah, yea..........Not to mention the fact that it was the Republicans (with very strong support from the Dems) who instituted the "Patriot" Act to begin with. Anyone who really thinks there's a partisan difference in the government's desires to monitor everything we do...............then please PM me for a beautiful beach front lot in Kansas. I'll give you a great price...
 
jflail2 said:
Hah, yea..........Not to mention the fact that it was the Republicans (with very strong support from the Dems) who instituted the "Patriot" Act to begin with. Anyone who really thinks there's a partisan difference in the government's desires to monitor everything we do...............then please PM me for a beautiful beach front lot in Kansas. I'll give you a great price...
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It's all populist and collectivist agenda. It doesn't matter what party it is associated with, as a political party only has loose ties with a political ideology.
 
cptnjarhead said:
Maybe some day the younger generation will wake up and see that the US Government is not looking out for any of us. Im getting tired of going to Tea party rallies, libertarian and conservative meetings, taking classes on the constitution, I rarely see anyone there under 30 getting involved. The youth are more concerned with their social media status, and partying, than educating themselves on what our government is doing to us.
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Don't give up, and do not despair, because that's what they want.

I think a lot of us are like that when we are young, I know I was. It wasn't until I joined the Navy and grew up that I realized what I had been fed almost my entire life was a heaping pile of horse manure.
 
mavrocket said:
Don't give up, and do not despair, because that's what they want.

I think a lot of us are like that when we are young, I know I was. It wasn't until I joined the Navy and grew up that I realized what I had been fed almost my entire life was a heaping pile of horse manure.
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Not giving up... ex-marines are way to stubborn for that... :D
Just getting tired... but you are correct, being young makes you see what you want to see, or... what THEY! want you see.
Ive been called a Racist, Nazi homophobe and everything else under the sun, all because i want everyone to be responsible for their own actions. It gets old, but it aint over till the fat lady sings.
 
They can't scale back.

If they do then Snowden would in fact be a whistle blower as he report an abuse of power possibly to the point of illegality.
 
"the folks in the NSA are our friends and our family"
makes you feel warm and fuzzy
 
cptnjarhead said:
Maybe some day the younger generation will wake up and see that the US Government is not looking out for any of us. Im getting tired of going to Tea party rallies, libertarian and conservative meetings, taking classes on the constitution, I rarely see anyone there under 30 getting involved. The youth are more concerned with their social media status, and partying, than educating themselves on what our government is doing to us.
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Or they know the system can't be saved.
 
The USA government is crazy and I think most the people in the usa are well won't say. Fact is Snowden get's in trouble because he simply told the masses of ignorant people what the government is doing. A sane person would think that the people of the USA would wake up and impeach the president, and kick out it's political leaders and replace them. But nope not in America they somehow convince the general population that they are good and what snowden told them made him a bad guy to reveal information of how the government breaks laws and the constitution. The USA government will just mock up another terror attack and say see we need to monitor everyone because you or you neighbor could or are terrorists ! What a joke
 
aardvark sandwich said:
Or they know the system can't be saved.
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the "system" is made up of elected officials. Just need to get small government constitutional conservatives in there to reboot the system. Then in the following elections, mix in libertarians to scale back the government regulations even more, while still maintaining the fiscal conservative principals that will keep our economy in check.
that is the real bipartisan leadership, not republicans and democrats working together to stay in power, while eroding the constitution every day.
 
libertarianism still relies on democracy, which in turn relies on initiating violence on others.

/market anarchism plug here
 
aardvark sandwich said:
libertarianism still relies on democracy, which in turn relies on initiating violence on others.

/market anarchism plug here
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images
 
Red Squirrel said:
Question is, even if they said they did something we can all agree on, can we even trust them in first place? Probably not.

At this point I would trust a Taliban member telling me he wont kill me more than anything the US government says.
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Really? You would trust a terrorist determined to kill as many people as possible over the US government? You need to stop posting nonsense. If you have really experienced the horrors of terrorism, you will not be saying all this crap.
 
The govt broke multiple laws, which they admitted, and did all kinds of illegal activities not only towards its own citizens, but foreign individuals and govts too.

Repercussions / punishments / accountability - None.
 
cptnjarhead said:
Not giving up... ex-marines are way to stubborn for that... :D
Just getting tired... but you are correct, being young makes you see what you want to see, or... what THEY! want you see.
Ive been called a Racist, Nazi homophobe and everything else under the sun, all because i want everyone to be responsible for their own actions. It gets old, but it aint over till the fat lady sings.
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Whoa Whoa, Calm down you racist, Nazi, homophobe. I will never be accountable for my own actions. ANARCHY!

/s
:D
 
cptnjarhead said:
i disagree, most libertarians want self regulation, not mob rule.
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self rule can't exist when you give power to a superior via voting.

the dude who gets the button pressed next to his name the most times has the right to rule you.
 
OK, Abditive and mavrocket. This might shed new light on what you think about Gitmo right now.

Posted by Mavrocket;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13184845

First I'll point out the date of the article. 25 April 2011, so getting close to two years old, still.

...are assessments of all 780 people ever held at the facility.
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Ever held at Gitmo, not currently, but ever as in the complete history of all detainees.

They show that about 220 were classed as dangerous terrorists, but 150 were innocent Afghans and Pakistanis.
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Another 380 detainees were deemed to be low-ranking guerrillas.
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We do put even the foot soldiers in POW camps so we would need to focus on the 150 innocents.

There are now just under 180 detainees at the US naval base in Cuba.
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As of December 2013, 155 detainees remain at Guantanamo.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees

Now, what does 220+380+150 come to? looks like 750 which leaves 30 out there unaccounted for, they lost a few or something.

Anyway, so in the entire history of Guantonamo they have had about 780 prisoners/detainees, whatever, about 150 were innocent, but that isn't most, we could call it many though. The article spends some time talking about something like 5 guys who were held for perhaps unreasonable reasons and a couple for possibly unreasonable amounts of time given innocence, but what the article doesn't actually say is if any of the 150 actually remained in custody at the time of the article. It doesn't say that, but it does allude to it doesn't it?

The writer wants the reader to be lazy and not read what he has actually written cause he want's people to say things like mavrocket did. He wants people to believe that most of the people still in Gitmo are innocent.

What is really keeping Gitmo open is lawyers filing documents in an attempt to make money from the feds by having trials moved to US Courts as opposed to military tribunals trying these guys under the rules of war which would be cheaper and probably more just, but there sure won't be a lawyer from Nebraska making any money out of it.
 
Good article Abditive, but you know me, I am a numbers and details guy. It's the only way to have a chance in keeping what the reports say in perspective.

86 of the camp's 166 detainees,
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he United States has since released 31 detainees to their home countries and another 40 to countries that were not their homelands
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31+40 = 71, 166-71=105 so I think I get 105 current detainees and 86 of them have been cleared for release but can't yet because of "diplomatic hurdles", their own countries don't want them and no one else will take them either.

Of course the rest of the math is 105-86 leaves what, 19 who must have been very bad little boys and are really fucked. These must be the ones that are awaiting trial for some serious shit indeed.
 
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