President Scales Back NSA Program

Mainly because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
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Really dragonrage?

I've actually pretty much posted by Resume here along with much of my life in order to allow people to put my comments into perspective, to see where I am coming from so to speak.

But since you think I don't have a fuckin' clue, please enlighten us as to your qualifications if you will.
 
BTW, you could be a truck driver from Kentucky for all I care, we do need truck drivers, not so sure about Kentucky, but yea, I am sure we need truck drivers.

So all I am saying is, why is it you know so much more then I given my 30+ years of real experience on much of this?
 
lcpiper said:
Ahh but no one is saying there is even one innocent left in Gitmo, that would be the point I was making.
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dem13-infographic-gitmo-v02-1.png
 
lcpiper said:
OK, Abditive and mavrocket. This might shed new light on what you think about Gitmo right now.

Posted by Mavrocket;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13184845

First I'll point out the date of the article. 25 April 2011, so getting close to two years old, still.

Ever held at Gitmo, not currently, but ever as in the complete history of all detainees.


We do put even the foot soldiers in POW camps so we would need to focus on the 150 innocents.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees

Now, what does 220+380+150 come to? looks like 750 which leaves 30 out there unaccounted for, they lost a few or something.

Anyway, so in the entire history of Guantonamo they have had about 780 prisoners/detainees, whatever, about 150 were innocent, but that isn't most, we could call it many though. The article spends some time talking about something like 5 guys who were held for perhaps unreasonable reasons and a couple for possibly unreasonable amounts of time given innocence, but what the article doesn't actually say is if any of the 150 actually remained in custody at the time of the article. It doesn't say that, but it does allude to it doesn't it?

The writer wants the reader to be lazy and not read what he has actually written cause he want's people to say things like mavrocket did. He wants people to believe that most of the people still in Gitmo are innocent.

What is really keeping Gitmo open is lawyers filing documents in an attempt to make money from the feds by having trials moved to US Courts as opposed to military tribunals trying these guys under the rules of war which would be cheaper and probably more just, but there sure won't be a lawyer from Nebraska making any money out of it.
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Dude! That wasn't me!

It was maverikv...
 
lcpiper said:
Where is the list?

Who says so?
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The same government that detains them wouldn't release a list of their names, former active-duty Lieutenant Commander Mathew Diaz sacrificed his career and released the names. He served a 6 month jail sentence, was disbarred, and discharged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Diaz

Watch: "The Guantanamo Trap | Official Trailer ".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIXff8ZgFlQ

/Nobody tortured anyone at Guantanamo, just like nobody ever collected domestic data, or lied to congress about it.
 
I only need this;
https://www.aclu.org/files/imce_images/dem13-infographic-gitmo-v02-1.png

and this;
https://www.aclu.org/files/imce_images/dem13-infographic-gitmo-v02-1.png

532+89 = 621
779-621=158 current detainees as of January one year ago right?

The Kafka Article was April 25, 2013 so about 8 months ago. Either way it changes nothing, nothing says there are any innocent detainees remaining at gitmo, and it looks like 86 are cleared to be released if they can just get someone to let them into their country. The rest are probably awaiting trial. Do you see more to this?
 
lcpiper said:
86 are cleared to be released if they can just get someone to let them into their country[/COLOR]. The rest are probably awaiting trial. Do you see more to this?
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So there are innocent people still in Gitmo. I got it, thanks.
 
/Nobody tortured anyone at Guantanamo, just like nobody ever collected domestic data, or lied to congress about it.
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I never said they didn't torture anyone.

And what is domestic data? Is that data collected on US Person's and does a non-US Person on US soil count?
 
There are no protections or distinctions between domestic and foreign, only between Us and non-US Persons.
 
By MrCrispy;
The govt broke multiple laws, which they admitted, and did all kinds of illegal activities not only towards its own citizens, but foreign individuals and govts too.
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Now come on, it's not illegal to spy on foreigners, our laws derive their power from the Constitution, the Constitution places no protections on foreigners, your lost here man.

Then this,
The govt broke multiple laws, which they admitted,
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The Government didn't really break any laws did they? Either a person who works for the government did it, perhaps under the cover of the government's power, but a person did it. For the government to do it, it would have to be something that an employee was illegally directed to do. It would be in writing, like a memo. So what laws are we talking about, what admissions were made?
 
lcpiper said:
Really dragonrage?

I've actually pretty much posted by Resume here along with much of my life in order to allow people to put my comments into perspective, to see where I am coming from so to speak.

But since you think I don't have a fuckin' clue, please enlighten us as to your qualifications if you will.
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You seem to think that military experience (read: brainwashing) gives you credence when it comes to making laws, deciding what's moral, and oppressing people. In actuality, you were (are?) employed by the government of a corrupt country (which WAS at one time the best country in the world) to kill people. From the things you say here, you seem to be a rather brutish individual, the typical soldier. Easily used for the benefit of the oligarchy that controls our country today.

You can't and don't try to prove that things like NSA spying are helpful - you try to defend them by claiming it's not illegal, or that it's been going on forever, or that it's unlikely to affect us (actually, if you remember, you outright lied by telling someone in absolute terms that this won't affect them). You are amazing at avoiding the truth and giving us stupid propaganda as a misdirection. The argument is stacked in favor of the government, because they have the data, not the people. They can claim as much as they want that their programs have prevented terror - but the great thing is when they get caught in that lie (WHICH HAPPENED RECENTLY), you then know for a fact that they're never going to tell you the truth. If the truth were something they were going to tell us, they wouldn't be bullshitting us to begin with.

You seem unaware of the downsides of democracy (we have a republic yes, but the two are the same in more ways than not). First of all, we're not subjects of the government. The government works for us and is here to facilitate trade. It does not own us or the work that we do. It has no right to tell us how to live our lives as long as we're not preventing others from living theirs. And importantly, government and citizens need to realize that majority rule can be just as oppressive as a monarchy. You seem to be very invested in the idea that normal citizens should not have much, if any, freedom.

You: Government dog. You are absolutely insane. Seriously.
 
Oh, and the 92% of the prisoners who weren't Al-Qaeda fighters.

Al-Qaeda was not the only problem, and not everyone imprisoned was done so for violent acts, some were non-violent supporters who provided tangible aid to them. Like always, the numbers are too easy to manipulate and usually are.

I think the costs of running Gitmo are exaggerated. It looks to me like they included the costs of running the naval base which has been there since 1903 and would certainly cost some money as it always has.
 
dandragonrage said:
In actuality, you were (are?) employed by the government of a corrupt country (which WAS at one time the best country in the world) to kill people. From the things you say here, you seem to be a rather brutish individual, the typical soldier.
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The country is not corrupt, the government is, and the country is still the best in the world.

There are people who are willing to put there lives on the line for people like you, and you reward their service with this kind of spiteful, disgraceful and pathetic shit? You should be ashamed of yourself for writing what you did.
 
And something else dandragonage, try visiting a VA Home and saying what you posted (I bet you wouldn't dare utter those words without anonymity), or better yet actually thank them for their service.
 
Typical Obama. This is a cover up! Nothing is changing, in fact they are redoubling their efforts Alex Jones just told me.
 
mavrocket said:
The country is not corrupt, the government is, and the country is still the best in the world.
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I believe the entire planet is the best of the planet. I mean, I don't like to think I'm better than other humans just because of where I live. I mean, I'd hate to be an ignorant fucker.

I think globally though. You know, 'divide and conquer' and all that shit. Humanity needs to grow up. We laugh at gangs fighting over colors or sides of town they live on but then turn around and say "My country is the best because (because...) it is".

Grow the fuck up yourself. Start thinking outside the box that was given you in elementary.
 
Abditive said:
I believe the entire planet is the best of the planet. I mean, I don't like to think I'm better than other humans just because of where I live. I mean, I'd hate to be an ignorant fucker.

I think globally though. You know, 'divide and conquer' and all that shit. Humanity needs to grow up. We laugh at gangs fighting over colors or sides of town they live on but then turn around and say "My country is the best because (because...) it is".

Grow the fuck up yourself. Start thinking outside the box that was given you in elementary.
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Some parts of the planet are shitty.
 
Which is good, because the rest of the world doesn't think outside the bun either.

You know your beliefs make you think you are better than other people.
 
Abditive said:
Not the planet, people. However shitty people are everywhere though. We need to fix humanity by helping it, not bombing the shitty parts into something else, or worse.
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In order to change humanity, it would need to become something else.

I say we bomb the shitty parts and put in strip malls.
 
Fitting, since Starbucks tastes similar to the burnt corpses we will bulldoze to put in these strip malls.
 
mavrocket said:
The millions of veterans across the US and I would take offense to that statement.

Just in case you need a refresher on how many of us there are: http://www.va.gov/vetdata/Veteran_Population.asp

Now, please pull your head out of your ass and grow up.
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I don't give a fuck if you're offended any more than you give a fuck if I'm offended by your response which is childish and full of the same "HOW DARE YOU NOT SAY WE'RE NUMBER ONE" like it even fucking matters.

Guess what dude.

People in other countries are worth just as much as you, and taking part in military action is NOT automatically make you some sort of hero "because I served my country." Well, you know what? Sometimes our country, like all countries, is fucking wrong. And often times the other guy is probably thinking he's just serving his country, too. For the most part, you're all serving the needs of some rich assholes who play you like chess pieces to their gain and only their gain.

You're the one who needs to grow up and realize that the entire world is important, and that war only causes war. Sometimes defense is necessary yes, but if you stand behind any of our military action in the past couple decades, then you're something else.

I stand behind what I said 100% and I'm glad it offended you.
 
Abditive said:
I've said the same thing (well similar; crazy) awhile back about icpiper. The way he justifies so much wrong doing is super scary IMO.
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I said the exact same thing about him. I hate seeing his username pop up in a thread because I know that whatever he posts is just going to piss me off.
 
dandragonrage said:
You're the one who needs to grow up and realize that the entire world is important, and that war only causes war. Sometimes defense is necessary yes, but if you stand behind any of our military action in the past couple decades, then you're something else.

I stand behind what I said 100% and I'm glad it offended you.
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Nationalism is a funny thing, isn't it?
 
You seem unaware of the downsides of democracy (we have a republic yes, but the two are the same in more ways than not). First of all, we're not subjects of the government. The government works for us and is here to facilitate trade. It does not own us or the work that we do. It has no right to tell us how to live our lives as long as we're not preventing others from living theirs. And importantly, government and citizens need to realize that majority rule can be just as oppressive as a monarchy. You seem to be very invested in the idea that normal citizens should not have much, if any, freedom.
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Noo, first off, you should be well informed about me. I served 16 years, almost a 3rd in South Korea doing Military Intelligence, it was real spooky stuff, I listened to RADARs. You ever listen to a RADAR? It's so interesting ... beep.... beep beep......beep......beep beep....
I never went to war while I was on active duty, I wasn't in any of the outfits deployed to the little ones in Panama and Granada and when the 1st Gulf War happened my Unit wasn't deployed then either. I retired in '98 before 9/11 and the start of Afghanistan and Iraq, but I did wind up taking a job to work in Iraq for a year and I got to see some things first hand there.

You see me as brainwashed, I had a brain before I entered service at 21 years of age after 3 years of college. No one washed it. Even though I am retired from the Army and work as a contractor I won't take a Government Service job, 16 years of them telling me what I have to do all the time was enough for me. Sometimes, even as a contractor some thing wind me up because I can feel them trying to push us around and I sometimes get cranky about it, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I still don't like it when it happens.

I do value my freedoms, but what I think you see is me defending the government, I am not. I am not defending the Administration, I didn't vote for Obama and I'll be glad when he is out. I am not really defending either party, although I typically vote republican, it's just because I am a lazy voter and I hope in some way I am voting for smaller government.

You can't and don't try to prove that things like NSA spying are helpful -
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There is a good reason here, I do hold a clearance, there are things I can't talk about and lines I can't cross. Sometimes I do leave bread crumbs for the intuitive, but about all I can say is what I have said before, this thing about the NSA and the internet, it makes up so little of what the NSA actually listens to and does.

If a mouse in Tibet farted an electronic fart, the NSA would be recording it to see just how loud the fart was, what frequency the fart was. Could we uniquely identify the same mouse again by the parameters of the fart. Now replace fart with radio, RADAR, missile, rocket, satellite, lunar module, the electronic emissions of night vision goggles, the signals that leak from anything, everything in every foreign country, military, embassy, school, institution, organization. And it's all done to learn what other people are trying to do that could threaten ourselves or our allies. We listen to our allies as you've learned, but not all of our allies get along with each other and sometimes we have to get between them to keep things civil. When Russian attacked Ukraine a few years back it was the US that got between them, talked the Russian's into backing off. Any of you give our Government any credit for saving any lives over that one? You even give it a thought? Maybe we saved a few innocent women and children with that one you think?

So if you say I am biased I would have to agree, brainwashed? not so much. I don't work for the government though as a contractor I am sure you don't see the distinction. But I am not allowed to even give the impression that I work for anyone other then my company which has a contract to supply specific services to the government, that's all. Some contractors clean bathrooms, I do virtualization in a sterile lab for per-production engineering support.

If you asked me what one thing I most want you to believe out of all the things I say.
I'd say "I want people to hold the media to the same standards you hold our government to".
I'd say "I want you to really read what they are saying and check to see if it's true".

If I can get people to do that then that would be enough. Don't read the headline, read the facts and not the opinion. If the facts don't fit then something stinks and someone is trying to play you for a fool.

I want you to challenge things, and the thing I want you to challenge fist is the story teller.
 
lcpiper, you've still got a fundamentally flawed understanding here. You need to remember first that the government and military exist to protect the very things the NSA is taking away from us. Society doesn't exist to protect the military or the government. The government and the military exist to protect us. And no, don't start bullshitting how this is protecting us. And don't tell us about the lives we're saving over there until we actually start saving them and not killing innocents with drones.

Also, I will again point out that your information is simply bullshit. You've already parroted the NSA's claim that they haven't taken information on American citizens. We do not need to analyze anything beyond this to know you're just another propaganda machine.

I'm glad you didn't vote for Obumma, but then you went and told us the 100%-obvious fact that you vote Republican, which is JUST AS BAD if not worse (potentially worse because most Republicans get butthurt and vindictive over not getting their way more than any other party) and that does NOT make you look better.

Nobody intelligent votes D or R more than once in a great while when an 'independent' or free-thinking candidate shows up - but party leadership in both parties won't let people get far without making sure they are first able to brainwash the candidate. Democrats and Republicans are two big political machines and all the people responsible for both are complete dipshits. I voted for Gary Johnson.
 
I believe the entire planet is the best of the planet. I mean, I don't like to think I'm better than other humans just because of where I live. I mean, I'd hate to be an ignorant fucker.
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Abditive, I'm not better then you or aborigine from New Guinea or wherever there are still aborigines. But man, there are many parts of the world where ignorance must be an art form. There is a difference between some guy living in the country cause he want's to keep to himself and entire tribes of people who have been sheltered from all advances of the last century, or longer, but nothing is wrong with either of these.

But there is something else in the world, a different kind of ignorance, it's like that redneck ignorance where someone is actually proud of not having one clue in their head and is a mean bastard on top of it all. And what is worse, there are people who will try and harness the power of this mean spirited ignorance and use it as a weapon.

Shit, anyway, I just want people to stop swallowing the Blue Pill just because someone promised you steak.
 
You need to remember first that the government and military exist to protect the very things the NSA is taking away from us.
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But they aren't, I tell you they aren't, I show you they aren't, I show you where the story writers lie and you won't let go of the lie. At least go back and read and challenge it. man you don't get it either.

At least open your mind up long enough to look for yourself and actually read what I have said. I am not trying to protect the NSA, I am trying to protect you from the lying reporters that you continue to take at face value.
 
If even 1 American is harmed overseas, usually while engaging in questionable activities, we as a country are up in arms and our govt considers it an attack on the country.

Yet detaining and torturing hundreds of innocent civilians for decades, without accusation, let alone trial or conviction, is now somehow deemed acceptable because we also captured some guilty people???

How would you react if the rest of the world started capturing random American tourists and mercenaries who are definitely criminals?

The most shameful thing about today is the way media is covering the story as some massive overhaul by Obama. I used to like the guy at some point, now he's a liar and all he does is make speeches.
 
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