President Scales Back NSA Program

cptnjarhead said:
Maybe some day the younger generation will wake up and see that the US Government is not looking out for any of us. Im getting tired of going to Tea party rallies, libertarian and conservative meetings, taking classes on the constitution, I rarely see anyone there under 30 getting involved. The youth are more concerned with their social media status, and partying, than educating themselves on what our government is doing to us.
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This country was bought and sold way before I was born. The transaction is already done and the return period has long since passed. I don't get your anger with young people, it's kinda like if you went into the middle of your own living room, revealed your bowel, and then get upset at Stanley Steemer because they can't get the stain out. You can blame the "younger generation" all you want, but we didn't create the mess, why do you look at us to clean it up?

You know, for all the talk from the Republicans (and Democrats) about taking responsibility for your actions, they sure seem quick to want to push what they sowed off on someone else. As far as I'm concerned, you (as the older generations) broke it, it's up to you to own it.
 
Yet detaining and torturing hundreds of innocent civilians for decades, without accusation
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Why over the top, they said as many as what, 150 were detained but innocent, how many innocent people are detained by cops every year in the US? That article didn't say how long the innocents were detained, only that out of the 750+ detainees, some were innocent. It also didn't lay out how long each one was kept once they were determined innocent but they had the data to figure it out. Instead they just follow it up with a couple of examples of what they can list as the most extreme examples and even then there is more then enough room to wonder if they are telling the whole story because of how conspicuously they keep leaving out important little details.

So go back and read, go back and challenge it again. Go see for yourself and come back after actually reading the article objectively and show me I am wrong.
 
lcpiper said:
Why over the top, they said as many as what, 150 were detained but innocent, how many innocent people are detained by cops every year in the US? That article didn't say how long the innocents were detained, only that out of the 750+ detainees, some were innocent. It also didn't lay out how long each one was kept once they were determined innocent but they had the data to figure it out. Instead they just follow it up with a couple of examples of what they can list as the most extreme examples and even then there is more then enough room to wonder if they are telling the whole story because of how conspicuously they keep leaving out important little details.

So go back and read, go back and challenge it again. Go see for yourself and come back after actually reading the article objectively and show me I am wrong.
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It's not over the top. Just to give on recent example - we know of force feeding of prisoners who were on hunger strike because it was the only means left. Doctors said they were forced to feed them with tubes larger than needed, that it went against their ethics and was torture.

And honestly, do you think anyone will give the benefit of the doubt to the US govt?
 
On December 18, the President’s Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies released its report entitled “Liberty and Security in a Changing World.” The comprehensive report, unclassified in its entirety, sets forth forty-six recommendations designed to protect national security and advance our foreign policy while respecting our longstanding commitment to privacy and civil liberties. The Review Group’s product recognizes the need to maintain the public trust – including the trust of our friends and allies abroad – and proposes steps to reduce the risk of unauthorized disclosures.

In particular, the report highlights the need to develop principles designed to create sturdy foundations for the future, safeguarding liberty and security amidst a changing world. The recommendations emphasize risk management and the need to balance a wide range of potential consequences, including both costs and benefits, in considering potential reforms.

Continued @ http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/12/18/liberty-and-security-changing-world
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The final report, http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/2013-12-12_rg_final_report.pdf

NSA believes that on at least a few occasions, information derived from the section 215 bulk telephony meta-data program has contributed to its efforts to prevent possible terrorist attacks, either in the United States or somewhere else in the world. More often, negative results from section 215 queries have helped to alleviate concern that particular terrorist suspects are in contact with co-conspirators in the United States. Our review suggests that the information contributed to terrorist investigations by the use of section 215 telephony meta-data was not essential to preventing attacks and could readily have been obtained in a timely manner using conventional section 215 orders.
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maverikv said:
Who's heads would you like to roll? ..... What time period should they hop in their time machine and go back to in order to fire people?
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How about all of them? "Fire" the ones currently employed. Place criminal charges against everyone involved without restriction as to timeline.

Statute of limitations does not apply since the limitation period begins when the plaintiff’s cause of action accrues or is made to be aware of the injury that might have happened a long time ago (e.g., asbestos injury).
 
canna said:
This country was bought and sold way before I was born. The transaction is already done and the return period has long since passed. I don't get your anger with young people, it's kinda like if you went into the middle of your own living room, revealed your bowel, and then get upset at Stanley Steemer because they can't get the stain out. You can blame the "younger generation" all you want, but we didn't create the mess, why do you look at us to clean it up?

You know, for all the talk from the Republicans (and Democrats) about taking responsibility for your actions, they sure seem quick to want to push what they sowed off on someone else. As far as I'm concerned, you (as the older generations) broke it, it's up to you to own it.
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Just a guess, but I bet cptnjarhead has seen two or three generations come of age, which includes his own. You see the kiddies come up thinking they're wiser than every generation to have come before. Naivety is ever-replenishing. I know I was naive as hell in my teens and early 20s. I thought I had answers to everything that all who came before somehow missed. I was so very enlightened, yuk yuk. I would happily beat that 20 year-old me senseless if I could, because he deserved it.
 
Topic has devolved into the typical entrenched pointless bickering it always does, meanwhile nothing changes where it really matters. This is why people at the top get away with what they do. You're all too busy arguing amongst yourselves instead of directing your ire towards those who are actively making your lives more miserable. Just keep arguing and feeling smug about how "right" you are and how ignorant everyone else is. Meanwhile the power brokers are laughing at you for your foolishness, and they're every bit right to do so.
 
mavrocket said:
Par for the course for this Administration.

So instead of civil service NSA workers spying, we'll let outside contractors do the dirty work... wait, wasn't Snowden a contractor? :rolleyes:
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Oh PUHLEEZE. All this crap was going on under Bush (and was reported, albeit with far less documentation).

I see holes a mile wide in parts of this statement, but the idea that somehow this is a problem that is specific to this administration makes you look incredibly ignorant and/or ridiculously partisan. Even these relatively minor changes have some Republicans (not sure about Dems) complaining that it's too restrictive.

The way we should do this is simply leave the data with the carriers. They already have all this information in a data-warehouse. The primary difference is how long the data is held.

With that said, all it'd take is an NSA asset properly placed inside the carrier (and I know that in some cases relatively low level employees run the searches for subpoenaed data. Most, if not all, DBAs have access and others in IT do as well.

I have no interest, but I could run a search on any of our customers or a call from/to a number that isn't a customer. Your information is not well protected, but fortunately, aside from a spy working from the inside, most carrier employees (with access) just don't care and have no motivation.

Thus, leaving it with the carriers is better than anyone else. At least carriers are subject to lawsuits and the wrath of customers and investors.
 
Ur_Mom said:
My big problem was that when asked by people (even members of congress), the answer was "No, we do not do that" (or some variation like "We do not collect data in that manner"). A week later, documents were released that said yes, they do that. So, they change their answer to "We do collect data in that manner, but not in the exact way you asked before.". It's the lying when directly asked. So, it was pretty much saying the NSA doesn't have to answer to the government of the US. I don't agree with the way they collect their information, but it was the lying that got me. Because they "don't do" a lot of things...
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More directly, the question is why wasn't the NSA Chief charged with lying to congress? They threatened athletes because they may have lied about steroid use. I think lying about spying on U.S. citizens is a far better reason for congress to take action.
 
Terpfen said:
The Obama administration expanded what was already in place. They did that with virtually every policy that then-candidate Obama said he would overturn, especially War on Terror-related policies. He made a big deal in 2008 about closing Guantanamo--it's still open.

I personally derive a large amount of schadenfreude from the Obama disillusion in the tech media, but it's tempered by the observation that said media members haven't really learned their lesson. Nilay Patel would vote for Obama all over again. It's saddening.
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It's not a partisan issue. It's not an Obama issue. This is an issue of people not doing anything. There are a lot of libertarian people in the U.S., but they're not Libertarian party people. Yeah there are those that are libertarian and laissez faire on economic and business issues, but there are a lot more who are closer to the center as well as those who are social libertarians.

You've got 3 blocks who agree on this type of issue, but will never vote for the same candidate. And frankly, I'd never vote for Ron Paul, who has some ideas I like, but his economic ideas are nuts....well unless you have a crazy amount of money invested in Gold. Hmm... http://www.cnbc.com/id/100978321
 
Matthew Kane said:
I'm from down-under how likely is it that the NSA has personal info on me?
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Likely less then your own countries SIGINT agency has.

At the end of the day your data doesn't mean much because there aren't analysts (human beings) looking at it. The reason they collect this data is so when a different agency comes to the NSA and says 'I need data on this person we believe is a terrorist' the NSA's analysts can then pull up any data they've potentially captured on you and right up a report basically. If need be, they then likely target you further and that is where they start installing backdoors into your computer and more directly gathering your data through other means.

As it stands, what is being collected and stored is meta-data.

Also, being that Australia is part of the 'five eyes' as they call it you have more protections then let us say a German citizen. Because of the UKUSA agreement (that includes Australia, Canada, and NZ) they share all sorts of stuff, but this also affords the citizens of these countries more legal protection from being collected on.

The reality is that you don't have anything to worry about. People like to blow this shit out of proportion and they really have little to no knowledge of how the intelligence community works. They have bigger fish to fry then some hick downloading the latest game of thrones episode in Kentucky.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
So basically all that was said was "we're going to do things different now, trust us!"
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To be entirely fair, the last time a sitting President had the idea to mess around with the US intelligence apparatus in a damaging way, he ended up 'lying' in state.

The War on Terror is finally fizzling out, at a cost of *supposedly* 1.28 trillion (their 'official' figure) for the war itself, and that doesn't count all the 'neat stuff' we've bought for it, which (conservatively) has been about 400-700 billion *PER YEAR* since 9/11. Let's average that to 550b per year and that 1.28 trillion just became 8.43 trillion. For sake of overage, which the government is always good at hiding, let's be conservative and just round it up to 9 trillion.

The War on Information is the next "Cold War." There are no 'enemies' anymore - only the collection of information and its use. The US is in a very good position to dominate the first part of *this* war because we've got all the meaningful tech companies, but that's changing - international students on H-1B visas are coming over here and for the first time, they're *not staying*. They're coming here, getting jobs in high-tech industry, learning the ins-and-outs, then they're going back to their home country to spread the knowledge, because information gathering and use is the new "unconventional warfare," and you don't even have to enrich uranium or synthesize plutonium.

And the best part (at least for the industries that'll profit from this)? Unlike conventional weapons which, once bought, are *reasonably* reliable with a decent service life, the processing and storage technologies will start evolving at a rate we've never seen before, because the government will pour shitloads of grant money into high-tech industry, and then upgrade their hardware bi-annually or even perhaps quarterly. Can you imagine what the windfall for [insert storage manufacturer here] will be when they win the contract to upgrade the storage of that NSA data center in Utah when they decide to go from exabytes to zettabytes?

TL;DR: Invest in storage and networking companies now, at least you'll have some money...they'll know exactly how much you have and where you keep it, but enjoy it while we're all still just pecking keys at each other.
 
I feel at ease now. Sucks for the American citizens who can't have a bat privately without the NSA looking over there shoulders. :eek:
 
Matthew Kane said:
I feel at ease now. Sucks for the American citizens who can't have a bat privately without the NSA looking over there shoulders. :eek:
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Don't feel at ease. No one's going to be able to hide from this new left-and-right-friendly 'war' because the barrier for entry (at least initially) is so low. Robin Williams had a joke about how he was convinced Jamaica was the only country on earth that didn't have a secret nuclear weapons program, but I'm pretty sure Jamaica could cobble together a room full of hackers on semi-short notice and afford to equip them reasonably well.
 
Destruya said:
Don't feel at ease. No one's going to be able to hide from this new left-and-right-friendly 'war' because the barrier for entry (at least initially) is so low. Robin Williams had a joke about how he was convinced Jamaica was the only country on earth that didn't have a secret nuclear weapons program, but I'm pretty sure Jamaica could cobble together a room full of hackers on semi-short notice and afford to equip them reasonably well.
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They could but they'd still be limited compared to the US, UK, China, etc who sit on all the transport infrastructure in their given region in the world. This affords a huge leg up in the 'war'.
 
Matthew Kane said:
I feel at ease now. Sucks for the American citizens who can't have a bat privately without the NSA looking over there shoulders. :eek:
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The NSA isn't looking over our shoulders. They're legally entitled to look over everyone else's shoulders though as is the job of any countries intelligence agency.
 
Mchart said:
The NSA isn't looking over our shoulders. They're legally entitled to look over everyone else's shoulders though as is the job of any countries intelligence agency.
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True but the latest fuss makes it like they are all spying on you citizens, phone tapping/tracing and all that.
 
Mchart said:
They could but they'd still be limited compared to the US, UK, China, etc who sit on all the transport infrastructure in their given region in the world. This affords a huge leg up in the 'war'.
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It doesn't matter, because in any form of unconventional warfare, it doesn't matter if you're in the "Top 5/10/25/50," just that you have *something*. North Korea's 8-12 low-yield 'firecrackers' alone are enough to dissuade an attack on them even *without* China's probable assistance, and it's conceivable they don't even have a viable delivery system for them - other than a shipping crate.

So yes, the US, UK, China would be the Top 3, but there's also Israel and a *large* EU contingent who aren't beating their chests about their spending. We're being spied on in the US simply because how better to soak test a system of unprecedented size than to use your own people as the unwitting alpha and beta testers, and when you *build* such gigantic infrastructures, you're always going to have so much overhead in collection and processing that why not *keep* spying on your own people?
 
Matthew Kane said:
True but the latest fuss makes it like they are all spying on you citizens, phone tapping/tracing and all that.
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The problem stems from the fact that, as of now, there is nothing that says it is illegal to collect meta-data on people. This is why Google makes billions of dollars, and also why the NSA can collect meta-data on UKUSA agreement citizens without a warrant. Hopefully this will be changed soon. Frankly, I'm more concerned about companies like Google or Facebook selling my meta-data to advertising firms then I am of the NSA keeping it. So the law being changed because of the fallout of these NSA leaks has been beneficial in that aspect IMO.

They aren't collecting data on UKUSA citizens unless they've got a warrant approved by the court. The information released (for instance) on collecting text messages clearly shows that these are being collected on foreign citizens. The various methods that the NSA uses to collect information has also been leaked, but these are programs that are used on targeted people, not US citizens, and not all foreign citizens. People really aren't discerning these details.
 
Destruya said:
It doesn't matter, because in any form of unconventional warfare, it doesn't matter if you're in the "Top 5/10/25/50," just that you have *something*. North Korea's 8-12 low-yield 'firecrackers' alone are enough to dissuade an attack on them even *without* China's probable assistance, and it's conceivable they don't even have a viable delivery system for them - other than a shipping crate.

So yes, the US, UK, China would be the Top 3, but there's also Israel and a *large* EU contingent who aren't beating their chests about their spending. We're being spied on in the US simply because how better to soak test a system of unprecedented size than to use your own people as the unwitting alpha and beta testers, and when you *build* such gigantic infrastructures, you're always going to have so much overhead in collection and processing that why not *keep* spying on your own people?
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Again, this is a plain lie. None of the information leaked has said this at all. They are collecting meta-data, and that is what is (hopefully) being changed as we speak.
 
Mchart said:
The NSA isn't looking over our shoulders. They're legally entitled to look over everyone else's shoulders though as is the job of any countries intelligence agency.
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Wrong and Wrong

You better read USSID 18.
 
Wizard220 said:
Sure did, I also had to sign a whole bunch of documents inref to it. Had to being a crypto tech.
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Maybe we are misunderstanding each other then. As the document I read, and I've signed off on clearly states that there will not be collections on US persons unless there is a court signed order saying that they can.
 
Mchart said:
Maybe we are misunderstanding each other then. As the document I read, and I've signed off on clearly states that there will not be collections on US persons unless there is a court signed order saying that they can.
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Correct

But what the NSA is doing by mass collection on US persons on US soil is highly illegal. Collection is done on a case by case bases and it must be very specific and must have a specific target. You cant just go out and put a tap on facebook or twitter and mass collect on everyone.

Also when dealing with "allies" our so called friends there had to be specific criteria and a court order. Tapping Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone is a big no no, she is our allie.
 
Wizard220 said:
Correct

But what the NSA is doing by mass collection on US persons on US soil is highly illegal. Collection is done on a case by case bases and it must be very specific and must have a specific target. You cant just go out and put a tap on facebook or twitter and mass collect on everyone.

Also when dealing with "allies" our so called friends there had to be specific criteria and a court order. Tapping Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone is a big no no, she is our allie.
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That is highly debatable. Germany is an ally but being that they aren't part of the UKUSA agreement she isn't automatically afforded the same protections. I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of various NATO agreements dealing with SIGINT though unless you know of a reference.
 
nilepez said:
Oh PUHLEEZE. All this crap was going on under Bush (and was reported, albeit with far less documentation).
I see holes a mile wide in parts of this statement, but the idea that somehow this is a problem that is specific to this administration makes you look incredibly ignorant and/or ridiculously partisan. Even these relatively minor changes have some Republicans (not sure about Dems) complaining that it's too restrictive.

The way we should do this is simply leave the data with the carriers. They already have all this information in a data-warehouse. The primary difference is how long the data is held.

With that said, all it'd take is an NSA asset properly placed inside the carrier (and I know that in some cases relatively low level employees run the searches for subpoenaed data. Most, if not all, DBAs have access and others in IT do as well.

I have no interest, but I could run a search on any of our customers or a call from/to a number that isn't a customer. Your information is not well protected, but fortunately, aside from a spy working from the inside, most carrier employees (with access) just don't care and have no motivation.

Thus, leaving it with the carriers is better than anyone else. At least carriers are subject to lawsuits and the wrath of customers and investors.
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We don't even have to speculate what Geeb would have done,

President George Bush responds to the NY Times' article on NSA wiretapping. He mentions NSA surveillance of two 9/11 hijackers in the US and continuity of government.
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Watch:"Bush's Response to NSA Wiretapping Story"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUp_1yQBx5I
 
Mchart said:
The problem stems from the fact that, as of now, there is nothing that says it is illegal to collect meta-data on people. This is why Google makes billions of dollars, and also why the NSA can collect meta-data on UKUSA agreement citizens without a warrant. Hopefully this will be changed soon. Frankly, I'm more concerned about companies like Google or Facebook selling my meta-data to advertising firms then I am of the NSA keeping it. So the law being changed because of the fallout of these NSA leaks has been beneficial in that aspect IMO.

They aren't collecting data on UKUSA citizens unless they've got a warrant approved by the court. The information released (for instance) on collecting text messages clearly shows that these are being collected on foreign citizens. The various methods that the NSA uses to collect information has also been leaked, but these are programs that are used on targeted people, not US citizens, and not all foreign citizens. People really aren't discerning these details.
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Google makes billions of dollars.

And Amazon makes 600.
And Booz Allen Hamilton.
And hundreds, maybe thousands of other contracting firms.

It's a fucking money train, and the conductors will do anything to keep it rolling.
 
Wizard220 said:
Correct

But what the NSA is doing by mass collection on US persons on US soil is highly illegal. Collection is done on a case by case bases and it must be very specific and must have a specific target. You cant just go out and put a tap on facebook or twitter and mass collect on everyone.

Also when dealing with "allies" our so called friends there had to be specific criteria and a court order. Tapping Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone is a big no no, she is our allie.
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Our country went way, WAY, beyond electronically spying on our "allies".

The WikiLeaks releases, (which torpedoed Hillary's career as Secretary of State/ the reason why Manning is being crucified.) revealed, that even DNA was being collected.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ton-ordered-U-S-diplomats-spy-UN-leaders.html

How Hillary Clinton ordered U.S. diplomats to spy on UN leaders

By Gerri Peev and Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED: 04:02 EST, 29 November 2010
Hillary Clinton ordered American officials to spy on high ranking UN diplomats, including British representatives.

Top secret cables revealed that Mrs Clinton, the Secretary of State, even ordered diplomats to obtain DNA data – including iris scans and fingerprints - as well as credit card and frequent flier numbers.

All permanent members of the security council – including Russia, China, France and the UK – were targeted by the secret spying mission, as well as the Secretary General of the UN, Ban Ki-Moon.


The U.S. also wanted ‘biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives’. The secret 'national human intelligence collection directive' was sent to embassies and consulates around the world. The request could break international law and threatens to derail any trust between the U.S. and other powerful nations.


Requests for IT related information – such as details of passwords, personal encryption keys and network upgrades - could also raise suspicions that the U.S. was preparing to mount a hacking operation.

It is set to lead to international calls for Mrs Clinton to resign.

The fishing expedition was ordered by Mrs Clinton in July 2009, but followed similar demands made by her predecessor, Condoleeza Rice.

The secret documents were simply signed 'Clinton' and 'Rice'.


Mrs Clinton called for biometric details ‘on key UN officials, to include undersecretaries, heads of specialised agencies and their chief advisers, top SYG [secretary general] aides, heads of peace operations and political field missions, including force commanders’.

Mrs Clinton's orders followed on from those given by former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, shown here with former United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan in Rome in 2006. She also wanted intelligence on Ban Ki-Moon’s ‘management and decision-making style and his influence on the secretariat’.

Cables were sent to U.S. embassies in the UN, Middle East, Eastern Europe and Latin America. America has always handed over information about top foreign officials to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). But the request by Mrs Clinton paves the way for officials to be more closely spied upon, with even their travel plans tracked by U.S. diplomats.


In what could discredit the U.S.’s role in the Middle East peace process, missions in Israel, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Egypt were asked to gather biometric information ‘on key Palestinian Authority and Hamas leaders and representatives, to include the young guard inside Gaza, the West Bank’.


Details of the US spying mission were sent to the CIA, the U.S. Secret Service and the FBI under the heading ‘collection requirements and tasking’.


International treaties ban spying at the UN.

The 1946 UN convention on privileges and immunities states: ‘The premises of the United Nations shall be inviolable. The property and assets of the United Nations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation and any other form of interference, whether by executive, administrative, judicial or legislative action.’


The American ambassador to Britain, Louis Susman said he ‘condemned’ the disclosures and that the U.S. government was ‘taking steps to prevent future security breaches’.


He also claimed the disclosures had 'the very real potential to harm innocent people" but insisted the cables ‘should not be seen as representing U.S. policy on their own’.


He said the leaks were ‘harmful to the U.S. and our interests’ adding, ‘However, I am confident that our uniquely productive relationship with the UK will remain close and strong, focused on promoting our shared objectives and values.


U.S. State Department spokesman PJ Crowley said Mrs Clinton had warned leaders in Britain, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan and China about the cables, revealed by investigators at the Wikileaks website.


Canada, Denmark, Norway and Poland had also been warned.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...S-diplomats-spy-UN-leaders.html#ixzz2ql4ssP00
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Not sure how adding another company/organization with access to the data improves the situation. Now we have more people in contact with the data...and the ability to abuse and leak it. Especially if it is subbed out to the lowest bidder.(private firm)
 
Abditive said:
I believe the entire planet is the best of the planet. I mean, I don't like to think I'm better than other humans just because of where I live. I mean, I'd hate to be an ignorant fucker.

I think globally though. You know, 'divide and conquer' and all that shit. Humanity needs to grow up. We laugh at gangs fighting over colors or sides of town they live on but then turn around and say "My country is the best because (because...) it is".

Grow the fuck up yourself. Start thinking outside the box that was given you in elementary.
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You are a completely ignorant and naive child if you actually think that because you hold that opinion, that others do as well "around the world". There are people who would just as soon shoot you dead only because of your national origin, race, etc. This is not the 24th century, there is no United Federation of Planets, and until the entire world is sucking down a blue pill every morning ala Brave New World, it will not happen. You sir, are the one who needs to pull his head out of his behind and realize that the world is not what it is portrayed as in entertainment or the media. You are being fed a line of bull, and I hope that your rose-colored glasses view of humanity isn't shattered by something horrible that happens to you or a loved one, but gradually with knowledge.

dandragonrage said:
I don't give a fuck if you're offended any more than you give a fuck if I'm offended by your response which is childish and full of the same "HOW DARE YOU NOT SAY WE'RE NUMBER ONE" like it even fucking matters.

Guess what dude.

People in other countries are worth just as much as you, and taking part in military action is NOT automatically make you some sort of hero "because I served my country." Well, you know what? Sometimes our country, like all countries, is fucking wrong. And often times the other guy is probably thinking he's just serving his country, too. For the most part, you're all serving the needs of some rich assholes who play you like chess pieces to their gain and only their gain.

You're the one who needs to grow up and realize that the entire world is important, and that war only causes war. Sometimes defense is necessary yes, but if you stand behind any of our military action in the past couple decades, then you're something else.

I stand behind what I said 100% and I'm glad it offended you.
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I would say what I said to Abditive again, but I don't need to repeat myself.

Yes, all human beings are important. No, I don't stand for every military action we have taken as a country.

If you had any idea what it is like to serve in the military, to take that oath that you will follow orders, even if that means you might disagree with those orders, you might have just an inkling of wisdom as to why your statement is shameful and disgusting. Those men and women who are waking up every morning not knowing if they will lay there heads down again that night are doing their duty to follow orders and follow the oath they took to lay their lives down for their fellow soldiers or even the disgusting pukes like you back home.

Someday when you realize just how much of an ignorant moron you are, if ever, I hope you remember what you have written here and make up for it with gratitude and respect for those who have and may lose their life so that pinheads like you can write shit like you did.
 
Mchart said:
The NSA isn't looking over our shoulders. They're legally entitled to look over everyone else's shoulders though as is the job of any countries intelligence agency.
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Last time I checked, their mandate was exclusively for spying on foreign countries. They're not supposed to spy on Americans.
 
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