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Playstation3 The fall of sony. LONG READ
- Thread starter eblislyge
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fallguy said:Sorry, but Sony isnt going anywhere.
But good try?
I would've said that about Sega back during the 16-bit era. Look where they are now...they spend most of their time releasing mediocre titles that most people couldn't care less about.
Torgo said:
I am also wondering where these people are getting their numbers. I basically go by what I see in stores. Take my local walmart for example. At launch there was a line and the sold out instantly. The weekend of the 3-4th the got some more in and the premium sold out right away. I got there when there was 1 core system left. This past weekend (I was gone and was unable to go in right away) they got another shipment in. They still had 2 premium systems left when I got there on Tuesday, one of those is now mine.
Now I can't give you any numbers of how many machines they have been getting, but I can tell you this; I got my xbox 360 on the 3rd shipment of machines. There have also been enough 360's delivered that they are no longer instantly selling out.
Now on top of that Kyle himself got a couple of 360s on the second shipment from his local Best Buy. He even posted this on the front page. This leads me to beleave that maybe some Best Buys may be holding there second and 3rd shipments so they have a bunch they can post in a flyer. Who knows they may even have a 4th shipment by this weekend.
So I can state with 100% certainty that stores are getting weekly shipments of Xbox 360s in. If they are placing them on selves when they are getting them in then it will be pure luck if you walk in and get one. It should also be noted that most stores stock their shelves durning the middle of the night. I can go and ask the people that work at the walmart durning the day and they have no clue when they are coming in. I went into walmart at 1am and talked to the night person and they knew a ton more, because they also have to stock the shelves and are the ones putting the 360s on the shelf.
fallguy said:Sorry, but Sony isnt going anywhere.
But good try?
There going somewhere, there either losing market share or gaining, My money is on losing share. They have so much against them this time that only the biggest console cheerleader could argue otherwise. The entire landscape of the battlefield is entirely different this time around for Sony.
Microsoft got to launch first this time, and will have a significant lead.
Sony is currently losing money and cannot stand to lose it much longer, thus there in a huge restructuring effort and are laying of 10,000 workers.
There machine is very hard to code for, more so then there competitors.
They face the richest most powerful software company in the world who has no money concerns.
Microsoft is now on there second generation console, and has had the opportunity to learn from there past mistakes.
Microsoft will be able to lower the price of 360's and take huge loses to sour Sony's sales of it's PS3's Sony is not in a financial position to handle such losses.
Microsoft will be releasing it's biggest games for the 360 at Sonys luanch times, Gears of war, Halo 3 to further hurt Sony's PS2 launch.
Microsoft has secured tons of 3rd party devlopers they couldnt before, Even Japanese devs.
Microsoft has a centralized online game network which appears to be very important to some console owners.
Microsoft will have a larger more robust game lineup then Sony by the time Sony launches.
Microsoft has a large number of things going for them they never had before.
Sony has a large number of things going against them they have never had before. The worst one being huge financial troubles before they even get there sytstems out the door.
Torgo
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Remove Microsoft and place Sega in there. Just because MS releases their console first is no guarantee of success. Granted, it can certainly help but almost everything you listed was the same situation for Sega and where did that get them?eblislyge said:
Microsoft has lost over a billion dollars in the console business thus far. They are ferocious competitors due to their warchest, but it does have limits. It drags the rest of the company down and doesn't help stock prices. With Sony the situation is reversed where the console business props up the rest of the ailing company. Those workers aren't from the console division are they? Sony is also on their third generation console (learning from their past success). In the past Sony has also been more than willing to take on Microsoft in pricing and the XBox 360 sales in Japan have been less than stellar.
You're putting too much emphasis on company revenue and misreading information. Microsoft has more to lose financially than Sony does. The PS3 is pretty much a slam dunk for Sony and money in the bank. It's like their printing press. Keep in mind I haven't mentioned once which console is "better". (In my mind, all hardware is pretty much equal in this go-round.) I'm sticking to finance and sales, and not using a crystal ball and a ouijia board like you.
What gets me is that you didn't even mention Nintendo. That's one company that is really going to scare the crap out of both Sony and MS. They're going to have a lower price point than both, essentially use the same development kit as the GC and they still have that damn plummer and elf to sell games. Out of all three, Nintendo is the one to watch and see what they do. They have the most to gain out of all three.
Torgo said:
Comparing Microsoft to Sega is a bit of a stretch...they did a terrible job at marketing their console. They didn't advertise nearly as much as they should and in the end they only managed to sell around 11 million units. Not a bad number, but the Xbox has done twice that and it's Microsoft's first.
I've also got to point out that the fact that Sony is in their third generation doesn't mean that they're going to learn from their mistakes. Look at what they did with the PS2. They went from having the easiest platform to develop for to having a system that was infamous for early difficulties. To make matters worse, they supposedly strong-armed retailers and hinted that heavily advertising the Dreamcast might keep them from getting shipments of the heavily-demanded PS2s. They didn't do any better from a manufacturing standpoint either.
What mistakes are they atoning for this time? We already know that they're not going to have a centralized online system, which was a selling point to many people who wanted the Xbox (Even if they didn't use it...it's one more feature on the box). They're shoe-horning an untested media drive into the system, which will almost certainly cause problems in hardware reliability down the road (Honestly...this is the company that couldn't even get DVD-ROM/CD-ROM drives to last in their previous consoles). And what is in that hardware? A processor with more cores than any other that exists in the market today.
Torgo
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While a centralized online system has worked wonders for the XBox, I could see it playing into Sony's favor. Not all developers are happy with XBox Live. It's either play by Microsoft's rules or you don't play at all. Sony seems to be going with the PC model... which is not having one. The PS2 didn't have network capability until late in it's life so online play wasn't a major consideration until about two years ago. Sony's key here is to show that a open, free system is just as good as a centralized one. Advantage XBox, but not one that can't be challenged.ZX6Master said:
Okay, untested media. The PS2 had that fancy schmancy DVD drive in the PS2 and that DVD drive alone sold the PS2 in Japan above anything else. More people in Japan were using it as a DVD player, rather than as a console upon it's release. Sony's just doing the same thing again, using Blu-Ray as a way to get updated technology into the home. They're trying to win the HD DVD format war. Gutsy I say. (I like the other flavor HD DVD better, but I admire Sony for their choice.) Will it have problems? I don't have an answer. MS has a problem with their CDs being scratched if you move the 360 (and there's a hack to fix it). Sony could have the same thing. Having Blu-Ray isn't going to hurt them in the least at the outset. Same as the hybrid CD format the Dreamcast used and the mini-DVD discs that the GC uses.
Lastly, I see people bitching about this core is better than that core and this has more pipelines. Seriously, publishers (the people who pay the money to make those games you love) don't give a flip what's in the box. All they care is how many units are going to be sold. I haven't talked to a designer who really cares what's in the box either. I haven't seen a game design on a console that couldn't be replicated on it's counterpart. In the end, it's going to boil down to who has the better stable of designers. All three companies have caught on to this idea and they're going balls to the wall to make sure they have titles that compete.
Bollocks to the hardware talk. I can't understand why more people in the forums aren't talking about the impending titles that are going to come out for each platform. That's going to determine who's going to win market share. Average Desperate Housewife isn't looking at the box thinking this console has a better branch prediction path. Hell no. She's going to be looking at the game shelf thinking, "Hey, there's Final Madden Mario 8 exclusive only to Brand X Console. That's what little Jimmy's been talking about."
Nobody is worrying about games right now because most of us aren't expecting most of titles that Sony has listed for launch to actually be there.
Nintendo isn't letting us know much about their games, and the X360 titles that were really hyped are getting pushed back (Gears of War in July?! How the fuck did that happen?)
Nintendo isn't letting us know much about their games, and the X360 titles that were really hyped are getting pushed back (Gears of War in July?! How the fuck did that happen?)
CrimandEvil
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Honestly, I think MS has shot themselves in the foot with the 360 and it has nothing to do with marketing BS/spin or "how incredibly easy" it is to code for.
It all has to do with the decision to do two dev kits, one for the Core system and one for the Premium system and backwards compatiblity (too a small extent) and will potentially cause confuse for devs, that or the HDD becomes utterly useless.
Like someone said earlier (about online support) Devs are going to use the parts of a console that the majority of people have in the system, Sony shipping the broadband adapter seperately rather then intergrating it into the PS2 first made it a useless add on, same is said for the PS2 HDD. Since the Xbox had a broadband adapter built in you saw more games coming out with Live support and some of these games when ported to the PS2 lost any online content.
MS has created a situation where they wanted to crow about having the "cheaper" console by ditching something like the HDD and creating a "slimmed" down Core system package, I think you can see where I'm going with this.
For backwards compatiblty, when I first bought my PS2 there wasn't a whole lot of games that I wanted for it but I had a mess of PS1 games that I loved to play and some thing I just bought so it was great that I'd be able to play these "old" games on the new system. My friend on the other hand has an Xbox (as well as a PS2) and just a few games, six or seven if memory serves right) and looking over the supported games if she bought a 360 today (or course it would have to be the Premium package since you need the HDD for this) only two of those games will be playable on the 360. These aren't brand new games or even obscure ones, they just aren't the typical "Halo" game. I've already seen a few threads here about people that got rid of their "old" X box for the 360 and forgot that most of their old games aren't going to work. If anyone thinks this doesn't hurt the 360 then your sadly mistaken, that is until the 360 clearly has some "killer apps" that some how make up for it.
It all has to do with the decision to do two dev kits, one for the Core system and one for the Premium system and backwards compatiblity (too a small extent) and will potentially cause confuse for devs, that or the HDD becomes utterly useless.
Like someone said earlier (about online support) Devs are going to use the parts of a console that the majority of people have in the system, Sony shipping the broadband adapter seperately rather then intergrating it into the PS2 first made it a useless add on, same is said for the PS2 HDD. Since the Xbox had a broadband adapter built in you saw more games coming out with Live support and some of these games when ported to the PS2 lost any online content.
MS has created a situation where they wanted to crow about having the "cheaper" console by ditching something like the HDD and creating a "slimmed" down Core system package, I think you can see where I'm going with this.
For backwards compatiblty, when I first bought my PS2 there wasn't a whole lot of games that I wanted for it but I had a mess of PS1 games that I loved to play and some thing I just bought so it was great that I'd be able to play these "old" games on the new system. My friend on the other hand has an Xbox (as well as a PS2) and just a few games, six or seven if memory serves right) and looking over the supported games if she bought a 360 today (or course it would have to be the Premium package since you need the HDD for this) only two of those games will be playable on the 360. These aren't brand new games or even obscure ones, they just aren't the typical "Halo" game. I've already seen a few threads here about people that got rid of their "old" X box for the 360 and forgot that most of their old games aren't going to work. If anyone thinks this doesn't hurt the 360 then your sadly mistaken, that is until the 360 clearly has some "killer apps" that some how make up for it.
Torgo im through talking to you and won't anymore, your not discussing anything your just a Console cheerleader. Your not offering opinions just spewing a bunch of drivel that's not even debateable. Im not replacing company's and throwing out facts just to reach the same conclusions as you.
This is the shape Sony's in now. http://www.forbes.com/facesinthenew...x_km_0922autofacescan01.html?partner=yahootix
Your claiming that Sony, who's already losing money and is being forced to fire thousands of workers and go through a huge restructuring program is in a better position finacially then one of the richest companies in the world? Microsoft who has billions on top of billions of dollars of revenue a year and said they were prepared to lose money to win in the console market is in the bad place? Your claiming that Sony, a company who's bleeding money from every orifice they have is in a better financial position then Microsoft.
No amount of logic or common sense can get through what's oozing from your text.
Dude replace Microsoft with Sega's broke ass and see what you got.
Dude you can't look at revenue and what company's stand to lose, you got to imagine this is a slam dunk for Sony and that Microsoft can't stand to lose any money. Then everything works out for Sony and Microsoft loses, Hooray for our team!!!
What the hell ever.
RicKuRuKuS
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basically xbox > playstation ... from here on out... u just cant beat sexbox live
CrimandEvil
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For sure, nothing beats having to pay inorder to talk to a bunch of 14 year olds.warsawtag said:
CrimandEvil said:For sure, nothing beats having to pay inorder to talk to a bunch of 14 year olds.
I don't pay for that. I pay for the ability to filter those 14 year-olds individually with the touch of a button.
Who in the hell told you there were two development kits for the X360? There is one.
I don't think he meant development kits, I think he meant retail kits. Having 2 SKUs for 1 product, in this case, was a very negative thing. Especially for people stuck buying the core, and parents who want to save a buck, but who's kids will end up yelling and screaming because they want to do all the things you can do with the HD.
Nuzzles, unless you're being sarcastic, it's not a negative thing that you're 14. In fact, there are most certainly 14 year olds that are more mature and represent a better level of technical knowledge than other 14 year olds (you're on this forum, and are a contributing member, aren't you?). That said, if you've ever been on XBox Live, there are a lot of racist, immature, shit-talking, horrible people. And it seems that they outnumber the good, normal people on there. Many guys at an age of immaturity that play M-Rated titles indeed do have many negative things to say on XBox Live, but that doesn't in any way single you out
Nuzzles, unless you're being sarcastic, it's not a negative thing that you're 14. In fact, there are most certainly 14 year olds that are more mature and represent a better level of technical knowledge than other 14 year olds (you're on this forum, and are a contributing member, aren't you?). That said, if you've ever been on XBox Live, there are a lot of racist, immature, shit-talking, horrible people. And it seems that they outnumber the good, normal people on there. Many guys at an age of immaturity that play M-Rated titles indeed do have many negative things to say on XBox Live, but that doesn't in any way single you out
Even if he did mean retail kits, I'm pretty sure there was more than one 360 dev kit, i remember hearing many times that developers didnt get their final dev kits until about 3 months before launch.ZX6Master said:
I think the finals were the black 360s w/ final hardware, and the beta kits were Powermac G5's. Feel free to correct me on this if im wrong. I'll have to browse some links.
edit:
ah yes, found it.
beta kits using Powermac G5
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-2/xbox-360-devkit-pics-100497.php
final black 360 kits.
http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGudiGrLdi07062240
Yeah, I was just messing with Crim. ^_^
Though, the second line was serious. It's sickening what the kid's today are doing. ;(
But nope, I haven't been on X-box live... Reading the immature, racist, shit-talking crap they say is enough for me, let alone hearing it. That, and I don't have any Live capable games. (though PGR2 should be arriving tomorrow)
Thanks, Steve. ^_^
Though, the second line was serious. It's sickening what the kid's today are doing. ;(
But nope, I haven't been on X-box live... Reading the immature, racist, shit-talking crap they say is enough for me, let alone hearing it. That, and I don't have any Live capable games. (though PGR2 should be arriving tomorrow)
Thanks, Steve. ^_^
.
Doesnt phase it in the least, People buy 360's with the intention of playing games developed for the 360. If some of your previous Xbox titles happen to run on it then yippee. If someone forgot that there 360 might not play some of there older titles then whos fault is it? Pretty sad that they would be blaming Microsoft for there own Blatant Stupidity, Microsoft has a list of titles on there website that the 360 will run from the old Xbox they should have looked. Besides didnt they buy the new 360 for the new games that are coming out for it?
There is nothing hurting the 360 at the moment except lack of consoles in the United States, the demand exceeds the supply. And that speaks for itself.
RancidWAnnaRIot
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eblislyge said:
i think it does hurt them.. the whole idea that some of the Xbox titles don't work on theXbox360 is pretty lame..
Torgo
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Whew. Thank god. It's not like anything you've posted has made sense. Makes my job here easier.eblislyge said:
Yeah, industry experience and facts will tend to end debate.
Now this is funny. This is like the second or third article that you've posted in this thread that either you failed to fully read or you just didn't understand. It only proves my point. The beginning of the article states that Sony is being challenged and as a company needs to trim fat. The article then states: "Sony will focus on specific product categories such as TV, video recorders, Walkman and digital imaging. The surviving products shown off for the press include PlayStation3 and Bravia LCD TV." That proves my point that Sony is going to concentrate heavily on areas that make them money, such as the PlayStation3. Hey, I'm just as smart as Forbes! Amazing!
Not only that, your precious Forbes (in a more recent article) quotes: "Given declining enthusiasm for the Xbox 360 by Japanese players and software makers, it would be almost impossible for Microsoft to overtake Sony or even Nintendo,' said Shinko Securities analyst Yuichi Kobayashi. "Even from the global viewpoint, unless Sony fails to bring the next-generation PlayStation 3 consoles to the market on time, Microsoft appears to have almost no chance to be the industry leader."
Today, Ferrago quotes Jack Tretton, one of the head honchos of SCEA: "I don't think a consumer really cares whether or not [the console] is available in another country before or after it's available for them," (we like to think) Tretton growled. "Everybody wants a new platform as soon as they can get their hands on it, and I guess selfishly every territory wants to be first, but I think ultimately what the consumers are going to be excited about is going to be the software content that's available for it."
As for financial positioning, yeah, I am stating that Sony is in a better position for the console market. I'm not talking about who has a bigger bank account. Sony isn't no slouch when it comes to the pocketbook. They've already stated that they're going to sell the console for a loss primarily to get Blu-Ray in households. That drives the rest of the company from their movies to their televisions to other electronics. I mean, who the hell thought UMD movies would work? (I'm still out on that one, but Sony is getting more players to get on board that train.) Sony's supply chain is electronics. Microsoft are the software folks. So advantage Sony in hardware, but Microsoft has lots of muscle on the software side. All of Microsoft's money isn't having more than 30% sellthrough in Japan right now.
Nothing would please me more than to have a plethora of 360's available and MS to kick Japan's ass. You just need to put down your pom-poms and realise the situation is a lot more complex than you think it is. I would think you're a bit tired from the constant beat downs you're constantly getting from those in the forum that have been here for several years, have worked in the industry and know what they're talking about. At least you're not speaking to me anymore. If you change you're mind and leave the tomacco farm, I'll be in my double-wide on your front lawn waiting for satisfaction.
Note: I should state that if Sony does not put out their console Spring 2006, they will be in a world of hurt. Sony is pushing the PS3 mainly to beat HD-DVD to market. Some folks at Activision think it'll be Fall 2006. Sony really, really, really wants to entrench Blu-Ray as soon as possible. I think they still have nightmares about BetaMax.
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
Well then tell everyone to stop buying them out of xbox 360's, tell people to quit standing in line to get them. Apparently not everyone feels the same way you do about it. And since Microsoft is staying sold out it must not hurt to bad.
Torgo
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Depends. If they don't ship enough and create an artificial shortage then they are actually losing money. Demand for the system won't be any higher than right now, before Christmas. If supply meets demand, which it hasn't to this point except for Japan, then they make the most profit. If they wait too long, then competition enters the picture and demand will then decrease.eblislyge said:
Right now is Microsoft's golden opportunity. They need to get as many consoles out there to kick Sony in the nuts and laugh as Sony takes forever to recover. It's in Microsoft's best interest. Not only do they get a lead in the console battle, it helps them with HD-DVD which they support along with Toshiba. This latest generation is going to be interesting because of the added format war. In the end, games are going to determine the winner, but early console sales lead to bigger software sales (which is the money maker) later.
ne0-reloaded
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eblislyge said:
actually it does phase them. when parents are buying 360's for their children with the assumption that the hundreds of dollars of old games theyve bought will work, it does look bad on MS. if you've worked in retail you've heard parents say things like "ill never buy a <insert product name here> again" the average consumer doesn't know where the hard drive is on the 360, much less what it's used for. no matter if the facts are out there, the consumers PERCEPTION is all that matters. and the perception from the majority of non technical people will be backwards compatibility means backwards compatibility.
man you're logic seems really messed up. Microsoft released a highly anticipated console during the biggest shopping season of the year and had nowhere near the estimated number of units that were PROMISED to retailers. of course people are gonna be waiting in line for it. especially when they were told they could pick it up on launch date if they pre-ordered months in advance. after christmas/new years, the buzz is gonna quickly go away. the shopping season is gonna be over, and they're gonna have to put out some really fuckin good games to get the momentum going. if the time tables are correct, MS has 6 months to stake their claim before nintendo and sony release theyre console. i honestly doubt people will be waiting in line come january, much less spring time (unless halo 3 drops). like the other poster said, right now is MS time to shine. they better do something. I wanted to get ghost recon, but that's not gonna come out until march it looks like. gears of war as someone said will be out in july, and according to the developer may come out for the ps3. plus bungie said in a times article a while back the likelihood of halo 3 being ready by the ps3's launch (which at the time was spring 06) was highly unlikely. does MS have a good console? i dont know since i dont have one and don't really plan on getting one. but from what ive been reading they do have a lot of a lot of potential
all the heat you're getting is coming from you're title PS3 The fall of Sony. if the ps3 is the fall of sony, then office is the fall of microsoft.
I'd just like to add
I think Sony will be fine. Sony has pretty much the highest brand awareness that there is with its Playstation brand. You don't go and sell several 10s of million consoles and not have people remember who you are.
And as was mentioned before, Sony is in a bit of RED ink, but thats the company as a whole, I am sure the Playstation dept. is doing quite well, PS2 sales atm would be very high margin, lots of game sales and even most likely some ancillary console sales thanks to the 360 being sold out (parent "oh this 360 thing is sold out...what else is popular?")
Sony will be fine.
The other side of branding is really, Microsoft is seen as a "business" company (heh). They sell windows/office, all that shite, yet Sony is associated with walkman, tvs, entertainment basically. Microsoft in my mind is always going to have the harder time.
I think Sony will be fine. Sony has pretty much the highest brand awareness that there is with its Playstation brand. You don't go and sell several 10s of million consoles and not have people remember who you are.
And as was mentioned before, Sony is in a bit of RED ink, but thats the company as a whole, I am sure the Playstation dept. is doing quite well, PS2 sales atm would be very high margin, lots of game sales and even most likely some ancillary console sales thanks to the 360 being sold out (parent "oh this 360 thing is sold out...what else is popular?")
Sony will be fine.
The other side of branding is really, Microsoft is seen as a "business" company (heh). They sell windows/office, all that shite, yet Sony is associated with walkman, tvs, entertainment basically. Microsoft in my mind is always going to have the harder time.
CrimandEvil
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Opps, my bad. I did mean SKU, it's got to be a pain to code for both the memory card and HDD but I imagine that in many cases they're just going to drop the HDD since you want to code for the most likely hardware (much like with PC games).steviep said:
Ah I remember those years, you could say those were my "college" years. -_^Nuzzles said:
But yeah, I don't do the Live shit but I hang out with several friends that do. Usually we get together and do some tourney stuff and theres always someone there that is on Live, the kind of crap I see going on there is pretty fucked up.
eblislyge said:
Isn't it kind of hard to have a "demand" when you're only shipping something like 40-70 units to each store across the Country? I'd be willing to bet that atleast a solid third of that are going to be Core systems too, talk about insult to injury. So you're saying that people buy consoles for the future games that it might have and we should all see it as a wise investment rather then buying a console for games that you or I can actually buy today for?eblislyge said:
The whole point in releasing a console before anyone else is so that they can grab a ton of marketshare before the other guys can, how does MS shipping a few units to retailors going to help this? The whole point is to have an installed user base before the other guy, for a friend to go to another friend and ask "what system do you think I should get?" with the answer being a 360 cause thats what the friend has and he loves it because of all the cool games. Instead it's more like seeing a line of people outside of Best Buy and ten minutes later seeing virtually all of them walk away frustrated that they couldn't get a 360 even with a preorder because the store only had 40 in stock. Yeah, MS is really sitting pretty there.
All the heat im getting is coming from Sony console cheerleaders, not the title of the post. And I dont mind it, You can't post anything negative about a product without the tyrade of flaming to follow it.
I outlined why I thought the 360 would give Microsoft market dominance this time around. And put it into posts.
PS3 hard to code for(harder then 360)
Less 3rd party developers this time around due to astronomical licencing on Sonys part.
Low yields on the cell processor.
High manufacturing costs due to the inclusion of expensive new technologys.(blu ray)
Inability to sale PS3's at a loss due to already operating in the red. Resulting in a extremely expensive Console.
Coming into the market in second place at launch, having to compete against a well entrenched rival with more software, more developers, more money and a cheaper console.
Ive had some good discussions with some posters, some people did not agree with my opinions and posted they did'nt and then backed up there opinions with facts. Some people did'nt agree and called me names. Some people did'nt agree and said my links were wrong and they were right and you could'nt pay any attention to industry analysts.
One guy said he was right because HE HAS LIVED IT. One poster even claimed Sony was in a better position Finacially then Microsoft, even though Sony is losing it's ass, and that I should replace Microsoft with Sega and see what I get. And furthermore I should consider this a slam dunk for Sony.
Other well wishers for Sony say that everything is fine and dandy for them and reguardless of what is said or will be said everything is just fine and nothing will ever happen to Sony reguardless of anything else.
So to me it was about sharing an opinion and then having other share theres. And as far as Heat goes it's all good, Id say im about par for the course for my share of getting flamed posting a console themed post on a Tech site. I could'nt have expected any better reception with that post and it has been much better then what I had expected.
Is it just me or was there a severe shortage of PS2's when Sony launched them? Did you conveniently forget that? Im sure Microsoft would have loved to have magically produced 15 million consoles overnight and said here ya go. But in the real world this just doesnt happen. You can only manufacture stuff so fast and the demand is huge.
Im going to have a field day with the PS3 cheerleaders when it launches and they dont have enough to go around. But then they will say its got to much demand is why it's sold out.
If I have been taught anything in this thread it's always different for Sony, no matter what they do it is and was the right thing to do. Just like when the PS1 launched and had recalls cause it was overheating, and the ps2 when it's dvd drive didnt work. Sony couldnt do any wrong. The 360 has overheating issues and OMFG how could they do that.
Microsoft has shipped hundreds of thousands of units in just a couple months, I hardly see that counting as a few. But then you would have to call it a few to try and make a point would'nt you.
My favorite quote of this entire thread next to the Sony is better off finacially then Microsoft post. Are you under the assumption that you can't buy games for the 360? or that none of the older Xbox titles work on the 360?
Here are some places where you can get some games for the 360 today since you think they dont have any for it. www.bestbuy.com www.walmart.com www.target.com www.circuitcity.com www.gamestop.com
And heres a link to all the gmes that the 360 is backwards compatible with. http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm
You do know that the 360 has some highly anticipated titles coming for it. And by buying one today you could play those at a later date? Here is a whole page of games being made for it that are 99.9 sure to be coming out. www.xbox360.com
So when the PS3 launches if it doesnt support every game made for the playstation 1 & 2 you wont be buying will you? Now they can't be like Microsoft and support some, They must support all or that would'nt be right to you. Cause you just got done bashing the 360 for it.
My ps2 wouldnt play all my PS one titles, they screwed me over according to you. I didnt have a problem with it though as I bought my Ps2 for the new Ps2 games. But I should have been mad according to you.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136677.html
Oh noes whats this the PS3 wont be 100% backwards compatible either? are you pissed about that to?
Of course not........................
Edit: As far as core systems go, whats wrong with that? Does Microsoft have thugs hired standing in store forcing you to buy one? Can you not wait till the more expensive system get's in stock.
What about people who struggled just to get enough money together to buy a core system and a game for there kid? are they bad people? Is microsoft bad for offering them a stripped down version at a lower price so they can afford it? Why cant the people who could'nt afford a more expensive 360 upgrade theres with a Hard drive at a later date as there budget allows?
What about the PS3? you think Sony is only going to offer one system for the masses and it's going to be highly affordable? Or are they going to offer several versions at different price brackets so gamers with lower budgets can get in on some next gen action to?
You just got done bashing the 360 for the same damn things Sony has done and will be doing. Pot meet Kettle.
Ps. I don't own a Xbox nor have I ever played live. I wouldnt fit in there with the leet 13 year old kiddies, im to old and they would kick my ass on any game on that service.
morpheus9394
Limp Gawd
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If anyone is interested here are two articles showing the different financial strength between MS and Sony:
MS Rising Profits - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2338325.stm
Sony Job Cuts and NET Losses - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4270302.stm
Though Sony are no where near folding as a company, they certainly do not have a much spare capital and financial strength to fight MS for long.
Sony financials are going to be hurt more due to the high cost of manufactoring the PS3 and it will take a a couple of years before the PS3 starts selling enough for them to make a decent profit.
MS Rising Profits - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2338325.stm
Sony Job Cuts and NET Losses - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4270302.stm
Though Sony are no where near folding as a company, they certainly do not have a much spare capital and financial strength to fight MS for long.
Sony financials are going to be hurt more due to the high cost of manufactoring the PS3 and it will take a a couple of years before the PS3 starts selling enough for them to make a decent profit.
morpheus9394 said:
nice, from 2001, its still relevant, but wow.
oh and sony
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=SNE&annual
doesn't look like they have money problems, course we would need to see the FY2005 results but still, a slight spur of negative growth this year is nothing so tragic. Remember, japanese companys tend to look further into the future, unlike there american counterparts that can't help but look as far as next quarter.
Sony will be fine (as will MS)
Here ya go Kristo, for your reading enjoyment: http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9650845.html
It's only money.
It's only money.
morpheus9394
Limp Gawd
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- May 8, 2002
- Messages
- 369
OOOPPSSS - Sorry wrong link
Here is the correct one for MS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4383818.stm
Here is the correct one for MS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4383818.stm
Since were on Money.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9838
If those estimates are even remotely close, I wonder how Sony plans on affording this? There already losing money. Toshiba and Samsung is kicking there ass in the tv/electronics business. Apple is killing them in the portable music market with the Ipod, and Rca is holding number 2 in that area as well.
My guess giving them the best possible scenario It will be 3 years of PS3 sales before they could start seeing a profit from game sales in that market. And thats providing Nintendo and Microsoft just fall off the face of the planet.
Because the next gen games cost much more to produce then PS2/xbox titles there is going to be even less profit from the sale of any given title since development cost canibalize those even more now.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9838
If those estimates are even remotely close, I wonder how Sony plans on affording this? There already losing money. Toshiba and Samsung is kicking there ass in the tv/electronics business. Apple is killing them in the portable music market with the Ipod, and Rca is holding number 2 in that area as well.
My guess giving them the best possible scenario It will be 3 years of PS3 sales before they could start seeing a profit from game sales in that market. And thats providing Nintendo and Microsoft just fall off the face of the planet.
Because the next gen games cost much more to produce then PS2/xbox titles there is going to be even less profit from the sale of any given title since development cost canibalize those even more now.
Nasty_Savage
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
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- 32,684
eblislyge said:
I did, as many others here have. And if you are going to just drop generic blurbs from various sources and piece together a convoluted theory WITHOUT acknowledging other factors, then this isn't a 'discussion' at all. Various posts have offered deferring opinions which you dismiss without consideration with things you have taken out of context (which has also been pointed out) and you spend the rest of the time just defending yourself poorly. You should have just made your post and locked it immediately if you do not care what anyone else has to offer.
Madden opened up the console game to a new audience (non-gamer geeks) and directly contributed to the Genesis' success, whether you wish to believe it or not. If you don't then that's your business and I can't really offer you anything else. Google it if you want, dismiss it if you want i don't particularly care...
Slartibartfast
Supreme [H]ardness
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- 7,280
After the farce that was the ps2 launch I was amazed that anybody bought a first-run psp, but apparently those are solid little devils so maybe Sony will be less evil this time around. Anyway, what is the mechanism for a console manufacturer to make money off of third party titles? Do they just sell the SDK's, or do they also get a cut per game sold? Because if that's the case I imagine Sony will be raking in the $ on ps3 game sales.
MovieMan80
Limp Gawd
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Slartibartfast said:
They get a cut per game sold. When the original xbox launched, MS was making between $5 and $10 per game sold. That was for newly released titles going for full retail value, (I'm not sure how they handle older games that have been reduced in price.)
Sony probably has a similar licensing set-up and I'm sure it's going to be different for each developer as Sony tries to get developers to be exclusive and developers try to get the most money.
Slartibartfast
Supreme [H]ardness
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That's what I thought. Therefore, this whole thing comes down to a little bit more than the quantity of consoles sold, hmmm? It's a given that the PS3 will sell out immediately, and those people will all buy a ton of games. Even if the PS3 is a stinking pile of cow manure with the words "playstation 3" scratched into it by a hillbilly it will still sell out. Sony may be losing money but there's no way they're going out of business. I'm from Rochester, NY, the home of Kodak. You guys remember kodak? I think that in my lifetime their total layoffs have been around 50k. Yes, 50,000 people laid off. But they're still making cameras, and I do believe they're experiencing an upswing as they're developing new digital technology. Sony is not just going to fall of the face of the earth. And even if they are not the top selling console this generation, you can bet they'll hang on for another few years. Sega went by the wayside because the 32x, sega cd, saturn, and then the dreamcast sold poorly (granted the dreamcast was the def. the best of the four). One bad console does not kill a company. Right, Microsoft?
Yeah because I did'nt Acknowledge(translated accept your opinion) you called me a Retard and a tool. All because I dont' agree that Madden football was the end all be all of Segas success. The discussions your referring to go like this, I make a post, I get called names by Sony Fan-boys and if I don't like it I have a problem.
You did'nt agree with a damn thing I posted and that was fine with me, Yet I should have locked my post if I dont care what others have to offer? I didnt agree with you and you called me names over it yet I got the problem?
Look man, Im sorry if I lived it did'nt convince me. I did acknowledge it, I understand that it is your opinion and I accept that it's your opinion. I just dont agree.
I
Torgo
2[H]4U
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Nintendo was notorious for their licensing fees. Ever since the NES, since they were the only ones that could make the cartridges, they controlled almost every aspect of quality control and making sure they got their piece of the pie. That's one of the main reasons why so many publishers jumped from the N64 to the Playstation. Of course, go too far the other way like Atari and everyone is making games causing a glut and can devalue your system.MovieMan80 said:
MovieMan80
Limp Gawd
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Microsoft got to launch first this time, and will have a significant lead.
Advantage MS
Sony is currently losing money and cannot stand to lose it much longer, thus there in a huge restructuring effort and are laying of 10,000 workers.
Sony's a big company with many divisions. Their game division is profitable due to the success of the PS2 and PSP.
There machine is very hard to code for, more so then there competitors.
They're both hard to program for. Sometimes the easy solution isn't the best. Driving a stick shift is harder than an automatic, but you get better performance with the stick. The developers will learn to program for the cell and the tools will continue to improve.
They face the richest most powerful software company in the world who has no money concerns.
Advantage MS, but MS does care about money, they're just in a better position to absorb the costs if the 360 turns out to be a flop.
Microsoft is now on there second generation console, and has had the opportunity to learn from there past mistakes.
Sony's on their 3rd gen console and have the PSP on top of that.
Advantage Sony.
Microsoft will be able to lower the price of 360's and take huge loses to sour Sony's sales of it's PS3's Sony is not in a financial position to handle such losses.
The losses Sony's prepared to take is private to Sony. They're expecting to lose a lot of money. But they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think they would become profitable. PS2 lost $0.56 billion the first year but had over a $0.70 billion profit the second year. MS on the other hand lost money all four years of the xbox.
Microsoft will be releasing it's biggest games for the 360 at Sonys luanch times, Gears of war, Halo 3 to further hurt Sony's PS2 launch.
Advantage MS. But only because of Halo. Until we know what games Sony will have available on launch it's difficult to determine who has the clear advantage.
Microsoft has secured tons of 3rd party devlopers they couldnt before, Even Japanese devs.
Good for them, Sony already has 3rd party developers.
Microsoft has a centralized online game network which appears to be very important to some console owners.
More info is needed on Sony's plan before this can be factored in.
Microsoft will have a larger more robust game lineup then Sony by the time Sony launches.
Advantage MS, but a few good launch titles could sway people into Sony's camp.
Microsoft has a large number of things going for them they never had before.
Sony has a large number of things going against them they have never had before. The worst one being huge financial troubles before they even get there sytstems out the door.
MS is doing more things right this time around, but I don't think they're in a position to stomp out sony completely. Sony has enough momentum and a large enough fan base that it would take a colossal disaster for them to not turn an eventual profit with the ps3.
Sony is keeping hush about a lot of their launch plans, what games will be available, where it will be released first, how much it will cost. Once more of the details are given it will be a lot easier to predict how they will fare against MS. Until then it's just not possible to predict whether MS will become the dominant console or if the Playstation will remain on top.
Advantage MS
Sony is currently losing money and cannot stand to lose it much longer, thus there in a huge restructuring effort and are laying of 10,000 workers.
Sony's a big company with many divisions. Their game division is profitable due to the success of the PS2 and PSP.
There machine is very hard to code for, more so then there competitors.
They're both hard to program for. Sometimes the easy solution isn't the best. Driving a stick shift is harder than an automatic, but you get better performance with the stick. The developers will learn to program for the cell and the tools will continue to improve.
They face the richest most powerful software company in the world who has no money concerns.
Advantage MS, but MS does care about money, they're just in a better position to absorb the costs if the 360 turns out to be a flop.
Microsoft is now on there second generation console, and has had the opportunity to learn from there past mistakes.
Sony's on their 3rd gen console and have the PSP on top of that.
Advantage Sony.
Microsoft will be able to lower the price of 360's and take huge loses to sour Sony's sales of it's PS3's Sony is not in a financial position to handle such losses.
The losses Sony's prepared to take is private to Sony. They're expecting to lose a lot of money. But they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think they would become profitable. PS2 lost $0.56 billion the first year but had over a $0.70 billion profit the second year. MS on the other hand lost money all four years of the xbox.
Microsoft will be releasing it's biggest games for the 360 at Sonys luanch times, Gears of war, Halo 3 to further hurt Sony's PS2 launch.
Advantage MS. But only because of Halo. Until we know what games Sony will have available on launch it's difficult to determine who has the clear advantage.
Microsoft has secured tons of 3rd party devlopers they couldnt before, Even Japanese devs.
Good for them, Sony already has 3rd party developers.
Microsoft has a centralized online game network which appears to be very important to some console owners.
More info is needed on Sony's plan before this can be factored in.
Microsoft will have a larger more robust game lineup then Sony by the time Sony launches.
Advantage MS, but a few good launch titles could sway people into Sony's camp.
Microsoft has a large number of things going for them they never had before.
Sony has a large number of things going against them they have never had before. The worst one being huge financial troubles before they even get there sytstems out the door.
MS is doing more things right this time around, but I don't think they're in a position to stomp out sony completely. Sony has enough momentum and a large enough fan base that it would take a colossal disaster for them to not turn an eventual profit with the ps3.
Sony is keeping hush about a lot of their launch plans, what games will be available, where it will be released first, how much it will cost. Once more of the details are given it will be a lot easier to predict how they will fare against MS. Until then it's just not possible to predict whether MS will become the dominant console or if the Playstation will remain on top.
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