OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Vega, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. guney

    guney Limp Gawd

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    Hmmm. There's quite a bit of difference between 2 ms and 10 ms. With only 2 ms of persistence, the difference between CRT and OLED in terms of amount of flicker should be close to negligible, following my line of reasoning. (Since 60 Hz would give you nearly 17 ms of time between strobes, even a CRT that's decaying in 2 ms should have plenty of time to stay in its "dark state" between two strobes, creating plenty of flicker.)

    However, my years of CRT use were during the younger years of my life, when I couldn't really afford very high-end CRT monitors. So, perhaps the CRT displays I'm likely to have experienced were closer to that 10 ms decay time. That would mean the monitor would have stayed on for 60% of the time period between two scans/strobes, meaning quite a high percentage of "on" time. That ratio might be much lower for OLEDs. (Not sure.)

    On the other hand, it's coming back to me now that the norm for a "good" CRT monitor refresh rate was actually 85 Hz during the latest years I used them; not 60 Hz. I do believe some of the CRTs I owned (at least in post-college years) were 85 Hz models. That would mean just under 12 ms of time between each scan of the phosphors. With a persistence time of 10 ms or a little less, that does translate to the phosphors being lit nearly all the time between successive refreshes thanks to persistence.
     
  2. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    I don't think too much effort should be spent on this. OLED is near square wave for responsiveness. It's blacks are blacker and it's brights are brighter (CRTs tended to be pretty dim), and this is huge compared to ancient CRT monitors, all contribute to flicker being worse on OLED if your cycle at 60Hz.

    I also think older monitors that were expected to work at 60Hz had longer persistence phosphor. I remember running 60 Hz on some of these and it being no so bad, but when I moved to larger higher quality multisync, then 60 Hz became intolerable.

    Bottom line. It's no surprise that 60Hz strobing on a big OLED screen is a bad idea.
     
    jbltecnicspro and TroubleMagnet like this.
  3. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ya phosphor persistence was 1-2ms. But even then, the Dell is 90us, or less than 0.1ms. Ten to over twenty times faster than CRT phosphor, pretty crazy fast.
     
  4. SolidSnake3035

    SolidSnake3035 Limp Gawd

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    Are image retention/panel wear and brightness the only reasons to not leave the OLED lit up for a longer time?

    I'm imagining that with the speed of OLED's transition, the ideal image smoothness would be really high refresh (240Hz?) with the pixels lit almost constantly. Maybe that's a wrong assumption.

    It's a shame that the technology is so limited by wear, and the circuitry driving it... :-/ (Not to mention connectivity and GPU power...)
     
  5. Later

    Later n00bie

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    That depends entirely on the brightness setting of the monitor. If you have brightness dialed up to maximum on monitor OSD the pixels are likely to stay lit until close to the next strobe. If you dial the brightness slider lower the time the pixels are on becomes shorter. This is how brightness of this monitor is regulated. I find it puzzling that some don't seem to grasp this concept as LCDs with pwm controlled backlights have been around for ages.

    If you have a colorimeter you could estimate how long pixels are on at a specific brightness setting simply by measuring its luminance, they are directly proportional. However, note that OLED displays have this ABL thing, I don't know how it works or why it is used exactly.
     
  6. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    No the pixel on/off times on this monitor are fixed and duration not affected by brightness. Looks to simply be scanning DC voltage control, not traditional type PWM which sole purpose is to control brightness.
     
  7. Later

    Later n00bie

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    Surprising. What is that duration then?
     
  8. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'll have to look back at my notes, something like 4.4ms "on" at 60 Hz and 5.4ms "on" divided by two at 120 Hz.
     
  9. l88bastard

    l88bastard 2[H]4U

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    WRONG.... PWM's sole purpose is to give headaches ;-)
     
  10. Luke M

    Luke M Limp Gawd

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    The purpose of the flicker is to reduce motion blur.

    Yes, but if the source frame rate is fixed (e.g. TV broadcast), then just increasing the monitor refresh doesn't help. Need to use motion interpolation.
     
  11. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Another review on youtube.

     
  12. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    It mentioned the strobe effect in the video but obviously you can't tell how it looks from the Youtube video. So how bad is the strobing? One person seems to not think it is a big deal but another person seems to the think it is the end of the world...
     
  13. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is 60 Hz strobe effect:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Really?? Is it that bad? Vega, I thought you liked the monitor??
     
  15. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thank you Vega for posting this. Still using CRT as my main display and it looks like sooner rather than later, I'll have the true successor.
     
  16. Sancus

    Sancus Limp Gawd

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    One of the very first things Vega posted when he got the monitor was that the 60hz strobe flickering was very noticeable and that the 120hz anti-flicker mode was much better than a 60hz LCD.
     
  17. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Yes, I read that but a few other posters said that the 120hz anti-flicker mode was still not very usable, especially in gaming. Plus, I believe Vega mentioned that the 120hz anti-flicker resulted in a double image. I just wanted to know how bad it was in practice. But even if the anit-flicker mode is still better than a 60hz LCD, then it should be great. I am using the HP Omen 32 freesync monitor now. I crave great contrast and zero black for gaming and I just wanted to make sure that the picture quality gains outweighed any negatives in terms of refresh, etc. Thanks.
     
  18. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    uggghhhhh... I want to pull the trigger on this monitor but I keep going back and forth on my decision... It will be a cascade upgrade because I will have to upgrade my GPU as well to be able to hit 4k at 60fps. My R9 Fury won't be able to hit 60fps at 4k without dialing all the detail back...
     
  19. l88bastard

    l88bastard 2[H]4U

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    Buy it, try it, return it and get a C7 like the rest of us did.
     
  20. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Did Dell pull the plug on this monitor?? It doesn't come up on their site under monitors if you filter through their monitor section under UltraSharp or 4k/8k. I did a google search and found a direct link to the Dell site for the UP3017Q and it is now listed for $3,305.06 but when I click 'Add to Cart' I get an error message saying this page failed to load or no longer exists. Can anyone else check and see if they are getting the same thing?

    The 55" LG C7 is just too big for my desk and viewing distance. 32" to maaaaaybe 40" is as large as I want to go....
     
  21. Geforcepat

    Geforcepat Gawd

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    Well looks like you'll be waiting until 2020 for vega or whatever it's called. at least by then, you'll get a nice price drop on that dell.
     
  22. l88bastard

    l88bastard 2[H]4U

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    Yea,,,thats what we all said...55" to big....40" most I want on my desk....blah, blah, blah....I was one of those....I was like you once. Now I have an OLED wall on my desk and life is good ;-0
     
  23. Skott

    Skott 2[H]4U

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    Another choice is the KS8000/8500 series TV. Its cheaper than the C7. Just slightly less input lag. Comes in 49" size. For 4K TVs I think right now the best choices seem to be either the C7 or the KS8000/8500 from all the data I been seeing.
     
  24. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

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    anyone owns this monitor? doesn't OLED has the burn in effect like plasma?
     
  25. insoc123

    insoc123 Limp Gawd

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    I have one. No burn it issues at all.
     
  26. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

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    how long have you been using it?

    and how many hr. per day?

    and where the windows task bar is, in which the circle or the square is always there, do you see any image retention if you hide the bar?
     
  27. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    insoc123,
    How is it going with the oled? You still enjoy it? I am still wishing you didn't beat me out on that from B&H ;-) Hopefully Dell comes out with a second generation down the road or another manufacturer tries to take a shot with an oled panel...
     
  28. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    For all the people that returned these OLED monitors to Dell, what do you think happened to them? I have been checking the Dell outlet to see if these pop up for refurbished or open box but haven't had any luck. Nothing on ebay either...
     
  29. insoc123

    insoc123 Limp Gawd

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    I use it daily and constantly with the same images (e.g. MS Word, internet browsing, all the regular normal PC uses) plus gaming and have not noticed any IR or burn it at all. Remember that this monitor has a Image Sticking Prevention option.
     
  30. insoc123

    insoc123 Limp Gawd

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    I think I was the one who beat you out from B&H and actually from anywhere in the world buying this monitor brand new! No one seems to be selling it anymore. As I said before, I've had quite a few monitors from TN to IPS and VA and everyday this monitor still amazes me. The colors are beautiful, the full glossy screen gives the already extraordinary colors a pop out feeling and, really, watching 4K videos on youtube it's out of this world, really. No other monitor, really, comes close.

    I wish these monitor was a G SYNC one at 100+hz, that would be the perfect monitor but I guess I'll have to wait for the next generation...if ever.
     
  31. grc

    grc n00bie

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    Amazon shows a few new ones in stock from a third-party seller since last week.
     
  32. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    hmmmm Thanks for the heads up. I see the 3rd party seller. Makes me nervous buying something this expensive through a 3rd party seller. I have to check their returns and refund policy if there is something wrong with the monitor when i receive it. Its actually more expensive than what i remember B&H charging for it.... hmmmmm Sooo tempting...
     
  33. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Also, one additional question. Was it confirmed that this is a true 10bit panel? Not 8bit +FRC? Thanks!
     
  34. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    insoc123, one more question. When you game, do you game with vsync on? I also which this monitor had some sort of adaptive sync like gync or freesync even if this is a 60 hz monitor. I will have to invest in a new graphics card to game at 4k at 60hz. I worry that i will get a lot of input lag with vsync on if my graphics card is not pumping out close to 60fps. I hate screen tearing so vsnyc on will be my only option with this monitor. I have a freesync monitor now and will really miss adaptive sync i am sure. However, the zero blacks are so enticing with this monitor... I like to play a lot of dark games like Outlast, RE7, space sims, etc.
     
  35. insoc123

    insoc123 Limp Gawd

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    I play most of my games with vsync off: I haven't notice any tearing or stuttering. I use two GTX 1080 in SLI. You have to be aware that no monitor is perfect (if someone knows one please tell me right now) and the "problem" these monitor has is that when you are with the FLICKER FREE option on, the rolling scan introduces double images that could be distracting while gaming. If you are not looking for them you'll probably get lost in the beautiful colors and perfect blacks but if you are looking for them you will definitely see them. It's more noticeable in some games. It's really a pro vs con situation because as I have said many times before, I haven't seen any other monitors with such an extraordinary rendition of colors and the glossy screen beautifully helps such colors even to pop out more.

    That said, I just bought another monitor (Samsung 32" CHG70 1440p at 144hz) exclusively for playing games whenever I feel like not wanting to play with my OLED monitor. Working and doing regular stuff with my OLED monitor is such a joy and these monitor turns ordinary thing in outstanding ones, like seeing photos and watching videos. Playing games like ABZU is such a pleasure and I have even hooked up my Nintendo Switch an the colors of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe really shine out.
     
  36. FM 3370

    FM 3370 Gawd

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    Is there a competitor to this monitor? I couldn't grasp that browsing through the thread. I'd love to see something like this in a 34 inch with the same dimensions. Currently using an old Dell 3007WFP-HC which I still love. No gaming though.

    It would be cool if Dell had this at a store so I can preview.
     
  37. l88bastard

    l88bastard 2[H]4U

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    Competitor is LG 55C7

    Better response times and MOAR BIGGEM SIZEOR.... pick your poison too big or too small...thats what she said.
     
    FM 3370 likes this.
  38. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    Thanks for the heads up insoc123, I am still leaning towards picking this up from that 3rd party seller on amazon. In regards to the flicker free option, if you turn it OFF it removes the double image, correct? Is that better for gaming and then turning flicker free ON for non-gaming desktop work? I remember people posting on here that 60hz flicker looked really bad, but i remember back in the old CRT days I used a CRT at 60hz for years and never noticed any flicker. Maybe how noticeable it is varies by user?

    Also, I was looking at the Samsung CHG70 as well. How do you like it? I was thinking of getting it but the initial review i saw on youtube said it had a number of problems. HDR not working, limited number of backlight zones and limited freesync range. Thanks.
     
  39. grc

    grc n00bie

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    The third-party seller told me that they have none in stock. The listing on Amazon was in error.
     
  40. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00bie

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    figures....