Older Home Networking....

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gregnash

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So after years of running our wireless network in the house I have finally come to the point where I am fed up with the slower speeds in the front of the house. Due to the fact that this is an older home, built in 1963, a powerline adapter is out of the question as I do not know the integrity of the wire or the grounding situation (not a scenario I want to get into).

The "computer room" is in the center of the house on the north wall and is pretty centrally located. The router is a TP-Link Archer C7 v2.0 with the latest firmware. Problem that I am experiencing is due to the thickness/construction of the older house I only see about 65% single strength on 2.4 and 5G bands in the front room where the media center is.

Since most of my time is spent there, especially now with a bum leg, I am seeing some packet and strength loss for my items.. Currently streaming through Tivo Bolt, Xbox One and AppleTV will have issues every day at random times.

So looking at either going with a range extender or possibly hardwiring the house to the front room (have access to the crawl space). If we are talking literal straight line distance between router and other devices in front room it is maybe 30' however this goes through one wall, a solid wood bookcase and a solid wood entertainment center. My fear with the range extender is that it would only be extending the range of the already compromised signal. However, I have been out of the IT game for a number of years now, switch to project management, and so I am not up on the latest.

Would I get better performance from taking the time to hardwire or are my fears about the extender unfounded?
Pricing wise I am looking at probably less than $50 worth of hardware and a few hours time vs. $70-$100 for a decent AC1750 extender/booster/whatever.
 
You will get better performance by putting in some wiring and running that to the front, even compared to the single access point with full signal - just the nature of WiFi versus hard-wired there. Comparing to the extender, you will absolutely get better performance since an extender will most likely use the same radio for connecting the devices to the repeater as is used for connecting the repeater to the base router and speeds will be at least cut in half (making an assumption based on your price estimate).

If it isn't a huge hassle, run the wire.
 
When performance counts wired beats wireless all day everyday. In your case I would, and did in fact, pull several runs to the entertainment center. I actually pulled 6 runs to mine. ATM I'm only using 3 but should I need more they are there.

Crawling under the house sucks but once it is done it is done and, assuming it is done correctly, you'll have no more connection issues.
 
Ok that is what I thought... Like I said it has been years since I dealt with this stuff so I figured my assumptions were still correct but was not 100% with all the new technology advancements with 802.11ac and what not.

So the next question, with reference to Nicklebon statement, would I be best to run multiple runs to that area or would I be better off with a switch at the entertainment center that manages everything. Ultimately no two things will be running off the single all at once... and the only ones that I am really interested in dealing with hardwired is the AppleTV and the Xbox One.
 
gregnash said:
Ok that is what I thought... Like I said it has been years since I dealt with this stuff so I figured my assumptions were still correct but was not 100% with all the new technology advancements with 802.11ac and what not.

So the next question, with reference to Nicklebon statement, would I be best to run multiple runs to that area or would I be better off with a switch at the entertainment center that manages everything. Ultimately no two things will be running off the single all at once... and the only ones that I am really interested in dealing with hardwired is the AppleTV and the Xbox One.
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I'd personally run 3 lines out to the TV from your switch. Running three isn't really any more work than running one, and then you don't need a switch. If you ever DO grow the requirements at the TV area, you'll already have 1 spare line. And if you grow past that, you can just add a switch.
 
Ok so what you are saying is run three lines from my router to the wall then build three lines under the house to the entertainment area?
Basically what I had planned to do was run a single line from the router to the wall, install plate and run line under house, in the office then another single plate in the front room by the entertainment center and then do switch at the entertainment center..
 
It if was me, I'd do three lines from the router, to the wall, under the house, and to the entertainment area.

Running one line is about 95% of the work and cost. Bumping that up to 3 lines adds the other 5%. That way you don't need to worry about a switch at the far end, and you have some extra capacity to add another wired device in the future.

It also depends on how many spare ports you have on your router/switch. If you're going to have to buy a switch either way, then it might be easier to just do one line to the TV and put the switch back there.
 
gregnash said:
So after years of running our wireless network in the house I have finally come to the point where I am fed up with the slower speeds in the front of the house. Due to the fact that this is an older home, built in 1963, a powerline adapter is out of the question as I do not know the integrity of the wire or the grounding situation (not a scenario I want to get into).
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Don't completely write off powerline ethenet. My house was built in 1947, (updated panel and wiring but two prong outlets) and Powerline Ethernet works fine. Nothing super speedy (200 Mbps) but a huge improvement over wifi on Tivos and set top boxes like Roku and AppleTV. (provided your STBs have ethernet)

I'm running ethernet to my home theater stack now since I've got Steam Link running. If it weren't for the Link, I'd still be on Powerline Ethernet.
 
Thanks for the info Saturn_V. Still think I will do the hard wired as that really will give me optimal speed for these things. Now to just decide if I want to do a switch at the router or at the entertainment center. Router currently does not have anything plugged into it so has 4 open ports.
 
Take the opportunity to hardwire as much as possible. BTW you should have at least 4 ports for your TV setup: 1 for the TV, one for the BD player, one for the DVR, and one for the HTPC or games console. I have one cable running to a switch and 7 ports in use.
 
Yeah TV is an older Vizio pre-smart tv and the BD player is just as old. Like I said main concern is the X1, AppleTV and possibly TiVo but we don't really stream anything to that as X1 has ability for everything it does.

Now just to figure how much line I need to buy from Monoprice. That and whether I should buy already terminated lengths or buy bulk and terminate myself (purchasing crimper and blocks too). Mainly everything is gonna be bought from Monoprice.
 
Monoprice is a good place to go for everything for a project like this one.
 
It's a bit harder to run pre-terminated cable through walls and under floors. You can do it, just make sure you tape up the ends first so they don't get mangled!
 
gregnash said:
Yah nice thing is that they actually have terminated lengths from short to like 100'. Just wondering if it is more worthwhile to buy bulk line and create the lengths myself or buy the pre-built.

Was thinking of running the pre-built lengths with these as the keystones for the wall plates.
Cat6 Inline Coupler Type Keystone Jack - White - Monoprice.com
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I bought some tools and temination ends from monoprice and bought bulk cable. I found 500 feet of 5E cable on a car audio forum for $30 shipped. I have used the crap out of that cable. i also bought a 1000ft($120 from amazon) roll of outdoor 5e I used for the 10 cameras i have outside. I am down to 140ft left, and I would have never been able to pull most of those lines through with ends on them.
 
So would I notice the 350mhz over 500mhz bandwidth difference of the cat5e over the cat6??? Runs would be probably about 70' at max, won't know until I can actually get under the house and measure. Bulk price difference between the two is less than $10 for 250'.
 
If you're running a 1G network, you won't notice ANY difference between Cat5E and Cat6/6A cable. Unless you're running REALLY close to the maximum distance (around 100m), then the Cat6 might work a bit better. You do need Cat6/6A to run 10G over copper.

BUT, if you're going to make the run now, I'd run Cat6. It's only a bit cheaper, and 3-4 years from now, when and if 10G takes off, you've already got the cable run and don't have to do it again.
 
Yeah that was basically my reasoning. Figure the extra $10 or so would be much more worth it since I am doing the run already. I may just go for 1000' box and that way I have lots of extra should I want to do other runs.
 
gregnash said:
Yeah that was basically my reasoning. Figure the extra $10 or so would be much more worth it since I am doing the run already. I may just go for 1000' box and that way I have lots of extra should I want to do other runs.
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Exactly...it's pretty likely you won't really NEED it, but given the minor cost difference for something like this, it makes sense to run the higher quality cable. Plus if you're going to buy a 1000ft anyway, then why not get the good stuff just in case?
 
Basically, if you're going to be opening walls to run stuff, the cost difference between a single run and multiple runs is fairly negligible. So it just makes sense to do multiple runs, get it out of the way ONCE, and never have to fuck with it again.

And yeah if you (or the person doing the work) has the equipment to terminate, just go for the 1000' box and get the good stuff.

Also, don't forget to pull a piece of string along with the cable runs. This way, if you have to yank out a bad run at a later date, you can replace it with a new run easily with the string to pull with.
 
Thanks for the string idea Chas... Yeah since I am going down there I will pull multiple runs, may even pull one to our bedroom since I am down there and then run a switch there, only Tivo, AppleTV and SmartTV there but that is MUCH closer and does not have the signal problems that I experience in the front room. Might use it to clean up some of the cable wiring that the cable installers just pulled through the floor due to the age of the house. LOL.. few hour project is now turning into what looks like a weekend project.
 
Hey, as much of a pain in the balls as it is, it'll be worth it in the end.

Also, with the string, to keep it out of the way and prevent it from accidentally being dragged, once it's in, just tape the ends to the side of the outlet box.
 
Funnily enough this subject came up on another board I frequent so I'll just add two points I made there which I forgot to make in my post above: label your cables, and colour code your cables. For instance the cables for the ground floor might be one colour, those for the basement another, and those for the bedrooms a third. The installation costs will be slightly more but the reduction in embuggeration later on will be priceless.
 
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And, remember the ends have to go with the cable and the crimper has to go with the ends. And, cat6 has much tighter specs and less leeway for sloppy termination. So, pick your cable, find the matching ends (normally the same mfr), then buy the appropriate crimper (maybe with replaceable anvils). I haven't checked monoprice, I normally go to greybar, that way I know that cable/ends/crimper will match. Trust me, you don't want to troubleshoot a cable problem where a little wiggle causes the link to go down. Or when you plug your cable into a new box, and the one next to it drops the link and you move everything back into place before you see the other link is down. Been there, done that, have the emotional scars. 5e is a little more tolerant of a dropped twist or 2, 6 isn't. If you go with 6, get pre-made, your stomach ( and so) will thank you for it. And get an inexpensive two-piece tester from amazon, one that uses an id for one end so you can see if all 6 strands are terminated correctly. Embuggeration, indeed.
 
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pek said:
And, remember the ends have to go with the cable and the crimper has to go with the ends. And, cat6 has much tighter specs and less leeway for sloppy termination. So, pick your cable, find the matching ends (normally the same mfr), then buy the appropriate crimper (maybe with replaceable anvils). I haven't checked monoprice, I normally go to greybar, that way I know that cable/ends/crimper will match. Trust me, you don't want to troubleshoot a cable problem where a little wiggle causes the link to go down. Or when you plug your cable into a new box, and the one next to it drops the link and you move everything back into place before you see the other link is down. Been there, done that, have the emotional scars. 5e is a little more tolerant of a dropped twist or 2, 6 isn't. If you go with 6, get pre-made, your stomach ( and so) will thank you for it. And get an inexpensive two-piece tester from amazon, one that uses an id for one end so you can see if all 6 strands are terminated correctly. Embuggeration, indeed.
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This really only applies if you're trying to get 10GbE over copper to work. If you're just running 1GbE over CAT6, it's no different than using CAT5E, the pairs just have a tighter twist and a divider in the jacket. If you're building shielded CAT6 with grounded/shielded ends and looking to get them "certified", then yes, you have to build them exactly right. I think by the time 10GbE gets down to reasonable costs for the consumer, they'll have loosened the tolerances a bit though, otherwise it'll never take off.
 
I work in a large data center, so it colors what I do at home, and any advice I might dispense. I use om3/om4 for 10 gig inside my home, I have things set up as an mdf with 2 idf's. But, once again, it's hard to take my infrastructure hat off. I'd say 5e with 1 gig copper is plenty inside a 'normal' home.
 
pek said:
I work in a large data center, so it colors what I do at home, and any advice I might dispense. I use om3/om4 for 10 gig inside my home, I have things set up as an mdf with 2 idf's. But, once again, it's hard to take my infrastructure hat off. I'd say 5e with 1 gig copper is plenty inside a 'normal' home.
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Yeah, 10GbE is really outside of any NEED of a normal home user or even most "prosumer" types. Not to mention the ungodly cost of the hardware. My comment to him about running CAT6 still applies though. If you're going to run the cable, then do it once with the good stuff, since the cable itself doesn't cost much more than CAT5E. If, sometime in the future, he wants to upgrade to 10GbE, at worst he'd just need to re-terminate the cable with better connectors. Otherwise he'd have to redo the entire run.
 
Yeah I am more about cost effectiveness so I would rather spend the extra $10 for the CAT6 over the CAT5e at that price. Terminations are a couple cents more expensive too so the overall increase is cost is negligible. With regards to doing it "properly" for a 10GbE network within the home I am with Bandalo in that when it does finally come our way the cost of the hardware will still be fairly prohibitive and by that point wireless tech should really have caught up to the 1GbE wired network throughput and latency.

At this point, I view it like doing a Vortec swap into my 85 Toyota Land Cruiser. Sure the new engine/drivetrain will gain me power, torque and mpg's but I will still be running that in a 30+yr old vehicle so it will never be "up to standards" of a newer vehicle. If I had a much newer house or was building a newer house then I would worry more about the proper installation like pek is describing as that would allow for longevity and/or resale value to that house.
 
So here is what I am looking at purchasing... so that is a little over $100 including their professional toolkit which has some patch cable terminations, crimper, punchdown tool and wire cutters. Then another $20 from amazon for a small 5 port unmanaged gigabit switch..
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gregnash said:
So here is what I am looking at purchasing... so that is a little over $100 including their professional toolkit which has some patch cable terminations, crimper, punchdown tool and wire cutters. Then another $20 from amazon for a small 5 port unmanaged gigabit switch..
View attachment 7701
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Looks like you got everything you need. You're doing 3 runs, correct?
 
Correct.. plan is to do three runs from the office... two of which will go to the front room and the third will be run to the bedroom. Xbox One will have a dedicated line to itself in the front room with the other devices sharing via the switch mentioned. Same thing will more than likely happen in bedroom too (TiVo, AppleTv, etc.) and will share singular line via a switch. Hoping the doc gives me the OK to start weight bearing this coming week so I can crawl around under the house before the weather starts.
 
gregnash said:
Correct.. plan is to do three runs from the office... two of which will go to the front room and the third will be run to the bedroom. Xbox One will have a dedicated line to itself in the front room with the other devices sharing via the switch mentioned. Same thing will more than likely happen in bedroom too (TiVo, AppleTv, etc.) and will share singular line via a switch. Hoping the doc gives me the OK to start weight bearing this coming week so I can crawl around under the house before the weather starts.
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Good luck with the medical issue and the wiring! Let us know how it turns out when it's all done.
 
Thanks! Hopefully this is on the downhill portion of it and can get back to normal life and riding again. Will definitely try to remember to post up once I get everything and all is said and done. Everyone like pics right?!
 
My philosophy is as follows.

Wireless is for devices that need to be mobile only. Laptops, tablets and phones. I even plug laptops in when I'm sitting still.

If something is stationary it gets a wire. No exceptions. I don't see the point of motherboards shipping with wifi or PCIe wifi adapters.
 
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Zarathustra[H] You have a good point there... Most of the stuff in our house is mobile, wife's macbook, ipads, iphones... But we do have those stationary things like my iMac, Xbox 1, Tivos, AppleTVs, etc. That is the plan that with the hardwire to get things that SHOULD be wired, to be wired.

Really appreciate everyone's input and have learned some new stuff while researching how to do this. While I may only ever use the networking toolkit once or twice in my life it is something that I would like to have and do properly with the proper tools. And to the same point that is why I am going to run the Cat6 vs. Cat5e, eventually we will have readily available 10Gbe networks (hopefully FIBER will come to my neighborhood soon) and then my wired network will be setup for it.

Right now the way that I have things split up with both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz network is that the Xbox, iMac and Macbook are on the 5Ghz and everything else is on the 2.4Ghz. This will help alleviate some things in the future. Since I dont do gaming on the iMac anymore the wireless capability of it is just fine for what I use it for.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
My philosophy is as follows.

Wireless is for devices that need to be mobile only. Laptops, tablets and phones. I even plug laptops in when I'm sitting still.

If something is stationary it gets a wire. No exceptions. I don't see the point of motherboards shipping with wifi or PCIe wifi adapters.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
Well got an email today from Monoprice that they were having a one-day promo, FALL20 takes $20 off of qualifying $100+ orders... Threw all the stuff I needed in the basket and did the promo and brought everything to $115 with next business day shipping. So all the stuff should be on it's way by early next week, hell I may even get tomorrow or Monday as they are in California and normally when I have ordered in the past I have gotten it within a day or two (I'm in Northern NV).
 
Ok so here is the next question.....
I will be having two lines run to the front room, one will be dedicated to the XBOX One and the other to all the other devices there (AppleTv, Tivo, maybe a third line to Blu-Ray player to update the firmware but its older so no streaming or anything). I will use a small switch there for the line that is handling all the other devices.
The line that will be run to the bedroom will handle multiple devices; Tivo, AppleTv, Blu-Ray Player and possibly to the TV as that is a Smart TV and has the ability to do Amazon Prime, HULU, etc.
Anyways, do you guys have a recommendation for a small, cheap gigabit switch? Was looking at this one as it seemed to get good reviews on the net.. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QUA6R...lid=1P1Z3YAEGLU4V&coliid=I146WSNTHSLI3S&psc=1
 
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