*Official* Norco data storage products thread

Philmatic said:
You make a good point, but the reason I do not suspect the HBA's is because regardless of where I put the 8 drives (All on one card, split amongst two or three) those same 8 drive work.
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I did not say that you had defective HBAs. I said DRIVERS or firmware. Unless you claim to know the details of exactly how multiple HBAs work together with firmware and drivers, it is quite possible that it is a driver or firmware issue.

If you cannot be bothered to test that, then you should buy 3 mini-SAS to 4xSATA breakout cables (and sufficient Molex 4-pin power cables) and attach 8-12 drives to M1015s without involving the backplanes. That is the easiest way to test whether the backplanes are the cause of the problem (which sounds unlikely).
 
JoeComp said:
I did not say that you had defective HBAs. I said DRIVERS or firmware. Unless you claim to know the details of exactly how multiple HBAs work together with firmware and drivers, it is quite possible that it is a driver or firmware issue.

If you cannot be bothered to test that, then you should buy 3 mini-SAS to 4xSATA breakout cables (and sufficient Molex 4-pin power cables) and attach 8-12 drives to M1015s without involving the backplanes. That is the easiest way to test whether the backplanes are the cause of the problem (which sounds unlikely).
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And shell out another $40? Fine, you make a good point, I will order 4 of these tomorrow (So I can hook up 16 drives).
 
Philmatic said:
And shell out another $40? Fine, you make a good point, I will order 4 of these tomorrow (So I can hook up 16 drives).
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English (google translate):

Hello,
I have been running for one year the following hardware:
a) Norco 4224 + Supermicro X8DTH-iF + 2xXeon E5620 + 24GB RAM + HBA Adaptec 52445 + Hitachi 7K2000 (2TB) x 24 + PSU OCZ-ZX850W. Fitted as RAID 6 + Hot Spare ---> 38.1TB

b) Norco 4224 + Chenbro CK23601 SAS Expander + Hitachi 7K4000 (4TB) x 4 + Enermax PSU ERV1250EGT-01. Fitted as Raid 5 ---> 10.9TB

I have not had any problems. They are running 24x7 and I even took them to several Lan Parties held here in Spain (Euskal Encounter, Campus Party, etc ...).
The only modification made to the Norco 4224 has been changing his original fans by Noctua brand.

Greetings.

Spanish:

Hola,
Tengo funcionando desde hace 1 año el siguiente hardware:
a) Norco 4224 + Supermicro X8DTH-iF + 2 x Xeon E5620 + 24GB RAM + HBA Adaptec 52445 + 24xHD Hitachi 7K2000 (2TB) + PSU OCZ-ZX850W. Montado como Raid 6 + Hot Spare ---> 38.1TB

b) Norco 4224 + SAS Expander Chenbro CK23601 + 4xHD Hitachi 7K4000 (4TB) + PSU Enermax ERV1250EGT-01. Montado como Raid 5 ---> 10.9TB

Todavía no he tenido problemas de ningún tipo. Están en funcionamiento 24x7 e incluso me los llevo a varias Lan Partys que se celebran aquí en España (Euskal Encounter, Campus Party, etc...).
La única modificación realizada a las cajas Norco 4224 ha sido cambiarle los ventiladores originales por los de la marca Noctua.

Un saludo.
 
Philmatic said:
It cannot be the PSU, Seasonic is top quality and 750W is well above what I need. Considering I can't even get 8 hard drives working, it can't be the wattage.

I honestly hope it is, but I'd have to but additional cables and I don't really feel that I should do that. Additionally, I only have 6 SATA ports on the motherboard, 4 of which are free, so I don't see how that proves anything since my problem is that I cannot get 8 hard drives working.
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I had a OCZ 1000W supply that could not reliably power my 24-bay chassis when using more than two modular molex connectors from it. Sure, the supply had enough wattage, just not enough across all it's drive connections. Just one or two could power all 24 drives with no problem, but as soon as I tried using all four of it's outputs, no workee. Wattage alone is NOT an indicator. Nor is resting on claims about quality. Things can always be defective. TESTING proves it out.

No, you shouldn't "have to" do this, but you're occupied several pages of posts here from others all telling you ways to break it down and test the pieces. At some point you're going to listen and follow the advice.
 
The problem is not the wattage, it's the maximum 12V amperage dedicated to the molex rail.
For example i failed to boot ~twenty 7200RPM hdds with a big, fat and expensive PCP850W.
The problem was the four, separated 12V rails: only one of them was dedicated to molex connectors.

Now pretty much all of the latest PSU have only one big 12V rail, which is better for booting large arrays.
The Seasonic X-750 give 62A on the 12V rail, which should be far enough.

But only 8 hdds is not much, even for a small PSU.
 
I have a Sea Sonic Platinum Series 860W which has 3+3+2 molex cables and norco 7to1 cable. Any advice on how to plug the 4224's 6+6 molex inputs? I plan to use all of the 24 bays.
 
Mastaba said:
The problem is not the wattage, it's the maximum 12V amperage dedicated to the molex rail.
For example i failed to boot ~twenty 7200RPM hdds with a big, fat and expensive PCP850W.
The problem was the four, separated 12V rails: only one of them was dedicated to molex connectors.

Now pretty much all of the latest PSU have only one big 12V rail, which is better for booting large arrays.
The Seasonic X-750 give 62A on the 12V rail, which should be far enough.

But only 8 hdds is not much, even for a small PSU.
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this is the reason for buying 12V single rail PSU as my understanding, no puzzle to hook-up molex connector.
bought 750W quad (http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-750-quad-black.html) with single 12V rail in 2008 and still running 24/7 as today. it has been moved 2 times to a bigger destktop case and 4U case due on upgrades with more HDs
 
> 860W which has 3+3+2 molex cables and norco 7to1 cable.

use the 7to1 to tie all the planes together and tape off the feed.

nas-build-01555.jpg


it would be better to have more than three wires from the PS, but plug the three you have into every other norco plane.

nas-build-01569.jpg
 
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its not the wattage rating of the PS, its how many of thoese watts are getting to the drive planes, my tiny PS has 5 runs of copper to the rails
nas-build-01571.jpg

and it handls my 12 drive, 360 watt startup fine
boot.gif
 
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picker said:
> 860W which has 3+3+2 molex cables and norco 7to1 cable.

use the 7to1 to tie all the planes together and tape off the feed.


it would be better to have more than three wires from the PS, but plug the three you have into every other norco plane.
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How is the top backplane getting the power if there is no feed (why do that anyway?) to the 7to1 cable?

I used 3+3 for the rightside and other 2 for one of the leftside and the 7to1 input (with only 5 then pluged in the backplane).
To save space (use one less cable), I was thinking of having 3+3 to power the 5 ports of backplane with one to feed the 7to1 adapter which then is plugged to everywhere else.
So should I still rather use your option or go with either of mine?
 
I'd love to find those side rack ears with the buttons and USB sockets. I've got a few machines where it would be very convenient to add the USB sockets there.
 
JoeComp said:
Why do you ask that? That xcase is completely different from the Norco.
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Because i don't know many others brand that build this sort of case, and there is some similarities (24*3.5" backplane in a 4U, ATX PSU support, 3*120mm fanwall, low price...)

Plus there is posts saying that the RM424=RPC4224:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1037834381&highlight=RM424#post1037834381
I emailed them and asked what are the differences between RM424 and Norco 4224 today.
Answer:
It is the same chassis, but 120mm fans.
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While the RM424 seems to be a rebranded RPC4224, the RM424 pro looks like different, more features like SGPIO, temp controlled fans and claimed better quality.
 
I've emailed XCase a whole load of questions about the RM424 Pro. I'll post them up when I've got the reply.
 
I believe he backplanes have changed at least 3 times on Norco RPC4224's throughout the course of it's life
 
From my observations, when the RM-424 and RM-420 first came out, the were effectively 4224s and 4220s respectively. However, over time X-Case have made their own changes so now the respective product lines are distinctly (but not greatly) different. They are far closer to each other than say an equivalent Supermicro case.
 
JoeComp said:
I have never seen Norco backplanes that look like they do in this video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyb8tIQ8duo&feature=youtu.be#t=02m40s
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The video you have posted is of the RM 424 PRO which does indeed have very different backplanes (2 x 12 port) hence why I sent them a large list of questions.

The RM 424 Standard has 6 4 port backplanes similar to the Norco

Video can be found here

http://www.xcase.co.uk/24-bay-Hotswap-rackmount-chassis-norco-RPC-4224-p/case-xcase-rm424.htm

They also do a shorter model.
 
EMM386 said:
The video you have posted is of the RM 424 PRO which does indeed have very different backplanes (2 x 12 port) hence why I sent them a large list of questions.
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I was just referencing the video that Mastaba linked to, and his previous question about whether that Xcase model (RM-424 Pro) was the same as a Norco. Obviously not.

But it does look like the other non-Pro Xcase is quite similar to the Norco.
 
@thread

Anyone know about the build quality of the RM-424 PRO? I'm not expecting it to be Supermicro-quality, but is it close?
 
While the RM424 seems to be a rebranded RPC4224, confirmed by xcase themselves (see the mail quoted on post #975), the RM424PRO obviously looks quite different as JoeComp stated, i'd like to know more about these differences, because there is also some similarities.


Email answer i get from xcase:
Any Norco backplane (Green) from 2011 and before are not great, the later 2011 Yellow ones that are used still now are much better
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However they are still basic and have nothing like the technology the 424 pro has.
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With The Norco You don't get SGPIO, Temp controlled fans but just as importantly the build quality is far better on the Pro.
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So there is different Norco backplane quality models (how to check this? What changed precisely?), and the RM424PRO is claimed to have an even better quality than any Norco.
(Plus all the added features, i saw there is also 2*2.5" hdd bays inside)

I'd like to know precisely about the safety MOSFETs that caused trouble here:
http://wsyntax.com/cs/killer-norco-case/
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1350636/i-cant-believe-how-much-trouble-i-have-had-with-my-norco-4224
And what's the maximum ampère supported for each drive.
Anyone know if the RM424PRO has been seriously reviewed somewhere ?

I'm also very interested by the info EMM386 will get.
 
Here is the email I sent

Will post the reply when I get it

EMM386 said:
Good Morning Jamo, or whoever answers this

I’ve been doing a lot of research on the internet for building a server or JBOD with a large number of disks for my home network and settled on a Norco style case.

As I live in the UK I stumbled upon your website and have watched a large number of your YouTube videos which are very informative and fab. I thoroughly appreciate the effort taken to film and upload them and indeed this is what drew me to your company rather than www.ri-vier.nl

I really want a RM 424 or 424 Pro.

I’ve watched the videos for both a number of times and have a few questions re the 424 Pro.

The standard 424 has 6 individual backplanes powering 4 drives with a SFF8087 and dual molexes for redundancy. The 424 Pro has 2 backplanes powering 12 drives with 3 SFF8087s. In the video I can only see 3 molexes per backplane meaning the Pro wouldn’t have the same power redundancy as standard. Is this the case or can I just not make out the additional molex connections in the video?

The new backplanes support SGPIO which is a great addition. But can I ask are they made by a well known company such as SuperMicro or Chenbro or are they still custom built for this case?

Would the individual 6 backplanes of the standard not give greater airflow in the vertical gaps between the backplanes than the continuous 2U backplanes used in the Pro? I do realise there are gaps in the new backplane board.

Also do you or can you sell the backplanes separate from the case and if so at what cost? i.e. if I buy a 424 pro could I buy an additional backplane so I can swap it out easily in the event of failure?

I like the new thick 120mm hotswap fans. However is the single fan hotswap module a unit that accepts a standard fan or is it one complete unit?. I.e. if one of my thick fans fails can I replace the fan inside the hotswap module with a standard one or do I need to come back to you guys to buy a complete sealed thick unit?

Do you sell the hotswap module separately or indeed the whole hotswap assembly with the 3 hotswap fans and PCB and again what would the cost be?

The description and video says it’s made of a higher quality. Is this just the backplanes and fans or is the actual metal case itself made of thicker mm steel?

Finally I can only see short 20inch rails on your site. Do you sell rails for the 424 and 424 Pro and again if so what cost?

Thank you for taking the time to read my email and in advance for any hep you can be.

Please note although I’m asking now this is unlikely to result in a sale until the New Year as the boss (wife) won’t authorise it during the Xmas period :’-(

Kind Regards
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EMM386 - there is a little more information on the xcase website news page

New Professional Range of Rackmount Chassis have now been ordered. These High end server chassis will be priced under Chenbro and Supermico but will have features such as Temperature Control, Hotswap Fans and Intel Tested 6Gb Backplanes.

If you are near to Milton Keynes, you should ask them if you can see them yourself. They are friendly enough, picked up all but one of my Norco cases from them.
 
Hi haileris

Thanks for the info!

I'll check it out.

Sadly I'm in Edinburgh so some distance away but they do seem incredibly friendly and helpful.
 
Well, it looks like I can be added to the list of people that have had problems with their Norco case. :(

I bought my case in April from a company that was going out of business. I know I bought it in April because I found my credit card statement that shows the withdrawal, but not the website I bought it from.

Anyway, all of my HDD power LEDs seem to work, but none of my "disk in use" LEDs work. I tried first with my Areca 1280ML-24 and they come on.. just barely. Then I tried my Highpoint RocketRAID 3560. While the Areca seems to have very dim blue LEDs come on when the disk is in use, the Highpoint has nothing. I also have a backplane that has a bad port.

I sent Norco an email to see about an RMA. Anyone have any advice for the "disk in use" LEDs? I have another one of these cases already and its blue LED lights are very bright and obvious but it is using a 3ware controller. Reading through and doing searches I find that alot of people have had problems similar to mine.
 
The activity LEDs on my Norco backplanes are run by the drives themselves, and not by out-of-band signalling from the RAID controller. If the drives don't support the feature (I believe it's optional in the SATA spec) to output activity information, the LEDs won't light. It's not necessarily a backplane problem - it's worth trying with some other drives just in case.

None of my blue activity LEDs are very bright once the light has gone through the light guides, either. All the LEDs are very bright on the backplanes themselves when observed from the back, however.
 
Thanks for the reply. I have read that the SATA spec doesn't require the activity LEDs. Apparently Seagate is pretty good about providing the activity LEDs but WD isn't. Of course, my drives are WD. and the drives in the other Norco are Seagate. Go figure :(

I saw there are 10 pins on one side as well as a weird 4 pin port that looks kind of like a 3.5" floppy power connector. No documentation at all as to what those do or how they work. I'd really like to think that you can hook up the out of band signalling but with 10 pins and only 8 holes in my out of band cable I'm thinking they aren't compatible. There's no way I'll hook them up without knowing for sure that they will work. I don't want to break a rather expensive 24 port RAID controller. :)

After posting I did pull a drive out and look inside while causing disk activity. The blue light is fairly bright so I'm really confused as to why its so dim on the outside. In all seriousness I will never be able to see those blue lights while the ones on my other case are quite bright and very noticable. I've since confirmed that the blue LEDs do seem to all work, so whatever is wrong its not an issue with the backplanes.

So I'm just left with 1 broken backplane(only 3 of 4 ports work) and a bunch of activity LEDs that work, but don't, at the same time. :p
 
After getting really disappointed at the lack of function of the activity LEDs I decided I'd take matters into my own hands. I took some very small squares of duct tape and covered up the green power LEDs. Now I can see the blue LEDs extremely well...through both waveguides. LOL. The funny thing is that the blue LED is actually brighter coming out of the green LED waveguide than from the waveguide that the waveguide for the blue LED. So I'm chalking this one up to the LEDs not being properly angled with the waveguide and that the green color is just too close to the blue color for the human eye to differentiate between the 2 colors when they are mixed together as the Norco case does.

Also, no response by email from Norco. Not too surprised actually since I had sent them an email 6 months ago with a question and they never responded.

Edit: So I thought I had a great idea. I had some black nail polish I've used to block out inconvenient bright LEDs in the past. I put a thick coat on the green LED since I'm not a big fan of power LEDs anyway. The green light is so bright it shines through the black nail polish!
 
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I'm afraid not!

I did get an email saying they'd need some time to answer my questions thoroughly

I said to take their time as I would be unable to buy it till new year anyway

So perhaps they're waiting till then.
 
EMM386 said:
Here is the email I sent

Will post the reply when I get it
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The only bit of advice I can give you is never let the wife stop you doing what you want.... she won't respect you if you let her tell you what to do!

Apart from that... where in the UK are you going to buy the case?
 
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