best april fools of 2013?
well played Mr. Takei well played sir.
I'd watch it!
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Official [H] Star Wars:The Old Republic Thread
- Thread starter Savoy
- Start date
I'd watch it!
Kryptorchid
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2011
- Messages
- 284
The "no-lifers" as you call them were not the problem. Read the article and see that the average player was logging 40 hrs/week. Ohlen said the game had 120-180 hours of content. That means 50% of your player-base is at end-game in one month. The developers thought it would take 4 months to go through 120 hours -- that is an average playtime of 10 hours a week, or 1.42 hours a day.
A lot of people trash this game and while it has it's issues it's not as bad as it once was. A lot of things have improved. Many people are taking the butt hurt "to little to late" stance with it which I can't understand. I get it to a small degree but at some point you've got to move on from that shit. I think the core game was always good but it was rough around the edges due to the details being overlooked in some areas. It's not a perfect game but BioWare has addressed a lot of issues.
sad. I put in 2 hours a week. I love the game as a story and a more or less 1p with some help now and again kind of game. I just wish the f2p wasn't soooo restricted. (im mostly just complaining about the re-spawn droids being pulled) I can't afford to spend a monthly fee on this and f2p just got too restricted for me to accept going back. I've been on the same character since launch and I'm only now lvl 35. lol, so I'm the minority.
Here's a sampling of four MMO players and their playtimes:
Player 1: No life, averages 90 hours a week
Player 2: College student, plays about 25 hours a week
Player 3: Works, plays about 15 hours a week
Player 4: Work, family, etc...lucky if he gets 10 hours a week
Four players, 140 hours a week, average: 35 hours/week per player.
Yes, those no-lifers can be a problem.
Unemployment numbers for people 18-35 are enormous. I play with a few just on a single DayZ server. When I was unemployed years ago, gaming was the ultimate escape.
Not to mention one of my roommates in college, who played FFXI, left the room only for food or to hit the can. I don't think he ever attended class. He was playing when I left, and when I came back. He was playing when I went to sleep, and when I woke up.
Obsessive-compulsive gaming is quite common.
D
Deleted member 232162
Guest
Really dreary when you think about it, heh.
sad. I put in 2 hours a week. I love the game as a story and a more or less 1p with some help now and again kind of game. I just wish the f2p wasn't soooo restricted. (im mostly just complaining about the re-spawn droids being pulled) I can't afford to spend a monthly fee on this and f2p just got too restricted for me to accept going back. I've been on the same character since launch and I'm only now lvl 35. lol, so I'm the minority.
Best thing to do is buy a single time card for it for 30 days. When that expires you'll be preferred status and not free to play. Preferred is a lot less restricted and you'll always have that status if you've ever subscribed.
Reading this thread makes me nostalgic for what I thought TOR would be.
They hooked me with the class story lines, but lost me with the end game content.
Once you had the mechanics down of a hard mode flash point (which usually only took two runs), there was nothing to keep you going back. The raids were interesting, but so full of bugs that were game breaking.
The RNG of the champion PVP bags was another nail in the coffin. I was lucky as hell with my bags, but most of my friends who played were hit with the same shoulders 11 times in a row. Plus if you started end game PVP in the first few weeks of launch, anyone starting after that was at a huge disadvantage. Add in the fact that so many servers were so heavily Sith dominated (that's always a problem though with any faction based game), and it was too easy mode for me seeing as how there were so few Alliance to PVP against.
I tried playing again after it went F2P, but with the crafting restrictions, limited amount of BGs you could do, etc. etc., I didn't feel like plunking down $15 just to be bored again.
They hooked me with the class story lines, but lost me with the end game content.
Once you had the mechanics down of a hard mode flash point (which usually only took two runs), there was nothing to keep you going back. The raids were interesting, but so full of bugs that were game breaking.
The RNG of the champion PVP bags was another nail in the coffin. I was lucky as hell with my bags, but most of my friends who played were hit with the same shoulders 11 times in a row. Plus if you started end game PVP in the first few weeks of launch, anyone starting after that was at a huge disadvantage. Add in the fact that so many servers were so heavily Sith dominated (that's always a problem though with any faction based game), and it was too easy mode for me seeing as how there were so few Alliance to PVP against.
I tried playing again after it went F2P, but with the crafting restrictions, limited amount of BGs you could do, etc. etc., I didn't feel like plunking down $15 just to be bored again.
Eh, if it's how people want to live, more power to them. But then, I also support drug legalization, so maybe I'm nuts.
The end game content is much better now. Operations are far less buggy than they once were and are a lot of fun. Story mode operations can be queued through group finder now. Additional story modes will be queued in 2.0 as they are adding Astation and Denova to the group finder queue. Currently you just have Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace. The new operation coming in v2.0 is actually a shit load of fun as I've tried it on the public test server. New level 55 abilities are very interesting and class balancing is pretty solid for the most part. Assassin's DPS is shit on parses still but their abilities and utility makes up for it in both HM flashpoints and operations. They've added some nice achievement type quests for completing the World Boss fights and operation bosses. These can earn you cool mounts, titles etc. Crafting is improving in 2.0 as the range of what will be craftable and learned from reverse engineering is being extended.
There are interesting things for guild progression such as Dreadtooth and the Dreadful Entity fights. Defeat Dreadtooth on various stacks to earn 16 masks. Defeat him at 10 stacks to get the Amulet. Use the Amulet to summon the Dreadful Entity and kill that for an orb which has an unknown purpose but is tied to the new operation. (The masks are necessary to protect from a debuff which will kill you.) These fights are challenging as they leave little margin for error and you've got to get 16-24 people on the same page.
PvPs gear bag bullshit is totally gone. You earn commendations for equipment now. You just buy what you want with those commendations. If there is a faction imbalance the game will divide those queued in the same faction for PvP matches against each other. Ranked PvP is also a lot of fun.
As I said the game is very different post level 50 than it was prior to 1.3x.
I wish I had that much time to play games.
damn .... to each there own I guess. I played SWTOR and it was fun playing with co workers and such. But end game I got bored with, same as every MMO I have tried with exception of Asherons Call 2 (flame on) Ultima Online my first mmo and then WoW. AC2 closed , Ultima Online just never updated and I moved on , and WoW i gave up when I noticed I became the guy I hated ....... I was in Death and Taxes putting in 8-10 hours a day when we were #1 in the world. SWTOR is an exceptional game that I play from time to time as a casual MMO, and I play more for the story.
RogerTheEngineer
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2004
- Messages
- 668
Early access starts today. Anybody check it out yet?
GoldenTiger
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 30,004
Forum reviews actually sound positive overall on the official boards, interestingly enough. I'm considering playing for a few, not sure what I would need to read up on to get my character caught/set up and all that at this point though. My main was a Sentinel... shame the double XP weekends are done with, I would have liked to have finished off some alts
.QUESTIONS:
1) Are cartel coins able to buy high-end gear, or is it just cosmetic stuff? (hopefully the latter primarily).
2) How many warzones are there now? EDIT: Looks like 5.
3) Do you need a good guild for the hardest mode on the raids (I hope so!), or were they dumbed down/etc. since I last played (which was back I think around 1.2)?
4) How are server populations since the mergers? SWTOR is supposedly the #2 subscription MMO now... so I'm guessing it's got a nice playerbase at this point?
5) To do ranked warzones, how many people do you need to form up with (I think 8)?
6) I am going to guess any gear from L50 that was any good is now basically useless for L55, so effectively the game has undergone a soft gear reset?
Last edited:
RogerTheEngineer
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2004
- Messages
- 668
I just started up again, so I can only answer a few of these.
1) They can buy unlocks for non subs, xp boosts, pets, things like that, but I don't think you can get good PVP or PVE gear with them,
2) You got it
3) Can't say for sure, but I would imagine that the hard modes are still hard.
4) Server pop looks great.
5) You need a fell team (8), which is a shame. Hope they let 2 teams of 4 do it at some point.
6) Can't tell you yet, I haven't logged in since the 2.0 patch.
What server are you playing on?
1) They can buy unlocks for non subs, xp boosts, pets, things like that, but I don't think you can get good PVP or PVE gear with them,
2) You got it
3) Can't say for sure, but I would imagine that the hard modes are still hard.
4) Server pop looks great.
5) You need a fell team (8), which is a shame. Hope they let 2 teams of 4 do it at some point.
6) Can't tell you yet, I haven't logged in since the 2.0 patch.
What server are you playing on?
Forum reviews actually sound positive overall on the official boards, interestingly enough. I'm considering playing for a few, not sure what I would need to read up on to get my character caught/set up and all that at this point though. My main was a Sentinel... shame the double XP weekends are done with, I would have liked to have finished off some alts
QUESTIONS:
1) Are cartel coins able to buy high-end gear, or is it just cosmetic stuff? (hopefully the latter primarily).
2) How many warzones are there now? EDIT: Looks like 5.
3) Do you need a good guild for the hardest mode on the raids (I hope so!), or were they dumbed down/etc. since I last played (which was back I think around 1.2)?
4) How are server populations since the mergers? SWTOR is supposedly the #2 subscription MMO now... so I'm guessing it's got a nice playerbase at this point?
5) To do ranked warzones, how many people do you need to form up with (I think 8)?
6) I am going to guess any gear from L50 that was any good is now basically useless for L55, so effectively the game has undergone a soft gear reset?
1,) Cartel coins only purchase cosmetic items. There are some consumables like XP boosters and the like, but these are also quest rewards now while leveling.
2.) There are five I know of. Ancient Hypergate, Civil War, Novare Coast, Voidstar, and Huttball.
3.) Technically you could spam general chat looking for a pick up group to do anything. It's doubtful you'll get good results doing that. Also quite a few things such as Dreadtooth 10-stack and the Dreadful Entity do really require guild progression as they require a lot of teamwork and communication. Guilds make this much easier. Hard and Nightmare mode raids do not queue through the group finder queue also making a guild more important.
4.) Server populations are much better than they used to be. Performance with more players there is also improved over launch. It helps to turn off nameplates or nameplate scaling.
5.) A team of eight is required.
6.) Not true. According to BioWare if you have a full set of Dreadguard / Hazmat gear (Mod rating 63) then you won't need to upgrade your gear until level 54 or 55. There is some worth while gear which shows up at level 53 or so though but it isn't necessary. If you stopped playing at 1.2 then the best you'll have is full Rakata. Rakata, Columi and Tionese gear has been removed from the game effectively. However that gear is good enough to earn Black Hole / Campaign gear at level 50 in hard mode flashpoints. The second boss and beyond in all hard mode flashpoints all drop Black Hole gear. From there you can go into Story Mode operations which drop Hazmat gear. This will get you to level 54 or 55.
You do if your strictly free to play. Preferred status is for former subscribers. There are less restrictions for Preferred status members. That being said you can unlock only what interests you with Cartel coins if that's what you want to do.
I understand you can technically shout for anything, but is it something a skilled player would even bother entering the zone for? In Rift for example, I'd have no problem pugging into RoS or GSB, but I'd never even think about pugging HK. The monster mechanics in GSB & RoS made it so you could have an idiot or two on your team and still easily kill the mob through a few smart people and generally being overgeared (from HK of course). However, HK's mobs as you got about midway through the zone changed so that 1 mistake by anyone would wipe the group, making pugging a complete non-starter. Are the new zones where you really need 100% elite players to clear, or is more of the 25% elite players, 50% average players, and 25% idiots can clear the latest stuff?
GoldenTiger
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 30,004
Yeah, this is really what I was asking when I was talking about raids.
Thanks for the answers, guys. It does sound like it's a soft gear reset if even the top-end gear from L50 starts to get matched/outclassed by low-end L55 gear... not a bad thing, as it makes for a great jumping-on point.
And yeah, I would be subscribing of course.
@RCGodward, Yeah, two teams of 4 would be a lot simpler to slap together for rateds (I gather they're doable for a daily quest which you'd obviously want to get done regularly), in general. Though, as with anything else, if you have a good pool of players in a guild, it's not as huge of a deal.
I do not have enough MMO experience to compare SWTOR to anything else as I never did any endgame stuff on any other MMO I tried. Age of Conan was one I played the most and gave up around level 40 due to the bugs and lack of content.
I run a lot of Hard Mode Flashpoints and tons of Operations. As a result I've got some observations:
I've seen PUGs through the group finder utility turn simple story mode raids like Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace into wipefests. Simple mistakes even when you over geared for an operation can be disastrous. These operations are both launch content. Most players should know them by now unless they are brand new to the game. Still I've run into plenty of PUGs that make these way harder than they need to be. To give you an idea, prior to 2.0 Dreadguard gear was the highest level of gear in the game. 5 Dreadguard geared people couldn't make up for the fresh 50 retarded PUGs in Tionese / Columi gear. (3 levels down from the top tier of gear, which should be sufficient for both Story Mode operations.) You can carry one dumbass through an operation as long as they aren't a tank or a healer. You might be able to carry two idiots through the Story Mode (Easy version) of the operation under the right circumstances. Hard mode and Nightmare modes are virtually impossible to clear with idiots. The only people I know who can clear something like TFB HM or EC Nightmare Mode with consistency are people who run with the same raid team each and every week.
You run it with PUGs and sometimes you get lucky but not often. The hardest operations may not require 100% elite players to clear them but you'll probably need a couple that fit that description and then I'd say the rest need to be above average to good at the game to clear. Mechanics for fights in the game are rarely forgiving, especially to tanks and healers. These mechanics are usually easy enough to grasp but do take some practice. And again because they aren't forgiving one or two idiots can wipe the group regardless of chosen difficulty setting.
Actually funny you say that. Basically you queue an operations group of 8 in two columns as separate groups if you are queuing for unranked and ranked PvP simultaneously.
And right now is a good jumping in point as the old high level 50 gear is easy to obtain and it will take you through to level 54 or 55 if need be. And now everyone needs to do the grind for Arkanian and Underworld gear. So you are on more equal footing with the rest of the players.
That sounds like about what I'd expect from most MMOs these days. I think the days of MMOs having content that will be cleared by only the top <1% (until gear inflation in most cases) is something that will only exist in the past. I understand why this occurs, but it doesn't make me miss it any less.
I disagree. I don't think operations should require 8+ people with no lives who are top tier players to clear. It's a fucking game. Trust me the game is certainly challenging. Above all else the teamwork must be there. The Dreadtooth 10 stack fight is among the best examples of this. You need 24 people all on the same page and one mistake from anyone can cost the whole group the fight. It's one of the few where all party members must have the mechanics down.
GoldenTiger
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 30,004
Skill and having no life are not intertwined at all for MMORPG raiding. And yes, it's a game, but some do not find it enjoyable if it's ridiculously easy for them.
Like I said, many of the raids are not that easy. And even the "easy" ones turn into a cluster fuck if you have retards in the group. You can't carry dumbasses through these raids. There are certainly some which average players can do but then there are several that you've got to be a really good player to get through.
The problem with content that doesn't "require 8+ people with no lives who are all top tier players to clear" is when you play with all top tier players, the content is a face roll and you get bored really quickly waiting for the crap you want to drop. Playing through bosses where the mechanics are "don't stand in fire" or "DPS race" are really, really, boring designs and get old quick. Also, there is a difference between a boss where one mistake from anyone can cost the fight, and one mistake is auto loss (either instantly, or effectively). Look, I understand that the majority of people don't want content for the 1% people, but that doesn't stop the 1% from wanting that content and it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with having content that the majority of players are unable to conquer. Honestly, I think the most boring thing you can do in an MMO is there not be a higher challenge to reach for. If you can beat everything there is in the game, what's the point of getting better gear?
I agree, in fact most of the best players I've met don't play much out side of the time slots for raiding and probably play less than 10 hours a week.
No matter how easy content is, an idiot can fuck it up if it unless they simply aren't needed in the first place. Needing 20 people to do everything perfect is much, much, harder than needing 2 people to be perfect and 18 to be average.
I'd wager the majority of players haven't cleared EC Nightmare or TFB Hard Mode. Many haven't cleared EC Hard Mode either. I'd also bet most haven't fought the tougher world bosses with any success. The mechanics for many of the fights aren't quite that simple either. Certainly there are "don't stand in the AOE circles" and "DPS race" mechanics but that's not all there is. And you misunderstood me evidently.
There are people who can clear the harder raids with some consistently, but even at level 50 in full Dreadguard gear you don't face roll EC Nightmare. The groups I know that clear it with consistency do so only because the team is always running together and work well with each other. Yeah everything gets easy when you've done it a lot so groups can make it look easy now. But it wasn't when EC Nightmare came out. Even when people had mostly Dreadguard gear it wasn't easy. When anyone else subs in even if they are good things get a lot more difficult as unit cohesion is lost. Tons of MMO elitists swear the game is easy but it isn't. At least the higher difficulty raids aren't. When the game came out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace weren't easy either. When you are at or just below gear level for them it can be challenging unless you're doing it on an alt for the 5,000th time. When I did EV HM in Tionese gear it was a bitch. Most everyone has cleared EV and KP HM's or even nightmare modes because those were designed for Columi/Rakata gear. With game updates additional tiers of gear have been added so it's possible to over gear the piss out of these. Even when over geared I've still seen people fuck it up and wipe the group.
And no game company is going to make a game for the stupid fucking elitist 1%. It's bad business. Wish in one hand and shit in the other. I think one of the major reasons so called 1%'ers scream for shit only they can do is so they can finally feel a sense of accomplishment and rub it in the noses of others who can't do what they can. Be it due to lack of time to put into the game or lack of skill or whatever. Of course WoW is the standard but it was child's play compared to the elitist snob ridden MMO's that came before it. (That is my understanding at least.)
All the best players I know of play the game at least the much now but at one time they all played it 40+ hours a week. BioWare's own statistics support the fact that most people who actively played the game exceed 20 hours a week. Granted subscription numbers dropped and as content got old those numbers dwindle. Now that 2.0 and the expansion are here those same top tier players who only played the game 10-15 hours a week are back to playing it 20+ hours a week or more.
Evidently you didn't understand me. At no point did I ever say that you could do any of the higher difficulty raids with two top tier players and then fill out the group with average players for success. The average player can fuck up 4 man hard mode flashpoints and have little to no chance of clearing a lot of the raids. The average player has fucked up gear because they don't understand the way the gear works and know little to nothing about what any of the gear numbers mean. Hence why you have Marauders stacking endurance like a tank would and doing shit for damage.
The Dreadtooth 10-Stack fight is one I cited as an example as you do need 24 people all doing shit perfectly with little margin for error. Most of the fights aren't quite that tough but again it isn't as if 2 really good players can make up for 14+ fucking idiots.
Sorry you don't want the same things out of an MMO that I do. You're starting to throw names around that TBH, sound like I should be taking them personally but I'm sure you didn't intend them that way, it's just how some of that comes across. Old school MMOs were harder than most MMOs today, there's no question about that. They also had content that was never routinely cleared (or was adjusted or changed if it was), Absolute Virtue in FFXI would be an example. Always having a challenge is a good thing, and just because you are in the top 1% doesn't mean you shouldn't have a challenge.
I said making content for the 1% isn't a viable business model and it isn't. It's stupid for companies to cater to such a small percentage of their player base by making something only they can do. And you know how things work when companies make shit hard in games these days right? Lost Island was a flashpoint that gave tons of people problems because it was hard. It was specifically a tier 2 flashpoint. It seemed damn near impossible to PUG. Now it's been nerfed twice just to make people happy and placate whiners who weren't good enough at the game to clear it. The sad reality is that BioWare has to appease their larger customer base. WoW and every other MMO does it or did it in the past. MMOs of old sucked because taking 30 minutes to walk somewhere is a retarded game mechanic. Challenging for lots of reasons yes but challenge alone doesn't make something good.
I don't think you understand what I've been trying to say. Some of the raids in the game are hard and unforgiving. A lot of the game isn't but I think there are things in the game that both hardcore, top tier players and casual folks a like can enjoy in the game. Some of the raids are fucking hard. Others aren't. A good group can certainly face roll some operations and flashpoints, but they had to work up to it. If you've never played the game and you run into Eternity Vault now it's only going to be easy because the other 7 people or more already know it which reduces the learning curve for you as a new player. When these operations were knew and the game was new these things were a bitch. You'd try and try to master the mechanics and die repeatedly. This is why harder difficulty modes were added to some of the operations over time. Additional mechanics, increased damage, and changes in tactics are generally required to clear the harder versions.
Is it what super l33t ply3rs are looking for? I have no idea. That crowd rarely seems pleased by anything. But trust me the game is both fun and challenging in plenty of places. Some things in the game truly have to be earned the hard way. It's not perfect but I think it's a good game with a lot to offer and it really is getting better all the time.
Actually there are two things of value that aren't just cosmetic. Grade 7 ship components which only help with the space combat. Space combat is unfortunately not PvP or group oriented so being able to do those missions while others can't really isn't a big deal. It is purely optional. The rewards aren't exactly huge. You also have to be level 50 to use those items. So it doesn't aid in the leveling process.
The second item are Cartel Market crystals. They are random drops from cartel packs which provide the +41 bonus from only level 10. While helpful leveling these do not really impact anything in PvP as the bolster mechanics make them irrelevant until level 55. They are also no better and are only cosmetically different than standard level 50 +41 crystals. In other words they aren't more powerful but you can get them in PvE early if you want. These are also frequently sold on the GTN and many of them in less desirable colors can be had relatively cheap. If you've already got a character at level 50 then you should be able to afford one of these easily and then send it to the alt you want to level with it. There are other Cartel Market crystals which can straight up be purchased from the market but require you to be at least level 31 I believe.
I understand exactly what you are trying to say, and I disagree. Nissan made the GT-R, not to sell to the 99%, but to get people to buy their other products. It can make economic sense if done properly. There is also no reason new content can't be introduced with much harder tactics required and then when the next tier is introduced, the current content level's difficulty is dramatically reduced through mob changes and gear inflation.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask for that to come back.
Is there a reason you keep acting like I'm an asshole because I want harder content? Did I offend you or something? I'm sorry if I'm bored with the average difficulty of end game content in an MMO these days and want something harder. I guess that makes me a bad person.
Not trying to be an asshole. I'm also not sure why you think I am being one.
A Nissan GT-R isn't a great example. The fact is that it's priced out of most people's reach. Development of a performance car isn't that difficult. The added hardware comes at an increased price and such vehicles are built in small numbers to ensure they don't cost the company more than they bring in. Or if they do the idea is that a flagship product will bring attention to the brand and pay off in the grand scheme of things. It's basically like writing off advertising expenses. Software design and cars don't compare easily. I didn't say that content for the 1% was a bad thing. I said it makes no business sense to develop such content. All it would do is piss of the customer base until the content got nerfed so more people could complete it. I don't know if you actually play the game or not (doesn't sound like it) but as I've said there is content that's quite difficult to clear. It doesn't sound like that's good enough for you though. And if you want more then you'll most likely forever search for a greater challenge.
The fact is that business know what side their bread is buttered on. They'll cater to the masses first. Anything else is purely an afterthought.
Statements like these make it hard to read your posts without thinking at least some of this rage is directed at me for wanting a harder challenge.
I disagree completely. Having a challenge that you are unwilling to attempt with your current skill and gear makes a game feel like there's always a challenge around the corner. This is a good thing and should draw people in.
Bullshit. Games are made by a bunch of average people who take guesses at the way an economy and difficulty and what people will like and what they don't. Great MMOs are nothing more than lucky with the decisions they've made, and the ones that aren't simply waste away and die. By the statement above, RIAA knows what they're doing and the best path of buisness forward is to sue their customers and attempt to DRM their content to hell and back, despite hundreds of studies that suggest it is not the right approach.
Hell, lots and lots of companies thought and still think F2P isn't a viable business model, despite there being tons of F2P games that are MORE profitable than their non-F2P counter parts.
And yes, I have I tried the game well before it went F2P I looked at the (lack of) quality end game content and went on.
D
Deleted member 232162
Guest
Competition is great, challenge is great, but for most MMO's that are coming out after WoW, generally try to look before they leap. While we may WANT hardcore content, and while there is SOME, it will never be EQ. It will never be FFXI again. Or whatever the hell else was considered difficult.
Companies nowadays want everyone to be able to access shit, and I suppose that's kind of what Blizzard is doing with the hardcore and normal dungeons. Not overly hard, but hard enough for some people to feel like they're not forgotten.
Companies nowadays want everyone to be able to access shit, and I suppose that's kind of what Blizzard is doing with the hardcore and normal dungeons. Not overly hard, but hard enough for some people to feel like they're not forgotten.
Oh yes... especially the droid fight in Karagga Palace, or minefiled in Denova. Hell, even first boss on Lost Island HM can be impossible, if people don't intercept adds before they get to healer, and don't interrupt incinerate.