well its always like that for an update, so back it up to an external
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Official [H] Star Wars:The Old Republic Thread
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well its always like that for an update, so back it up to an external
never put stuff in the guild bank though...
fattypants
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This would be a great argument if it were 2004 right now and TOR were competing with 2004 WoW. There is one significant problem, however: it is 2012 and TOR is competing with 2012 WoW.
TOR's customers and potential customers don't care if they game will have more to do than WoW in 2004 or 2018. They want to know if it has more content now.
HaMMerHeD
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Speak for yourself.
I'll agree that you have to compare it to 2012 WoW, but you cannot base it on the amount of content available. Feel free to compare features (like the guild bank issue that has been discussed), but as far as playable content you simply cannot do it. Bioware would never have gotten the game to market if they tried to match WoW in that department out of the gun. Again, were talking about 7 years of content for WoW.
RealityCrunch
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It'll definitely be a split issue. Some of my friends who play it are happy with the amount of content / features / bugs and are playing it patiently / casually, some of them aren't so they cancelled their subs and moved back to MMOs that are already fully established. However, we have to assume the publisher knew this and is hoping that the Toddler they released into the room with the 800lb Gorilla will survive to grow up big and strong. 
The niche / casual MMO market isn't too bad these days, especially in the F2P area, if TOR does end up going there. Or who knows, the Toddler may out-wrestle the Gorilla
The niche / casual MMO market isn't too bad these days, especially in the F2P area, if TOR does end up going there. Or who knows, the Toddler may out-wrestle the Gorilla
Not just 7 years of content. Also 5 years of development. You can't expect a game, any game, to have a total of 5 years of development time along with an additional 7 years of content and bug fixing and expect it to launch at all at any reasonable price.
SWTOR with a 200m budget launched after 5 years of development. Games wouldn't get made if it took longer or cost more.
And at launch SWTOR has many features that WoW does not even today. And more than WoW had after it's 5 years of development. People forget just what wasn't in WoW at launch.
Now, i'm not saying that SWTOR isn't missing some must have features. Just that you can't expect more than 12 years of features and bug fixes in 5.
fattypants
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Oh wow, I'm totally borrowing this analogy! Nice one.
Nobody forgets. It's just that it's not relevant to today, because time machines haven't been invented yet. If we could take TOR back to 2004, it would absolutely mop the floor with WoW. But we can't.
TOR competes with 2012 WoW. If an incomplete product releases against a complete one, it absolutely must bring a lot to the table.
I agree that it's completely unfair for players to expect WoW-level completeness, but absolutely nobody's going to spend $180 a year on potential.
There's a reason that so many WoW killers have fallen by the wayside. Bioware needs to quadruple their efforts if they don't want to become AoC and Warhammer.
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RealityCrunch
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Well, it's kind of inevitable that their product will start out as a toddler. I guess I see a few factors in determining survivability. 1) How polished and bug free the game is at launch and several months in, 2) How much content / features there is, and 3) The cost of the product.
If the game is still fairly buggy and has a lack of content going into the first paid subscription month and the cost of the product and subscription fee is the same as competition that have more established products then I think it's natural that people are going to question where they want to go.
If the game is still fairly buggy and has a lack of content going into the first paid subscription month and the cost of the product and subscription fee is the same as competition that have more established products then I think it's natural that people are going to question where they want to go.
MMO's are never complete
And sure, each game brings more to the table. And I certainly think SWTOR has done that.
Are people going to drop $180/year on potential. Yes, some will. Maybe they will pay it based upon the foundation. But most will pay it because they do enjoy it. It doesn't necessarily have to be full of features that another MMO that's been out for much longer has in order to be fun.
In fact if it can be fun in less time I think it's doing something better!
That said, both warhammer and AoC are a success in that they are making profits for their developers. And both have features WoW does not.
And I would say that Bioware has put out enormous effort in a short span of time. 800 developers on 4 different continents all coming together to make a game is no small undertaking. Over 200,000 lines of dialogue already makes it the largest spoken word project in history. Over 1000 voice actors, over 4000 characters.
It is completely misleading to compare the amount of content wow has with swtor because a lot of that wow content is dead, trivial, and useless. I quit a long time ago, but I doubt people are doing gruul's lair, or SC, etc.
In any case, how can there be a lack of content if the vast majority of people aren't 50 yet, nevermind have cleared raids in all levels? This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Complain about the bugs or polish? sure. About lack of content? Don't get it.
greenhorn1
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My only complaint so far, and maybe it's just my server although I tried to pick one with high population, is that the game seems nearly empty. I was on taris for an hour last night and didn't see a single other player. I'm sure some places are more crowded but that's pretty rediculous.
Bowhuntr11
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Yeah that is my only complaint about the game...I haven't had any game breaking bugs...or any complaints about the gameplay...etc...
Only problem I have with the game is not enough players on planets and such. I wish they didn't instance the planets so easily. And I wish they wouldn't have gave in to the people whining that there was a "wait" during the first few days and opened more servers...
Only problem I have with the game is not enough players on planets and such. I wish they didn't instance the planets so easily. And I wish they wouldn't have gave in to the people whining that there was a "wait" during the first few days and opened more servers...
ben chi(f4)
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I really want to raid, but my guildies don't show up. It's so frustrating trying to build a guild. I heard EV was easy sauce and would love to raid. I miss raiding! I understand that building/managing a guild is difficult sometimes, but I wouldn't think it would take this much work.
You are 100 percent right. I was talking to my friend about this yesterday.
well the demand and expectation is just a bit too much, wonder how long the dev team will need for this..
This is why I will never have a guild again.
I did in WoW with MC and the biggest challenge was getting all 40 people to show up. It was a fucking nightmare. Never again. A LFR tool is probably the best design choice by WoW yet.
It isn't like they weren't aware of the competition. They should be already be aware of the high expectations. If they can't meet them, then they should probably find a different project.
The argument you guys are having between 2012 WoW and TOR is kind of misleading. I mean, lets look at it like this, EQ2 was always a superior game to WoW, and even launched before WoW. It has tons more content, and releases at least a major game expansion per year, and a minor one on the between 6 month periods. The reason why WoW won on that was that it was so much easier than EQ2. Not that it was a better game, just easier and open to the masses. So content only goes so far, because if the WoW fan base wanted more content, they would raid in EQ2 with quadruple the amount of raid zones and probably 10x the amount of raid bosses, with the same interface and control scheme, but they don't. So your argument about content can only be partially correct...
TheCowOfNow
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LFR is great for seeing the content, but I think it cheapens the experience. Just my opinion. 10 man Naxx or Ulduar were much more intense experiences for me with my guild and maybe a PUG or two. I don't know how we used to get 40 people together, but we always managed to figure something out. i think loot tokens were an epic improvement. Watching those fucking lightbringer shit drop every week would make me want to cry.
It's sad, but this is all by design because their engine simply can't handle a lot of players in one area at once. I built a new system for BF3 just a few months ago... Z68, i5 2500K, Radeon 6990, 8GB Ram, SRT with 60GB SSD & 2TB HDD... and I still stutter along at about 15-20 FPS in the Imperial fleet during prime time. Granted, I'm running at max settings across a triple monitor setup, but still... When the patch came out and people were flocking to Ilum, the game became unplayable near where all the "action" was taking place and I was seeing low single digit framerates.
I get FAR better performance in BF3 and that game obviously looks waaay better than TOR. They just have a terribly inefficient engine and it limits a lot of what they can do with it.
Splinter24
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I'll believe it when I see it, but I certainly hope so.
timtheenchantor
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Wrong patch notes :|
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GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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I hope so!
mrgstiffler
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Because that's exactly what we need, even LONGER CC.
I actually have run into that with the Radeon HD 7970. I didn't get a chance to play very long but so far today, it hasn't done that. It might actually be fixed.
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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Yeah ,I saw it a lot on my 6870. Sure hope it's fixed!
So far it seems to be. Though I haven't traveled to Hoth which is where the problem seemed the worst.
greenhorn1
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no mention of nerfing cybertech ship mods which I only noticed because I FINALLY managed to get the materials to craft my first piece of grade 2 ship armor last night which granted 3000 armor and blasts did 3 damage each when I equipped it last night. Today that is down to 2100 armor with the same damage. Not much difference for all the effort it took me but oh well, was just messing around with crafting for fun anyway.
Does it really matter if the Space Combat is broken? I thought as it stands the space missions are more of an after thought anyways.
It's actually one of the least broken since it is so simple and meaningless other than being the easiest way to get exp when you're doing the dailies for it at least.
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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Mine started @ Taris
ashmelev75
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That's not today's patch. Today's patch is much smaller:
1.1.0b Patch Notes - 1/24/2012
General
o Implemented optimizations to improve performance on Republic and Imperial Fleets.
Classes and Combat
o Significantly improved the delay when activating player abilities, particularly when in lower framerate situations. This allows for improved ability responsiveness in hectic combat situations.
Operations
General
o Operations will no longer allow more than 16 Operations Group members to enter concurrently.
Karagga's Palace
o G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator will no longer respawn more than once if players have not defeated Karagga.
o Fixed an exploit that would allow players to repeatedly loot the chest after defeating Jarg and Sorno.
Miscellaneous Bug Fixes
o Fixed an issue that could cause graphical inconsistencies, which most often manifested as random screen "flickering."
timtheenchantor
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Good correction! Edited my post.
I saw it there on occasion, but not to the same degree it occured on Hoth. This is around the time I changed from my GTX 580's to the Radeon HD 7970.
GOD'SlittleSERVANT
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ATI.... ugh.
Splinter24
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woop woop!!