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Official Crysis 2 Thread

I think that's just another way of saying that graphics quality was compromised through various tricks and designs to achieve better performance, which is what optimization basically is.
 
Hooray for Crybabytek for actually making a singleplayer FPS that is longer than five hours, though. That's like a huge achievement these days.
 
I think the problem is that ultimately, creativity and greed don't go hand in hand, but without the first the latter is short lived. The PC has always been on the vanguard for innovation and creativity, and many of the most profitable games have been the result of the free spirit fostered in this platform. Think of how many popular games actually begun as mere mods. With greed restricting freedom and companies focusing entirely on the lowest common denominator, video games are going to end up like Hollywood. Companies will continue to milk brands and make sequels because all creativity has been snuffed out and there's no developer left to try new things, and an industry without innovation is a dead industry. Those companies are essentially digging their own graves. The future may appear to be rosy now, but i predict that the market will eventually collapse upon itself. Perhaps i'm just being optimistic but its not like it didn't happen before.

So why bother bitching about a situation that may resolve itself on its own, even if it has to go through a big crisis? Well, since the problem is lack of freedom for developers, many of whom aren't in it only because of the money (no creative field really is), i think its probably important to maintain standards, and support creativity when we find it. It may not be much but at its better then nothing.

BTW, its not consoles per-se that are the problem here, but the xbox. Before Microsoft introduced that infernal machine the console market was a completely different entity that had nothing to do with PC games. If it wasn't for those bastards at Microsoft things wouldn't look so grim for us.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
I think that's just another way of saying that graphics quality was compromised through various tricks and designs to achieve better performance, which is what optimization basically is.
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Optimization in the context of this discussion means getting performance for little to no visual penalty. As an example, using a vertex buffer with an index buffer as opposed to using a traditional vertex array — massive increase in geometry performance on modern hardware for no visual quality penalty. The complaint regarding Crysis was that the game allegedly didn't deliver the type of performance that satisfied the game's level of visual quality. No one complained about the level of visual quality and detail, which is to this day still quite high, though performance was arguably lacking.
 
The visual quality was irrelevant to a lot of folks when the game ran like crap on their systems.
 
That has nothing to do with the claim that people are suggesting Crysis 2 is "too optimized".
 
heatlesssun said:
The visual quality was irrelevant to a lot of folks when the game ran like crap on their systems.
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The game ran like crap because of the visual quality, or least people expected it to be that way. Whether that was the case or not, its a different matter.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
I think that's just another way of saying that graphics quality was compromised through various tricks and designs to achieve better performance, which is what optimization basically is.
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Well by that argument you can just "optimize" the game further by setting the visual quality to medium or low (i mean, really?). The graphics of Crysis 2 haven't been optimized, they have been flat out dumped down. Crytek scarified visual quality for performance. That's not what optimization is.
 
heatlesssun said:
The visual quality was irrelevant to a lot of folks when the game ran like crap on their systems.
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The game ran like crap when noobs tried to run it at max settings on 6800GTs. At lower settings on lower hardware, it was fine.
 
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Is the music really that bad? Inon Zur's really outdone himself with this one.
 
phide said:
Optimization in the context of this discussion means getting performance for little to no visual penalty. As an example, using a vertex buffer with an index buffer as opposed to using a traditional vertex array — massive increase in geometry performance on modern hardware for no visual quality penalty. The complaint regarding Crysis was that the game allegedly didn't deliver the type of performance that satisfied the game's level of visual quality. No one complained about the level of visual quality and detail, which is to this day still quite high, though performance was arguably lacking.
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I remember many complaints about how Crysis looked no better than CoD:MW and even Far Cry. I could almost believe that these people were trolling, but it's more likely that they were that spiteful. But yeah, I think that the level-headed crowd knew that it looked great but ran like crap.

Regarding the lack of optimization, I never really dug deep into it, but was there any technical evidence that it was indeed poorly optimized? I can't think of any retail game that demonstrated better. I tend to assume that optimization compromises quality in various ways. Some visually lossless, such as not building the other half of a mountain if players aren't meant to go there. Or something more noticeable, like a crappier looking motion blur which runs faster.
 
heatlesssun said:
But greed is just a fact of life, from corporations to individuals and bitching won't change that. If PC gamers don't like what's becoming of gaming they need to find a way to make it worthwhile for someone to develop games they they will buy in large numbers instead of pirate to hell and back.

It's really that simple. No romance without finance as they say.
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Crysis 1 sold very well. Yeah it was pirated, but you can't argue that Crysis 1 and Warhead didn't sell well. I dont think it was ever going to sell better than it did even if you took piracy completely out of the equation.
 
Tudz said:
Crysis 1 sold very well. Yeah it was pirated, but you can't argue that Crysis 1 and Warhead didn't sell well. I dont think it was ever going to sell better than it did even if you took piracy completely out of the equation.
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fold well for a PC exclusive but Crysis 2 looks to be on track to sell better though of course being multi-platform that's to be expected.

And it really doesn't matter as much what consumers think of the effects of piracy as what developers think of it. Consumers aren't making the games and by an overwhelming margin developers are totally put off by piracy. Maybe they make too much of it in relation to their profits but the effect of piracy on the PC gaming market is chilling, i.e. fewer games and fewer developers willing to take risks on the PC. There's just no denying this.
 
heatlesssun said:
And it really doesn't matter as much what consumers think of the effects of piracy as what developers think of it. Consumers aren't making the games and by an overwhelming margin developers are totally put off by piracy. Maybe they make too much of it in relation to their profits but the effect of piracy on the PC gaming market is chilling, i.e. fewer games and fewer developers willing to take risks on the PC. There's just no denying this.
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Yeah and that's the problem. We know how much of a big deal Cervat made about the piracy of Crysis 1 which he then used as an excuse (genuine or not we dont know) for the move to consoles. I've mentioned in other threads that I bought Crysis 1 at launch (either day 1 or 2 I dont remember) and had to download a "pirated" crack in order to play it because the game wouldn't fucking work. Over the course of owning the game I would have downloaded a no-CD crack at least half a dozen times. So to Crytek do I register as 1 sale and half a dozen pirates? lol.

Of course it doesn't really matter what consumers think about it... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it, because in the end that applies to everything and if we stopped talking about things that consumer opinion is meaningless about then the forum wouldn't exist :p At least if people talk about it on enough forums its been shown that devs do look at forums and will hear.

Honestly I do think game devs look at game enthusiast forums... if they're passionate about gaming enough to take game development up as their full time job they surely must be interested enough to have at least some of them frequenting various forums.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah and that's the problem. We know how much of a big deal Cervat made about the piracy of Crysis 1 which he then used as an excuse (genuine or not we dont know) for the move to consoles.
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They would have moved to consoles anyway. That's where the money is and look at the end result.
 
I just finished the SP. Ending was a bit "meh", but it usually is for these sorts of games.

Overall I thought the game was alright, nothing terribly special. On a whole the graphics were good, some ugly textures here and there and some weird SSAO affects. There was quite a few little bugs that I listed previously which were kinda frustrating.

As far as a game in concerned, I think it was better than the first Crysis. It could have been more open at times in how you wanted to approach a level, but it still was quite open in how you approach each encounter. Often after taking out a big baddy I'd find some weapons thinking "oh, I could have used this missile launcher instead of running across the map and getting the heavy machine gun". And the levels are large enough for you to try and flank the AI or the AI to flank you if you decide to sit still doing nothing.

I actually think the lack of open-ness wasn't a limitation because of consoles being unable to render the large environments, but rather a design choice. Because there are a few occasions where you are presented with a pretty large "battleground" on which a certain encounter takes place. Toward the end of the last level is pretty open, making me think if consoles are capable of handling an area that large all in 1 hit, the choice to "linearise" the levels was a design choice rather than a hardware limitation.
 
Happy days the flashing is fixed !!!

I just noticed today, that amd had released a new CCC on march 29 and that new profiles had been released on the 31st. I just installed these and I am happy to say that all the flashing is gone. My 6950s (6970 mod) now work great with the game.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Regarding the lack of optimization, I never really dug deep into it, but was there any technical evidence that it was indeed poorly optimized?
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Haha no, of course not. You only have to look at some of Crytek's siggraph presentations to appreciate that their tech people know what the fuck they're doing. I trust their graphics coding skills much more than I do some butthurt forum yahoo with a low-end PC and an overblown sense of entitlement. No one's managed to do better since, not even Crytek, although to listen to some you'd think any monkey could manage it.
 
Crysis 2 has sold better than any other EA game this year, including Dead Space 2 and Dragon Age 2, so you can pretty much seal the coffin on any expectations that they give a fuck what any of us here think.

What made Crysis and Warhead so demanding was the lighting, or the way the lighting interacted with the environment, including shadows and foliage. The only optimization issue is that the original didn't scale well with SLI at all until it was patched, and I don't think it takes advantage of quad-core either.
 
I've just reached my second major issue - hopefully someone has experienced this crash-to-desktop and has a workaround..

While loading 'eye of the storm', after the mission 'power out'
This is the mission which ends with you killing the pinger, going into the spear, being thrown out, and then using the defibrillator to get going again
it goes through the entire loading video with Gould and then crashes to the desktop. Any solutions other than to have to play it all over again?

EDIT: I spoke too soon! For anyone who has this issue, go to start a new game and click 'replay mission' - I didn't notice that Eye of the Storm is already selectable, so just hit that and it loaded up no problem.
 
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I'm playing through the game on the 360 and I'm less than thrilled.

Crytek has learned nothing from its mistakes with the first Crysis - enemy AI is still abysmally pathetic and guns still do fuck-all damage at ranges greater than 20 metres. The AI is particualrly broken when it comes to the cloak - even when you get the so-called "stealth kill", enemies will all be alerted to your exact position through walls and thus rendering the cloak useless...or you get the other extreme where a guy standing 10 feet away watches his buddy get knifed by a ghost and keeps on ogling the wall in front of him. Having to expend energy for almost every action other than walking is beyond boneheaded, and where the hell is "maximum speed"?

There are some lovely console-specific frustrations too - the controls range from being adequate to flat-out terrible, and there is significant and uncomfortable input lag which makes fine-aiming with the goddamned controller even harder. Graphics are patchy at best, looking nice at a distance but rocks a hell of a lot of extremely low-res textures.

While I haven't played it, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the PC version is probably the best. The console version of Crysis 2 is certainly not as slick as the console versions of a lot of other FPS titles.
 
Plague_Injected said:
I'm playing through the game on the 360 and I'm less than thrilled

. . .

While I haven't played it, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the PC version is probably the best. The console version of Crysis 2 is certainly not as slick as the console versions of a lot of other FPS titles.
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FWIW, I did not notice any issues with damage at range or input lag.
The stealth kill thing is annoying, though. there have been several times where I will kill a guy, while invisible, in a room by ourselves, with no windows, and someone in an adjacent room opens fire.
Though i have never had a baddie NOT notice me if he is nearby and I drop his partner.
 
Plague_Injected said:
I'm playing through the game on the 360 and I'm less than thrilled.

Crytek has learned nothing from its mistakes with the first Crysis - enemy AI is still abysmally pathetic and guns still do fuck-all damage at ranges greater than 20 metres. The AI is particualrly broken when it comes to the cloak - even when you get the so-called "stealth kill", enemies will all be alerted to your exact position through walls and thus rendering the cloak useless...or you get the other extreme where a guy standing 10 feet away watches his buddy get knifed by a ghost and keeps on ogling the wall in front of him. Having to expend energy for almost every action other than walking is beyond boneheaded, and where the hell is "maximum speed"?

There are some lovely console-specific frustrations too - the controls range from being adequate to flat-out terrible, and there is significant and uncomfortable input lag which makes fine-aiming with the goddamned controller even harder. Graphics are patchy at best, looking nice at a distance but rocks a hell of a lot of extremely low-res textures.

While I haven't played it, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the PC version is probably the best. The console version of Crysis 2 is certainly not as slick as the console versions of a lot of other FPS titles.
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Since you decided to post this in 2 threads I'll post my response here as well :p

me said:
The "stealth kill" I soon discovered isn't all that stealthy because you uncloak momentarily while killing them. I can't say I've noticed the AI discovering me "through walls" when stealth killing though, but to be honest once I discovered the enemy could see me I didn't bother with stealth kills anymore.

The REAL stealth kill is simply the headshot with a silenced gun while cloaked. Especially if you get the stealth suit upgrade (which I highly recommend). On more than one occasion I've taken out 3 CELL dudes all while never leaving cloak and no one seeing me. They'll come over to investigate the corpse only to be gunned down in the same fashion.

The aliens are much smarter when it comes to cloak, they'll see/hear you more easily, they also dont go down to a silenced weapon to the head quite so easily, so by the time you take one out you're usually out of energy and have to uncloak.

I haven't actually tried the MP yet. Only played the demo MP. Cloakers weren't too bad in the demo. Yeah, occasionally you'll get back stabbed by a cloaker, but its outweighed by the number of times you spot the cloaker shifting, see their shadow or have nanovision on so you can see them clear as day. If you spot and shoot a cloaker its almost a guaranteed kill. In the demo by far the best suit power was armour. Swapping to armour as soon as you get into a firefight lets you take huge amounts more damage. More than once a cloaker started shooting at me first, but I swapped to armour and in the end brought them down.
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I love sniping aliens with a silenced sniper gun (DSG?) by temporarily decloaking, headshot (or backshot where they're also squishy) and back to cloak. There's surprisingly very little lag to decloak/recloak so you can just do that little sequence without losing any energy. Only time this trick didn't really work is when the CELL soldiers with the electical gun shoot you instantly with their god-like reaction (on post-human warrior difficulty), making you lose all your energy anyway.
 
I just finished Times Square and that was intense. The Aliens AI is really good and even in normal difficulty, it's absolutely no mercy on the aliens part.

Now I'm back to fighting CELL and it's not nearly the same thing. Playing against aliens is really challenging and rewarding.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
I love sniping aliens with a silenced sniper gun (DSG?) by temporarily decloaking, headshot (or backshot where they're also squishy) and back to cloak. There's surprisingly very little lag to decloak/recloak so you can just do that little sequence without losing any energy. Only time this trick didn't really work is when the CELL soldiers with the electical gun shoot you instantly with their god-like reaction (on post-human warrior difficulty), making you lose all your energy anyway.
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I prefer the silent kill myself. I've finished whole levels by silently killing about 90% of the enemies, even levels with just aliens, which I find are much more challenging than the CELL.
 
I finished the single player campaign over the weekend, and in total I thought it was OK (maybe a 7/10) - the story was quite muddled, and the pace definitely faltered a few times (it didn't help that there were a few parts where the objective didn't seem clear, only for me to realize that the script which should have initiated never did, resulting it me having to replay a section over).

In my opinion one of the best segments was 'Eye of the Storm' which is towards the end of the game. As with Crysis 1 and Far Cry before it my favorite enemies were always the humans, and this segment was not only all human but it allowed you multiple routes of completion. Very satisfying.

Graphically it didn't push the boundaries, but I thought overall the presentation was fantastic and it ran well. Gameplay was unfortunately more focused than before, and perhaps it was the map design but it felt a bit less tactical than the first one. Overall I'm still a bit disappointed that I paid full price, but there you go.
 
I think the way the areas were designed, you could do most of the hunting from the "entrance" of where you came from, so there was less of a need to run around being tactical. With the original being larger and more vast, it was possible to approach an encampment from multiple directions with little cover, requiring you to run around a lot.
 
computerpro3 said:
Anyone know how to fix the input lag? IT feels like mouse smoothing is on or something.
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Yes I do, turn off vsync. This engine is terribad with vsync on as far as mouse/input lag goes. I tried to play with it on for a few minutes and I almost puked. Had to turn it off and I now have a precise mouse again.
 
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