Oculus vs Vive IQ?

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by BababooeyHTJ, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. BababooeyHTJ

    BababooeyHTJ [H]ardness Supreme

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    I haven't gotten the chance to try out a vive. I'm curious about IQ between the two. I know that they use different style lenses and from what I hear the vive doesn't suffer from the godrays which I find by far the most annoying thing about my rift. White text on a black background looks horrendous. Its not bad or noticeable in game the vast majority of the time but killed Affected for me. I couldn't block it out. Reminded be of stereoscopic 3d crosstalk. I'm shocked that I don't see it bought up more. Everyone mentions resolution and sde which I don't find much of an issue. Lenses are by far the weak point on the rift imo. Just wondering what concessions were made on the vive lenses and how the two compare.

    Edit: Don't get me wrong. I love my rift. Just trying to get other people's input on the lenses.
     
  2. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    From what I have heard, the Vive has better FOV, better brightness, and is much better for folks with glasses (maybe not IQ related but still). The Rift doesn't have the concentric circles of the Fresnel lenses that the Vive has, so some people argue that it's a bit better in that regard. However, I have heard about issues with god ray artifacts on the Rift, so either way you have some artifacts due to the lens.

    I like my Vive a lot. My only real complaints are the resolution (which is the same on both) and the circle artifacts from the Fresnel lenses, which is not a huge deal for brighter games, but with dark backgrounds and light text, you really notice them.
     
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  3. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I own and use both. The differences are actually very negligible to me. Yes, the Rift suffers a bit more with god-rays, but they are present in the Vive as well given the right scene... most developers are learning to steer clear of dark/black scenes with bold white text - you typically only see this in game intro screens or with menus. Yes, its slightly annoying, but its not a show stopper. The really big difference I experience when using the two is that the focus/sweet spot is slightly bigger with the Rift - the image is somewhat better in focus across the entire sight picture/view - i.e. when you move your eyes around (not your head) to look at things, everything seems more in focus on the Rift. With the Vive, things tend to get a bit more blurry around your periphery then with the Rift, so you find yourself moving your head more to look directly at something to keep it better in focus. (This is especially noticeable with text or fine detail.) The FOV with the Vive also seems to be a tiny bit larger as well, but then there's also a slightly more pronounced screen door effect with the Vive. Again, all of these differences are very slight/subtle. You wouldn't even notice them unless you switch back and forth between the HMDs a lot. For the most part, the delivered visuals are pretty much identical to me - so much so that I really don't favor one over the other when it comes to how things look using them.

    As to image resolution, ya I want 8K already! However, given the right game and a developer that knows how to exploit current VR tech, the imagery is amazing in VR. Playing something like The Lab or Robo Recall and you really are blown away by how good VR looks right now... and its only going to get better!
     
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  4. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I found the Vives focal point to be much smaller than the Rifts.
    The Rift is still in focus left and right of the centre, the Vive is a spot in the middle and is more blurry outside that as well.
    Its easy to see the fresnel lense rings on the Vive and the image is streakier.
    The Vive has a wider FOV but at the expense of stretching the pixels which makes the screen door effect worse.
    The Rift has shaped lenses to put more pixels in the centre and it works.

    My experience is the Vive isnt good enough, the Rift is.
    Thats not taking into account the sound system usability, sound quality, overall weight, weight distribution, annoying cables and hand controllers, all of which favour the Rift.
    The only thing annoying about Rift is the Facebook connection.
    I bought the Vive first and couldnt stand it. I asked for assistance and got none, not even a peep.
    I got so little response that I couldnt even return it, my bank refunded me in the end, I actually still have it in a box !!

    The Rift is what I was looking for, much better.
     
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  5. VulcaN

    VulcaN [H]ard|Gawd

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    The rift is really much better, and its a shame because of the facebook connection as mentioned.

    The Vive excels at roomscale but its a one trick pony. Assuming you manage to get your rift setup so that its *close* to the roomscale capabilities of the vive (you can never 100% match it with the rifts shitty camera tracking) then you will enjoy:
    More comfortable for long sessions (lighter, better weight distribution)
    built in headphones
    better visual clarity
    better controllers

    Sure if you just want to show off drunken bar fight to friends and play a few quick games because hurrrr VR, then the vive works just as good

    Its when you sit down for a 2+ hour play session that you really notice the rifts comfortableness.
    Its when you try to read text (like surfing the internet and using virtual desktop) that you apperciate the extra clarity that makes it easier on the eyes and causes less fatigue over time
    Its when you dont have to screw around with dangling earbuds or seperate headphones again and again that you appreciate the built in open ear design

    The biggest deciding factor for me is as mentioned, with the vive its very clear in the center, looking forward and progressively gets blurrier towards the outside of the screen. If you want to look around and have things like text be in focus, you have to move your head to keep that center sharp focal point aimed at what you want to read. You cant just glance with your eyes to the corner of the screen or its blurry.

    With the rift, its clear over more of the display area, so you can keep your head still and look with your eyes like you do in real life.

    This is especially apparent when sitting in a airplane cockpit and you want to glance down at a gauge with your eyes and not move your head so that you're still facing forward and scanning out the cockpit glass. It also makes it easier to scan the sky for threats that may be far off in the distance and only render as a pixel in the sky. Again this added clarity has no benefit really in a game like drunken bar fight or another simple low resolution title (like job simulator). But in a complex flight simulation it can really make or break the experience.

    I had the vive for quite some time and the only thing I miss is superior roomscale tracking and the pass through camera.

    It sucks each device cant have the best of both worlds because I'm not loyal to any brand, I just want facebook out of my living room and the highest quality possible in my VR headset.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  6. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Rift is for those that want to sit at the desk and game in VR, and the Vive is for those that want to get up and be in the action. Pretty simple.
     
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  7. NeloDiavolo

    NeloDiavolo Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for this reply. My brother and I have both wanted a Vive for some time but realistically I have no space for room scale right now. This 200 price drop has me turning towards Rift country.

    Add in what you said plus Rift being compatible with Steam means that it's going to be my first VR headset.

    Well soon, right after my 1080ti AIB purchase!
     
  8. DPI

    DPI [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I've got both Rift and Vive. Everyone I let try the Rift complains about the nose gap (space that lets light in). I'm sure there's a way to mickey mouse some material to fill the gap but I'm leaning toward returning it anyway because the tracking with 2 sensors isn't as good as the Vive (I know 3 sensors is supposed to improve it but I don't want to spend even more on it), it requires USB cables and extenders running all over the place, and whenever I bump or have to move the Rift sensors I have to re-run the room calibration which is a hassle. Vive sensors just sit up in the corners of the room out of the way.

    That said, the Rift is definitely the lighter headset, but the thinner 3-in-1 cable I just got for the Vive mitigates the cable clutter somewhat. I'm also split on which controllers I like better - the Vive controllers feel more natural for games where you're holding a weapon like a sword or bow (Vanishing Realms), but the Oculus touch controllers are pretty nice for games where you're holding a gun (Robo Recall). I have a feeling the knuckles controllers releasing from Valve will be the hotness since they'll allow you to have your palms open.

    Really nothing bad to say about either set, they're very close and both a lot of fun. I can't wait until Fallout 4 VR is revealed at E3. I am a little apprehensive about buying games through Oculus Home though because I prefer all my games in one place in Steam, and I know Steam isn't going anywhere. Oculus seems a little more shaky and they don't really have sales on games or a very good review system - it's barebones as stores go.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  9. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    If you order a new 3-in-1 cable now do you get the smaller round one??????
     
  10. pj-

    pj- Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it's been that way for months now.

    It's actually a few grams heavier but it gets in the way so much less
     
  11. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I only noticed the nose gap when I had all the room lights on.
    With just the wall lights on it largely vanished.
    See if you can use dimmer lighting when VRing.


    I found roomscale to be no worse than Vive in a 2x2m play area and 2 sensors.
    the sensors are about 3m apart, I have to tell the setup to continue despite it complaining but it works great.
     
  12. DPI

    DPI [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah playing in total darkness or low light isn't ideal when I've got people over, and the trouble with the Rift roomscale is when you get turned around and have your back to the sensors - total occlusion and the tracking stops. With the Vive sensors there is no dead zone because if your back is to one sensor, youre facing the opposite sensor.
     
  13. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    I have a Rift. It's fine, but if I had it to do again, I'd go with a Vive.

    The Rift's lenses mitigate the screen door effect inherent to the low resolution, and it's a little more ergonomic, but I think the Vive is a better thought out setup in general.
     
  14. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Picture of how your sensors are set up?
     
  15. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I have 3 sensors, 2 in front about 5 feet apart and 1 behind and to the right. I believe this is the setup rift recommends and it works beautifully.
    I also set my safety zone a bit larger than my play area which is probably not the best idea after my TV fiasco but it works.
    I can play in any direction with no problems.
     
  16. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Approximately as in the image, sensors perhaps a little wider apart.
    I havent noticed any occlusion other than a very occasional momentary glitch, I expected worse.
    floor map.jpg
    If it was not acceptable I would have got a 3rd sensor.

    I had similar momentary glitches with the Vive and a diagonal setup.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  17. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    My room is nowhere near dark when playing but I have no lighting coming from above, its only wall lit.
    Do you have a light colour floor?
     
  18. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    I mounted my Vive sensors to the walls on opposite sides of the room. I have to cover the windows and TV as reflections mess with the sensors, but after that, it works perfectly. And no wires in the way.
     
  19. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    I do both :) But I do play sit down elite dangerous with my friends. I have my rift sensors mounted to the walls using CCTV mounts from Ebay for $5 a set and the experience has been nothing short of stellar.

    What I find very interesting is that when I sit down in VR, my sensors are not even close to facing me (Looking overtop of me) and they still work perfectly accurate.
     
  20. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I also ordered the camera mounts. I need to do the front 2 still. They work great in making it easy to get the best angle.
     
  21. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    My sensor setup:

    tmp_10029-sketch-1490196606882-1723285027.jpg

    I used the trick of mounting the two opposite corner Rift cameras directly to the camera mount holes on the bottom of each Vive lighthouse sensor. My PC is located in the corner with the lone Rift camera. (I'll follow-up tonight with some pics of how my sensors are mounted.) For roomscale, you definitely want them all mounted high up, pointing down at roughly 45 degress.

    The VR roomscale experience for me at least is identical between the Rift and the Vive. With a larger space, a 4 camera setup might be needed for the Rift, one in each corner, however, I've found the 3 camera setup works perfectly for me.

    Kyle, I'd agree with your statement about the Vive doing roomscale better - at least out of the box, but if you buy the extra camera sensor and take the time to set it up right, then the roomscale experience is identical between the Vive and the Rift.
     
  22. VulcaN

    VulcaN [H]ard|Gawd

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    Did you get any errors or have to do any tricks during sensor setup with them 12-15 ft apart?
     
  23. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    For the two in opposite corners, I tweaked the angle up just a bit, perhaps 40 degrees instead of 45. Both are running off dedicated USB 3.0 ports. Zero issues as to setup. I started with the HMD/controllers right in the center of the room when kicking off the setup config.
     
  24. bobzdar

    bobzdar Gawd

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    I'm running a similar setup except my right sensor is closer to the center of the area and occasionally get jumping tracking if I'm facing away from both sensors and crouched down - and then it's the hands that have issue, not the head. It's rare enough that I don't think I'll bother with a 3rd sensor. The limiting factor in my setup so far is the length of the cord attached to the headset.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  25. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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  26. BababooeyHTJ

    BababooeyHTJ [H]ardness Supreme

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    I really wish that I had enough room for roomscale. Seems like it would be an amazing experience.
     
  27. DPI

    DPI [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Once you play Vanishing Realms in roomscale, there's no going back to seated or standing-only. It's like you're there.
     
  28. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    How much space does one need??? My biggest prob is the low (guessing 8 foot ceilings in the basement.. edit, actually 7'10").

    No prob for other family members but im 6'4".
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  29. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Guess I'm lucky to have 8' 8" ceilings in my basement man cave/entertainment area. My PC/VR area takes up half the room and the other half is devoted to the home theater setup.

    So, again this is what my setup looks like:

    Basement_Setup.jpg

    I used these wall mounts for the sensors in the opposing corners:

    mounts.jpg

    Great little mounts by the way - all very nice/solid metal, no flimsy plastic bits.

    I combined my Vive lighthouses with my two Rift cameras using these adapters:

    adapter.jpg

    Mounted, this is what it looks like in the upper right corner of the VR space (same sensor combo/two different angles):

    sensors3.jpg sensors3a.jpg

    And like this at the opposite corner of the VR space (the other sensor combo):
    sensors1a.jpg sensors1.jpg

    And finally the lone 3rd Rift camera elevated on the upper portion of my PC desk's top shelf:
    sensors2.jpg sensors2a.jpg

    Works great so far and very little cable mess. (The first sensor has a closet behind the wall, so I was able to completely hide the cables and run them along the inside of the closet and then back out the opposite side of the room to the PC desk.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  30. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    Nice clean setup.. what usb cables did you get to work for extensions?
     
  31. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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  32. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    Did you have to use a power adapter for the 16 foot extension? Seems like it would be an issue doing so on the component end.
     
  33. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    ^ I could see an all-white version of these cameras/sensors being popular, perhaps enclosed within a fire-detector-style shell

    oh, and also, title should read:
    Rift vs Vive IQ?

    :)
     
  34. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nope - no power adapter, just the active cable. I had the longer variant of that cable as well, but it wouldn't work, even with the power adapter inline. I've found that what works best is just normal, passive 6' USB 3.0 extensions coming out of ports with dedicated controllers on them... but if you do need to run a ~15+ foot extension, then an active cable is usually needed. Power wasn't the problem I was running into with the longer run, it seemed to be more a signal quality/strength issue.
     
  35. gsilver

    gsilver Limp Gawd

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    From my experience (owning a Vive + demos with the Rift), pretty much everything is better with the Rift, from ergonomics of the headset, to the usability of the Touch controllers, to the focus of the headset (oh my god the clear "sweet spot" on the Vive's lenses is so tiny), to the headphone option (the headphones that I'm using on the Vive *do* far outclass what's built-in to the Rift, but they still complicate setup, which is a bigger deal). And the whole Displayport not working reliably thing on the Vive is annoying as hell. My current case has an HDMI cable routed though the case into an internal HDMI port to get around this issue, and it's incredibly annoying.


    However... Room scale is really what makes the VR experience. It's the difference between "a window to another place" and "being there"

    But... I think that Oculus can solve room scale more easily than HTC can solve everything else.

    Now if only both of them worked on the resolution thing.
     
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  36. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    I finally went to bestbuy and snagged up a oculus rift and touch controllers!! Wife gave in..

    Tried it out late last night and damn the setup process drove me nuts. Just tried for a quick demo at my pc desk with the sensors at the corners of my corner desk.. like a 3x4 foot area in front of my desk..

    Downloaded and installed the software quick and though id be off in a few more mins but no!! The sign up process was bugged.. the registration email did not work where you had to verify the email!! Did not like windows edge browser or internet explorer to verify the address email!! Over snd over said theres a problem and it errored saying if i cut and pasted the adress from the email i must of did so wrong.

    Finally i used my phone to open the email and the android browser was able to verify it! Got that going finally.

    Then to setting it up.. the part where you setup the touch controllers.. it blue screened my year old pc first time ever while finallizing the 2nd controller! Next boot up no issue.. then durring the sensor setup..
    Damn thing kept telling me to rotate my sensors and i could not understand what it wanted me to do.. over and over again.. was very fustraighting cause it seemes so simple yet i could not make it happy.. made me fell stupid when ive been dealing with pc's since like 94! :/

    Finally i said screw it.. turned the sensors so it could atlest track the touch controllers in front and all the way behind me and went for it.

    Wow!! The first tutorials blew my mind!! Fell in love with it right away! The home screen is very cool! Downloaded other freebies and the robo game (have not tried that yet! :) ) everything i trued was awesome even the dang platformer game (cant remember the name now).

    Played for about an hour and called it a night.. i did peak at all the avaliable games and stuff at the store.. wow rockband?? Seriously.. was just talking about that last night with the wife that it would be awesome if they did a game on vr where your standing in front of an audience! Here it is! And i got the xb1 controller! All i need to do is buy it! Must get that..

    Alot of games on there and will take some time to reserch for the gems..

    Steamvr.. will that work with the oculus?? Vive games??

    Another issue is that i also upgraded to a 40" 4k monitor and that takes my only hdmi connection on the card.

    Can i use a hdmi splitter or a hdmi to dvi adapter to have them both hooked up at the same time?? Glad i still have another monitor on the desk so i could use that in the meantime.. but a pain to swap and move the icons around.

    I do have 1080 sli and it would be nice if i could just use the hdmi connection on the 2nd card but of course that wont work! Could prob disable sli to do it maybe but that would also suck.


    Plan to grab another 3rd sensor and use a larger area in the basement.. just gota figure out where to move my desk so the cables will reach and all work.
     
  37. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    SteamVR works with the Rift. Most of the games meant for the Vive can be used with the Rift, although some require some modest hacking. Doom 3, for instance, requires you to put an extra DLL in the game files directory to trick the game into thinking your Rift is a vive.

    I'm pretty sure you can use an adapter for the Rift, but you should definitely be able to use a DP->HDMI adapter for that monitor.

    My room is pretty small, but I haven't really noticed a need for a third sensor.
     
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  38. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    Follow up.. last nights family first vr experiance didnt go great at all as planed.

    Started out with the wife as i wanted it to be a surprise for her and with the monitor showing what was on the screen.. i kept that turned away so the kids could not see it so they could experiance it fresh for themselves on there turn.

    Just wanted to do the first contact tutorial as it explaned the touch controllers.

    Wife basicly is a chicken. Got it on her head and it was alittle fustraighting to make sure the headset was adjusted right and they could see good not knowing what there seeing.

    She basicly freaked out right away on the block walls where it just shows your hands.. yup. Thats as far as she got!!! Wanted her to atleast see an environment to get the whole idea of what vr is like and to understand what im talking about when i talk to her about vr. but nope. Too freaked out!

    Next my 8 year old son played and he liked it.. but had a ruff time using the touch controllers which baffled me cause he games all the time!

    Then my 12 year old played and she was freaked about but seemed to like it.. was able to use the touxh controllers no prob. Said she wanted more.. wanted to be in a world environment. Ok.. not trying much else myself but a platformer from the night prior i tried some kiddy game with a fox character and she said thats not what she wants.. so i said ok.. slap on robo recall knowing that would do the trick and she freaks out! Haha scared her and she was done. :/ basicly all i had downloaded for now.

    Was really hoping the wife would like it and get her blessing to invest more into it to do the room scale and more games.. at first she was like i dont care you can keep it.. then this morning its like its stupid.

    I just need her to let me slap the headset on her durring a normal game with nothing freaky. Just for a min for her to get the idea of how awesome it is.

    Oh and yeah.. robo recall is pretty awesome!!! Played that for over an hour after they left. Crazy good!! My eyes were a little meased up from the first long play sesson though haha.. guess ill get used to it.
     
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  39. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Show her some of the animated music videos that are artsy. They look really cool and won't scare her too much. hehe
    I guess Windlands would really scare them if they hate heights. :)
     
  40. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Fire up The Brookhaven Experiment - perfect title for getting both the wife and kids conditioned to never mess with your VR rig ever again... :D
     
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