Nvidia will add anti-mining flags to the rest of its RTX 3000 GPU series going forward

DooKey said:
Well, what is it? Should the government step in? Inquiring minds want to know.
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No, I don't think so, unless there's collusion between AMD and Nvidia; but they don't even have to collude to have a sort of gentleman's agreement to keep prices high.

There are times when a market isn't free and it's no fault of anyone, and that's where we're at. AMD and Nvidia have a sort of naturally occurring duopoly. Even if Intel comes in and resets pricing, the fact of the matter remains that only a small number of companies have the IP and R&D to make this hardware, and that's not going to change drastically going forward.

Even if two or more new companies decided to take a new swing at the market, only a company like Tesla is realistically capable of being successful at it. And I could see that. Musk is clearly infatuated with crypto, and his products universally require that kind of hardware. But there aren't many of those companies, either.

Sometimes these things happen, and governments taking control of the situation isn't going to help unless they're exceptionally careful, which they almost never are or can be. The alternative would be governments trying to set up their own counterparts to these industries, which, I mean, look at China, even they can't do it.

Now if this tech gets lumped in with ITAR or something, then we'll see a measurable change from outside forces. But who knows what that could mean for the private user.

God, could you imagine what a mess it would be if ATF got involved with GPGPU?
 
Axman said:
No, I don't think so, unless there's collusion between AMD and Nvidia; but they don't even have to collude to have a sort of gentleman's agreement to keep prices high.

There are times when a market isn't free and it's no fault of anyone, and that's where we're at. AMD and Nvidia have a sort of naturally occurring duopoly. Even if Intel comes in and resets pricing, the fact of the matter remains that only a small number of companies have the IP and R&D to make this hardware, and that's not going to change drastically going forward.

Even if two or more new companies decided to take a new swing at the market, only a company like Tesla is realistically capable of being successful at it. And I could see that. Musk is clearly infatuated with crypto, and his products universally require that kind of hardware. But there aren't many of those companies, either.

Sometimes these things happen, and governments taking control of the situation isn't going to help unless they're exceptionally careful, which they almost never are or can be. The alternative would be governments trying to set up their own counterparts to these industries, which, I mean, look at China, even they can't do it.

Now if this tech gets lumped in with ITAR or something, then we'll see a measurable change from outside forces. But who knows what that could mean for the private user.

God, could you imagine what a mess it would be if ATF got involved with GPGPU?
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I could see Huawei launching a competitive product stack here. Their server offerings are price competitive to NVidia’s.
 
blackmomba said:
Basically putting out a Loser Edition. I for one won't buy any cards rated low performance anything.

Ethereum is their focus but with it going PoS what's the point or am I missing something ?
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Ethereum has been promising proof of stake since 2017 if not before. Not sure I believe it’s coming anytime soon. But EIP1559 is right around the corner in July. That’ll have an impact.
 
1_rick said:
Does anyone think Intel is likely to aim for the value market?
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Pretty much all the rumors point to a very mid-range GPU for the consumer market. Maybe on the premium end of mid-range. But as mainstream as possible.

And I can see Intel putting pressure on vendors to keep prices as advertised. They want brand recognition in the discrete GPU market. They have cash in the bank they can live on in the meanwhile.
 
Axman said:
Pretty much all the rumors point to a very mid-range GPU for the consumer market. Maybe on the premium end of mid-range. But as mainstream as possible.
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Ok, let me rephrase that. Does anyone expect Intel to have a product that's significantly cheaper than the closest competition? Pretending for a moment that MSRP still is a thing, I doubt anyone thinks they'll come out with a GPU that's, say, within 10% of the performance of a 1660 Ti, but costs 1/3 less.
 
Axman said:
And I can see Intel putting pressure on vendors to keep prices as advertised. They want brand recognition in the discrete GPU market. They have cash in the bank they can live on in the meanwhile.
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Addressing this separately: I'm sure they'll try but unless they massively outproduce nVIdia and AMD and/or nerf the ability to mine I don't know how they expect that to happen. Even if they strongarm Best Buy, Micro Center, Newegg, Amazon, etc., into only selling for MSRP, all that will happen is the miners will use bots to buy up all the stock and resell on eBay at massively inflated prices, like they're already doing.
 
1_rick said:
Ok, let me rephrase that. Does anyone expect Intel to have a product that's significantly cheaper than the closest competition? Pretending for a moment that MSRP still is a thing, I doubt anyone thinks they'll come out with a GPU that's, say, within 10% of the performance of a 1660 Ti, but costs 1/3 less.
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why do Intels new GPUs need to cost any less than competition? Intel is a well known company, entering a 'new' market segment will not require them to cost less than their competitors. a 1660 class card at 1660 class pricing from Intel will sell. especially now.
 
Zedicus said:
why do Intels new GPUs need to cost any less than competition? Intel is a well known company, entering a 'new' market segment will not require them to cost less than their competitors. a 1660 class card at 1660 class pricing from Intel will sell. especially now.
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That was my point: a third entry in the marketplace isn't going to see prices magically drop, and, especially Intel isn't the one to do it.
 
1_rick said:
Does anyone expect Intel to have a product that's significantly cheaper than the closest competition? Pretending for a moment that MSRP still is a thing, I doubt anyone thinks they'll come out with a GPU that's, say, within 10% of the performance of a 1660 Ti, but costs 1/3 less.
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It doesn't look like that's their target. It's supposed to be in the RX 5700/RTX 3060 space, maybe a little higher.

1_rick said:
all that will happen is the miners will use bots to buy up all the stock and resell on eBay at massively inflated prices, like they're already doing.
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They don't have to do any of that. They already have a channel and that's OEMs. Although even if they don't sell the cards discretely, I would expect to find them from pulled systems just like we see all kinds of AMD stuff.

Also they're planning on launching, what, Q4? Right when mining is expected to drop off.

They better not be idiots like Nvidia and gut the mining performance, though. That's just bad business. Especially when they're trying to have a platform that does both video games and compute. I can't think of a better way to drive that point home with consumers that are also IT workers.

Do you honestly think Nvidia is gimping their GPUs to make them appeal to gamers and not miners? It's just a marketing hack to keep Nvidia fans loyal to them while they continue to use their silicon to make mining-specific cards instead of GPUs for gamers.

Oh, sure, they'll fart out some gaming parts here and there to keep giving people a sliver of hope, but you can be sure they're gonna sell everything they can to miners. Because Nvidia also knows that mining will take a dive at the end of this year, maybe the start of next year. This is too much of a golden opportunity for them.
 
i am still failing to see how anyone is predicted mining to 'drop off' magically , in Q4.

even IF (big if, get it) ETH makes its deadline for POS, there are a lot of things profitable to mine. And with the crypto crash (where prices did not even sink under previous all time highs) saying 'market will be back to normal in Q4' is like saying '8 - 27 - 42 - 54 - 69 are the next lottery numbers'.
 
Zedicus said:
i am still failing to see how anyone is predicted mining to 'drop off' magically , in Q4.
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Well if it doesn't drop off, that just extends the amount of time Nvidia has to sell more mining hardware.
 
Axman said:
Well if it doesn't drop off, that just extends the amount of time Nvidia has to sell more mining hardware.
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Everyone who has any interest at all in mining knows that the CMP cards are nonsense. First, there is no resale value as they have no video. Second, they use older less efficient GPUs (Turing). Third, the cost is too high after you consider #1 and #2.

If Nvidia really cared, maybe they would make a single DP port on the CMP cards so you could at least use one in a pinch for basic tasks and/or gaming on a single monitor. And a gamer would have another option and it would be useful other than as a paperweight when more and more coins move to POS from POW.
 
kirbyrj said:
Everyone who has any interest at all in mining knows that the CMP cards are nonsense. First, there is no resale value as they have no video. Second, they use older less efficient GPUs (Turing). Third, the cost is too high after you consider #1 and #2.
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I think CMP is part of the marketing ploy, too. They're going to sell miners whatever hardware they ask for.
 
So what exactly are they crippling to make reduced hash rates? I have to assume the reason why they are used for mining is due to the way the hardware works, so by "reducing the hash rate" I have to assume that they in some way make the hardware not quite work the same way.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So what exactly are they crippling to make reduced hash rates?
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The driver scans for Eth mining and tells the card to run at half speed. It's software, not hardware, and they previously released a driver without the limiter.
 
Axman said:
The driver scans for Eth mining and tells the card to run at half speed. It's software, not hardware, and they previously released a driver without the limiter.
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They're doing hardware changes for the new ones.
 
There’s no way they redesigned the glass in a way that could do that so quickly. Whatever it is it’s running on software.
 
CAD4466HK said:
According to GN, LHR derivatives of the dies for the 3080 down, are hitting the streets in late May. Silicon level enforcement.
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Not even the first guy to say that but I still don't believe it. There might be some "silicon" involved in that there's a chip someplace onboard that works with a driver to control the clocks, bandwidth, or whatever of the GPU, but Nvidia didn't spend money to change their actual dies to do this.

I guarantee you it's software-controlled, particularly because people are also saying that the scheme can be altered down the line to select future mining methods and different crypto standards. That means that the software can also be disabled and allow all of it to run.
 
How can they charge the same MSRP for a product with less functionality?

He never mentioned the 3080 Ti, will that have a LHR version or not?
 
rinaldo00 said:
How can they charge the same MSRP for a product with less functionality?

He never mentioned the 3080 Ti, will that have a LHR version or not?
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That’s been a stated thing for quite some time that 3080TI will have the hash cripple characteristic just like 3060. I think it’s a forgone conclusion.
 
rinaldo00 said:
How can they charge the same MSRP for a product with less functionality?

He never mentioned the 3080 Ti, will that have a LHR version or not?
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Again, not many people care about mining performance. They just want a gpu and will gladly pay the same price if they can get one of these.
 
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Archaea said:
That’s been a stated thing for quite some time that 3080TI will have the hash cripple characteristic just like 3060. I think it’s a forgone conclusion.
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This is interesting, but I assume that this will not apply to the new FE cards.
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/nvidia-lhr-cards-no-founders-edition/

There will be no anti-mining LHR versions of existing Nvidia Founders Edition graphics cards​

By Dave James 3 days ago​

Only shipping third-party LHR cards signals the end of life for RTX 3080, RTX 3070, and RTX 3060 Ti Founders Edition GPUs.

The new Lite Hash Rate Nvidia graphics cards will only appear in third party versions of its GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070, and RTX 3060 Ti GPUs as Nvidia has no plans to make Founders Edition versions with the Ethereum hash rate limiter in place.
 
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Axman said:
Not even the first guy to say that but I still don't believe it. There might be some "silicon" involved in that there's a chip someplace onboard that works with a driver to control the clocks, bandwidth, or whatever of the GPU, but Nvidia didn't spend money to change their actual dies to do this.

I guarantee you it's software-controlled, particularly because people are also saying that the scheme can be altered down the line to select future mining methods and different crypto standards. That means that the software can also be disabled and allow all of it to run.
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You're probably right, most "hardware" is controlled by software ;).

What concerns me is, Nvidia trying to change the GPU landscape with LHR and CMP cards. Like Steve said, the LHR cards are being produced along side the non-LHR cards, so in the first couple of months, you will have both variants being sold side by side.

This makes the non-LHR cards the one to buy, cuz who wants gimped hardware?

After the non-LHR inventory dries up, Nvidia will produce only LHR SKU's, driving the non-LHR GPU's to become unicorns floating on painted farts.
Prices on non-LHR cards will skyrocket.
 
rinaldo00 said:
These cards will be "gimped" and have a lower resale value. You may be desperate enough to accept this, but it is still flawed.
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You probably have a gimped toilet. A gimped shower head. A gimped light bulb. And definitely a gimped car with a gimped set of tires. Yet all those things hopefully work fine for their intended purpose. Gaming GPUs show frames per second during their product reveals. Professional and compute GPUs show performance stats based on their typical workloads as well during their product reveals. Aligning a product’s capabilities to its intended end usage is not gimping, it’s called market segmentation.
 
NightReaver said:
Never said nobody agreed. Only mentioned most won't see it that way. It'll render graphics just as well as a non-gimped card.
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True, and it will set a bad precedent. It will tell Nvidia that people will buy cards with missing features for the same price. You might care when the missing feature is something you will miss.
 
Randall Stephens said:
You probably have a gimped toilet. A gimped shower head. A gimped light bulb. And definitely a gimped car with a gimped set of tires. Yet all those things hopefully work fine for their intended purpose. Gaming GPUs show frames per second during their product reveals. Professional and compute GPUs show performance stats based on their typical workloads as well during their product reveals. Aligning a product’s capabilities to its intended end usage is not gimping, it’s called market segmentation.
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Sure, but all those products cost LESS than the non gimped product. A car with a plastic spare costs less than a car with a full spare, and it should. Gaming GPUs with gimped DP cost less than Quadros, etc.
 
rinaldo00 said:
Sure, but all those products cost LESS than the non gimped product. A car with a plastic spare costs less than a car with a full spare, and it should. Gaming GPUs with gimped DP cost less than Quadros, etc.
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Gaming GPUs do cost less than Quadros, or Tesla’s or GRIDs.
 
This is a slippery slope... Graphics card are more than just "gaming card" because nvidia (and the industry) design it that way (GPGPU, anyone?).

Now the question is, will LHR cards also have reduced performance when doing tasks similar to mining? Folding@Home, password cracking, encoding, data simulation etc...?
 
Unless it's a physical modification like Geforce vs Quadro/Tesla cards back when a resistor denoted what the card could do it won't matter.
 
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