nVidia: "We expected more from the Radeon 7900 series"

Digital Viper-X- said:
IF Asus will drop a DCUII of the 7970 before NV releases keplar, I will sell one 7970 and get that , the 4 DP outs make it worth it.
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It does, but I'm still focused on being one and done. If a buy two 7970s and the 680s are faster I'm right back to switching cards again.
I rather get the 7990 if I go AMD, since it can be easily CF with another 7970 in the distant future. This is being paired with a U3011, not my current monitor.
AMD does dual GPUs better than Nvidia judging from the last two generations.

The 7990 shouldn't be that far off, March/April could be very competitive months for both camps.
 
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Nvidia has a history of smack talking, they did this when AMD users were enjoying the 6970 and Nvidia's 580s were no where to be found and late to the market.

History is repeating itself again.

Nvidia can smack talk all they want but it's not 2 Kepler card sitting in my box is it? Can nvidia make it happen? Nope it's 2 AMD 7970s.
 
Igg said:
Nvidia has a history of smack talking, they did this when AMD users were enjoying the 6970 and Nvidia's 580s were no where to be found and late to the market.

History is repeating itself again.

Nvidia can smack talk all they want but it's not 2 Kepler card sitting in my box is it? Can nvidia make it happen? Nope it's 2 AMD 7970s.
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what are you talking about? the gtx580 came out BEFORE the 6970.
 
SonDa5 said:
Didn't we all expect more?

NVIDIA better have a big GK1XX bat ready to back up the talk. I really don't think NVIDIA would be talking like this unless they are certain they are able to offer a much better video card for the money.
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Agreed. It makes no sense for them to say something like this unless they have something better in the works. Exciting. :D
 
MavericK96 said:
Agreed. It makes no sense for them to say something like this unless they have something better in the works. Exciting. :D
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Agreed, it will be faster, hotter, more power hungry and more expensive. ;)

PS: And if it's faster you can guarantee the more expensive part!
 
To be fair to Fermi, SLI Surround with a pair of GTX 470's gave me a better experience than Xfire Eyefinity 5870's. It was a louder and hotter, but the gaming experience was smoother for sure.
 
cannondale06 said:
if ALL reviews reflected that then you would have a point. the fact remains that no other site came close to having that big of difference when testing a wide selection of games. in fact the 7970 was slower than the stock gtx580 in a couple of cases on xbits review.

and it looks like the 7950 will be very pricey too so I do not see that as being a value card by an means. the only reason I got the gtx570 was because it was just 260 bucks plus it came with Batman AC.
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Yeah I remember checking the Anand review a while back... ah, here it is...

me said:
40%? Well, I just went through and summarised the performance gains according to the AnandTech review, taking the highest played settings in each case.

26.5%
30.9%
19.2%
29.3%
18.2%
18.1%
12.9%
18.9%
12.5%

Average
20.7% faster

And for the 2 games they tested minimum framerate

17.5%
11.6%
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But either way I don't really give a shit. The 7970 is currently overpriced the way I see it, as is the GTX580. I'll wait to see what nVidia have in their bag for us down the track. Sure, the benefits go to the company who releases first, but staggered release dates have been the norm, since, like, forever. Its nothing new. The eager people jump on the first new gen card that releases, but a large portion of people wait it out to see the competition and wait for the prices to settle first.
 
Sounds like you'll be waiting forever if that is the case....there is always something better coming, just depends on how long you want to wait vs. if you want to enjoy games now.
 
fps4ever said:
Sounds like you'll be waiting forever if that is the case....there is always something better coming, just depends on how long you want to wait vs. if you want to enjoy games now.
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For $550 a lot of people can wait. Their 580s and 6970s are doing just fine, enjoying games just like the 7970 owner.

No pressure folks.
 
Well, waiting when two new generations are launching within months of each other is a fairly good idea, unless there's an urgent need to upgrade. A new generation launch doesn't happen that often and a few months is a short period relatively.
 
fps4ever said:
Sounds like you'll be waiting forever if that is the case....there is always something better coming, just depends on how long you want to wait vs. if you want to enjoy games now.
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oh how true that is...

if i had a bad itch to play a new game at the moment i'd without question have a 7970. but not giving a crap about BF3 allows me to wait to see what nVidia responds with :)
 
fps4ever said:
Sounds like you'll be waiting forever if that is the case....there is always something better coming, just depends on how long you want to wait vs. if you want to enjoy games now.
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Yeah... that's why people bought GTX580s before the 7970 came out, , that's why people are now buying the 7970 before Kepler comes, that's why people will buy GTX680/780s before the 8790 comes out. Releases are staggered, always have been. I'm quite happy enjoying my current system and waiting to see what happens next.
 
In the end what do we have here? Someone from Nvidia was talking to someone having a hardware news/review website. It's not an official press release and i doubt that the CEO would go out and talk like that. You cannot control everyone in your company and no one really knows that Nvidia said to that journalist/those journalists.

For me personally it's fine. Everything is allowed to keep people away from buying products from competitors or slow down sales of competitors. This is how business works. It's all about money. I would do the same thing if i would have to run a huge company like Nvidia, Intel or AMD.

If a lot of people are willing to wait - and i think the majority of customers will in order to compare both offerings - then the objective has been accomplished :)
 
i got used to waiting for nvidia products to come out.

it doesnt bother me because nothing has to come out at the same time anyway.

they are two different companies, that's how i see it.
 
fps4ever said:
Agreed, it will be faster, hotter, more power hungry and more expensive. ;)

PS: And if it's faster you can guarantee the more expensive part!
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Haha...probably true, but oh well. I have nothing invested in either company right now since I just upgraded to GTX 570 SLI, so I should be good for another couple of years. Overall I've had better luck with nVidia drivers and support than AMD, but that's just my personal experience.

Digital Viper-X- said:
Didn't they hype up Fermi as well? how about Bulldozer? :p
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They always "hype up" the new stuff, but they don't always say stuff like this. It could be lies, but pretty embarrassing for nVidia if it is. Though I don't see what nVidia has to gain here by lying. Given that these cards are for enthusiasts who tend to know something about computers, at most they will prevent people from buying AMD for what, another few months until Kepler is out? If at that point the card is shitty, it's not as if many enthusiasts are just going to buy the nVidia card anyway...they will just go AMD and be left with a bad taste in their mouth by nVidia. They can't expect people to avoid the 7970 and just buy a GTX 580 anyway, as the 7970 is clearly the faster card at the moment...makes no sense. So yeah, they want people to wait for Kepler...but the wait might be worth it.

My guess is it'll be like fps4ever said; probably quite a bit faster, but hotter and more TDW as well. That tends to be nVidia's track record. Then they'll release a better revision later on.
 
Nvidia is talking shit; this better mean that Kepler will destroy AMD's offerings.
 
MavericK96 said:
Like I said in the other forum, I'll believe that when I see the proof. So far all we have is the word of some guy on a forum, nothing else as far as I can see.
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That's about as much proof as there was for their midrange part outperforming the 7970. The point is it's all rumors. By now you'd figure people would reserve their judgment until reputable sites get their numbers in. In its current state, the G104 doesn't exist so any performance estimates are pure speculation, just as the 7970 before that card was released.

The only question we should really be asking is "When's it coming out?"
 
Once again, Nvidia planted their "marketing" implosion device and failed. What would we do without the XFX Rangers?
 
pelo said:
That's about as much proof as there was for their midrange part outperforming the 7970. The point is it's all rumors. By now you'd figure people would reserve their judgment until reputable sites get their numbers in. In its current state, the G104 doesn't exist so any performance estimates are pure speculation, just as the 7970 before that card was released.

The only question we should really be asking is "When's it coming out?"
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I agree. It's all rumor, but people are acting like this shill thing was "proven". It wasn't.
 
MavericK96 said:
I agree. It's all rumor, but people are acting like this shill thing was "proven". It wasn't.
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...umm and neither was the GFK104 none sense?? So two rumors. One taken as omg it is true and the other as rumor??? Seriously??
 
figgie said:
...umm and neither was the GFK104 none sense?? So two rumors. One taken as omg it is true and the other as rumor??? Seriously??
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What are you talking about? I just said "it's all rumor". I never said the GK104 stuff was true.

In fact, my point is exactly the opposite. Suddenly this "new information" comes out about nVidia using marketing shills with essentially zero evidence other than a random guy's word on a Chinese forum about it, and suddenly everyone is acting like it's the absolute truth. None of it is true unless proven so...right now, it's all rumors.
 
MavericK96 said:
What are you talking about? I just said "it's all rumor". I never said the GK104 stuff was true.

In fact, my point is exactly the opposite. Suddenly this "new information" comes out about nVidia using marketing shills with essentially zero evidence other than a random guy's word on a Chinese forum about it, and suddenly everyone is acting like it's the absolute truth. None of it is true unless proven so...right now, it's all rumors.
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Just a second, the original information also came from random guys on that very Chinese forum. So if it was "the truth" the first time around, there are big chances that it is the same right now. (IE either you believe all rumors from random dudes on said forums or you dont, only thing that i still find a wee bit beyond sketchy if what i perceive as a different stance on Charlie from the forums vs the articles).
 
If Nvidia wants to make some bucks then they should just shut it and drop the price on the 580 to well below $450.00. I still see 580 selling for well above $500.00 in Canada. Some as high as $580.00. Are they crazy?
 
Fermi was a lot like the bulldozer release. Although, at least Fermi still ended up being the faster card. It just used a ton of power to keep that edge over AMD.

When I say Fermi was like bulldozer I refer to the fact that both are a ton faster in certain usage scenario's, but for the large majority of users they aren't. Fermi offered a major performance improvement in the CUDA department. It offered eight times the speed of the prior generation, and gave support for C++ among other things. However, when it came to doing the task of what us gamers need it for - It wasn't as big of an improvement as one would have hoped. I see a similar situation with bulldozer. In certain enviroments bulldozer makes marked improvements. However, most desktop users aren't running highly threaded applications. Just like most desktop users aren't using their GPU for stuff other then graphics.
 
Revdarian said:
Just a second, the original information also came from random guys on that very Chinese forum. So if it was "the truth" the first time around, there are big chances that it is the same right now. (IE either you believe all rumors from random dudes on said forums or you dont, only thing that i still find a wee bit beyond sketchy if what i perceive as a different stance on Charlie from the forums vs the articles).
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Didn't I just say at least 3 times that IT'S ALL RUMORS?

Jeez, reading comprehension has taken a huge dive around here...
 
MavericK96 said:
Didn't I just say at least 3 times that IT'S ALL RUMORS?

Jeez, reading comprehension has taken a huge dive around here...
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Yeah, but the ones they want to believe are the true ones, and the other ones are just crap. That's how you reconcile it.
 
Forceman said:
Yeah, but the ones they want to believe are the true ones, and the other ones are just crap. That's how you reconcile it.
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Who the fuck is "they"? I personally never said ANY of the rumors were truth. All I said regarding nVidia's statement is that it doesn't behoove them to lie about this, because all it will do is cost them more sales in the long run.
 
MavericK96 said:
Who the fuck is "they"? I personally never said ANY of the rumors were truth. All I said regarding nVidia's statement is that it doesn't behoove them to lie about this, because all it will do is cost them more sales in the long run.
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Man, relax. It is the mythical "they", not you specifically. Like, "I don't know, but I was talking to some people and they said it is going to kick ass".
 
Thread bookmarked for quote pulling if Nvidia can back up their smack talk :p. Some sig worthy stuff in this thread.
 
all these rumors could could also be from amd fanatics, creating all this hype and when Kepler lands and it doesnt deliver what hype said it all of the sudden sucks.

you got to look it from both ways i think.
 
I think the days of seeing +70-100% performance gains out of an architecture are a bit behind us considering the industry is bouncing their heads against a TDP wall. Given the awesome performance improvement of the AMD Cypress architecture, the Radeon 5850/5870 still used more power (within reason) even if it was one of the most efficient architectures ever created.

I think people forget that the Radeon 7970 was meant to replace the Radeon 6970, not the Geforce 580, and it does perform considerably better than the 6970 it replaces. The Radeon 6970 never even competed with the Geforce 580 in both price and performance, and we all know that the only reason they're pricing it the way they are is because, well, they can.

Drop the Radeon 7970 to a $389 pricetag though and it suddenly becomes an entirely different ballgame. Given AMD's small die and high yield approach to their architecture, I think this is exactly the type of competition we're going to see.

Everyone screams and yells at the price when a new card comes out. I've been watching this industry for 10+, and it's the same thing ever time when one guy gets to the top all by himself :)
 
Ranari said:
I think the days of seeing +70-100% performance gains out of an architecture are a bit behind us considering the industry is bouncing their heads against a TDP wall. Given the awesome performance improvement of the AMD Cypress architecture, the Radeon 5850/5870 still used more power (within reason) even if it was one of the most efficient architectures ever created.

I think people forget that the Radeon 7970 was meant to replace the Radeon 6970, not the Geforce 580, and it does perform considerably better than the 6970 it replaces. The Radeon 6970 never even competed with the Geforce 580 in both price and performance, and we all know that the only reason they're pricing it the way they are is because, well, they can.

Drop the Radeon 7970 to a $389 pricetag though and it suddenly becomes an entirely different ballgame. Given AMD's small die and high yield approach to their architecture, I think this is exactly the type of competition we're going to see.

Everyone screams and yells at the price when a new card comes out. I've been watching this industry for 10+, and it's the same thing ever time when one guy gets to the top all by himself :)
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I will cry if they drop the price to $389 in the next 6 months, but i wouldnt be surprized. No matter the quality of the product AMD always has to undercut its competition :-/.

I am not blown away with the performance of my 7970 so much as the power consumption. I am running it at stock clock speeds, but undervolted it from 1.175 to .95V, its been completely stable, runs cool, fan barely audible and my kill a watt is showing its only pulling same or slightly less watts then the 5830 it replaced. (135w) overclock in my sig was just for the one benchmark...
 
7970 is so amazing. I am glad I didn't wait for kepler. When its oced it kills my 580s in every single game. I highly doubt i will buy Nvidia this time around. There just dosen't seem to be any point. This 7970 kills and there are no more demanding games coming out for years (probably due to the new consoles) So I am happy with AMD. Nvidia should be quicker than AMD they lose alot of buisness this way

PLUS IT CAN PLAY 3 SCREENS ON 1 GPU!!!!!
 
onthemour said:
7970 is so amazing. I am glad I didn't wait for kepler. When its oced it kills my 580s in every single game. I highly doubt i will buy Nvidia this time around. There just dosen't seem to be any point. This 7970 kills and there are no more demanding games coming out for years (probably due to the new consoles) So I am happy with AMD. Nvidia should be quicker than AMD they lose alot of buisness this way

PLUS IT CAN PLAY 3 SCREENS ON 1 GPU!!!!!
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You don't even know what Kepler can or can't do, and neither does anyone else.

Take your AMD fanboyism elsewhere.
 
MavericK96 said:
You don't even know what Kepler can or can't do, and neither does anyone else.

Take your AMD fanboyism elsewhere.
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Well part of his point is that he can do that right NOW. Not in somewhat vague amount of time down the road. Maybe Kepler will be absolutely killer, but if someone's looking at a high end GPU this week/month, the 7970 can't be beat. And I'm hoping that nvidia does have a great product. More competition is better for us!
 
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