I think Palit owns both Galaxy and Gainward now and puled out of the USA market intending both of the former to replace it as gpu board sellers.
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Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market
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I think Palit owns both Galaxy and Gainward now and puled out of the USA market intending both of the former to replace it as gpu board sellers.
Newegg still has a few evgas. The 380 better be one hell of a card they really can't afford for it not to be at this rate.
yep it's do or die.
If I had a dollar for every time someone at a forum predicted the death of AMD or NVDIA...
yep it's do or die.
It's not do or die. Nvidia isn't going to die. They could operate at a loss for at least 4 years with ease. They have shit tons of cash and not debt. AMD is the one with shit tons of debt and no cash.
Nvidia is going to loose a lot of market share if they bring an uncompeteitive product to market is all.
Incorrect. Nvidia most likely would not be able to survive if they continued to operate at a loss for the next 4 years. Nvidia does have cash and little debt. AMD on the other hand has a sizable amount of debt, but they do have quite a bit of cash...
In any case, both companies should be alright, though I'm a little bit more concerned with Nvidia because they lost quite a bit of market share this past quarter and most likely will continue until next year, as seen here: http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009...-third-quarter-as-graphics-chip-sales-boomed/
AMD has 2.5B in cash and 2B in current liabilites and another 5.7B in long term debt.
Nvidia has 1.5B in cash and 900M in liabilites with 0 long term debt. Assuming Nvidia can borrow proportional to it's market cap what AMD can, then they could run up 11.3B in debt and be in the same state as AMD. Seeing how they lost only 105M last quarter, that equates to 420M a year or 27 years at that loss rate. Assuming tommorow nobody buys anything from them and they just pay their operating expenses, which is a an absolute worse case, they would loose 267 million a quarter. But lets go ahead and say they continue to sell their products at a loss and their cost of revenue is 100M higher than their revenue for a total loss of 367M a quarter. They could continue to operate at that levl of a loss for 7 1/2 years. They would then be in the same state as AMD is today. It's amazing what happens when you know what financial numbers mean instead of quoting a blog.
In 2006, AMD bought ATI. That year AMD lost 166M. At the start of that year, they had 1.8B in cash and ended that year with 1.5B in cash. Thing weren't that different. The previous year ('05) they made 165M. By the end of '05 they already had 1.3B in debt. Nvidia is in much better shape now than AMD was then.
For reference of scale, in '07 they lost 2.3B and in '08 they lost 3.1B including charges.
Quoting a blog? Did you even read my post? Re-read it, and look at the link again...
Why would Nvidia run up their debt to 11.3B? That would spell doom for the company. AMD has sizable debt, but their situation is different than Nvidia's. Just because company A can take on a specific amount of debt, doesn't mean company B in a similar market can do the same...
And no their debt is not 5.7B. It's more in the range of mid to high 3B (forgot the exact number). Didn't you hear about the spin-off and creation of Global Foundries? Global Foundries will take on quite a bit of AMD's debt...
And yes reading financial numbers in context is important, instead of say, blindly reading off numbers in Google finance...
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WorldExclusive
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That's Newegg, big etailer. The EVGA site is completely out of stock; the actual manufacture. 260, 275, 285s are gone.
That's why they are using old boards and combining the two so they can make that new dual Physx card. They're trying to drum up excitement that is not there.
Try reading my post, I simply said newegg had some in stock if you wanted some. Oh, and I hope you aren't trying to say EVGA manufactors the silicion. Or for that matter, most of it's kits.Wait, so there is no excitement but they are sold out. But now they have chips that are "useless" (so useless that they've sold out of them) so they are putting two of them on a board to drum up excitement for sold out boards?
Yes, yes, and yes. But your worst case scenario is WELL BEYOND a worst case scenario, to the point where it becomes laughable (If they accrue a 11.3B debt (LOL) they're liabilities would sky rocket to around 12.05B, and assuming their total assets stay the same at 3.298B, their total equity would be a whopping -8.752B (holy crap!)).
LOL. Uh, what? That number is not 31 days old. They filed an 8-K, on Oct. 15th, you know on the date of their earnings release (and when did they file an 8-K 31 days ago that had anything to do with their financial statements?). Here is the recent 8-K filing with their financial numbers: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-sec
(Click on the Oct. 15th one)
And as you can see, their long-term debt is at 3.541B that excludes Global Foundries (Go down towards the bottom, in the section AMD Product Company (excludes Foundry segment and intersegment eliminations))
AMD's sitting at -600M liabilites so why not? lol
/sigh. You base the date on the age of the data in the report, not of the date of the report it's self.
Page 20, "Long-term debt and capital lease obligations, less current portion" 5,275. Sept 26, 2009. If you read on page 5, you'll understand that what you are refering to on page 22 is a non GAAP accounting measure.
WorldExclusive
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Wait, so there is no excitement but they are sold out. But now they have chips that are "useless" (so useless that they've sold out of them) so they are putting two of them on a board to drum up excitement for sold out boards?
The boards are not sold out, less of them are being produced or killed off entirely.
Combining two different GPUs on one PCB for Physx is trying to drum up excitement.
My original post referred to EVGA, not other distributors, manufactures or silicon makers.
Right. But taking account of assets and liabilities, the difference isn't much for AMD and is manageable. For your worst case scenario for Nvidia, that difference is almost times 4. Way beyond manageability...
That's a moot point really, because that information came out to the public on Oct. 15th. Unless you work for AMD or have anything to do with their finances, you wouldn't know that information on Sept. 26th. And that is their latest report, and I don't think they're numbers drastically changed in 31 days (especially their debt numbers)...
It's a non-GAAP because Global Foundries numbers are still on AMD's books...really doesn't matter because the fact is, they will take on some of that debt (since it was part of the deal) and will separate from AMD sooner or later. And that was my whole point, if you exclude Global Foundries their debt is not 5.7B...
Nvidia is losing market share and with a big gaping hole to counter competitor's cards in the Xmas season, looks like the trend will continue at least to Q1 next year. http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17834
No worries though, they have such a ginormous cushion of 11 billion and probably double that JHH can just take a long vacation and not have to step into the office for another 10 years.
No worries though, they have such a ginormous cushion of 11 billion and probably double that JHH can just take a long vacation and not have to step into the office for another 10 years.
And the number came out to 27 years, take a factor of 10 off it and they still have 3 years to survive at the current levels. It was back of the envelope calc to show how nvidia isn't dying tommorrow. They have to screw up another 2 product release cycles (18month cycles) to be in real trouble.
No its not. If it comes out a year from now the data will be 1 year and 31 days old not 1 day old because it was just released. This is a snap shot of the company 31 days ago, not when it was released.
And there assets will also decrease by 4.3B including a cash reduction of 1B. All to write off 2B of debt. The GAAP debt to asset ratio is 66%, the non-GAAP numbers you want to use will move their debt to asset ratio to 81%! That is suppose to make me think it is a stronger company? They reducing their net worth by 2.3B!
DarkLegacy
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I thing things need to be simplified a little bit here.
1)The GT300 line releases at a most likely higher than needed price. It will most likely out perform anything AMD has out at the moment.
2)AMD places a price drop on there top end cards.
3)AMD releases the HD5890 card which should bring it close, if not, equal to Nvidia's top performing single GPU card. Other mid range cards hit the market. HD5750's, HD5650's, w/e they name em.
3)Nvidia releases there refresh that will most likely put them back on top again but as usual, will cost more than AMD's offerings.
4)AMD prepares to launch there next gen part that will make the forum kiddies go crazy predicting the death of Nvidia & the round of threads like this start all over. =)
1)The GT300 line releases at a most likely higher than needed price. It will most likely out perform anything AMD has out at the moment.
2)AMD places a price drop on there top end cards.
3)AMD releases the HD5890 card which should bring it close, if not, equal to Nvidia's top performing single GPU card. Other mid range cards hit the market. HD5750's, HD5650's, w/e they name em.
3)Nvidia releases there refresh that will most likely put them back on top again but as usual, will cost more than AMD's offerings.
4)AMD prepares to launch there next gen part that will make the forum kiddies go crazy predicting the death of Nvidia & the round of threads like this start all over. =)
jeremyshaw
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You forgot part 6) Intel releases Larrabee, which is heavily unlikely, but still will start flame wars.
hmmm well that circle actually can put nvidia in trouble according to latest reports they lost serious ms so if the thing that u say will contnue then nvidia is really in serious trouble lol i think thats why they came with that multi purpose thing
btw saying that gt 300 will outperform hemlock is pure imagination its like saying gtx 285 will be faster than 4870x2
Larrabee at best will be the close equal to GTX 285/280 so that is very unlikely.
AmongTheChosenX
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with a massive power envelope as well. first round of larabee will be a fail.
second round of larrabee is what we need to look out for
jeremyshaw
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lol. I posted that as a joke.
I am not sure at all about that. its going to be a monster of a card no doubt but its not really a true graphics card anymore. about the only thing I am sure of it kicking ATI ass in is GPGPU computing. And maybe we will see some awesome software rendering capabilities. (this does look interesting to say the least) But will it be a good gaming / workstation card?
jeremyshaw
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great for folding?
Snap forgot that too. Just to add nothing will beat it for Vantage scores and ATI will have no answer! I can't wait saving up right now. Just thinking about being immersed in Batman physx ruffling papers and moving curtains staring at it for hours just makes me [H]ard. Only 3-4 more months
I'm not really following your math (nor do I care at this point), but I do agree that Nvidia won't "die" anytime soon...
Of course it is. We aren't talking about a year here, we are talking about a MONTH (with the information being available to the public for no more than 2 WEEKS). Now if it had been a year or if it wasn't their latest report, I too would have reservations about it. But obviously this isn't the case. I'm not sure what you are implying, but are you saying that the data is deemed too old so its invalid? What then is your definition of "current" data?
Whether you believe the spin-off and creation of Global Foundries strengthens AMD is your opinion. You do realize that if it wasn't for the foundry, AMD would have made a profit in Q3...
Oh wait I'm sorry, the Q3 report is too old...
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I'm not really following your math (nor do I care at this point), but I do agree that Nvidia won't "die" anytime soon...
/sigh. It is the current data. You attempted to say your data was "newer" when it was from the same report by quoting the report date instead of the data date. You are so busy trying to argue and show your infaliability you don't even remember what you are arguing about. It's kind of sad really.
/sigh last time I checked we were talking about debt load and how much debt nvidia could take on by comparining it to ATI. Now we aren't even talking about AMDs debtload anymore but about if AMD is profitable without the foundary spin-off? What does this have to do with in any remote way to Nvidia living? Are you ADHD or something? Seriously I've been trying to follow you as you bounce around but it's really hard. Can you pick an argument, make a case and then follow through with that argument?
See above.Oh wait I'm sorry, the Q3 report is too old...
LOL. When did I ever state that my data was "newer" or even implied that? Re-Read our conversation...
It was you who first brought up date of the data, not me...
You are so busy trying to argue and show your infaliability you don't even remember what you are arguing about. It's kind of sad really.
Oh, the irony...
Well actually I was going to point the same out to you but...LOL
Right, so what was your point of bringing up the date of the report in the first place (which was what I was trying to figure out) which is the reason for this confusion?
Right, I reported the non-GAAP number and how does that have anything to do with the date?
Look...the only points that I was trying to make was that AMD does have cash (which they do at 2.5B) and that AMD's debt at 5.7B is misleading because of the spinning off of their foundry and the creation of Global Foundries. YOU were the one who brought up the ridiculous scenario of Nvidia's debt. YOU were the one who brought up the date. YOU were the one who brought up how breaking off of Global Foundries makes AMD stronger or not...
And I responded to each of those topics accordingly...