Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market

sethk said:
I personally find this entire topic hilarious - I wasn't posting the above links as a serious knock against anyone - I just wanted to show how the right headline can catch peoples attention, with little things like facts, substantiation and even handed analysis being minor impediments in the spread of a great rumor that can spawn giant threads like this one.
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Ya brah it gets even funnier http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3659&p=1

NVIDIA told me two things. One, that they have shared with some OEMs that they will no longer be making GT200b based products. That’s the GTX 260 all the way up to the GTX 285. The EOL (end of life) notices went out recently and they request that the OEMs submit their allocation requests asap otherwise they risk not getting any cards.
 
My Take:

These cards are EOL, but with the lower demand, higher production costs, lower performance, and higher power consumption of Nvidia's GT200 video cards compared to ATI recently launched video card lineup, Nvidia expects their current supply to last until the launch of their new Fermi video card.

Thus, Charlie article is somewhat true, but his doom scenario is out of line. It's great for a headline though, as this 27 page thread demonstrates.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
have you seen the specs? it's not going to be anywhere near 1.5X let alone 2x the performance of the 5870.........
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With an entire new architecture - how can you predict the performance like that just from looking at the specs. The 5870 is no such thing, it is a higher clocked R700 with architectural tweaks.

So I don't think it's a stretch in saying that Fermi could end up being 1.5X faster than 5870. I don't know about 2X but we'll see.
 
x3sphere said:
With an entire new architecture - how can you predict the performance like that just from looking at the specs. The 5870 is no such thing, it is a higher clocked R700 with architectural tweaks.

So I don't think it's a stretch in saying that Fermi could end up being 1.5X faster than 5870. I don't know about 2X but we'll see.
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Well to be fair, you're predicting performance as well, so one can ask you the same question. Only difference is you're predicting higher than he is.
 
x3sphere said:
With an entire new architecture - how can you predict the performance like that just from looking at the specs. The 5870 is no such thing, it is a higher clocked R700 with architectural tweaks.

So I don't think it's a stretch in saying that Fermi could end up being 1.5X faster than 5870. I don't know about 2X but we'll see.
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For it to be 1.5-2x faster than a 5870 ...That's a far fetched expectation there for only 1 generation from a GTX285. Only in JHH and nvidia fans' wildest dreams.
As of right now its 50/50 can go either way for 20% faster than a 5870. Specs look good does not mean it will = good gaming performance. All this hype so far from them on precision this and cuda that and nothing about gaming perf. They should have shown more by now to stave off the big huge holiday season buyers from going AMD. To be fair lets see by the end of November what marketing says.
 
x3sphere said:
With an entire new architecture - how can you predict the performance like that just from looking at the specs. The 5870 is no such thing, it is a higher clocked R700 with architectural tweaks.

So I don't think it's a stretch in saying that Fermi could end up being 1.5X faster than 5870. I don't know about 2X but we'll see.
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I think a lot of people are worried that the new fermi architecture is not geared towards graphics as much as HPC. I am more less wondering if they are going to match the performance for a 5870 in games. Now in everything else its probably going going to be awesome, I am just worried that they forgot the gamers. I really do hope it turns out something awesome though, another price war would not hurt my feelings at all :D
 
The new NVIDIA GPU will not be 1.5X faster I'm pretty sure, more like 50% at most, tho I predict something in the lines of 20-25%faster.
 
I may just be going crazy, but isn't 1.5x faster and 50% faster exactly the same thing?
 
x3sphere said:
With an entire new architecture - how can you predict the performance like that just from looking at the specs. The 5870 is no such thing, it is a higher clocked R700 with architectural tweaks.

So I don't think it's a stretch in saying that Fermi could end up being 1.5X faster than 5870. I don't know about 2X but we'll see.
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white paper is available and from what can be gleamed of it, I would say that 50% is wild specualtion at best.......there are a lot of uknowns and like others have mentioned, performance in games does not appear to be the first priority......
 
I don't think 50% faster (1.5X) is out of line from the leaked specs. But it is a sensible starting point.

Fermi will have 50% wider memory bus (384 vs 256), and 50% (3Billion + vs 2Billion) additional transistors. So it isn't out of line to think of 50% better performance.

Naturally it won't be exactly 50% (it might be 40%, it might be 55%), and it will depend on which application, some will favor NV, some will favor ATI.

Just because there was a lot of talk about computing usage, don't forget that NVidia is still first and foremost a graphics company. All of those 3 Billion transistor are going to be working on crunching pixels.

ATI wasn't even aiming for the top beastly graphics GPU, they just won by accident, by pursuing their sweet spot strategy.

So NVidia taking back the top end is a no brainer, ATI is ready to let them have the $500 graphics card market, they are going after everything below that where all the money is.

While I am interested in seeing what Fermi does, I would never buy one. There is less reason today for a $400+ graphics cards than anytime in the past.

So NVidia winning top GPU battle is a no brainer, 50% performance advantage is not out of line with reasonable expecations.

But this is no longer what it takes to win the GPU war. NVidia is going to bleed red ink until the have competetive mainstream cards again. Buy the time that happens ATI will be cleared of old stock and all their DX11 will have improved yields and be ready for a price drop. NVidia is in for a world of financial hurt for some time to come.
 
Snowdog said:
I don't think 50% faster (1.5X) is out of line from the leaked specs. But it is a sensible starting point.

Fermi will have 50% wider memory bus (384 vs 256), and 50% (3Billion + vs 2Billion) additional transistors. So it isn't out of line to think of 50% better performance.

Naturally it won't be exactly 50% (it might be 40%, it might be 55%), and it will depend on which application, some will favor NV, some will favor ATI.

Just because there was a lot of talk about computing usage, don't forget that NVidia is still first and foremost a graphics company. All of those 3 Billion transistor are going to be working on crunching pixels.
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Keep in mind that ATI's cards tend to get better performance per transistor. Case in point: 4870 vs. GTX280. The 280 had about 50% more transistors than 4870, but only about 20% better performance than 4870.

Also, I don't get how you can say "all 3 billion transistors are working on crunching pixels". All the DP floating point stuff is useless for gaming.
 
smartpatrol said:
Keep in mind that ATI's cards tend to get better performance per transistor. Case in point: 4870 vs. GTX280. The 280 had about 50% more transistors than 4870, but only about 20% better performance than 4870.
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But the 280 only had 22% more memory bandwidth. This time they will both be using GDD5. So it should be more like 50% more memory bandwidth this time.

Naturally we will have to see where it eventually falls, but if we want to act without bias (as we really don't know how NVidia might have changed it's architecture). With 50% more of everything this time. I think 50% more performance is an unbiased expectation until we have more concrete information.
 
rincewind said:
1.5x faster is exactly the same as 150% faster. It was probably intended to mean 1.5x the performance, which is not the same thing at all.
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Negative. 150% AS FAST is the same as 1.5x faster. 100% FASTER is 2x the performance. 150% FASTER is 2.5x the performance.
 
RamonGTP said:
Negative. 150% AS FAST is the same as 1.5x faster. 100% FASTER is 2x the performance. 150% FASTER is 2.5x the performance.
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say what?

100% is the same speed

150% faster is the same as 1.5x faster

twice as fast would be 200% or 2x fast
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
say what?

100% is the same speed

150% faster is the same as 1.5x faster

twice as fast would be 200% or 2x fast
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um i'm pretty sure he is correct. for example:

card A runs @ 30fps while card B @ 60fps and card C @ 90fps while card D @ 75fps.

card B is 100% faster or 2x as fast as card A.

card C is 200% faster or 3x as fast as card A.

card D is 150% faster or 2.5x as fast as card A.

if there was a card E @ 45fps, it would be 50% faster or 1.5x as fast as card A.
 
Yes, that tricky difference between "150 percent faster than XXX card" and "150% of the XXX card's performance" . When someone says 100% faster everyone knows that means twice as fast, but as soon as you go over 100% people get confused, either guy the saying it or the ones listening in.
 
jeremyshaw said:
duh? They are gonna be last generation (from nVidia point of view) soon, anyways. (to be replaced with new cards, and yes, I have read the article)

Intel has stopped selling coppermines a while back.

On another note, yeah...


I hope nVidia doesn't try to just cater to the high end market, while their low end cards sucked too much power (compared to their direct competitors, even the mid range 4650 used less power and outdid the 9500gt/ 4550 to the 9400gt. What I didn't like was how the 9500gt and 9400gt have the same power draw listed... despite the halving of cores!

Maybe it was just a typo.
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Who (actually) cares about power use? Ive never met anyone outside the internet that does.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
say what?

100% is the same speed

150% faster is the same as 1.5x faster

twice as fast would be 200% or 2x fast
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I have to disagree with you like the others

the random thing that came to my mind is that in a game (BFME) several multipliers were written in the code for specific characters, like 'x' does 150% more damge to 'y' (x2.5) but in the game code it was 50% more damage, meaning x1.5. This is just math!
 
vengence said:
Your search doesn't work. There are still 5 different versions in stock.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+106792634+1067947241&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=
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Still kind of weird, I've watched as the gtx275 and 285 have more or less disappeared over the last few weeks off newegg, and the only one price competitive with the 4890 is the sparkle, everything else is significantly higher.
 
Brownstone said:
I hope evga and bfg start making ati cards also with this :)
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Doubt it, I believe ATI doesn't want too many partners, because too many weak partners can cause serious issues, if a few start failing in a slow down, compared to fewer, but strong partners.
 
kioras said:
Doubt it, I believe ATI doesn't want too many partners, because too many weak partners can cause serious issues, if a few start failing in a slow down, compared to fewer, but strong partners.
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your probably right but I would love an ATI card by BFG, and they were asked before I believe
 
Don't forget to register your card when you buy it - the lifetime warranty only works for people that register their card - I bet half the owners of XFX cards don't have a llifetime warranty because they didn't register in time.
 
Valset said:
your probably right but I would love an ATI card by BFG, and they were asked before I believe
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MetalX said:
I too would love a BFG 5850 :D
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BFG did ask ATI permission to start selling ATI cards after HD 48xx came out but ATI turned them down :confused:

Supposedly the only Nvidia AIB partner that ATI was trying really hard to get was Evga.

All according to Fud rumours a year ago.

Big mistake IMHO turning down BFG.
 
So how does one buy a new video card these days?

on newegg:

5850 - sold out
5870 - sold out
GTX 275 - One by a "Galaxy" brand (who?), and the next is $299. Other than that, sold out.
GTX 285 - BFG card, $397. Other than that, sold out.

What the hell is going on?

4850/70/90 is available, but with 5850/70 out, I wouldn't consider them.
 
ha yeah I just said screw it and grabbed a 4870 - figure I'll hop on the 5850 band wagon once some models with after market cooling are released


I vowed no more reference cooling ever again after my 4850 :p
 
DeadSkull said:
BFG did ask ATI permission to start selling ATI cards after HD 48xx came out but ATI turned them down :confused:

Supposedly the only Nvidia AIB partner that ATI was trying really hard to get was Evga.

All according to Fud rumours a year ago.

Big mistake IMHO turning down BFG.
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that's odd, I had heard the opposite. (not that your not right, I spend too much time reading trade tabloids). BFG would have given them more standing at the least, look how XFX cards are selling out all over the place
 
MetalX said:
ha yeah I just said screw it and grabbed a 4870 - figure I'll hop on the 5850 band wagon once some models with after market cooling are released


I vowed no more reference cooling ever again after my 4850 :p
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Comparing the reference cooler of the 58xx series to the 4850 is like comparing a Ferrari to a grape. The 58xx coolers are actually quite decent.
 
EVGA is all out of 260, 275, and 285 cards.

No cards for Nvidia until February seems like a disaster for them.
 
steal said:
So how does one buy a new video card these days?

on newegg:

5850 - sold out
5870 - sold out
GTX 275 - One by a "Galaxy" brand (who?), and the next is $299. Other than that, sold out.
GTX 285 - BFG card, $397. Other than that, sold out.

What the hell is going on?

4850/70/90 is available, but with 5850/70 out, I wouldn't consider them.
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actually Galaxy is fairly big in the rest of the world. They are ok. Much better than some of the other brands, I would say they are like Palit or Gainward for quality.
 
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