NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 and RTX 3070 Ti Rumored Specifications Appear

Bigbacon said:
the thing today, if you remove RTX, budget cards can play games exceptionally well, something budget cards sucked at 10+ years ago. even something 'old' like a 1060 can breeze through even newer games at 1080p with medium+ graphic settings.

so long ago you bought the best or your experience blew.
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I love building people strapped for cash system using older parts like ivy bridge and rx480s/580s and 390s. Just put together a system with a $35 ivybridge xeon 1230, cheap ass SSD, and $75 390 and it fucking rips for the $.
 
WorldExclusive said:
The performance differentiation was in ray-tracing which Nvidia sold too early. They wanted to be first and charged us more to do that.
Now games will finally use it more often, we will see good performance gaps between generations.
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Somebody had to do it first, otherwise both would launch with sub standard implementations. nVidia and Microsoft learned a lot from the initial implementation and the version cooked into DX12U is supposedly a completely different animal offering a performance increase on its own from the various algorithm improvements. It’s one of the reasons it was as expensive as it was nVidia had to write in a lot of research costs into the 2000 series because after MS updated the specs with the improvements found from nVidia’s implementation AMD gets a free ride building off their work. So they had to make sure they were getting that investment back.
 
Lakados said:
1600p was a 16:10 resolution I for a while they were also trying to make 1200p a thing but 1080p won out over that too.
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1080p only won out because the manufacturers could get more panels from a sheet with 1080 and sell the monitors for the same price as the 1200p. It was one of the worst injustices done to the consumers in the PC monitor world in my opinion. I went from a 1600x1200 CRT to 1920x1200 LCD years ago for my primary monitor and it wasn't an issue simply because I gained some horizontal resolution without sacrificing any vertical. Unfortunately when that LCD died last year I had to get something cheap which required a 1080p panel. To this day I still miss that extra vertical resolution. If I knew how to fix what went wrong with that LCD and the fix wasn't too expensive and didn't need soldering I'd do it in a heartbeat if only to use it as a secondary monitor.
 
Bigbacon said:
the thing today, if you remove RTX, budget cards can play games exceptionally well, something budget cards sucked at 10+ years ago. even something 'old' like a 1060 can breeze through even newer games at 1080p with medium+ graphic settings.

so long ago you bought the best or your experience blew.
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That's a good point. Years back you'd be lucky to be able to play a AAA game with $250 card. A 7600 GT was barely able to play F.E.A.R -- a game that was released a year after the 7600 GT -- on high settings at 1600x1200. Now, you can easily play most current games on a card from the same segment 1080p high settings with decent FPS.

However, I think the improvement in budget cards is more due to new software/games not pushing the envelope like they used to as opposed to relative rendering improvements.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Very much so; 16:10 is also making a comeback of sorts with Dell's XPS line.
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16:10 is better for production, but 16x9 is better for consumption. I miss my 3:2 from my surface pro but my current workload needs more beef than it could handle.
 
Factum said:
Nice deflection, but my point still stands.
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I don't think it does. I think $600 is a fair price for the 2080Ti after the dust settles from the new launch. You "point" was "no it isn't" with nothing to back that up. New 2080Ti's are going to be expensive because they aren't in production, but if Nvidia (and/or AMD) has a $750-800 card that performs better than a 2080Ti with the next gen, there is not point to spending more than $600 for what will likely be significantly worse RTX performance compared to the $750-800 card. Of course, as even a casual observer can tell, RTX features in general are still somewhat sparse 2 years after launch. So the rasterization performance of a 2080Ti is probably right in line with what you'd expect from a $600 card with occasional RTX use.

Like I said, we'll see if I'm right at this time next year after the entire lineup of next gen cards release. Everyone likes to talk about how these top end video cards are a "luxury good," but then ignore the inevitable, historical, and massive depreciation of "luxury goods."
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Current games? Absolutely.

I just don't have many of those.
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The GTX 970 was a 1920x1080 card even when it was new. I tried gaming on one at 2560x1440 when it was new and even back then I was running into VRAM limitations
 
kirbyrj said:
I don't think it does. I think $600 is a fair price for the 2080Ti after the dust settles from the new launch. You "point" was "no it isn't" with nothing to back that up. New 2080Ti's are going to be expensive because they aren't in production, but if Nvidia (and/or AMD) has a $750-800 card that performs better than a 2080Ti with the next gen, there is not point to spending more than $600 for what will likely be significantly worse RTX performance compared to the $750-800 card. Of course, as even a casual observer can tell, RTX features in general are still somewhat sparse 2 years after launch. So the rasterization performance of a 2080Ti is probably right in line with what you'd expect from a $600 card with occasional RTX use.

Like I said, we'll see if I'm right at this time next year after the entire lineup of next gen cards release. Everyone likes to talk about how these top end video cards are a "luxury good," but then ignore the inevitable, historical, and massive depreciation of "luxury goods."
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Looking at the used prices for the 2080 Ti and the 1080 Ti I am still baffled at what you base the price on...expect for subjective, unrealistic feelings?
 
Factum said:
Looking at the used prices for the 2080 Ti and the 1080 Ti I am still baffled at what you base the price on...expect for subjective, unrealistic feelings?
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I think if there is a LARGE increase in performance from ampere and if prices are slightly lower than turing, $600 for a used 2080ti doesn't sound far fetched.

Part of the reason the 1080ti has retained it's value for so long is that it gives everything in Nvidia's lineup under $700 a run for its money.
 
All I know is I'm hoping that Nvidia doesn't whore out their lineup with some 30 different versions of literally 4 chipsets.

Absolutely ridiculous.
 
Eshelmen said:
All I know is I'm hoping that Nvidia doesn't whore out their lineup with some 30 different versions of literally 4 chipsets.

Absolutely ridiculous.
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Is this your first GPU launch?
If not, you are funny:
sabrewolf732 said:
I think if there is a LARGE increase in performance from ampere and if prices are slightly lower than turing, $600 for a used 2080ti doesn't sound far fetched.

Part of the reason the 1080ti has retained it's value for so long is that it gives everything in Nvidia's lineup under $700 a run for its money.
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If and and if's...shaky foundation ;)
 
Eshelmen said:
All I know is I'm hoping that Nvidia doesn't whore out their lineup with some 30 different versions of literally 4 chipsets.

Absolutely ridiculous.
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Is this your first GPU launch?
If not, you are funny:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeForce4_series

EDIT:
And bad at counting:

TU102-300-K1-A1
TU102-400-A1
TU104-150-KC-A1
TU104-410-A1
TU104-450-A1
TU106-200-KA-A1
TU106-400-A1
TU106-410-A1
TU116-250-KA-A1
TU116-300-A1
TU117
TU117-300-A1
 
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No way a 2080 Ti will sell for $600 any time soon.

The Titans held their value for quite a while, even while cheaper cards with comparable performance were available.
 
cybereality said:
No way a 2080 Ti will sell for $600 any time soon.

The Titans held their value for quite a while, even while cheaper cards with comparable performance were available.
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Titans generally has more VRAM and uses outside of gaming that made them desirable. I also don’t really think the 2080Ti is gonna go super low though.
 
cybereality said:
No way a 2080 Ti will sell for $600 any time soon.
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I think it depends; a strong Ampere release could easily influence the market, but potentially to a point where 2080Ti owners just choose not to upgrade and sell, thus the supply of used cards remains low enough that there just aren't any used 2080Ti cards to buy.

I also think about it this way: I have a 1080Ti. The only reasonable upgrade for me is a 2080Ti, and well, I wouldn't even pay US$600 for a used one.
 
Used prices for the 2080ti will depend entirely on the performance of the 3080ti and it’s price. Get a big performance Jump like from a 980 to a 1080ti and have the price of the 3080ti be in the $800 range and there is no way 2080tis will even sell for 600. Flip that around though with a minor improvement in performance and a 1200 3080ti and you won’t see any deals on the 2080tis.

my guess is that the performance boost will be significant, but nvidia will try to keep that high margin so we well be looking at another gen of 1200 top end cards.
 
kirbyrj said:
If the specs on these cards are even remotely true, the 3070 essentially replaces the 2080 Super at $300 less with (hopefully) better RTX performance. You're looking at 2080 Supers in the used market for $350 which is pretty good bang for the buck at 1440p.



Did they though? A dedicated hardware forum is hardly the place to gauge. Another interesting indicator is how many "Alienware" type systems don't include the 2080Ti instead opting for the 2080/Super. In the non-DIY space, there's a limit in people's mind of how much they will pay for a gaming computer, and the pricing of the 2080Ti priced it out of contention for a vast majority of consumers.

Completely hypothetical numbers forthcoming warning! Do you make more money with A). 1000 units sold at $1200 or B). 3000 units sold at $900. I think Nvidia opted for A with the 2080Ti when B "could" have made them more money.
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This is not how the market works
 
rudy said:
This is not how the market works
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Uhh, isn’t it though?

if the 3070 is somewhat faster than a 2080 and releases at 399, no one will buy a used 2080 for the same price as a new 3070. That would put a used 2080 in the ballpark of $350 or maybe less depending on how many people try to sell old cards right at release.
 
Factum said:
Nice deflection, but my point still stands.
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You didn't make a point though, you made a statement with nothing supporting it, just like he did.
The argument was literally, "I think prices of 2080ti used will come down to $600 after new cards are released.". Your response was basically 'If you think that you are stupid.' I mean, way to really dig in and give him reasons that you disagree. He's suggesting that once new cards come out, 2080tis will be cheaper. I agree with that part. Do I think they'll drop to $600? Its possible depending on what comes out and at what price points. If AMD releases a 2080ti equivalent for $800... That's probably what they will come down to. If Nvidia releases a 3080 for $600 that runs as good as a 2080ti (or close enough) that's probably what they'll come down to. If they reYou being AMDs current card prices into the argument.like they have any bearing when the next gen cards come out. AMD cards will drop in price after next gen too, so if they are still trying to get $500 for a 5700xt when a 6700xt is $500 with raytracing nobody will buy them and prices will drop. So, nice try with pretending to even have made a point and then try to pass him off as deflecting. If you already know the futures for AMD, Nvidia and new and used pricing and performance, please let everyone else know.

Funny thing is, I agree with you that the prices probably won't drop to $600, because I think prices in the 2080ti range are going to remain closed to $800-$1000. But I'm not positive and think he deserves to have his opinion as much as the next guy, because nobody at this point knows.
 
Endgame said:
Uhh, isn’t it though?

if the 3070 is somewhat faster than a 2080 and releases at 399, no one will buy a used 2080 for the same price as a new 3070. That would put a used 2080 in the ballpark of $350 or maybe less depending on how many people try to sell old cards right at release.
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I am talking about this "Completely hypothetical numbers forthcoming warning! Do you make more money with A). 1000 units sold at $1200 or B). 3000 units sold at $900. I think Nvidia opted for A with the 2080Ti when B "could" have made them more money."

There is always a part of the market that will pay a premium for the best no matter how ridiculous a more practical person might think it is. This happens in every market. Just look at cars, you can get the same shit in a Toyota as you can a Lexus, the Lexus just comes with a few minor luxuries. So why does anyone buy a Lexus? Well the answer is because some people are willing to pay thousands more for a bit of extra luxury or performance or features or even just so they can wave their penis in front of other people. The same is true of all markets and especially the GPU market. Billion dollar companies know this and they have products specifically designed to soak as much money out of those people as possible. The big deal is that in the GPU market you actually are getting more performance and even if you made GPUs 5k some people would drop it. Nvidia has been doing this crazy shit for a while now and its working for them. Launch top end cards sell out and maintain prices, why? Because the market is paying for it. The limitations of different models are all artificial why do you think this is? It is because they know that this is how they make the most money. If you give that person who is a premium customer a better product for less then you just loss access to that money thats all. When nVidia launches a GPU they are going to purposely price it at the top of their possible thinking. If they screwed up and sales are low they will drop the price. But guess what, for the most part they are not dropping prices much, that is because the market is soaking it up and paying for it.
 
Endgame said:
Uhh, isn’t it though?

if the 3070 is somewhat faster than a 2080 and releases at 399, no one will buy a used 2080 for the same price as a new 3070. That would put a used 2080 in the ballpark of $350 or maybe less depending on how many people try to sell old cards right at release.
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Yeah, that's literally HOW the market does work. Nobody is going to buy a used 2018 civic with the same features as a 2020 at the same price. It will be cheaper or it won't sell. Now if the features are different or different brands, then it's still a possibility. If the newer version has at least the same features if not more? No.
 
If anything, Nvidia has realized we're all suckers and they'll up the ante to $1,500. JK ;)

Realistically, the new big dawg card won't be $800. Maybe in the $1,000 range, which may drop 2080 Ti value a bit, but I'm still thinking people will by used for $800 or $900.
 
cybereality said:
If anything, Nvidia has realized we're all suckers and they'll up the ante to $1,500. JK ;)

Realistically, the new big dawg card won't be $800. Maybe in the $1,000 range, which may drop 2080 Ti value a bit, but I'm still thinking people will by used for $800 or $900.
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It would be a pleasant surprise at $900-$1000 to be honest and I hope that's the only version and there isn't some special "FE" version that is $1300+. If they can do that and I get $700 for my 2080 TI I'll be very happy.
 
Ready4Dis said:
Yeah, that's literally HOW the market does work. Nobody is going to buy a used 2018 civic with the same features as a 2020 at the same price. It will be cheaper or it won't sell. Now if the features are different or different brands, then it's still a possibility. If the newer version has at least the same features if not more? No.
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For the average gamer sure. But there are valid reasons to buy a slower last generation part at a premium.

E.g. you’ve built an ecosystem around that part at your workplace and want to maintain consistency and not deal with multiple hardware variations. Depending on how little stock is left it will sell out even without a huge discount.
 
Been very happy with my 1080TI from EVGA, except for that mess they call software. I wasn't interested in the 2080 and I'm still not, but I'm eager to see what this generation brings. I'm thinking that Nvidia isn't going to change pricing a lot from what we see now.
NVIDIA TITAN RTX $2,499.00, GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti $1,199.00, GEFORCE RTX 2080 SUPER, $699.00 GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER, $499.00 GEFORCE RTX 2060 SUPER, $399.00 (from Nvidia's page)
I think its going to be more of the same strategy where they price accordingly to performance in the lower end and maintain margins in the high end. I think most of the high end sales come from repeat customers willing to pay for a product they already trust and there isn't as much incentive to lower the price.
IIRC the last time I gave AMD/ATI a chance was the Rage IIc ... if I really wanted to try something on that side now I wouldn't start with a $1000 card.
 
MangoSeed said:
For the average gamer sure. But there are valid reasons to buy a slower last generation part at a premium.

E.g. you’ve built an ecosystem around that part at your workplace and want to maintain consistency and not deal with multiple hardware variations. Depending on how little stock is left it will sell out even without a huge discount.
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Hmmm... We are talking about selling used video cards here. This is how it works for 99% of the use cases. Sure if you may find a company that has a blender render farm using 12 2080tis that want to keep them all the same and is willing to pay a little extra for the consistency.... This one person (few people) is not going to keep prices high. Sure when stock runs out prices on new old stock may go up, but nobody here is dumb enough to buy one, which is the target market were talking about. I can say with pretty high confidence at the end of the year you won't be selling to many used 2080tis for MORE than an equivalent ampere card. Is it possible a couple may? Sure, but it won't be the norm.
 
Just reading the last few posts about markets and what price the 2080Ti will drop to etc. etc.

You shouldn't forget that people do strange things. The second hand 1080Ti market for the last couple of years is an example. People were paying nearly as much for a second hand 1080Ti cards as brand new 2070 Supers. 1080Ti's seem to have reached some god like status in the GPU world and people are still paying over the odds to buy one.

I don't think the 2080Ti has the same love that the 1080Ti has. I can see them dropping pretty quickly in price. How far it drops will depend entirely on the price/performance of Ampere.
 
reaper12 said:
Just reading the last few posts about markets and what price the 2080Ti will drop to etc. etc.

You shouldn't forget that people do strange things. The second hand 1080Ti market for the last couple of years is an example. People were paying nearly as much for a second hand 1080Ti cards as brand new 2070 Supers. 1080Ti's seem to have reached some god like status in the GPU world and people are still paying over the odds to buy one.

I don't think the 2080Ti has the same love that the 1080Ti has. I can see them dropping pretty quickly in price. How far it drops will depend entirely on the price/performance of Ampere.
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I think 1080 Tis selling close to new 2070 Super is since you're getting the same performance, but 3GB more VRAM. Not a huge difference in most cases, but in my experience 8GB doesn't cut it in some games at high settings and textures, especially with mods. It's similar to why used Radeon VIIs are going for crazy prices -- VRAM and compute. Of course 2070 Super has DLSS and RT, but if you're like me, you don't give a rat's ass about those "features" yet.

2080 Tis will certainly drop in price some after Ampere's release, but I'll eat my hat if used cards go for $600 any time this year. It's just not happening, that's outlandish optimism.
 
It seams to me that there are traders that buy up what ever is cheap and put it up for an high price. I was buying a old watch and suddenly all the sellers but one had disappeared. So markets are controlled in that way?

We are talking about speed and price of the RTX 3080, so not the fastest card - right?
So it ought to be +25% so a bit slower than 2080 ti but much cheaper at $750 Maybe not as good at 4k, but much better RT.

There might need to be a convincing number of RT games for it hit $600.
 
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