NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang Dismisses the Radeon VII as "Underwhelming"

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    So far I rate ray tracing as underwhelming, and given the current adoption of the 20xx series it will remain underwhelming for at least a generation.

    I am glad nVidia brought it to the table, but its a joke to stand up and beat your chest claiming it to be 'all that'.
     
  2. Hameeeedo

    Hameeeedo Limp Gawd

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    So it"s bad for NVIDIA to launch 1080Ti performance at 700% with DLSS and RTX, but it's good for AMD to do the same but with 16GB of VRAM? Get off your hypocritical horse.
    DLSS gives you free fps at minimal cost to IQ, it"s of tremendous value. DXR gives you unprecedented IQ enhancements. Never before seen in gaming. Vega VII will be massively limited in the future as it has no DXR whatsoever.
    And you must be on of the geniuses who bought a DX9 card when DX11 was released.

    Please don't stitch together a bunch of mumbo jumpo, this has nothing to do with DX10. DXR adds tangible IQ enhancements. DX10 didn't do squat.
    This has to do with AMD being behind on everything, performance, power consumption, efficiency, features, and even price! To the point they can't support a major branch of DX!
    RTX accelerates ray tracing genious, without it you cant run ray tracing with 10fps in real time!

    This Vega 7 joke has the marks of a trash vega rehash all over again, even jim from AdoredTV thinks it's an embarrassment to AMD.
     
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  3. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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  4. Cr4ckm0nk3y

    Cr4ckm0nk3y Gawd

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    Saying Freesync has never worked is highly underhanded!

    FS issues are just due to the amount of panel manufactures and the large amount of quality between panels. A Samsung FS panel will perform different than a Chinese/monoprice knockoff panel. I have used a cheap and expensive FS panels and noticed immediately issues like ghosting and stuttering. But to say it never worked is horseshit. Higher end FS panels can be great and worth the cost.

    I still think Gsync performs better but it comes at a premium that most mainstream don't want to pay for.

    That is hilarious Jimmy is distancing himself from the Radeon 7 after his videos, backed by "leaks," said it was going to be so super awesome you don't even know!!!

    Adored/Jim is a trash panda / gossip vlogger and nothing more. When he is right he behaves like Moses and when wrong he immediately does damage control.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  5. Skiddywinks

    Skiddywinks n00b

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    Because the MSRP may be $100 less, but until they are for sale we don't know for sure how the two cards will stack up against each other. And you say "less", but even AMD's own numbers basically have it being a wash, on average. Either way, "less" is only slightly less.

    Depending on what you want, that $100 for RT and tensor stuff may well be more than worth the price difference. Not for me, personally, but it's not a hard viewpoint to see. I was hoping for something a bit more of a concrete counter punch from AMD.
     
  6. Bystanding

    Bystanding n00b

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    Jenson just doesn’t just trash AMD, also Intel with their Graphics Division. Jenson has issues and decisions to deal with and it speaks volumes in his comments....

    - Jenson is disappointed that NO other Graphics Developer is supporting Ray-Tracing, therefore no demand for Game Developers to push for it.

    - Since there is a great number of Monitors supporting Free-Syn and Jenson is disappointed that he is now has supporting it too.

    -Jenson doesn’t like the ideal that 4 major Corporations in Gaming are using AMD Graphics, Microsoft with XBOX-One, Sony with PS4, Intel with integrated Graphics and AMD is self with APUs & GPUs.

    This reminds me of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray wars and the one that won was one with the most support from the Studios and Sony had a huge influence to getting the Studios on board. I don’t think Ray-Tracing is dead, it's just nVidia is on it’s own to getting Game Developers on on-board and financing these companies with a falling stock.

    It is disappointing to see/hear Jenson (a CEO) speak this way to any competitor.
     
  7. Droc

    Droc 2[H]4U

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    He should just take from Apple and sue EVERYONE.

    I dont care about RTX. I just want the most powerful card possible. When I goto the butcher, I don't ask for him to cut me the 2nd or 3rd best.
     
  8. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    This is a big problem for nVidia, the only thing that has saved them from going the way of HD-DVD, Beta, and mini-disc players is that the PC/GPU ecosystem is a relatively open standard within the APIs. It doesn't matter if you have the best product when the marketplace is using a different ecosystem.
     
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  9. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Dr Su, is that you?
     
  10. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    The AMD shill brigade had been given free reign on these forums ever since Hardocp fell out of favor with nVidia. Just gotta sort through the BS.
     
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  11. Cr4ckm0nk3y

    Cr4ckm0nk3y Gawd

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    I think JH likes the fact no other GPU Devs are taking advantage of MS's DirectX Raytracing. Can't forget NV helped MS make DXR so they had a jump. It allows NV to use their RTX brand as another reason to buy their cards. Look at the press after AMD announced the VII. Almost every article had lines about the VII not having DXR. Then add JH's almost sociopath like comments about the VII. Its all about marketing.

    AMD probably had a good reason to skip DXR on the Vega 20.

    DXR is capable "running" on current hardware according to the DirectX team. AMD could enable it on existing hardware just like NV, Sony, and MS could if they wanted. It's up to the individual hardware vendors to create their own backends for executing DXR commands. The problem comes with the performance hit the computations need. Consoles don't have close to the power, they are pretty much tapped trying to get 4k at 60fps, and NV wants you to buy new cards.

    Thus newer gens will get DXR support since their computing powering will be greater or the GPU's will have specific cores set aside.

    No DXR on the VII is most likely due to needing the extra performance to match the 2080 series and not wanting an "aesthetics" DX extension insanely slowing down the card and giving bad reviews. NV, even with cores specifically added for DXR/AI extensions, takes a massive hit and led to bad press. Su is smart to not waste time on the Vega series trying to perfect their backend and the possible performance hit.

    Game Devs are moving to DXR since its release in October 2018. DXR is still super new but is now being used in Unity, Unreal, and two EA engines (SEED/FB). Don't know how many devs are willing to delay year(s) worth of dev on almost finished games to add DXR at the last minute. It will be added to games in early/mid-development. Look at the crap press EA/Dice got for trying to add it at the last minute.

    DXR will be slow for a while. It is also why I am personally staying away from the RTX series and keeping my 1080. No reason to move yet but a lot of people have.
     
  12. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    eh, nvidia needs competition, a $1k card is just ridiculous. bitcoin made this shit all possible, too bad it has gone down in flames. unfortunately the same thing is going to burn AMD
     
  13. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Dude... Sony didn't have the most support. Toshiba and Sony we're neck and neck. Toshiba bailed on HD-DvD when Sony literally bought Universal Studio's away from HD-DVD. At that time it effectively crippled Toshibas ability to remain competitive.

    Sony paid billions for that support. Nvidia just threatens people in the industry with non-competive tactics and now apparently insults as well.

    For the record, I'm no AMD shill. I have a Ryzen 1700, but my other three systems Intel processors. I own only Nvidia branded video cards... Because they're the fastest. I don't care who makes the fastest cards, if it's AMD I buy AMD if it's Nvidia I buy theirs if it is Intel in the future I will buy their cards.

    It's unfortunate that the head of Nvidia has to resort to unprofessional commentary in public but I don't think in any way that Nvidia is in trouble. Jensen is only pissed because he doesnt own the world at this point.

    I hope AMD or Intel or some no name brand comes out with something that gives him a run for his money and I think AMD may be on the right track, time will tell. Until then, I'm going to sit pretty with my Nvidia cards. ..... No matter how much the 2080Ti I have pisses me off ... Lol

    Edit.... Jim, sorry, I quoted the wrong person... Shit. ;)
     
  14. TheHig

    TheHig Limp Gawd

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    AMD had to get a GPU out before Navi. It’s too far off yet.

    The prices are what really are underwhelming here. And Red or Green camp we all should be put off on that.

    Nvidia pushed the mid/ high end up too far with RTX new hotness or not but — hey why not since AMD has no answer.

    Now that AMD has at least a stop gap card that is fast as the 2080 finally.... The price is still a bit high. IMO

    I get it has prosumer appeal as it’s just an Instinct card after all. I get that 16gb of HBM is expensive. I get that Nvidia sunk a bunch of R&D into RTX. So what? -500 bucks should get us more than a 1080/ti level performance from 2 years ago.

    599 would have been strong for Vega ii current new pricing considered. Less a real disruption.
     
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  15. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Can't say I disagree too much, at least from a consumer perspective. AMD's offering doesn't offer significantly more performance for the dollar than Nvidia's offering. Its good that they are competing at the higher end at all though. Hopefully they can put out enough volume and the street prices end up being notably cheaper than Nvidia so we can start making GPU prices reasonable. Otherwise, meh.

    The next Ryzen CPUs sound promising though. I will be upgrading my 2700X to one of those.
     
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  16. jeffj7

    jeffj7 [H]Lite

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    seems for the last year nvidia is going out of its way to punch all the wrong buttons.
     
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  17. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    "no AI" lol that's like saying it's not cloud connected and that's a deal breaker. Why do we need AI in our desktop gaming GPUs again?
     
  18. TMCM

    TMCM [H]ard|Gawd

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    no, when Direct X 11 came out I think I was still rockin' my Radeon 8500LE that I got back in 02-03... so how's that PhysX support treating ya?
     
  19. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    I kinda feel bad for AMD because the R7 would've been a huge win for people with FreeSync monitors because they had no high end alternative but then NVIDIA killed that by throwing support behind A-Sync.
     
  20. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

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    My thoughts exactly - I want the competition to drive down prices and instead AMD me too'd. There are of course many valid reasons to do this as a business, but it doesn't make GPU pricing sting any less for consumers.

    To add to that, there have been a handful of sales for the 2080 recently around the $600 price point. My inclination says the majority of consumers would probably buy into DLSS and ray tracing over the 16GB of memory on the VII if the price points are similar. It isn't even a discussion if the VII turns out to be hard to get at MSRP and the 2080 is available and on sale.
     
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  21. readeh

    readeh Limp Gawd

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    I'm talking about streaming your games.. Not freesync.
     
  22. Stimpy88

    Stimpy88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's funny... I call the RTX range "underwhelming" too, but I also add the word "overpriced" for free!
     
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  23. Zareek

    Zareek Limp Gawd

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    I'm feeling a little confused, why is Jensen beating his chest about a technology that has only been used to make shiny floors in places where the floors could not possibly be shiny? This drives me nuts! I want more realism in graphics not shiny for the sake of being shiny!

    Consider the setting, war torn Europe, yet someone took hours to buff the floor to a mirror finish? The cars and trolleys look like they where just detailed? Where the hell is the dust and the grime? Moronic!!! A total waste of resources. Show me something that uses RTX to increase realism and then I'll be impressed otherwise, you can keep it. Oh yeah and I'm not paying $800+ dollars either. These prices are enough to make me think that I might need to find a cheaper hobby. Maybe rebuilding classic cars or perhaps making gold and diamond jewelry!
     
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  24. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Man Jen knows how to trigger the trolls!

    [always helps when you're right ;)]
     
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  25. TAP

    TAP Limp Gawd

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    Alot of Dbag CEOs that investors love. The reason NVDA stock is down is the crypto bubble broke. Stock prices have nothing to do with the sentiments of guys like us on message boards. It's all about the revenues, the profits, and the future outlook.
     
  26. TordanGow

    TordanGow Gawd

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    I really hate this cringe worthy alpha-male marketing BS (in general, not just here). I never understood the point of making unsubstantiated claims via puerile boasts. It completely saps your credibility and makes me want to ignore you.

    Edit: above directed at Jensen, not the quoted person who I agree with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  27. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    Jensen Huang needs to dye his hair orange and run for office.
     
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  28. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    Can't tell if you are addressing me as the poster, or Jensen as the marketer?
     
  29. Eymar

    Eymar Limp Gawd

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    Lol yeah, I read it as the former and thinking to myself "harsh". Hopefully it's the latter.
     
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  30. Cr4ckm0nk3y

    Cr4ckm0nk3y Gawd

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    I think you should show Nvidia and their "Dbag" you really DGAF and are better than them by just giving your 1080ti away! Show them their products are worthless to you!

    I would be happy to take it off your hands for free and make sure it never sees the light of day again!
     
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  31. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    Damn it, beat me too it. I don't like nVidia's BS, but they make the best, and the best is what I crave.
     
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  32. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    This puts a different spin on his waffling about freesync not working, from that article:

    So rather than 12 out of 400 working, his criteria for a fail seems to be it has to enable the tech automatically? o_O
     
  33. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    I agree with the comments on professionalism.
    He is not speaking with the 'bros' in private.
     
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  34. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Locker room talk...the journalists got off light. :oops::eek:
     
  35. HockeyJon

    HockeyJon [H]ard|Gawd

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    WTF are you going on about? Where did I say any of that? Did you actually read my post, or did you view get blocked by your ultra-huge Nvidia fanboy boner?
     
  36. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Freesync has yet to be anything other than a shit-show. A few monitors offer near G-Sync levels of implementation and most simply do not. None match G-Sync.

    He may be technically incorrect, but he's not wrong about the superiority of his company's efforts in the field.
     
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  37. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    So, you are trolling, or are a paid shill for Nvidia, or who knows what. Got a grudge? Is what you're saying the script that Nvidia or some 3rd-party middle-man PR company have given you to try to mislead people with?

    To be clear, the information that we have shows that Radeon 7 is ABOVE the performance of an RTX 2080.

    And a 1070 Ti isn't what comes below the performance of an RTX 2080, so it's absolutely ridiculous to even be mentioning it at all - and you've been corrected about this multiple times.


    Here's a ranking of comparable performances to make this easy to follow:

    (least performance) 1070 ti < 1080 < 1080 Ti < 2080 < Radeon 7 (most performance)


    The only consumer Nvidia GPU that offers more performance than Radeon 7 is the RTX 2080 Ti.


    The only benchmark I'm aware of is this:

    amd-radeonvii-3-jpg.jpg


    Troll elsewhere, please.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  38. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's upto the tech press to put his claims to the test. I very much doubt that it was 12 out of 400 that passed, sounds like inflated BS to me.
     
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  39. Californian

    Californian n00b

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    Tensor cores are in Volta. Turing seems to literally be Volta with GDDR6 and “Raytracing cores” which are clearly not nearly as important as Nvidia stated. So far, at least.

    Huh? I can find plenty of 2080 cards with decent coolers for $700-725 on pcpartpicked. Maybe I am wrong, but 700 minus 700 typically does not equal 100.

    Left of it is they require a VRR range ratio of “2.4 or greater”. So the max/min variable range has to be at least 2.4.

    That rules out a lot of monitors, I’m willing to bet removing that ruling, or even reducing it to 2.0, would result i a much higher pass rate. Have a window of 50-100Hz? Fails the qualification.

    How many pass will at the end of the day depend the ratio of cheap to higher end monitors. Cheaper monitors with Freesync will have issues, because they’re cheap monitors.

    I expect expensive monitors have near 100% pass rate outside of the 2.4 ratio.
     
  40. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If your standard for passing is G-Sync, then none would pass. I think Nvidia is being generous.