they dont have too, but if they want to bypass dx11 they can optimize for the mantle api if they choose too and write a driver layer for it.
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Nvidia blocks AMD from optimizing drivers for GameWorks titles.
- Thread starter cageymaru
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they dont have too, but if they want to bypass dx11 they can optimize for the mantle api if they choose too and write a driver layer for it.
Again, TBH, I'm not sure where you're getting this from, as it pertains to this discussion; unless you're potentially upset at people criticizing Nvidia for potentially unscrupulous tactics.
Hmmm......Why not just come out and say AMD sucks, only poor people buy their products and Nvidia is better in everything?
That's the gist I'm getting.
jbltecnicspro
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This article's so full of shit it's not even funny. We all know why developers jump on Nvidia, and that's hookers. Nvidia buys them hookers and gets them laid. No other explanation.
A bucket of Popeye's Chicken probably suffices for most.
dumb move by Nvidia...AMD is going to have most AAA titles going forward because of their console domination...if Mantle is even half as good as AMD's hype suggests then Nvidia is going to be playing behind the 8 ball for the next 5 years...unless they create their own proprietary API
It was nice when there were 5 players in the GPU market when this battle first begun. Were down to 2 of them now. Think of it as ford vs Chevy. Or color choices for clothes - white/black. Having limited choices sucks for us so you best hope AMD and Nvidia stay competitive with each other.
Digital Viper-X-
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This is bad for gamers period.
Xoleras when has AMD had any deal that would lock out nv from optimizing a game after release?
Xoleras when has AMD had any deal that would lock out nv from optimizing a game after release?
KazeoHin
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I have no problem with one developer allowing access to pre-release game code to a GPU vendor based on sponsorship and whatnot: but the competing vendor has always been able to optimize their drivers and software after the game launch; but this is a new game being played: essentially telling AMD that they can NEVER see the game's code before or after release.. This is a new kind of evil.
AMD is more than welcome to put in the $$$ and create optimized libraries and bring them to game developers. If developers don't want to use them, then too bad. Not sure why NVIDIA gets the blame here.
wonderfield
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It certainly complicates matters.
KazeoHin
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Nvidia is a company who is an order of magnitude larger than AMD with more revenue, recources, and market share. One would find these sort of practices as ANTI-competitive, which is counter-intuitive to the idea of capitalism, which emphasises the importance of competitive business practices that directly benefit the consumer. Anti-competitive practices (which are practices that attempt to eliminate the options for other entities to compete, to the detriment of the consumer) coming from the largest company in an industry is often considered anti-consumer. These sort of things can and have been found to be unethical.
In other words: why does Nvidia feel this is necessary? Aren't their products so superior and better-er that they don't need to resort to 'scummy' business?
Or maybe...
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Ohh, my bleeding heart.
NVIDIA is nowhere near an order of magnitude larger than AMD.
AMD went off and worked with DICE to make a tech that they're going to directly benefit from... all for the purpose of creating an advantage over their competition. And even more, they're leveraging their console monopoly to make that advantage more difficult to counter. Anti-competitive?
When NVIDIA can make an x86 chip, then we can talk about fair competition in this industry. In the meantime, any work they do with their partners to make their products better do, in fact, benefit the consumer... and, are not, unethical. And they have no obligation to invest resources to help make their competitors' products better... especially their competitors who are lazy and don't take the initiative and risks to innovate and remain relevant.
It is no more unethical than you performing well at your job so that your employer doesn't dump you and replace you with some poor unemployed schlub. How do you feel knowing that you're preventing somebody else from having your job because you work too well?
KazeoHin
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Better check your yearly revenues and net-worth charts last I checked Nvidia was nearly ten-times the size of AMD.
And they made an open standard that anyone can license and use: GPU vendors included.
#1 Nvidia manufactures ARM processors and is one of the largest in the mobile CPU industry. The next-gem consoles could have used ARM. They didn't. Not AMDs fault: AMD did not put in-place measures to prevent Nvidia from competing in this sense, unlike....
#2 this is an example of Nvidia doing extra work to ensure AMD (the smaller company) cannot compete in this respect. Nvidia has put in-place measures that prevents AMD from competing. This is not 'a superior product' it is a change in pre-existing licensing that now prevents the smaller competitor from optimizing their own products.
It's more like knowingly taking measures so coworkers cannot perform their jobs so you look better by comparison. And in this case, it's more like being a senior employee making sure lower-paid employees cannot fulfill their tasks so that management keeps you in your position.
All the shader code needs to be run on AMDs hardware in the end. But somehow you're telling me they lack the ability/knowledge/technology to dump the shaders that the hardware ends up running, then optimize them and replace them at runtime?
Both companies do this today. How do you think they see such big performance increases driver to driver? Having the stuff in the library doesn't block AMD from optimizing.
NVIDIA released FXAA open source and it ended up getting modified by AMD then they pimped it as their own when it suited their needs or was made to run faster on AMD. Yet without NV it wouldn't have existed in the first place. I recognize that not everyone is an FXAA fan but that's beside the point.
My point is good luck getting companies to invest in developing technologies when they can't be assured they will uniquely benefit them. These companies aren't charities.
Brackle
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They could optimized Cuda cores to run on mantle. Sure might not run as good as AMD cores, but Nvidia has the choice.
With gameworks. AMD has no choice to optimize the game. Nvidia wont allow them.
Doesn't apply here, since the tech in these libraries is inherently something the devs didn't want to or couldn't write themselves and wouldn't have existed without the library. It is adding features to the game. AMD has employed similar tactics by preventing NV access to titles in advance of launch. Even though after launch they can go and optimize things, they get caught with their pants down and start from behind. This was done by AMD to ensure that NVIDIA could not deliver the optimized performance to NVIDIA users at launch of several key titles.
You have no idea how software development works. There are different levels of abstraction with shaders. You don't need to optimize at the hlsl shader level. AMDs hardware ultimately still runs the shader code somehow yes? So how can the GPU do that but the humans who make the GPU and driver that handle said shaders are unable to?
They can still see the shaders, optimize them, and replace them at the driver level, which is something both companies have done for years.
Brackle
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And you do? Mantle is available to everyone. Nvidia has the option to use Mantle if they like.
Amd has no option to optimize any game that is gameworks. AMD does not block Nvidia from optimized Gaming evolved games.
Yes, I do. I work in the game development industry. You have zero knowledge to make a claim like that on AMDs business practices without seeing things personally.
Brackle
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LOL you are a known fanboy for Nvidia on this forum, and now you are claiming to be a game developer?
Man you made my night thats for sure. Game Developer LOL /endthread
Michaelius
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It's soo hardware agnostic it doesn't even work on older AMD architecture
Sad to see enthusiasts buying into propaganda PR bullshit like that.
Even if AMD allowed Nvidia to incorporate necessary GCN elements into design Maxwell is already close to finished so Volta is earliest they could use it.
In Yoda voice:
Begun API war has
Think what you want but it won't change facts. And I said I am in the industry. Please keep this from being personal and keep on the thread topic. I just don't understand why you take words from either side as golden and pure. Why default to assuming one is a victim and one is the offender?
Seems many people are not staying impartial or judging on the data instead of love/emotion for one company.
Brackle
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I don't think anyone is a victim or offender. I just go by the facts.
AMD Doesn't block out Nvidia from optimizing Mantle or Gaming Evolved titles. It is open to all.
Nvidia blocks AMD from Gameworks optimizations, and blocks Physx from working with AMD Video cards (which do work).
Those are facts. You can choose who is the victim and the offender.
I'm telling you your facts are wrong. You have zero information about Mantles true openness, you have zero information about if AMD allows builds of titles they have deals with to go to NVIDIA before release, you have zero information on whether implemented effects have actually been pulled out at AMDs request due to a Gaming Evolved deal. Not to mention this is not all black and white.
Is Mantle "open" if it can only be implemented by NVIDIA by using an extra abstraction layer that inherently puts them at a performance disadvantage? Is it "open" if AMD slacks on supporting NVIDIA when they are trying to implement it? Or if they intentionally delay NVIDIAs implementation so they can be the first and the best? Is it "open" if it's a square peg and NVIDIAs architecture is a round hole, performance-wise? You are conflating open with fair, and there are a million and one ways to have open things not be fair, or even be shady.
Is AMD "not blocking" NVIDIAs optimization efforts if they prevent a developer from giving game builds with effects AMD is implementing in the game? Sure NVIDIA can optimize and fix bugs once the game ships but then they've already paid the price at launch.
These are all questions you need to ask yourself. There are no hard and fast rules, and there are exceptions made by both companies.
If you choose not to hear that it's okay with me but just realize you are digging your heels in without knowing anything... not a wise position. Read xoleras' post earlier. He summarized it well.
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Brackle
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For all I know man you are xoleras, and just posting on a different account. You both talk exactly the same way, with the game Agenda.
Bash AMD in anyway, Promote Nvidia in anyway. Spins the facts to make them not look like facts, and try to put down anyone who has a different opinion then you.
I'm not bashing anyone, I am balancing your feverish exalting of AMDs ethics... Something you have zero data on.
I'll be the first to say both companies engage in this stuff. I just get annoyed seeing people who have no clue stating that AMD is made up of a bunch of saints who will mow your lawn, change your baby's diaper, and buy you a new house.
If you believe "company x never does y", you have been played like a fiddle sir.
Hah. So true. Playing the pity card for AMD while pretending they haven't done their share of scumbag bullshit. It's pretty funny and ironic. AMD GE titles to this day still prevent NV from collaboration with developers during development.
LOL. Whatever you say. This is easily checked and i'd welcome the few that are able to, by all means check it. Yet here you have AMD marketers with newly registered accounts spamming forums across the entire internet with Mantle bullshit. It's obvious because that's all AMD does. Manipulate the internet with viral marketers. Admittedly it isn't bad here, while it's horrible at AMD zone, I mean anandtech. I mean, heck. There were two AMD viral marketers that were banned from anandtech after they were caught red handed. One was manipulating false benchmarks and spreading them throughout forums at AT. He was caught and subsequently banned. And he admitted to being a viral marketer for AMD. I wonder , hmm.
I don't have the URL on hand but I remember seeing the AMD top 100 "influencer" website. These scumbags actually have a rating system for their hired shills in terms of influence. The guy that was banned from anandtech was in the top 5. LOL. So that brings us back to these newly registered posters with 100% of their posts talking up Mantle. Talking about oh how you can pay your new 290 off in a month through mining (which is bullshit, it takes a year even if current difficulty remains the same). With duplicate accounts. And to top if off, now they're playing the pity card telling us how nvidia is oh-so-evil. They're out to get AMD, AMD is the victim. And we're supposed to be dense enough to buy their bullshit.
Anyway, I guess you have to do that when your software team is grossly negligent resulting in software bugs that have been around for two years (see CF-EF still having microstutter for two years on 79xx/280x and older cards) and haven't added features since MLAA in 2010. When your newest driver for your cards breaks HdMi audio. Again. Breaks recover from sleep on 79xx and prior cards. Again. Results in MLAA not working in DX10/11. Yawn. AMD being AMD. Broken software, status quo. Oh but hey. There's mining, right? Let's just ignore all of that and throw out the pity card for AMD. While they have and continue to do exclusionary bullshit with AMD GE titles. We'll just ignore that and pretend AMD are saints. Nvidia is the evil empire holding AMD back. That's why AMD has a 35% dGPU market share compared to nvidia's 65%. Poor AMD. Surely it isn't AMD's own fault thanks to their grossly negligent software team over the past two years. Nah. It's nvidia's fault. We'll also pretend that nvidia goes around to developers holding a gun to their collective heads and forces them to use nvidia features or else. Alrighty then. The bottom line is AMD are saints, nvidia is evil, that's the theme of this thread.
Perhaps that sounds harsh. I'm sure it does sound harsh - but believe it or not, i'm not closed to buying AMD cards. While I prefer NV for gaming right now, I used 7970s for a long time and liked those cards. 6970, 5870, etc. While I don't like reference 290 (for noise/heat reasons) I find many of the aftermarket 290 cards to be highly impressive, cost notwithstanding (due to mining inflation). I just wish AMD would sell their cards on merits and merits alone. Instead of trying to shovel victimized bullshit through internet forums with sensationalist stories. Let's not pretend AMD are saints here. They have and will continue to feed that shit to the masses while their real actions are far different.
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cageymaru
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Sorry, still haven't swayed my opinion of Nvidia. Here is the basic argument that is prevalent in the thread.
PC Gaming should be an open platform for software developers and hardware developers to be able to collaborate to push the industry forward.
So we have an open platform. That means you can develop what you want, and how you want it. It's your technology to do with as you see fit. You can sell it to your competitors or you can keep it for yourself and make it exclusive. Free markets. Capitalism.
This is what Nvidia is really good at. Making new stuff and marketing it as an exclusive. Didn't have issues with this stance until I bought an Nvidia GTX 570 graphics card to use as a PhysX card for my HD 7950. It was working all peachy until an update came along that erased my damn AMD drivers off my system. As in Nvidia did it on purpose and posted on their forums that they did it because they didn't want to be liable for PhysX running on an system with an AMD main card. So they limited my choice artificially by hosing my Operating System. That in turn pissed me off to no end because I figured that actually buying the fucking card and thus paying them would be enough for them. But they want more! More! More!
Sorry, but I don't like their new designs. I think they suck ass. In my opinion the last real card they released was the GTX 480 from a brute horsepower aspect. Everything else has been a neutered cheap version. Sure you'll are going to tell me how they removed features and CUDA cores to save electricity and lower the heat. I'll just say that to me they just lowered the processing power of the things and cheapened it. It's probably why the new cards suck so bad at Bitcoin mining. They are wimpy low power versions of the original superior 480 design. They should have taken the time to perfect that design rather than try to sell me 1/2 a card. My opinion and everyone has one.
So Nvidia doesn't want me to play around with PhysX. That's cool. It's their tech and they can shove it up their ass for all I care after what they did to me by hosing my OS. So now they are locking their games so that my frame rate will be artificially lowered by them to promote their video cards. Seems like since they couldn't fool me into buying their low budget trash by destroying my OS, they are going to get me to switch by lowering my cards ability to operate in Nvidia sponsored titles. So once again being an intelligent dude, I see through this and boycott their games. Someone more radical would yell they are going to torrent them, but I'm above doing that. I don't want their garbage on my system. Fuck Batman. Fuck Ass Creed 50. Fuck Nvidia. Hose my damn OS to teach me a lesson. Fuck you in the ass. Capitalism at it's finest. I keep my money in my pocket by boycotting your shitty proprietary crap that you're trying to market on an open platform.
Now before everyone goes off the deep end calling me a marketing shill, AMD fanboy, or jackass with an agenda, realize that I've purchased over the years:
Nvidia 4200 Ti
3DFX VooDoo 5500
Nvidia 9500 GTS
Nvidia 9500GT
Nvidia 9800 GT
Nvidia 9800 GTX (yes, I was sipping the kool aid back then and upgraded as soon as I had the money)
Nvidia GTX 460 SLI
AMD's first DX 10 card; can't remember the number.
AMD 5850
AMD 7950 CrossfireX
As you can see I've owned a lot more Nvidia cards than AMD cards. I loved their cards until they neutered them. I don't agree with their current designs. Since I don't like them I refuse to buy them. Also I despise their cavalier attitude about an open platform. They seem to want to close it so I fight back by boycotting their developers that drink the kool aid.
Personally I think that Nvidia wants to force AMD to release more of their GCN design by locking them out of the folders that they can manipulate to optimize their drivers for better performance. Just leave the consumer out of your petty fights Nvidia. And learn to write a proper wrapper.
PC Gaming should be an open platform for software developers and hardware developers to be able to collaborate to push the industry forward.
So we have an open platform. That means you can develop what you want, and how you want it. It's your technology to do with as you see fit. You can sell it to your competitors or you can keep it for yourself and make it exclusive. Free markets. Capitalism.
This is what Nvidia is really good at. Making new stuff and marketing it as an exclusive. Didn't have issues with this stance until I bought an Nvidia GTX 570 graphics card to use as a PhysX card for my HD 7950. It was working all peachy until an update came along that erased my damn AMD drivers off my system. As in Nvidia did it on purpose and posted on their forums that they did it because they didn't want to be liable for PhysX running on an system with an AMD main card. So they limited my choice artificially by hosing my Operating System. That in turn pissed me off to no end because I figured that actually buying the fucking card and thus paying them would be enough for them. But they want more! More! More!
Sorry, but I don't like their new designs. I think they suck ass. In my opinion the last real card they released was the GTX 480 from a brute horsepower aspect. Everything else has been a neutered cheap version. Sure you'll are going to tell me how they removed features and CUDA cores to save electricity and lower the heat. I'll just say that to me they just lowered the processing power of the things and cheapened it. It's probably why the new cards suck so bad at Bitcoin mining. They are wimpy low power versions of the original superior 480 design. They should have taken the time to perfect that design rather than try to sell me 1/2 a card. My opinion and everyone has one.
So Nvidia doesn't want me to play around with PhysX. That's cool. It's their tech and they can shove it up their ass for all I care after what they did to me by hosing my OS. So now they are locking their games so that my frame rate will be artificially lowered by them to promote their video cards. Seems like since they couldn't fool me into buying their low budget trash by destroying my OS, they are going to get me to switch by lowering my cards ability to operate in Nvidia sponsored titles. So once again being an intelligent dude, I see through this and boycott their games. Someone more radical would yell they are going to torrent them, but I'm above doing that. I don't want their garbage on my system. Fuck Batman. Fuck Ass Creed 50. Fuck Nvidia. Hose my damn OS to teach me a lesson. Fuck you in the ass. Capitalism at it's finest. I keep my money in my pocket by boycotting your shitty proprietary crap that you're trying to market on an open platform.
Now before everyone goes off the deep end calling me a marketing shill, AMD fanboy, or jackass with an agenda, realize that I've purchased over the years:
Nvidia 4200 Ti
3DFX VooDoo 5500
Nvidia 9500 GTS
Nvidia 9500GT
Nvidia 9800 GT
Nvidia 9800 GTX (yes, I was sipping the kool aid back then and upgraded as soon as I had the money)
Nvidia GTX 460 SLI
AMD's first DX 10 card; can't remember the number.
AMD 5850
AMD 7950 CrossfireX
As you can see I've owned a lot more Nvidia cards than AMD cards. I loved their cards until they neutered them. I don't agree with their current designs. Since I don't like them I refuse to buy them. Also I despise their cavalier attitude about an open platform. They seem to want to close it so I fight back by boycotting their developers that drink the kool aid.
Personally I think that Nvidia wants to force AMD to release more of their GCN design by locking them out of the folders that they can manipulate to optimize their drivers for better performance. Just leave the consumer out of your petty fights Nvidia. And learn to write a proper wrapper.
Oh here we go. Someone else posted this on the AMD forum.
AMD shill ranking board:
http://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1
I wonder how many of these shills post here. The guy at rank 4? He was banned from Anandtech for hiding his affiliation and posting false benchmarks of a 290X. A 290X that he obtained for free from AMD. He was caught red-handed and subsequently admitted to being a viral marketer. Anyway, these shills......they're probably posting about Mantle, about how AMD is the victim, Nvidia and intel are out to get them, how a 290 will pay itself off in a week through mining. blah blah blah. LOL.
Like I said. While I prefer nvidia these days for PC gaming due to their feature set and better software (my opinion), I have bought and will continue to buy AMD GPUs. That said. They need to sell their cards on their own merits - the 290 aftermarket cards are very nice. I will say that despite my grievances with AMD's software/drivers, both the 290 and 290X are great performers. The aftermarket 290 cards fix the reference issues with heat and noise, therefore they're viable products if the price is right. Therefore they don't need to shill forums 24/7 and they don't need to shovel this victimized sensationalist bullshit down our throats. Cuz AMD aren't saints. Their words and actions are far different. And their marketing is reprehensible despite their GPUs performing well and where they need to be. Fortunately, it isn't very bad here in terms of newly registered shill spambot accounts. IT is very bad at AMD zone. I mean anandtech.
AMD shill ranking board:
http://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1
I wonder how many of these shills post here. The guy at rank 4? He was banned from Anandtech for hiding his affiliation and posting false benchmarks of a 290X. A 290X that he obtained for free from AMD. He was caught red-handed and subsequently admitted to being a viral marketer. Anyway, these shills......they're probably posting about Mantle, about how AMD is the victim, Nvidia and intel are out to get them, how a 290 will pay itself off in a week through mining. blah blah blah. LOL.
Like I said. While I prefer nvidia these days for PC gaming due to their feature set and better software (my opinion), I have bought and will continue to buy AMD GPUs. That said. They need to sell their cards on their own merits - the 290 aftermarket cards are very nice. I will say that despite my grievances with AMD's software/drivers, both the 290 and 290X are great performers. The aftermarket 290 cards fix the reference issues with heat and noise, therefore they're viable products if the price is right. Therefore they don't need to shill forums 24/7 and they don't need to shovel this victimized sensationalist bullshit down our throats. Cuz AMD aren't saints. Their words and actions are far different. And their marketing is reprehensible despite their GPUs performing well and where they need to be. Fortunately, it isn't very bad here in terms of newly registered shill spambot accounts. IT is very bad at AMD zone. I mean anandtech.
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D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
Damn some people (*cough* xoleras *cough*) get so damn angry in these discussions. That childish anger just shows your fanboyism, it's really sad because it ruins the idea of a decent discussion. This thread is just shit flinging from both sides, with some people throwing tantrums. This whole section has turned to horseshit again, it seems the fanboys from both sides have made a huge comeback and are back in style
This feels like the Steam fanboy logic too. Hurr durr, I only like Steam, we should allow them a monopoly because steam is my preference! Competition is bad I guess, let's get a monopoly so we can pay $1000+ for performance from 5 years ago instead. Good logic there guys, keep fighting the good fight
This feels like the Steam fanboy logic too. Hurr durr, I only like Steam, we should allow them a monopoly because steam is my preference! Competition is bad I guess, let's get a monopoly so we can pay $1000+ for performance from 5 years ago instead. Good logic there guys, keep fighting the good fight
After a GE game is released nvidia can look at the code and optimize it for their hardware right? That is exactly what nvidia and gameworks isn't allowing amd to do.
Mantle, if nvidia doesn't want to support it, they don't have to. All mantle games have dx11 paths.
You are a known fanboy for AMD. You are throwing a lot of stones in your glass house.
This is no different than the very proprietary Mantle. The only reason it upsets you (and a few of the other AMD advocates) is that NVIDIA is doing it.
Yes it is different, regardless of your wishes otherwise. Mantle is an API that is seeking for wider adoption. By wider adoption, AMD wants groups like Nvidia and Intel to adopt it. These are just closed libraries with Nvidia's intellectual property stickers on it that prevent anyone from messing with them.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
silly fools, one that blocks DX optimizations is the guilty one.
mantle is AMD's API, you cant get mad on that, each company has rights to make their own API.
difference here is that DX is one and for all, but Nvidia is paying company to block DX optimizations for AMD, and that is flat out wrong.
Nvidia fans, stop acting dumb.
There is a big difference between paying for more support for optimizations like we had and paying to block optimizations permanently.
mantle is AMD's API, you cant get mad on that, each company has rights to make their own API.
difference here is that DX is one and for all, but Nvidia is paying company to block DX optimizations for AMD, and that is flat out wrong.
Nvidia fans, stop acting dumb.
There is a big difference between paying for more support for optimizations like we had and paying to block optimizations permanently.
Brackle
Old Timer
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LOL I don't even own an AMD video card, and im an AMD fanboy really? LOL
First 1 guy is a Game Developer, now a guy calls people AMD fanboys, and they dont even own a single damn AMD product.
best thread ever
It all sounds so fair and open and inclusive, but why the hell would either camp license a technology when a) it's explicitly designed to take advantage of their competitor's unique hardware architecture, and b) that same competitor holds the keys to the standard? The idea that the gains from Mantle will be so massive that no one will have any choice but to adopt it as a new standard is wishful thinking. Direct3D was developed exactly to eliminate these sorts of vendor-specific APIs (and claiming Mantle is "open" misses the point that other vendors would have to implement the same hardware architecture as AMD in order to gain as much from it, which they can't even if they wanted to), we're only in this situation because Microsoft can't be arsed with DirectX any more and is more interested turning Windows into a glorified app store.
You can't have a fair, open API which is also as efficient as possible on a particular hardware. Mantle isn't revolutionary, it's a regression to the time of vendor-specifc APIs. Of course it achieves performance gains, the trade-off is vendor-specificity. It's very easy for AMD to claim anyone can optimise for it when they have zero responsibility for having to crowbar a GCN-centric API into non-GCN architectures.
In the magical dream world in my head, Khronos would step in and aggressively develop a new version of OpenGL which targeted whatever it is that developers like about Mantle, without it being architecture-dependent. Then everyone could happily jump on that bus and we gamers could get on with the business of gaming.
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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The thing is you spin denial you claim things but can not back them up. If you can mention 5 instances of where AMD shut out Nvidia name them.
Most people can name 5 ways Nvidia are shutting AMD out.
You claim to work in the software industry as what a tools programmer or catering ?
You also start this bit with that Nvidia has to get builds before release in reality Mantle is not even out yet.
How can you take a stand with denial as your friend and not prove anything?
In all seriousness how can you expect that Mantle which is created as a low level API to function on Nvidia hardware even before it's working on AMD hardware. What open means in Mantle is prolly a little different then what you are able to understand.
And in reality Nvidia is just not interested in Mantle. and why you can read it in the articles on the 1st page of this topic.
I think some folks care entirely to much about this topic.
Its well known that Most of Nvidia's new Tech is for them only. Amd's new tech is more or less open to the community.
Physics, G-sync, Adaptive V-sync, Cuda, Gameworks are all Nvidia features which do not apply to AMD Radeons. Name the features AMD is with holding from Nvidia? morphological anti-aliasing is the only one I can think of.
Does it matter? To me it doesn't I honestly won't buy an Nvidia graphics card, right now. I rather have a GPU which can mine and produce $$. If mining busts and I had to choose again, well It wouldn't matter to me, I'd pick the best card for the money. Just right now AMD hardware has more value to me.
Its well known that Most of Nvidia's new Tech is for them only. Amd's new tech is more or less open to the community.
Physics, G-sync, Adaptive V-sync, Cuda, Gameworks are all Nvidia features which do not apply to AMD Radeons. Name the features AMD is with holding from Nvidia? morphological anti-aliasing is the only one I can think of.
Does it matter? To me it doesn't I honestly won't buy an Nvidia graphics card, right now. I rather have a GPU which can mine and produce $$. If mining busts and I had to choose again, well It wouldn't matter to me, I'd pick the best card for the money. Just right now AMD hardware has more value to me.
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