No excitement about intel's latest offering??

TheHig

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If I were building a new current gen fire and forget system and HAD to have Intel then sure I guess. The 10600 looks decent for gaming.

Right now though there is better value in used Intel or new AMD. When Intel finally gets a node shrink done I think they will be exciting again. This is stop gap stuff and completely skip worthy.
 

E4g1e

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Let me spell it for you...I said until they can hit 5Ghz based on TODAYS performance where their current speed cannot match what Intel is doing for the apps I need. If tomorrow they can achieve more performance than Intel for those programs, with less speed needed, then that is fine as well. Got it now????
No Premiere next release will indeed use GPU better but the current utilization is not nearly as fast as what iGPU can do. This is why it easily beats what AMD . Gamers nexus used to test with iGPU and showed the big differences but even that channel decided to skip that these days..guess it pays off to pander to loud amd fans. Anyways, get your FACTS together buddy and don't let fanboysim cloud your judgement.
You cannot fairly compare two different CPUs of two different architectures solely on clock speed alone. In fact, I was an Intel user for the longest time before I went AMD with my current system. And during the quad-core days, I had my i7-4790K at 4.7 GHz and it still didn't beat my later i7-7700 (non-K) at 4.0 GHz.
 

Ready4Dis

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Let me spell it for you...I said until they can hit 5Ghz based on TODAYS performance where their current speed cannot match what Intel is doing for the apps I need. If tomorrow they can achieve more performance than Intel for those programs, with less speed needed, then that is fine as well. Got it now????
No Premiere next release will indeed use GPU better but the current utilization is not nearly as fast as what iGPU can do. This is why it easily beats what AMD . Gamers nexus used to test with iGPU and showed the big differences but even that channel decided to skip that these days..guess it pays off to pander to loud amd fans. Anyways, get your FACTS together buddy and don't let fanboysim cloud your judgement.
Lol, love how anytime someone says anything jump on the old fanboi train. I even agree with you that it wouldn't make any sense to switch to AMD for your uses, not sure how that makes me a fan boy because you are using Intel in a situation that it does better and I agreed you are better off with them? My point was simply AMD isn't as bad in these work loads as they used to be (they used to get killed easily, but made up a lot of ground).. so, yeah if that makes me a fan boy because I pointed to benchmarks showing they aren't as far back as you suggested and that completely hurt your feellings this badly, then you are the one who can't pull their head out, not me.

Edit: btw on getting facts straight: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dp...ps-adds-gpu-accelerated-encoding-and-more.amp

GPU support was added when I made that post, so maybe we you need to reassess the 'facts'.
 

E4g1e

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What's more, Premiere cannot use both the iGPU and a discrete GPU for hardware acceleration at the same time. It's either/or. And if a discrete GPU is detected as a valid hardware accelerated encoding device, it (NVENC or VCE/VCN) will automatically supercede QuickSync no matter what. This will almost completely erase Intel's advantage there.
 

Nightfire

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Most of the focus is on the 10900k, but it is rather impressive what they have achieved with their i5 lineup in regards to perf/$ and perf/watt:

 

Snowdog

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What's more, Premiere cannot use both the iGPU and a discrete GPU for hardware acceleration at the same time. It's either/or. And if a discrete GPU is detected as a valid hardware accelerated encoding device, it (NVENC or VCE/VCN) will automatically supercede QuickSync no matter what. This will almost completely erase Intel's advantage there.
Though it also nullifies AMD core count advantage if you are using a GPU to actually encode the Video, since video encoding is one of the few true high core occupancy use cases, that many people do.

With Video encoding moving to GPU, 8+ cores are relegated more into the realm of winning synthetic benchmark contests for most people.
 

the_real_7

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I got lucky and got a binned 9900ks which idles 30c and games 50c with a 2080ti in the loop. But the 10900k is out of the question no latency gains no game gains and barely scratching multicore perfomance from amd. I have a 3900x also and on that I have to say intel is hurting at the moment. This chip is a huge engineering mistake. efficiency has been pretty much completely lost at this point, except for a nice latency advantage intel is out the game on all it platforms , they should of kept the z390 socket and improved binning like amd is doing with the new 3900xt now. A respun 8700k and 9900k with improved thermals just for gaming would of put them strong in one market segment that is popular right now. If you bought a 10900k and you are a enthusiast's full respect to your buy and enjoy and push those clocks. But for me 9900ks is my stopping point of support for intel
 

E4g1e

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Though it also nullifies AMD core count advantage if you are using a GPU to actually encode the Video, since video encoding is one of the few true high core occupancy use cases, that many people do.

With Video encoding moving to GPU, 8+ cores are relegated more into the realm of winning synthetic benchmark contests for most people.
Actually, a lot of things still rely heavily on the number of CPU cores, up to a point. For example, the GPU-accelerated encoding only applies to exports to H.264 and HEVC (H.265). All other encoding uses solely the CPU. What you stated does not mean that a dual-core or a quad-core CPU can run Premiere Pro anywhere near acceptably, regardless of the clock speed.
 

Keljian

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the_real_7 you can cut idle down to 2-5W, and gaming power down to 15-35W as I said in the QuickCPU thread. It is all about task energy.

Regarding efficiency, as I have said multiple times recently, intel’s chips can idle efficiently and can return to idle very quickly (as quick as AMD if not quicker). Most don’t. This is because of bios settings and power plan settings.

This matters because if you take a given workload, be it gaming or rendering or anything in between, there will be pauses in between spikes of load where the processor isn’t working hard. If ithe chip can clock down and cut the voltage even for a few micro seconds during that time it reduces the total task energy used, in some cases significantly.

Efficiency is not just how fast a cpu can get a task done and what the peak power is during that, but also how much time during that task it can “microsleep”.
(and how much power it consumes while sleeping)


People seem to be missing this point.

It is the area under the power graph for a given task, not the peak.

Until someone writes a basic tool to measure and record cpu wattage over time down to the millisecond, and then calculate the area under the graph, reports of x cpu being more efficient than y cpu are moot.

I have half a mind to write this myself.

AMD has an app for that: https://developer.amd.com/amd-uprof/

Intel does too ;)
https://software.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/tools/vtune-profiler/choose-download.html

both of these are heavy apps though, need something simpler
 
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nealx01

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im all about overclocking so im wicked excited. i have a pretty nifty small collection of great bdie kits and some nice watercooling so this is right up my alley. ryzen is good and all that but for fun overclocking intel is were its at. i love delidding i love liquid metal. i love trying to get 10k multi core memory score on geekbench3. and i love binning my bdie (and rev E now too!) kits. im excited. really excited.
i totally understand why not alot of other folks would be tho. it is what it is.
 

shaolin95

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im all about overclocking so im wicked excited. i have a pretty nifty small collection of great bdie kits and some nice watercooling so this is right up my alley. ryzen is good and all that but for fun overclocking intel is were its at. i love delidding i love liquid metal. i love trying to get 10k multi core memory score on geekbench3. and i love binning my bdie (and rev E now too!) kits. im excited. really excited.
i totally understand why not alot of other folks would be tho. it is what it is.
Well even with my 9900k @ 5Ghz...the facf that I will get 2 more cores, likely 200Mhz more, and that next gen will fit the z490 mobo...oh and the COVID crap keeping me home, resisting the upgrade bug is getting hard lol
 

nealx01

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Well even with my 9900k @ 5Ghz...the facf that I will get 2 more cores, likely 200Mhz more, and that next gen will fit the z490 mobo...oh and the COVID crap keeping me home, resisting the upgrade bug is getting hard lol
the government THROWING money at me helps also. i can get a new 10900k and great kit of ram a week the way things are right now and be fine still 🤣🤣😁👍
 

noko

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I can find Z490 motherboards but virtually zero processors, unless a 6 core lock processor was what I was looking for. Intel just obsolete their whole 9th generation and motherboards yet kept the pricing which would drive sells even more to the 10th generation making it miserable to find good deals. Not even as if the 10th generation is that enticing to begin with. I could see the frustration from the motherboard makers who adequately supplied the market with motherboards but without large volumes of CPUs to stick in them they will sit and drop in price. AMD Zen 2 high end was out initially but the lower end, 8 core and below was always purchasable and available and the higher end was usually no more than 2 weeks out if one could wait. Intel???

I was thinking of redoing my Intel rig to something more modern, VR focus, having the fastest fps type processor is somewhat wise even though the 6700K so far has been keeping up.
 

nealx01

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Now if only I could find it in stock aside from those douchebag eBay sellers 😤
i went with OCUK and got it shipped to the states, came a few min utes ago. and was CHEAPER than the US retailers even after shipping. im deff buying from them again. i think they still have stock too FYI
 

noko

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B&H Photo has 10700K and 10900K at the moment:

https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/processors/intel/

Kinda tempting but the I5 10600K, when ever available seems like a good sweet spot for current games and then upgrading to Intel's next gen with pcie4. Now that AMD is doing a quick XT update with their processors soon, I might as well wait.

Did not last long, out
 
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shaolin95

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B&H Photo has 10700K and 10900K at the moment:

https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/processors/intel/

Kinda tempting but the I5 10600K, when ever available seems like a good sweet spot for current games and then upgrading to Intel's next gen with pcie4. Now that AMD is doing a quick XT update with their processors soon, I might as well wait.

Did not last long, out
Nope but like you said.. May as well wait to see what the 3900xt can do
 

Ready4Dis

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Nope but like you said.. May as well wait to see what the 3900xt can do
I'm surprised they are doing a refresh this close to zen3... They must be confident that even a higher clocked zen2 allows enough performance gap for zen3 to be worth upgrading to.
 

noko

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I'm surprised they are doing a refresh this close to zen3... They must be confident that even a higher clocked zen2 allows enough performance gap for zen3 to be worth upgrading to.
Can be important to be on top, showing investors/owners you can immediately respond to competition when needed. Plus I would think motherboard makers, vendors who still have a huge inventory of older chipset AM4 motherboards don't mind this since those motherboards will still be relevant and sellable at a higher price. This would include OEMs, mom and pop stores (if they still exist) supporting a community. Building a very fast if not fastest CPU machine with discounted motherboards etc. gives a business an advantage on profit which then adds to more businesses advertising while promoting AMD. If AMD has great yields now with much better running chips, this is really almost a freebee for a good number of positives. The one negative is how it will affect the sells of Zen 3 or Ryzen 4 next year. The XT versions could be a very short run, sold out fast around when Zen 3 is available.
 

nealx01

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well considering i cannot find a 10900k in stock anywhere, Intel is doing its part to help AMD so I don't think AMD needs to even bother with a refresh lol.
yep that supply shortage for intel is nowhere near over. i know were talking about the 10900k but i was looking at the bot site for instock CPUs and the 10980xe hasnt been instock at newegg since xmas2019, and amazon since january 27th or something. B&H has never had them. and the couple times they have been instock at amazon and newegg they were gone in seconds and clearly only had a few. silicon lotto has had a total of one delivery also. also around Xmas.
i dont think it will be THAT hard to find a 10900k but it probably wont be easy for a while either.
Mindfactory, the german retailer that posts CPU sales weekly, had 10 comet lake chips total launch week. pretty pathetic
 

Nightfire

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"Eat" is relative and $100 is $100... I can't really talk to the motherboard situation, but a cursory look seemed to me like they are basically the same basic design just with Intel chipsets (for example, Asus X570-P vs. Z490-P looked awfully similar and other than a few different ICCs likely are).

I feel no need to upgrade personally to anything this generation (after all it's just another Skylake iteration and I already have one of those) nor do I feel the need to upgrade any Ryzen 3XXX system I have as the gaming is "good enough" for the price. I'm holding out for the Zen 3 vs. Rocket Lake battle later this year (or early next year) which should be much more interesting.

Edit: I just got an e-mail from newegg with $165 Ryzen 3600s. Couple that with a $65 BNIB B450 and you're at $230. The 10400 (non-k) with the same 6C/12T is $195. Boost speed is 4.3Ghz. Lowest priced Z490 board is $150 on NE. So at a bare minimum you're at $230 vs $345 for what would be very similar performance. To get an unlocked i5, you're still looking at $230+ just for the CPU. If Intel allows OCing on B460 boards, and the "locked" CPUs can MCE to max turbo on all core, then the price/performance might be closer. And I might be tempted to drop $20-30 extra for an Intel chipset as I've always had good luck with them. I'm not tempted to drop $100 extra at this time.
I think Gamers Nexus and *HUB gave the 10400 and unfair assesment:

We still not sure what the 10400 can do on B460, especially with ASRock and BFB. Also, the igpu has alot of value for some, and if not, prices should always be compared using the 10400F.
 
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Snowdog

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While this is only a change in boost duration, Intel still might put a stop to it.

I also read/watched claim that since top end locked parts get 2933 MHz memory, that all locked parts might get it. That could split the difference nicely.

With boost extension and 2933 MHz memory on lower end boards, low end locked parts would be more compelling. But I wouldn't be surprised if Intel put a stop to it, and made their parts less competitive.
 

kirbyrj

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With boost extension and 2933 MHz memory on lower end boards, low end locked parts would be more compelling. But I wouldn't be surprised if Intel put a stop to it, and made their parts less competitive.
Those are three big "ifs". I don't think HUB and GN were unfair to the 10400 as it stands now. It's really going to come down on what Intel decides to allow with their B460 boards. Ideally, I'd like MCE, boost extension, and memory overclocking to match the B450 boards.
 

Nightfire

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A stock 9600k, but who pays the upcharge for a K CPU and doesn't overclock?
The point was you now get similiar or better performance with a cheaper cpu and motherboard. I was not bashing the 9600k, just saying Intel is offering real value in the midrange now.
 

Halon

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So... I've got a question born of ignorance. Nothing malicious here, I promise.

What happens if you run the chip within its nominal TDP? Could I just throw a be quiet! Dark Rock 4 on one of these without risking a magic smoke containment failure? How close would the clocks get to the (avalanche of jargon) maximums?
 
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Keljian

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So... I've got a question born of ignorance. Nothing malicious here, I promise.

What happens if you run the chip within its nominal TDP? Could I just throw a be quiet! Dark Rock 4 on one of these without risking a magic smoke containment failure? How close would the clocks get to the (avalanche of jargon) maximums?
You would get your boost speed until the temperature hit maximums or you hit the tau time (nominally 56 seconds if to intel specs), then the clock would be reduced to the base clock or just over where it would hit its TDP.
 

noko

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Intel's K CPUs has way more options for OCing than AMD, if one really loves to tinker/explore and push, Intel is definitely there. While for me, the gaming advantage is really no advantage but for some it is a clear advantage and worth while. Now if Intel is coming out with their next CPU late to early next year, which will work with PCIe 4 with hopefully most if not all Z490 motherboards, I think I will wait a little bit longer. Only CPU interesting right now for me is Threadripper, wonder if they will have a XT version?
 

XoR_

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Intel's K CPUs has way more options for OCing than AMD, if one really loves to tinker/explore and push, Intel is definitely there. While for me, the gaming advantage is really no advantage but for some it is a clear advantage and worth while. Now if Intel is coming out with their next CPU late to early next year, which will work with PCIe 4 with hopefully most if not all Z490 motherboards, I think I will wait a little bit longer. Only CPU interesting right now for me is Threadripper, wonder if they will have a XT version?
My experience with 9900K was that I have these options: get custom water block, remove IHS and use liquid metal, do die sanding... or run stock like lame person because most that OC does is make my cooling sound like rocket taking off 🙃
 

IdiotInCharge

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My experience with 9900K was that I have these options: get custom water block, remove IHS and use liquid metal, do die sanding... or run stock like lame person because most that OC does is make my cooling sound like rocket taking off 🙃
280MM rad, sandwiched with four 140mm fans... no issues?
 

Keljian

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My experience with 9900K was that I have these options: get custom water block, remove IHS and use liquid metal, do die sanding... or run stock like lame person because most that OC does is make my cooling sound like rocket taking off 🙃
sorry to hear you had issues, I undervolted (-75mV offset) and cranked it up. 5.0 all cores works albeit at 176W. I run it at 4.9 all cores for noise reasons.
 

SixFootDuo

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Anyone that supports AMD to me is un-American.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-tr...class-chips-china-got-them-anyway-11561646798

From the mid of Feb to the start of April I had a 3950x system. I eventually got it running okay but at the start of the build. I had to return not one, but 2 sets of memory due to the memory just not working correctly. It was then that I discovered that it is suggested you buy "Ryzen Approved" DDR4 ... at first, I couldn't believe my ears so I do a web search and ... holy shit ... it's true. 2nd, at load, I was hitting 88 - 92 - 93c temps which made me uncomfortable. 3rd, I spent weeks and weeks trying to overclock my 3950x ... no dice. I gave up eventually.

I am glad AMD has awoken Intel. We will eventually see Intel bring to market some incredible performance to the desktop.

I personally have a lot of problems with AMD. To me, they have always been budget oriented. That is embedded in my mind and very unlikely to change. But I did help my ex-GF get a 1700 based 1st Gen Ryzen. I don't have a problem with people using the product, just for me personally, I could never do it.

But, I am happy that people have a 2nd choice in AMD. For me, I will always been an Intel customer.

Once I put my new system together, I will have a 99% percentile gaming PC. 4400mhz, 10900K and a 2080 Ti on a push pull 360 rad
 

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